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Ahoy! I just bought 2 mac minis, now using VEP Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 19th March 2014
  #31
Just can't sort a thing about latency while recording in pt11:

Can someone tell me if the "low latency input buffer" mode is available in pt11 or is it only an HD thing?

Because it would solve my main problem of overdubbing without latency in an advanced mix, making a pt11 upgrade and buying one mac mini (or a 4cores nMP see below)+VEPro enough for me. Would just have to desactivate plugins on the master while overdubbing but no much more?
It seems with this mode VEP would run at a cool latency for its needs, as all the others plugins in pt, while being able to record at the lowest samples setting. Sorry for being late on this, just begin to check pt11.

I just found a thing about the nMP: It's seems possible to upgrade the CPU chip easily, so maybe a 4 cores now is a good idea to boost our system now, while waiting for the price for a 12 cores to go down to a reasonnable cost...?
What you think about this?
Old 19th March 2014
  #32
Ok just found out low latency input buffer mode is available for pt11, correct me if I'm wrong.
So one problem gone for me, sorry for the out topic.

About mac mini farm, i don't know if the CPU speed is that interesting compared to an nMP 4 cores.
Because if as I understood well, a track with its plugins goes on one core, and in the case of a master track or an heavy loaded buss ( for ex with reverb/eq/comp/sidecomp/console buss sim), a slow core is surely going to get some issues.

What are you tought about this?

If all that reasonning is right, a setup with the nMP quad 3,7Ghz handling Master track and heavy loaded buss tracks while my old MP would handle VSTI and their mixing plugins following would be the most efficient setup.
Old 19th March 2014
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by findingtheSound View Post
Ok just found out low latency input buffer mode is available for pt11, correct me if I'm wrong.
So one problem gone for me, sorry for the out topic.

About mac mini farm, i don't know if the CPU speed is that interesting compared to an nMP 4 cores.
Because if as I understood well, a track with its plugins goes on one core, and in the case of a master track or an heavy loaded buss ( for ex with reverb/eq/comp/sidecomp/console buss sim), a slow core is surely going to get some issues.

What are you tought about this?

If all that reasonning is right, a setup with the nMP quad 3,7Ghz handling Master track and heavy loaded buss tracks while my old MP would handle VSTI and their mixing plugins following would be the most efficient setup.
Well I don't think anyone would argue that a 4 core nMP would outperform a 4 core 2.6ghz i7 mini.

BUT... if you consider that you could buy two, even three mac minis for the price of a nMP, that's when you have to balance efficiency with simplicity and decide what you would prefer.

More cores is always better for handling plugins and proccessing, from what I understand it is more beneficial to have (4) 2ghz cores as opposed to (2) 4 ghz cores.

Again though I can't confirm any of this until I get some time to really test out the system. It is certainly a bit of an experiment, but I think worth the risk. I'll know pretty quickly if I made the right choice, at which point I can stick with the minis or return them for something else. Stay tuned!
Old 19th March 2014
  #34
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You'd think they would want Logic to be able to do this to get their customers to buy multiple Apple devices, or am I missing something?
Old 19th March 2014
  #35
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I love the title of this thread

I keep seeing it there, and I'm thinking **** I better think about this before they sell out! I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Old 19th March 2014
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
You'd think they would want Logic to be able to do this to get their customers to buy multiple Apple devices, or am I missing something?
Logic actually used to have this capability called "Logic Node" but Node was a 32-bit only utility so they discontinued it with the move to 64-bit platform
Old 19th March 2014
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
More cores is always better for handling plugins and proccessing, from what I understand it is more beneficial to have (4) 2ghz cores as opposed to (2) 4 ghz cores. Again though I can't confirm any of this until I get some time to really test out the system.
Slower cores, 1Gbs ethernet-networked by Vienna Ensemble Pro (VEP) 5 on multiple slaves, crushes fewer cores with higher clock rates on a single machine. I stopped testing my VEP master-slave system after 20 instances of Omnisphere, at 128K buffer, didn't even make a dent on the slave.
Old 19th March 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Slower cores, 1Gbs ethernet-networked by Vienna Ensemble Pro (VEP) 5 on multiple slaves, crushes fewer cores with higher clock rates on a single machine. I stopped testing my VEP master-slave system after 20 instances of Omnisphere, at 128K buffer, didn't even make a dent on the slave.
Yea that falls in line with the info that I've been reading.. I'm starting to get really excited to try this out. I worked til 2 am building out my studio last night after work in hopes of getting it prepared for this weekend when the mac minis come.

20 instances of omnisphere? Oh god I think i might need to change my pants.. that sounds... ORGASMIC
Old 20th March 2014
  #39
Myrok, im following this tread because im totally stoked by the potential of this. im thinking that, for me, there may be some value in slaving a PC to my mac so that id have access to PC only softwares without having to do a whole lot of juggling. i really miss FL; havent played around in it since version 5 i think . . . but im curious: when you run two systems with VEP, does it basically kill all other processes within the slave unit that are not relevant to the application for which its being used? i guess im just a little confused by the holistic connectivity of this system and the depth of communication it allows between the compenents. i tried looking at some tuts to help clarify, but theyve really only muddied the waters ha
Old 20th March 2014
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guy View Post
when you run two systems with VEP, does it basically kill all other processes within the slave unit that are not relevant to the application for which its being used? i guess im just a little confused by the holistic connectivity of this system and the depth of communication it allows between the compenents. i tried looking at some tuts to help clarify, but theyve really only muddied the waters ha
It is confusing. But what do you mean "kill all other processes"? If you want VE Pro to automatically shut down Halo when you start it up, that doesn't happen.

But, seriously, the slave is just a PC (or Mac) and it runs whatever you have running on it. The cool thing is, though, is that VE Pro saves everything (on the host machine). As long as the slave is running and your network is operational, when you reopen a session on the master, everything comes back just the way it was.
Old 20th March 2014
  #41
i think i got ya. i wasnt sure if there was some deeper integration going on. i guess i imagined the host using the slave as its own extra CPU, which is wrong? so . . . the slave operates as an independent mac/pc and VEP just allows you to route them into one place right? i suppose *what* is routed depends on the software youre using, ie midi from, say, FL into logic? eh, maybe im overthinking it lol
Old 20th March 2014
  #42
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No, you're not really over thinking it, but the master/slave relationship runs over a network that VE (and you) set up. You have a server (if I'm remembering correctly) running on the master machine. You have to make the slave visible (button click). Then VE Pro runs on the slave (it can run on the master as well, but that defeats the idea of offloading processing). Then you have specific ways of routing audio and MIDI between the two machines.

It's really helpful to have a remote desktop app (I just use the Microsoft one for Mac) so that you don't have to run back and forth if the slave's in another room.

It's really pretty simple once it's set up. However, getting it set up is a learning curve. Prepare for it. It's a really powerful system, with a huge number of options (especially if you're using the VI library). And PC/Mac networking is still a pain, but VE takes most of that away.

If you spend some time on the VSL website, and read the manual, it's pretty good at explaining how this all works. There is a certain amount of stuff that doesn't make sense until you actually do it, though (at least it didn't for me).
Old 20th March 2014
  #43
perfect, thanks for helping me parse all this out
Old 20th March 2014
  #44
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No problem. It took me a while. The forums on the VSL site are good as well.
Old 20th March 2014
  #45
VEP uses its own plugins, inserted in the master host (Cubase/Logic/PT etc) as a plugin or instrument, which coordinate the MIDI data to be sent to the slave, where VEP hosts plugins and instruments. The audio is routed back to that same VEP plugin in the master over network. So the plugin is processed on the slave in VEP as a slave host, the VEP plugin inserted in your sequencer just is a router for MIDI and audio streams. You could run a very weak master system just as a MIDI sequencer and let VEP do the mixing on the slave, as it has full mixing capabilities.
Old 20th March 2014
  #46
this product seems pretty unique. are there any other softwares that do something similar? i had never even heard of VEP before this thread, im just trying to wrap around all the possibilities. man, its a good time to be musician!
Old 20th March 2014
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
VEP uses its own plugins, inserted in the master host (Cubase/Logic/PT etc) as a plugin or instrument, which coordinate the MIDI data to be sent to the slave, where VEP hosts plugins and instruments. The audio is routed back to that same VEP plugin in the master over network. So the plugin is processed on the slave in VEP as a slave host, the VEP plugin inserted in your sequencer just is a router for MIDI and audio streams. You could run a very weak master system just as a MIDI sequencer and let VEP do the mixing on the slave, as it has full mixing capabilities.
Just a detail, but you can also use the multiple audio ins and outs to bring audio back on different DAW channels. So, you'd only need to run one instance of something you were using to produce several sounds, and they could all come back separately to your DAW.

So, you can mix in your DAW, or in VE Pro. Or submix in VE Pro. It's very flexible.
Old 20th March 2014
  #48
A last thing about VEP; do you need extra screen/mouse/keyboard to run the slave computer? Or can you just power it up then control it via the master computer screen?
Old 20th March 2014
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post
Just a detail, but you can also use the multiple audio ins and outs to bring audio back on different DAW channels. So, you'd only need to run one instance of something you were using to produce several sounds, and they could all come back separately to your DAW.

So, you can mix in your DAW, or in VE Pro. Or submix in VE Pro. It's very flexible.
I know. I was trying to keep the explanation simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by findingtheSound View Post
A last thing about VEP; do you need extra screen/mouse/keyboard to run the slave computer? Or can you just power it up them control it via the master computer screen?
No, you need keyboard/mouse/screen. I use a KVM for that, starts at 50€ (Aten).
Old 20th March 2014
  #50
Tui
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On Mac, you should be able to use Screen Sharing, in order to view the UIs of both computers on one screen, or set of screens.
Old 20th March 2014
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
What mod changed the thread title? I even censored it...
Ahoy! I have just only recently purchased one and another Mac mini!
Old 20th March 2014
  #52
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If the moderator changed it to "I just bought 2 mac minis, now using VEP" it would help other people who are looking at using VEP. moderator where art thou?
Old 20th March 2014
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
Total cost out the door $2200.

8 cores of 2.6ghz i7 total between the two.
256 gb SSD in each

Will upgrade to 16gb of ram in each through crucial

Already ordered VEP5

I'm going to network these with my 2011 17" Macbook pro, which has a 2.3 ghz quad core i7 and 16gb of ram, also a 256gb SSD.

So that give me -

12 Cores (4) 2.3ghz (8) 2.6ghz i7 , 48 gb of ram, 256 gb SSD

The way i figure, if a new mac mini is released in a couple months I can just add another one. At this price point for a 12-core farm I'm really excited.

Just thought I'd share. I'll keep yall updated on how it works out.
Have the Mini per above but with 16GB of RAM. Just the ticket.

Cdlt
Old 20th March 2014
  #54
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Another advantage of using a VEP master-slave system is that your samples can already be loaded in the slave, ie you don't have to wait for a sample instrument to load. It's not a big deal for one or two instruments but if you want a sample orchestra, or multiple instruments, always ready to play it's a big time saver.
Old 20th March 2014
  #55
Jus
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Could I do the following with VEP and Logic:
- load drum vst (say, BFD) on mac 2
- use it as multi out
- *not* use any fx plugins on those tracks (to avoid the latency mentioned above)
- route the tracks (kick, snare etc.) separately to mac 1
- add fx on each of those tracks in mac 1

That would solve a lot of my problems.
Old 20th March 2014
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jus View Post
Could I do the following with VEP and Logic:
- load drum vst (say, BFD) on mac 2
- use it as multi out
- *not* use any fx plugins on those tracks (to avoid the latency mentioned above)
- route the tracks (kick, snare etc.) separately to mac 1
- add fx on each of those tracks in mac 1

That would solve a lot of my problems.
Yes absolutely, VEP is a multi-timbral host that you can route inside logic and then apply your mixing plugins from there as you normally would.
Old 21st March 2014
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Another advantage of using a VEP master-slave system is that your samples can already be loaded in the slave, ie you don't have to wait for a sample instrument to load. It's not a big deal for one or two instruments but if you want a sample orchestra, or multiple instruments, always ready to play it's a big time saver.
But you can do that with VEP on a master as well. Just autoload the metaframe file on system boot and off you go.
But that is the good thing about VEP, it is a solution for slaving, hosting, saving CPU cycles and run old plugins on new systems or very old slave systems. IMO it could win a TEC award every year for just being a briliant piece of software.
Old 21st March 2014
  #58
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Well they were waiting for me when I made it home..


Along with the Acer 1080p projector I got off newegg for $650 and the corsair memory upgrades...

Unfortunately I'm gonna have to wait another 3 or 4 days to even begin setting it up, I still have a lot left to do for treatment and furniture. Then a few days of install and organization, then I can probably sit down at actually form an opinion when I can relax and make music. The time draws nigh!
Old 21st March 2014
  #59
^ rad, cant wait to hear your official report
Old 21st March 2014
  #60
Obviously the GAS caused heavy breathing, resulting in bad images... heh
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