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3 Best/Worst Plugin Companies To You - 2014 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1st June 2017
  #391
Lives for gear
 
Peter - IK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamm7215 View Post
Fair enough, the extras in that link were not available when I purchased the iRig2 late 2016. Fwiw, the nanopad2 and MPK mini2 are also around that price range (MPK Mini2 around 100euros, nanopad2 49euros).
They should have been unlockable from release. You should have access to that gear now, as long as you register your iRig 2 serial number in the app.

I'm not going to dig on other companies since they are definitely companies we respect 100%, but I have to say that 100 euro is more than twice iRig 2 and I notice that a lot of the software seems to be mostly limited versions and somewhat comparable in general).

However, the more important part is to help you get that gear that should unlock for you. If you have trouble getting that please do let me know.
Old 1st June 2017
  #392
Lives for gear
 
mamm7215's Avatar
Appreciate the input, I'll have a look later when home.
Old 3rd June 2017
  #393
Here for the gear
 

Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter - IK View Post
Many users have hundreds of gigabytes of IK libraries - if not more - and in some cases choose to utilize this as their backup service as it ends up being cheaper for such massive storage and more readily accessible (from the same IK User Area you download application updates) than offsite backups like iCloud, Amazon Drive, etc. If you need to access them down the road due to hard drive failure or loss of local backup, one-time 9.99 fee is more cost efficient than months or years of storing them on an offsite service - let alone not having to upload the files to the backup service yourself, which can take a long time and impact internet data costs in some cases.

Thank you for voicing your concern and thoughts on the system and I will surely relay them to the team.
Your defence is that you dont want your customers to use you as a storage provider. Its not like you are duplicating a sample library to every customers user area, come on, eho are you trying to fool?
This whole thing is just an annoyance for your customers and an oppurtunity for IK Multimedia to make yet another dollar.
Just add a few $ to the ordinary price, if you absolutly must, and give the customer access to download the product whenever they need it and not make them find the credit card once again. It's all about the user experience.

I really liked IKM back in the day. Especially Amplitube. But look at that product now. Custom Shop totally ruined it.
Last time I installed Amplitube and started to audition the presets i was sent to the web shop all the time.
When I buy and install a product my expectaitions is to install the product and start creating music. Not install the product and go webshopping! .

Im sure many users falls for this model and use alot of money on it but it also drives many potential customers to use other products insted.

You make great products. Why destroy the user experience with all this sh** / business models.

Im not an active forum user but stupid answers from company representants gets me going. Wont post more about this, promise.
Old 4th June 2017
  #394
Lives for gear
 
Peter - IK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrake View Post
Your defence is that you dont want your customers to use you as a storage provider. Its not like you are duplicating a sample library to every customers user area, come on, eho are you trying to fool?
This whole thing is just an annoyance for your customers and an oppurtunity for IK Multimedia to make yet another dollar.
Just add a few $ to the ordinary price, if you absolutly must, and give the customer access to download the product whenever they need it and not make them find the credit card once again. It's all about the user experience.

I really liked IKM back in the day. Especially Amplitube. But look at that product now. Custom Shop totally ruined it.
Last time I installed Amplitube and started to audition the presets i was sent to the web shop all the time.
When I buy and install a product my expectaitions is to install the product and start creating music. Not install the product and go webshopping! .

Im sure many users falls for this model and use alot of money on it but it also drives many potential customers to use other products insted.

You make great products. Why destroy the user experience with all this sh** / business models.

Im not an active forum user but stupid answers from company representants gets me going. Wont post more about this, promise.
It was merely one example that exists, and not a defense at all. The best defense is to back up the libraries as recommended at point of purchase and to contact IK Support directly if you have a special case to make where you might have lost said backups. Based on the data we have this is neither a huge turnoff at point of purchase nor a huge inconvenience when an issue arises (since, as I point out, special cases where normal backups are not available are heard by IK Support who do a great job taking care of our customers). Your input counter to this is of course duly noted.

Also note that I will still relay your specific concern regardless of the frankly rude labeling of my responses trying to help people here as "stupid". You are free to disagree with business decisions by a company but directly calling a representative of a company who is generally deemed as a helpful resource here stupid is a bit out of line in my opinion. I understand that sometimes anger and frustration is misdirected and I'll happily give some benefit of the doubt and redirect it toward business policies you don't agree with instead of toward an actual person (who didn't make those decisions with which you disagree, by the way).
Old 4th June 2017
  #395
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter - IK View Post
It was merely one example that exists, and not a defense at all. The best defense is to back up the libraries as recommended at point of purchase and to contact IK Support directly if you have a special case to make where you might have lost said backups. Based on the data we have this is neither a huge turnoff at point of purchase nor a huge inconvenience when an issue arises (since, as I point out, special cases where normal backups are not available are heard by IK Support who do a great job taking care of our customers). Your input counter to this is of course duly noted.

Also note that I will still relay your specific concern regardless of the frankly rude labeling of my responses trying to help people here as "stupid". You are free to disagree with business decisions by a company but directly calling a representative of a company who is generally deemed as a helpful resource here stupid is a bit out of line in my opinion. I understand that sometimes anger and frustration is misdirected and I'll happily give some benefit of the doubt and redirect it toward business policies you don't agree with instead of toward an actual person (who didn't make those decisions with which you disagree, by the way).

Sorry if my post came out as angry and if you took any of it personally. Intention was not to direct any critic to you personally but the way IK is doing business. You are wearing the hat of IK in here so you=IK as far as I see. What you write using that profile is looked at like words from IK, not you personally. When I reply with YOU, at least I think IK.

Anyway, this is just blowing out of porpotions. I just expressed what I think is the worst company I have been involved with in this thread.
Over and out...
Old 5th June 2017
  #396
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecubeman View Post
most complicated because you need to buy pretty expensive dongle
The whole "expensive dongle" thing always killed me. Although a SHARC chip is obviously nowhere near as powerful as an i7 (or maybe even an i5 or i3 for that matter? who knows). I never viewed it as a dongle at all. That thing really comes in handy mid-mix when you have a CPU heavy project and then all the sudden you want to slap on a Massive Passive or LA2A plugin that is so well coded and sounds so good it would probably be very CPU hungry in native-world.
Old 5th June 2017
  #397
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenix View Post
The whole "expensive dongle" thing always killed me. Although a SHARC chip is obviously nowhere near as powerful as an i7 (or maybe even an i5 or i3 for that matter? who knows). I never viewed it as a dongle at all. That thing really comes in handy mid-mix when you have a CPU heavy project and then all the sudden you want to slap on a Massive Passive or LA2A plugin that is so well coded and sounds so good it would probably be very CPU hungry in native-world.
Not to mention the quality of the Apollo's Audio Interface, as mentioned previously. I'm adding this comment simply as reinforcement of this fact.
Old 12th June 2017
  #398
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Just to be clear, I wasn't attacking or disrespecting anyone in my post. I am asking a genuine question as I never understood the problem, so thanks for explaining your concern. You're right, my iLok account is indeed linked to my Gobbler account and that is indeed a bit concerning.

I just re-linked my account and see that it does the following:

Gobbler will be able to:
* Manage your licenses for you (activate or deactivate) within their application. <- this is a huge concern
* Support license management of other participating publishers' software.

Gobbler will not be able to:
* See, store, or change your password.
* Edit your account in any way.
* Change your licenses without your permission.

Has anyone posed this question to Softube?
Hi There, Chris Kantrowitz Founder and CEO of Gobbler here. I see a lot of discussion about Gobbler so I thought I would jump in an do an AMA in the thread. But just for the sake of everyone reading here i'll explain the account connection. For all companies who are using Gobbler for subscription we need to connect their Ilok account to a Gobbler account so we are able to deposit the licenses they purchase. Without this ability the our system could not talk to the Pace servers and say "This person has paid... renew their license automatically". Our mission has been to make Getting plugins way more frictionless. The folks here on Gearslutz are very experienced and most have an ilok account already. So your experience with Gobbler differs a bit since you already have an account and you most likely have ILM running on your machine. But for the folks who have never had an ilok account things are totally different. We eliminate the need to ever go to ilok.com and create an account, download their app, download individual installers and install them 1 at a time. This has been really useful for our partners as it creates WAY less friction for the purchaser and eliminates a lot of steps between a purchase and using the plugins. Gobbler actually comes bundled with the ilok drivers so you don't need ILM to run your software. So with all companies using Ilok you would either have to download ILM or Gobbler. To folks who already have ILM it seems like we are redundant from an account authorization but for the fast majority of people using Gobbler today they don't even know what ILM is.

Now Softube is a special case. Softube has set a system up where Gobbler is the account management for all of their accounts. The reason for this is it creates a unified experience for users. Everyone gets 1click download install and notifications when new updates are available. Connecting the your pace account to the Gobbler account just tells us which software you have purchased from Softube and what to display in the Gobbler app when you log in. It also helps Softube on the customer service side as they don't have 2 sets of users in their database.

I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to keep this thread going I happy to provide more insight.

All the best

Chris
Old 12th June 2017
  #399
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
If you do a search "Gobbler" in Forums such as the Gearslutz or the Kvr, you will soon find out that there's plenty of discussion concerning this subject. And yes, e.g. I have contancted to the Softube several times, no effect.
Although you can read about those Gobbler rules, just do a test to yourself: if some new, unknown operator says "write here your bank account user and password/data, we link your account to our system, but don't worry, we don't missuse your information", would you say, OK, I will, right away. Or would you have second thoughs.
The iLok account may be worth if several 1000 dollars.
Hi Harry,

Chris Kantrowitz CEO of Gobbler. You are absolutely right that one should be cautious about where they provide their information but I'd like to address your concerns. On the account linking: We do not ask for, nor store, nor ever even for a split second have access to your ilok account password. The screen that pops up asking for this information if served by Pace. It's their servers which confirm your username and password. Linking accounts allows us to deposit the software you purchase into your account automatically.

WRT who we are as a company. All of the companies who use Gobbler for their services have heavily vetted us. We now have 10 companies on Gobbler. For them to trust us with connectivity with their customers and ensuring they are has happy as can be they looked under every stone we have. We had to gain their trust that we can be trusted. Ripping people off is a suckers game and only lasts about a second on the internet. You can get away with it once or twice but the minute you commit a crime such as stealing credit card numbers or misuse data you'll get caught. Payment processors are more vigilant then ever finding companies which commit fraud. We have been in business for 7 years. We have serviced over 50,000 paid customers. Frankly it's much better business to be honest and work to consistently make your product better then to do a ton of work to build a sophisticated subscription system only to throw it all out the door by ripping someone off. Credit card fraud and identity theft is a crime.

You can google search me. I am a real human with a passion for audio. We love what we do and are stoked everyday to make Gobbler a better product for our partners and our end customers.

We are based in Los Angeles you can come visit us anytime we love visitors.

Chris
Old 12th June 2017
  #400
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Hi Harry,

Chris Kantrowitz CEO of Gobbler. You are absolutely right that one should be cautious about where they provide their information but I'd like to address your concerns. On the account linking: We do not ask for, nor store, nor ever even for a split second have access to your ilok account password. The screen that pops up asking for this information if served by Pace. It's their servers which confirm your username and password. Linking accounts allows us to deposit the software you purchase into your account automatically.

WRT who we are as a company. All of the companies who use Gobbler for their services have heavily vetted us. We now have 10 companies on Gobbler. For them to trust us with connectivity with their customers and ensuring they are has happy as can be they looked under every stone we have. We had to gain their trust that we can be trusted. Ripping people off is a suckers game and only lasts about a second on the internet. You can get away with it once or twice but the minute you commit a crime such as stealing credit card numbers or misuse data you'll get caught. Payment processors are more vigilant then ever finding companies which commit fraud. We have been in business for 7 years. We have serviced over 50,000 paid customers. Frankly it's much better business to be honest and work to consistently make your product better then to do a ton of work to build a sophisticated subscription system only to throw it all out the door by ripping someone off. Credit card fraud and identity theft is a crime.

You can google search me. I am a real human with a passion for audio. We love what we do and are stoked everyday to make Gobbler a better product for our partners and our end customers.

We are based in Los Angeles you can come visit us anytime we love visitors.

Chris
Thank you for the comment.

However, nothing new in above which changed the situation I (and several other) have described, see e.g. this thread
3 Best/Worst Plugin Companies To You - 2014

If the Softube had wanted to do this "Gobbler outsourcing" in the correct way, i.e. in the way where the confidentiality between the end-user and developer had sustained, they could have done that.

But Softube and Gobbler choose an other way to operate.
From the client's point of view that is so big deal and change that they should have informed much, much better of this their system, and explained WHY.

This requires of course that PACE had been with this information and created an option to the user account/iLok Manager. Is there any? No.

In the PACE site there is no information about the Gobbler. How transparent is that?

The normal way how 99,9 % of the developers handle the co-operation and information between the client/dealers/PACE is the following:

1. You (=buyer) get the product code with the purchase
2. You register the product to the developer site and give at the same time your iLok USERNAME
3. The developer sends your registration to the PACE
4. The PACE inclyudes the license to your iLok account
5. You find your license in your iLok Manager.

In the Softube's case this is not possible.
You have to LET THE GOBBLER DO THE AUTHORIZATION.
You have to give your iLok PASSWORD to the Gobbler.
Well, Chris say above that its not the Gobbler but PACE who gets this
information.

But where do we need the Gobbler, once we have the PACE?
And why can't the authorization be done only with the users iLok username, as 99,9 % of the developers do? Why can't you explain that to the clients, they are not stupid.

And because the PACE is the "owner" of the iLok customers, why
have the Gobbler not together with the owner PACE officially informed the clients of this new procedure, explained the motivation for this and added this "send to the Gobbler" to the users PACE tools (iLok Manager, account)?

I see the whole story as a big misstake by the Softube/Gobbler, likely its a communication misstake mainly. The biggest misstake is, that when the Softube/Gobbler noticed that all clients (and potential new clients) will not "buy" this new procedure, the Softube/Gobbler were not humble enough to take one step back and take an other, more transparent approach to the whole scheme (see above instructions, I give this consultation free of charge).

Old 12th June 2017
  #401
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
Thank you for the comment.

However, nothing new in above which changed the situation I (and several other) have described, see e.g. this thread
3 Best/Worst Plugin Companies To You - 2014

If the Softube had wanted to do this "Gobbler outsourcing" in the correct way, i.e. in the way where the confidentiality between the end-user and developer had sustained, they could have done that.

But Softube and Gobbler choose an other way to operate.
From the client's point of view that is so big deal and change that they should have informed much, much better of this their system, and explained WHY.

This requires of course that PACE had been with this information and created an option to the user account/iLok Manager. Is there any? No.

In the PACE site there is no information about the Gobbler. How transparent is that?

The normal way how 99,9 % of the developers handle the co-operation and information between the client/dealers/PACE is the following:

1. You (=buyer) get the product code with the purchase
2. You register the product to the developer site and give at the same time your iLok USERNAME
3. The developer sends your registration to the PACE
4. The PACE inclyudes the license to your iLok account
5. You find your license in your iLok Manager.

In the Softube's case this is not possible.
You have to LET THE GOBBLER DO THE AUTHORIZATION.
You have to give your iLok PASSWORD to the Gobbler.
Well, Chris say above that its not the Gobbler but PACE who gets this
information.

But where do we need the Gobbler, once we have the PACE?
And why can't the authorization be done only with the users iLok username, as 99,9 % of the developers do? Why can't you explain that to the clients, they are not stupid.

And because the PACE is the "owner" of the iLok customers, why
have the Gobbler not together with the owner PACE officially informed the clients of this new procedure, explained the motivation for this and added this "send to the Gobbler" to the users PACE tools (iLok Manager, account)?

I see the whole story as a big misstake by the Softube/Gobbler, likely its a communication misstake mainly. The biggest misstake is, that when the Softube/Gobbler noticed that all clients (and potential new clients) will not "buy" this new procedure, the Softube/Gobbler were not humble enough to take one step back and take an other, more transparent approach to the whole scheme (see above instructions, I give this consultation free of charge).

Harry I am happy to answer all questions. This is why I responded to yours. As I look back over the months more then one person has given you information about what we do and why we do it. I love the Gearslutz community it's raw and unedited. So here I am... Open and available to answer. We are not hiding anywhere as you have suggested. You mention we are not noted on the Pace website anywhere? Here is a post where Pace spcficially walks thruogh the autorization process Softube account - Gobbler needs your iLok password?. There is no hiding. This is in plain site right on GearSlutz we do the same thing Pro-Tools does. It seems to me the real issue is we don't do things the way you want them. For sure we can't accommodate everyone's need but we do operate on the 90/10 rule and every things we do with our platform and for our partners is born out of a lot of customer research. It has been long held that many people can't stand ilok, or hate pace. With Gobbler we have reduced the amount of interaction you have with them. Gobbler replaces the need to use ILM for most people. Frankly many have thanked us for that. Gobbler contains all of the Pace drivers so users don't need ILM. For many this is all they need. We are on a mission to get great software in the hands of more people. Subscription has leveled the playing field and made high end software more affordable. We have built a system which encourages folks to pause their subscriptions when they don't have a gig. We have worked long and hard to bring a bunch of great companies to the system and frankly it's been amazing. We get emails all the time from folks who have bought their first subscriptions and it's changed the game for them. Sadly you for some reason take the stand that there is some evil plan being hatched by Pace and Gobbler. That surely we are upto no good. That we would put all of this effort into bringing subscription services to the Pro-Audio community just to throw it out by stealing a credit card or a license off of someone's Pace account. In an earlier post you mused why we would ask for the security code on the back of the credit card as part of the payment process and that you have purchased from sites who don't require it. The reason a legitimate e-commerce asks for that code is not to get a chance to steal your card and use it somewhere else it's because standup companies are doing their best to eliminate credit card fraud and asking for that code is one way to do it. If you purchase from a site and they do not ask for that code.... that is shady. They know that their fraud rates will be higher but they do it for the sake of pumping sales. We don't do that and I can proudly say in the over 1,000,000 transactions that have occurred on our site we have had 1 yes just 1 case of fraud and that customer was refunded their money in full.

Chris
Old 12th June 2017
  #402
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Harry I am happy to answer all questions. This is why I responded to yours. As I look back over the months more then one person has given you information about what we do and why we do it. I love the Gearslutz community it's raw and unedited. So here I am... Open and available to answer. We are not hiding anywhere as you have suggested. You mention we are not noted on the Pace website anywhere? Here is a post where Pace spcficially walks thruogh the autorization process Softube account - Gobbler needs your iLok password?. There is no hiding. This is in plain site right on GearSlutz we do the same thing Pro-Tools does. It seems to me the real issue is we don't do things the way you want them. For sure we can't accommodate everyone's need but we do operate on the 90/10 rule and every things we do with our platform and for our partners is born out of a lot of customer research. It has been long held that many people can't stand ilok, or hate pace. With Gobbler we have reduced the amount of interaction you have with them. Gobbler replaces the need to use ILM for most people. Frankly many have thanked us for that. Gobbler contains all of the Pace drivers so users don't need ILM. For many this is all they need. We are on a mission to get great software in the hands of more people. Subscription has leveled the playing field and made high end software more affordable. We have built a system which encourages folks to pause their subscriptions when they don't have a gig. We have worked long and hard to bring a bunch of great companies to the system and frankly it's been amazing. We get emails all the time from folks who have bought their first subscriptions and it's changed the game for them. Sadly you for some reason take the stand that there is some evil plan being hatched by Pace and Gobbler. That surely we are upto no good. That we would put all of this effort into bringing subscription services to the Pro-Audio community just to throw it out by stealing a credit card or a license off of someone's Pace account. In an earlier post you mused why we would ask for the security code on the back of the credit card as part of the payment process and that you have purchased from sites who don't require it. The reason a legitimate e-commerce asks for that code is not to get a chance to steal your card and use it somewhere else it's because standup companies are doing their best to eliminate credit card fraud and asking for that code is one way to do it. If you purchase from a site and they do not ask for that code.... that is shady. They know that their fraud rates will be higher but they do it for the sake of pumping sales. We don't do that and I can proudly say in the over 1,000,000 transactions that have occurred on our site we have had 1 yes just 1 case of fraud and that customer was refunded their money in full.

Chris
Few minutes I dared to wish your comment was a new start, sign of change, but this latest response shows that the old attitude of Gobbler/Softube how to communicate clients is there, unchanged.

You say above "Sadly you for some reason take the stand that there is some evil plan being hatched by Pace and Gobblel".

This comment despises the clients need to be careful where and how to share his/her passwords.
This comment despises the clients need to get information, the need for transparency.
If you realky think the link you sent of the PACE cooperation is enough for such a big change, very little you know of the communication.

I don' see any "evil plan" in the Softube/Gobbler's act.
I see just very, very poor understanding of the market communication and marketing.
Perhaps some shortages in the implementation, too.

I (and many other critics) have no motivation to diss Softube/Gobbler - only the way they have handled their communication and the implement this new way to do the authorization.
On the contrary, I REALLY hope they could improve their performance.
Simply because I think that the Softube makes great products. And now I can't buy those.
I even have one purchased Softube plugin unused and unauthorized since February.
Your tomfoolery costs me money and time.
PLEASE correct your implementation!

You did not anwer most of my questions above, e.g. once we have the end-user, the dealer, the developer and the authorization organization (PACE), why do we need the Gobbler?

And, why the Gobbler (if there must be one) can't proceed the iLok authorization just using the clients iLok account username, as most of the authorizations happen?

You really should consider with the Softube change of attitude here. The clients are not evil, believe me, they will that you succeed, because they win in that way, too, and they bring the money.

Once again:

If the Softube had wanted to do this "Gobbler outsourcing" in the correct way, i.e. in the way where the confidentiality between the end-user and developer had sustained, they could have done that.
Old 12th June 2017
  #403
Gear Guru
Yeah that seemed really patronizing..... Dude we're not stupid and some were burnt on your storage fiasco, and also Gobbler can be invasive populating people's systems. Early on, I tried transferring files and the recipient was furious, I was using something that went into his root system...... Anyway, cut the "we're not sych an evil company" schtik, and please realize some on here are pros with legitimate beefs......
Old 12th June 2017
  #404
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
Few minutes I dared to wish your comment was a new start, sign of change, but this latest response shows that the old attitude of Gobbler/Softube how to communicate clients is there, unchanged.

You say above "Sadly you for some reason take the stand that there is some evil plan being hatched by Pace and Gobblel".

This comment despises the clients need to be careful where and how to share his/her passwords.
This comment despises the clients need to get information, the need for transparency.
If you realky think the link you sent of the PACE cooperation is enough for such a big change, very little you know of the communication.

I don' see any "evil plan" in the Softube/Gobbler's act.
I see just very, very poor understanding of the market communication and marketing.
Perhaps some shortages in the implementation, too.

I (and many other critics) have no motivation to diss Softube/Gobbler - only the way they have handled their communication and the implement this new way to do the authorization.
On the contrary, I REALLY hope they could improve their performance.
Simply because I think that the Softube makes great products. And now I can't buy those.
I even have one purchased Softube plugin unused and unauthorized since February.
Your tomfoolery costs me money and time.
PLEASE correct your implementation!

You did not anwer most of my questions above, e.g. once we have the end-user, the dealer, the developer and the authorization organization (PACE), why do we need the Gobbler?

And, why the Gobbler (if there must be one) can't proceed the iLok authorization just using the clients iLok account username, as most of the authorizations happen?

You really should consider with the Softube change of attitude here. The clients are not evil, believe me, they will that you succeed, because they win in that way, too, and they bring the money.

Once again:

If the Softube had wanted to do this "Gobbler outsourcing" in the correct way, i.e. in the way where the confidentiality between the end-user and developer had sustained, they could have done that.

Harry,

You have been attacking this idea for months. And many people on this thread have explained to you that we are not doing anything strange. You simply don't want it done this way and the only way to satisfy you is to do what you want.

I am not flaming you or throwing attitude but you have been so stubborn I felt it necessary for you to hear my truth.

In one of your posts you call us an "unknown operator". That is just not the case we have been in business for 7 years and have been selling plugin subscriptions for 2. We have 10 top companies using our service. I would hardly call us an "unknown operator". You have said "Having an additional operator between the end user, developer and PACE is pure madness." While never understanding what we do as a company, the services we offer and why developers are using our platform. We are solving real problems they have. Offering subscriptions is not the same as selling perpetual licenses. We are running a service that has to be up 24/7/365. We have a team of people whose only job is keeping the systems running. This is not typically how plugin developers want to spend their time. My hope is that by alleviating this work they can spend more time making more plugins.

You stated "I wonder if the Softube supervising board and owners are aware of this rock bottom Gobbler software, not to mention the "give us your iLok password, or we show you the door" -policy. Softube CEO, time to wake up!"

We didn't just magically show up as the backend for Softube. We worked really hard and really close with them to create a vastly improved customer experience. You may not like it but over 100,000 people have used it and I am proud to say most have had a good experience. You name call us left and right you say inflaming things and at the same time you state you are trying to be productive. My email is public, our support is easy to find you have never once reached out to my company or me for that matter to get your questions answered you just chose to flame us in this channel. I read greatslutz because I do care about what people say and the suggestions they have and frankly most people post really productive things. You on the other hand have just decided you don't like the way something is done and choose to bad mouth us. Pro-tools does it, east west does it. We are all working to make the user experience better. None of it is trying to steal information.

You have made suggestions that we are up to something when you stated "Now, in the PACE site there is no information about the Gobbler. How transparent is that?"

Pace has posted in GearSlutz about this we have posted here about it. What do you think we are hiding as is suggested by your statement above?

For everyone reading this... and if you made it this far ( i apologize you got pulled in)

I am CEO the buck stops with me. Any single person is 100% open to email me at anytime [email protected]. We want Gobbler to be the best experience for you. We want to make music making better than it's ever been. We work hard with our partners and our customers to keep everyone stoked. Our support team is awesome. If you ever have issues hit us at [email protected] we have a less then 24 hour turn around.

I love my company and what we do. Harry does not like the authorization system . It works no different then if you use your google account to log into something or your facebook account. You are NOT giving the other party your password. Then in effect you would be giving anyone access to your email... We worked long and hard with pace to ensure the security of the account authorization. We do not EVER have your password. In addition as for transparency. There is nothing hidden. You connect your Gobbler account to your Pace account so the Gobbler app knows which plugins should appear in your app for download. Which plugins need to be updated when an update is available and If you have a subscription to drop an additional license in your account each month once you have been charged. We have not ability to take your licenses away. And on another note, Harry was concerned about what we would do with credit card numbers. We don't have your credit card number. It's stored by our payment provider and in this case its Paypal. We see the last 4 digits of the number. This is a decision we made we don't want to be responsible for any potential leaks of that kind of information so it's all handled by a party who specializes in keeping this kind of information secure not a single person in our company has access to any credit card information including myself.

Harry you said "You did not anwser most of my questions above, e.g. once we have the end-user, the dealer, the developer and the authorization organization (PACE), why do we need the Gobbler?".. see below

For the sake of everyone reading here i'll explain the account connection. For all companies who are using Gobbler for subscription we need to connect their Ilok account to a Gobbler account so we are able to deposit the licenses they deposit. Without this ability the our system could not talk to Pace and say "This person has paid renew their license automatically". Our mission has been to make Getting plugins way more frictionless. The folks here on Gearslutz are very experienced and most have an ilok account already. So your experience with Gobbler differs a bit since you already have an account and you most likely have ILM running on your machine. But for the folks who have never had an ilok account things are totally different. We eliminate the need to ever go to ilok.com and create an account, download their app, download individual installers and install them 1 at a time. This has been really useful for our partners as it creates WAY less friction for the purchaser and eliminates a lot of steps between a purchase and using the plugins. Gobbler actually comes bundled with the pace drivers so you don't need ILM to run your software. So with all companies using Ilok you would either have to download ILM or Gobbler. To folks who already have ILM it seems like we are redundant from an account authorization but for the fast majority of people using Gobbler today they don't even know what ILM is.

Now Softube is a special case. Softube has set a system up where Gobbler is the account management for all of their accounts. The reason for this is it creates a unified experience for users. Everyone gets 1click download install and notifications when new updates are available. Connecting the your pace account to the Gobbler account just tells us which software you have purchased from Softube and what to display in the Gobbler app when you log in. It also helps Softube on the customer service side as they don't have 2 sets of users in their database.

So with all of this and to you Harry. I hope I have answered your question. And I hope through all of this that you see we are responsive and we do care. We care a lot.. To the point I am willing to put it all out here for everyone to see. We have nothing to hide.
Old 12th June 2017
  #405
Flux has been a disappointment lately.... Very hard to get problems solved with the Paris time zone difference.... Probably will not buy anymore plugs from them...
Old 13th June 2017
  #406
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
We didn't just magically show up as the backend for Softube. We worked really hard and really close with them to create a vastly improved customer experience.
My customer experience has not improved. I don't like PACE and iLoks - I've said so many times over the years - and now I'm supposed to accept yet another layer of intrusion. I understand that the purpose of Gobbler is to make my life easier... Well, it hasn't.

I like to keep in control of my computer, and my life in general. I don't want anybody telling when it's time to update, upgrade, provide passwords and be a good boy.

I avoid iLoked plugins, these days, and it's easy enough to do. There are usually plenty of alternatives. Gobbler or any similar service will not be installed on my machines.

The point of me posting this is letting developers know that there are potential customers out there who prefer the old way of doing things - manually.
Old 13th June 2017
  #407
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
My customer experience has not improved. I don't like PACE and iLoks - I've said so many times over the years - and now I'm supposed to accept yet another layer of intrusion. I understand that the purpose of Gobbler is to make my life easier... Well, it hasn't.

I like to keep in control of my computer, and my life in general. I don't want anybody telling when it's time to update, upgrade, provide passwords and be a good boy.

I avoid iLoked plugins, these days, and it's easy enough to do. There are usually plenty of alternatives. Gobbler or any similar service will not be installed on my machines.

The point of me posting this is letting developers know that there are potential customers out there who prefer the old way of doing things - manually.
Hi Tui!

Totally understand your position. There are certainly a fair share of companies that use other systems. Just so you know. We have built our system with flexibility. You can use plugins from all of the companies we sell subscriptions without using the Gobbler app. You can install ILM and download the installers from the web.

We are not attempting a computer land grab. We are an option for folks who like what we have built.

Like you said there are plenty of alternatives.

What are your favorite plugins?
Old 13th June 2017
  #408
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
Yeah that seemed really patronizing..... Dude we're not stupid and some were burnt on your storage fiasco, and also Gobbler can be invasive populating people's systems. Early on, I tried transferring files and the recipient was furious, I was using something that went into his root system...... Anyway, cut the "we're not sych an evil company" schtik, and please realize some on here are pros with legitimate beefs......
And I am here to address them. I am down to hear it all. We have had issues and I take full ownership of them. Does this mean we should be vilified forever? I turn towards this community to hear what they have to say and do my best to address them. Even now you bring up that we installed something on the root system implying that we were up to something nefarious. Like you said.. there are a ton of really smart people on here. If we were doing something with a root install which sniffing for data I am 1000% sure the community would have picked up on it.
Old 13th June 2017
  #409
Lives for gear
It still seems like the fact that Gobbler never has access to our iLok passwords is still not understood by some of the people who are so anti-Gobbler.
Old 13th June 2017
  #410
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
And I am here to address them. I am down to hear it all. We have had issues and I take full ownership of them. Does this mean we should be vilified forever? I turn towards this community to hear what they have to say and do my best to address them. Even now you bring up that we installed something on the root system implying that we were up to something nefarious. Like you said.. there are a ton of really smart people on here. If we were doing something with a root install which sniffing for data I am 1000% sure the community would have picked up on it.
Ummm no... Don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about your software data mining. Simply raising the point that it has a reputation for being invasive. Isn't that the way it works?

There are people on here that have had problems with that, overwriting data. I also have no confidence in a company that lost customers data. Are you being obtuse or just paranoid? Seriously. You've gone from being patronizing to insulting.
Old 13th June 2017
  #411
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
Ummm no... Don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about your software data mining. Simply raising the point that it has a reputation for being invasive. Isn't that the way it works?

There are people on here that have had problems with that, overwriting data. I also have no confidence in a company that lost customers data. Are you being obtuse or just paranoid? Seriously. You've gone from being patronizing to insulting.
That's not the way it works. This is why I am here on this thread and in Gearslutz. Not to insult anyone but just to have real talk. Some companies filter what they say in there because they are too afraid of the potential for backlash. We don't do anything invasive. We don't overwrite data. We don't move your files around we don't even know what you have on your computer. All we know is you installed stuff from our app. The reason we ask for a special layer of authentication is it's the only way we can install the plugins which are being downloaded through our app. That's it. If we didn't get that second authorization you would have to type in your system password each time we installed a plugin.

We do nothing more. On the customer data loss issue. It sucked. I lost data my whole team did. My best friends did. It was one of the worst things we have ever had to deal with. But then I ask you. Does this mean you can never trust a company again? If so I get it... I'd appreciate a second chance. So I come on here. I take full responsibility for it. I participate in discussion (even when attacked). I appreciate this community and all of it's brilliance. It's a brutal place it's raw and real. My team and I are all focused on making great products. We really care about what we do and this industry.
Old 13th June 2017
  #412
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Hi Tui!
...
What are your favorite plugins?
Hi. Well, since you asked, I have over a hundred plugins, but I seem to come back to the same ones. I own 11 Softube licenses, and their plugins are among my favourites. Obviously, Waves does great stuff, and since they moved away from PACE/iLok, it is even easier to be a return customer. Voxengo does fantastic EQs and saturation, TAL has some of the best FX, and free too. Ignite Amps is up there with the best.

I use a lot of VIs, being a composer, so "plugin" means much more to me than processing. Native Instruments are great, Kontakt our go-to tool for just about everything. No iLoks, no dongles, practically unlimited authorisations... NI know how to treat their customers well.
Old 13th June 2017
  #413
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Hi. Well, since you asked, I have over a hundred plugins, but I seem to come back to the same ones. I own 11 Softube licenses, and their plugins are among my favourites. Obviously, Waves does great stuff, and since they moved away from iLoks, it is even easier to be a return customer. Voxengo does fantastic EQs and saturation, TAL has some of the best FX, and free too. Ignite Amps is up there with the best.

I use a lot of VIs, being a composer, so "plugin" means much more to me than processing. Native Instruments are great, Kontakt our go-to tool for just about everything. No iLoks, no dongles, practically unlimited authorisations... NI know how to treat their customers well.
Never used Voxengo any in particular you would recommend? I am always on the lookout for a great EQ.
Old 13th June 2017
  #414
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Never used Voxengo any in particular you would recommend? I am always on the lookout for a great EQ.
Well, the Voxengo PrimeEQ is my go-to for clean cutting or boosting. It never sounds harsh or phasey - and I've tried just about every EQ there is.

There's also the free Overtone GEQ which is great on drums and percussion as it lifts the top-end.

Check'em out.
Old 13th June 2017
  #415
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Well, the Voxengo PrimeEQ is my go-to for clean cutting or boosting. It never sounds harsh or phasey - and I've tried just about every EQ there is.

There's also the free Overtone GEQ which is great on drums and percussion as it lifts the top-end.

Check'em out.
Sweet! I'll do that tonight. Thanks for the 411

Chris
Old 13th June 2017
  #416
Gear Addict
 

Personally I think Softube offers a very good licensing scheme. You get two authorizations (e.g. Computer and iLok) so you can move around with your licenses and not necessarily use the physical iLok. And this Gobbler thing for me, as an end user, means a more efficient way of nstaling updates.
Old 13th June 2017
  #417
Lives for gear
 

To "Gobbler Press".
So many words - so little information. Because of that, can´t help that answering takes some space, too.

Lets put the essential in a nutshell:
1. In the Softube´s case (which I have referred all the time), Softube used to have the same iLok authorization practice as most of the iLok protected developers, i.e. after the purchase the user registered the product in the developers site where he gave his iLok account username. The developer sends that information (product information and the iLok username) to the PACE, the product appeared immediately to the clients ILok account/iLok Manager, where he could activate it.
2. When the Gobbler came to the picture, the above worked not anymore.
In stead the user got the Internet site which said in bold "Gobbler needs your iLok information", and the before being able to authorize the product, the user had to enter his iLok username AND PASSWORD to that site. See below.
Since some complains, Softube/Gobbler changed some wording of that site, but the fact that it needed both the iLok usename and password.

Note. the above concerns the purcases via the dealer, if you buy the plugin directly from the develepers, you in most cases get the activation code directly which you can use to redeem it using the iLok Manager.

Now, I try to answer/comment the latest reponse of the "Gobbler Press".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Harry,
You have been attacking this idea for months...You simply don't want it done this way and the only way to satisfy you is to do what you want.
Its not "what I want", the above way (point 1) is the practice 99,9 % iLok protected developers do. And I think its a good way, the user gives two things, the product ID and his iLok username, and the PACE, by which the user has made the contract (created account), authorizes the product.
Where do we need Gobbler in this triangle?
Neither the Softube nor Gobbler have cared to motivate that to the clients.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
In one of your posts you call us an "unknown operator". That is just not the case we have been in business for 7 years and have been selling plugin subscriptions for 2. We have 10 top companies using our service. I would hardly call us an "unknown operator"
This comment may reflect a lot of the "Gobbler Press" basic attitude, which explains the poor performance in the communication. If the operator is unknow to the target group, it does not matter how long he has "been i the business". He has to present himself to (in this case Softube´s) the customers. They have together explain and motivate why this new arrangement is better one, what are the advantages for the user, what are the rules, how the information is protected, if there is the any alternative ways for the user to do the authorizations etc. etc. Every market communication student knows these fundaments - the new operator has to earn his credibility, you have to repeat your message, in different forums. Very, very poor perfomance in the market communication, in the age of Internet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
You have made suggestions that we are up to something when you stated "Now, in the PACE site there is no information about the Gobbler. How transparent is that?"

Pace has posted in GearSlutz about this we have posted here about it. What do you think we are hiding as is suggested by your statement above?
And the same poor understanding of the marketing communication and the customer care continues here. If you really think that sending a post to the discussion forum is sufficient to communicate of this change, I can just wonder.

Once the Softube and PACE have client registers, why not send a personal email where to explain of these new arragements? And why not include more information of that both to the Softube and PACE´s sites?
Poor, poor performance in the communciation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
For everyone reading this... and if you made it this far ( i apologize you got pulled in)
The above is one of your most coward comments. You "pulled" the users in at the same moment you and the Softube implemented the present, poor auhtorization system.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Harry was concerned about what we would do with credit card numbers...
An other comment which shows both poor judgement and inability to read the situation. I´ve never been concerned what the Gobbler will do with the credit card numbers. Its not possible because I´ve never given credit card information to them, its not asked. What I wrote in one of my comments (its documented), is that I compared sharing publicly the iLok username AND PASSWORD to sharing the credit card information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobbler Press View Post
Harry you said "You did not anwser most of my questions above, e.g. once we have the end-user, the dealer, the developer and the authorization organization (PACE), why do we need the Gobbler?".. see below
That is the case, so far you have not answered to the core points of the whole case. Your strategy seems to be that you
- use a lot of words without saying almost anything
- you try to isolate my justified arguments to one man´s show

That is not very CEO-like, intelligent attitude.
In stead of your childish attempt to "Divide et impera", what if you and Softube really considered a) give to the client option to authorize his/her plugin without the way you do at the moment (see the below document of the Softube plugin auhtorization), b) improve your communication.

To remaind (once again) you what the core points are, I repeat those here, please try to answer those in few sentences, skip this time the pathos of the honest background of you and your company:
1. Where do we need the Gobbler - what is the add on value of that organization in the Softube´s case to the end-user in the equation end-user, dealer, developer, auhtorization organization (PACE)?
2. Why the Softube product end-user can´t authorize his dealer purchased plugin in the way 99,9 % developers do, giving the product ID and the username of the iLok? Why the user have to give his iLok password to the separate "Gobbler site" ?
(See below - note, the authorization attempt, which is a real one, was interrupted because I refused delivering my iLok password to that site)?



Last edited by Harry_O; 13th June 2017 at 11:39 PM..
Old 14th June 2017
  #418
Lives for gear
 
Jeezo's Avatar
Personnaly the first i tried , i entered my password .. grabbed what i needed , then disactivated the account , and changed my ilok password .... i master my stuff as possible ....i think softube should have done a gobbler thing for subscription and regular stuff on their own website ... gobbler are to share new way of dealing with costumers , subscriptions , i understand that brands can t handle that mess on their own ...but why dealing with gobbler when you don t have any sub ..in this cas i won t blame gobbler but softube ...
Old 16th June 2017
  #419
Lives for gear
Well, I for one, refuse to buy any more Softube plug-ins until the situation improves. I instead buy products from other makers, not involved in this Gobbler project.

The only thing I don't like about PACE is the iLok 2 hardware dongle crap and the fact how your computers are named, in iLok License Manager, makes it kinda hard to tell them apart without a good strategy. Which you might not have from day one and then your machine dies and you clone the old disk in the new one you're getting… Anyway, I think PACE can be reasoned with. I don't see Gobbler helping the user with any of that. It's just a layer for no, or very few, good reasons.

Softube will pay the price in this case. I see nothing wrong in how it worked before with proper installers and PACE.
Old 16th June 2017
  #420
No gobbler for me ... that's it... and no more softube products...
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