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T.C. Electronic on UAD-2 OFFICIAL! Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 25th March 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
So if there's no crossgrade deal for PoCo plugin license holders, I'll feel pretty wronged. I bought them all once, and since Powercore was abandoned I found (and paid for) alternatives for 90% of those plugins. So if they tried to force me to buy them all over again… well, I wouldn't feel any burning need to do that. But it would be great to be able to use them again if I could get them at a reasonable price. There are some things in there (e.g. NonLin 2) that I never found a good replacement for.
Yeah, this pretty much says it for me.. except my attitude is worse.. spent the money, got the burn, replaced most of it, and won't pay another @%#^&& dime for it.

I do miss the VSS3- but not bad enough to jump into the pit again.

Guess it hasn't been long enough?
Old 25th March 2014
  #62
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But the thing is...no one is forcing any single one of you to buy anything from anyone. I've had powercore, and if there's anything i remember then it was really upfront announcement of deceased development. Really they announced it and people had their chance to adopt to anything they want. Plenty of choices out there.

Then they even announced crossgrade to UAD. I think even unicorns knew what that mean.

I am not defending them but i am sick of these "i am entitled for..".. You all had your chance. Some of you even bought whole System 6000 plugins for peanut (after they announced crossgrades to uad). I remember prices on Poco forum was insanely low..

So please spare us TC is evil agenda..
Old 25th March 2014
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
I am not defending them but i am sick of these "i am entitled for.."..
I think one of the problems is back in the day TC's plugins were very expensive, so folk tend to think you buy hardware it lasts forever so expensive plugin should last forever as your almost paying hardware prices.

For example back in the day i bought a new hardware Access virus C for £1200.
Then the Powercore virus caught my eye so I payed £800 for Poco FireWire £350 for virus plugin and £200 for multiple licence...Total £1350 ... It turned out more expensive than the hardware version and never ever worked correctly.

So if you buy a Valhalla reverb for $50 then a year or two down the line Valhalla give up support then fair enough that's what you expect for $50, however when your paying £1000 plus for DSP hardware then £300 plus for reverbs you expect longativity.
I remember when TC gave up support for Powercore only weeks before customers had bought Powercore Mk2's hardware and plugins spending enormous amounts of cash.
I've been stung by TC giving up support for Powercore and UA giving up support for my 3x UAD-1's and it's only a matter of time before they give up support for UAD-2.
I own a UAD-2 now but I'm very cautious of investing much money into their plugins especially after my first UAD-2 broke for now reason after 6 months of use, ok UA replaced it however I did asked myself thats not something they are going to keep doing longterm for me. I'm going to get my use out of this UAD-2 and the plugins I have for it and once they give up support I'll kiss goodbye to DSP solutions.
Old 25th March 2014
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
I think one of the problems is back in the day TC's plugins were very expensive, so folk tend to think you buy hardware it lasts forever so expensive plugin should last forever as your almost paying hardware prices.

For example back in the day i bought a new hardware Access virus C for £1200.
Then the Powercore virus caught my eye so I payed £800 for Poco FireWire £350 for virus plugin and £200 for multiple licence...Total £1350 ... It turned out more expensive than the hardware version and never ever worked correctly.

So if you buy a Valhalla reverb for $50 then a year or two down the line Valhalla give up support then fair enough that's what you expect for $50, however when your paying £1000 plus for DSP hardware then £300 plus for reverbs you expect longativity.
I remember when TC gave up support for Powercore only weeks before customers had bought Powercore Mk2's hardware and plugins spending enormous amounts of cash.
I've been stung by TC giving up support for Powercore and UA giving up support for my 3x UAD-1's and it's only a matter of time before they give up support for UAD-2.
I own a UAD-2 now but I'm very cautious of investing much money into their plugins especially after my first UAD-2 broke for now reason after 6 months of use, ok UA replaced it however I did asked myself thats not something they are going to keep doing longterm for me. I'm going to get my use out of this UAD-2 and the plugins I have for it and once they give up support I'll kiss goodbye to DSP solutions.
+1

Mind you ALL software can be a risk.

I've bought and love the Relab LX480 reverb, but that's a one man operation and should Martin have a change of career then that might be it for a future OS.

But then again a hardware 480 is virtually unserviceable these days so in some ways you can't win.

By solution to redundant DSP cards is to dedicate a PC to them.

So I have dedicated mastering PC workstation with Wavelab 7 my Powercore 6000 (to use the Brickwall Limiter) and my two old UAD-1 cards as WL doesn't need to be 64 bit.

This way I'll be using my Powercore and UAD-1 for many years to come.

Now in my main workstation I'm using a UAD-2's .... and so the cycle goes on.

Just remember to save so money for your old age as well :-)
Old 25th March 2014
  #65
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Looks like the System 6000 and all the plugs are 50% off until June 30th. Guess we'll probably be seeing TC on UAD at that time.

This pretty much explains (imo) why TC never upgraded the S6000. A few years ago, when Bricasti came out, TC did a cosmetic upgrade to the S6000, but no DSP upgrade. They've probably know for the last 3-4 years that they would move to UAD. And the recent success of the whole Apollo line (added to the cards), give's TC lots of potential buyers (reportedly around 60,000 users now), with total copy protection. Native might never have offered them so much.

The DSP in the S6000 is about 12-15(?) years old, and the power of even a UAD Quad has probably much more horsepower than a entire S6000.

I wouldn't be surprised if they put out a dedicated UAD-TC card ($2-3k) to then be able to add TC licenses. Wouldn't be surprised either if they have several new verbs (updates) ready for the new platform. They've just been too silent for the last 2-3 years...

And I imagine they will have very generous cross-grade plans. It's really a win-win-win situation for TC, UA & users.
Old 25th March 2014
  #66
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mike1k's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
But the thing is...no one is forcing any single one of you to buy anything from anyone. I've had powercore, and if there's anything i remember then it was really upfront announcement of deceased development. Really they announced it and people had their chance to adopt to anything they want. Plenty of choices out there.

Then they even announced crossgrade to UAD. I think even unicorns knew what that mean.

I am not defending them but i am sick of these "i am entitled for..".. You all had your chance. Some of you even bought whole System 6000 plugins for peanut (after they announced crossgrades to uad). I remember prices on Poco forum was insanely low..

So please spare us TC is evil agenda..
Umm not everyone here is claiming "entitlement". I dumped a bunch of money on the Powercore platform and plugins before they decided that they couldn't make drivers that worked properly on new operating systems. If you ever visited their forum during those times, they pissed off a lot of customers with vague and snotty answers and just plain lousy customer service. "Adopting" is another word for writing off a large investment and spending money on something else. Nice of them to give us that opportunity.... As for your "unicorn" upgrade statement, did it ever occur to you that maybe some Poco owners already owned UA cards too? So the crossgrade meant what exactly? With all of these great choices, none of them involved having our Powercore plugins in the end.

If UA offered some kind of plugin deal to the thousands of disgruntled Powercore owners, they would likely sell more hardware and of course their own rather expensive plugins.... Would this go a long way in making people screwed over by TC (who UA is now in bed with) happier customers? (happy customers spend money). Yes. Do they have to do this? Of course not. I don't feel entitled, just screwed over. But that's my fault I suppose.
Old 25th March 2014
  #67
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
So if you buy a Valhalla reverb for $50 then a year or two down the line Valhalla give up support then fair enough that's what you expect for $50
I've spent much of the past year working on AAX versions of all of my plugins. These will be free updates. Just thought I'd mention it.
Old 25th March 2014
  #68
LX3
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One day I'll add up how much I spent on Powercore hardware and plugins. It was a LOT (thousands). I got to use it for about 18 months, and it was pretty buggy most of that time. So yes, you better believe I feel "entitled" to a cheap crossgrade to any forthcoming UAD versions.

I also owned (and still own) a UAD and nearly all their plugins. So TC's UAD crossgrade offer was worthless to me. In any case, it was a crossgrade to something that wasn't what I'd bought. Like saying "Next time your Ferrari breaks you're going to have to throw it away because we aren't going to repair it. But don't worry, we'll do you an offer on a Lexus".

I'm sure the Lexus is nice. But if I'd wanted a Lexus I wouldn't have bought a Ferrari. And anyway, I already owned a Lexus.

Are they saying they'll sell me a new Ferrari, at full price, to replace the one they refused to repair? How generous of them.

Let's hope that's not the case.
Old 25th March 2014
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1k View Post
If you ever visited their forum during those times, they pissed off a lot of customers with vague and snotty answers and just plain lousy customer service. "Adopting" is another word for writing off a large investment and spending money on something else. Nice of them to give us that opportunity.... As for your "unicorn" upgrade statement, did it ever occur to you that maybe some Poco owners already owned UA cards too?
Yes i actually visited their forum often - back then
Yes it occurred to me - as i already had UAD back then..I think if i remember correctly - i had to think 0,0000.2ms to understand that they will move to UAD once in a while. Yes i've sold Poco and you know, i have had that idea on keeping money to spend on the plugins once when they are ported to UAD but you can already guess that it didn't last that long

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1k View Post
If UA offered some kind of plugin deal to the thousands of disgruntled Powercore owners, they would likely sell more hardware and of course their own rather expensive plugins....
But UA offered a deal in partnership with TC..That's what i am trying to tell you. Anyway i feel your pain, it's just highly unlikely that TC will give you guys anything regarding crossgrade - since they already did something like that. Fingers crossed - good luck guys maybe it will happen..
Old 26th March 2014
  #70
Gear Maniac
 
Virtuoso's Avatar
TC seem to be all about cheap guitar pedals these days. Other than the vintage guitar pedal bundle, there haven't been any new Powercore plugins for years and they've done nothing about releasing 64 bit versions, so when they announced that Powercore would be discontinued, I assumed that key staff had probably moved on and there was nobody left who knew how to write the code anymore.

How is it that they can now move their plugins to an entirely new architecture but won't maintain them on their own platform?
Old 26th March 2014
  #71
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cane creek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso View Post
so when they announced that Powercore would be discontinued, I assumed that key staff had probably moved on and there was nobody left who knew how to write the code anymore. ?
The key staff probably have gone, I assume it's old code/plugins their releasing On UAD.
Old 26th March 2014
  #72
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cane creek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
I've spent much of the past year working on AAX versions of all of my plugins. These will be free updates. Just thought I'd mention it.
Hope my post read right to you Sean as I love my Valhalla room verb
Old 26th March 2014
  #73
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mac black's Avatar
Come on MD3 !!!
Old 26th March 2014
  #74
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depulse's Avatar
gimme the virus plugin
Old 26th March 2014
  #75
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
Hope my post read right to you Sean as I love my Valhalla room verb
No worries!

As far as TC Electronic porting their plugins over to UAD-2, my fairly informed guess is that these will have to be implemented from the ground up, with very little reuse of code:

- Universal Audio uses Juce for their GUI framework. The TC Powercore plugins would have been created before Juce, and may be using a graphics framework that isn't compatible with 64-bit DAWs. This is fairly common with older plugins that weren't based on VST GUI or Juce.

- The UAD-2 is based around SHARC DSPs, that use 32-bit floating point code. The Powercore used 24-bit fixed point Freescale DSPs. There is zero code overlap between these processors. So the audio DSP code will have to be reimplemented.

TC Electronic may be able to reuse their graphics assets from the Powercore plugins (the knob filmstrip images and background images), and the "algorithms" will be the same as far as the Platonic form of the algorithms, but most everything else will have to be created from scratch.
Old 26th March 2014
  #76
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Stimmt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
No worries!

As far as TC Electronic porting their plugins over to UAD-2, my fairly informed guess is that these will have to be implemented from the ground up, with very little reuse of code ...

Hi everybody. First Post.

A couple of weeks ago I wrote an E-Mail to Brainworx because I knew they coded the native Radar Metering plugins for TC Electronic.
So I kindly asked them whether they could convince TC to port some of their stuff to the highly profitable UAD platform, knowing that Brainworx are experts in the UAD SDK.

Their reply was bit strict, stating they would never speak for TC or UAD, and all projects will only be announced through public channels.

Now that this is announced and considering the difficulties of porting the code (as Sean Costello explains), I still guess that Brainworx will be highly involved in this. Which would be a good thing. We will see.
Old 26th March 2014
  #77
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schmuck's Avatar
I don't think it is especially "difficult" - it just means a certain effort is required. They must have done similar work for e.g. sonnox uad version (which made much less sense if you ask me).
Old 26th March 2014
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso View Post
How is it that they can now move their plugins to an entirely new architecture but won't maintain them on their own platform?
It remains to be seen if UAD 2 has enough juice to run multiple TC algos in realtime.
Old 27th March 2014
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
It remains to be seen if UAD 2 has enough juice to run multiple TC algos in realtime.
Probably not! I don't think Uad care anymore! A Uad 1 card could run 40+ 1176 plugins. Uad 2 can only run like 12 1176 mill...

They are giving less DSP per buck, the octos should've been $999 and the quad for half of that IMHO. But hopefully Uad 3 is a coming!
Old 27th March 2014
  #80
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stimmt View Post
I still guess that Brainworx will be highly involved in this. Which would be a good thing. We will see.
It would be a great thing if they also released NATIVE versions of the TC plugins, rather than UA exclusives. I have about $5k in Powercore hardware and plugins so I'm reluctant to repurchase the same plugins on yet another outdated and underpowered DSP platform.

There's no elegant UA DSP solution for current Mac users and plugins are getting more and more DSP hungry - we need a Thunderbolt UAD3 with at least Octo power.
Old 27th March 2014
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuoso View Post

There's no elegant UA DSP solution for current Mac users and plugins are getting more and more DSP hungry - we need a Thunderbolt UAD3 with at least Octo power.
Exactly +1!!!
Old 29th March 2014
  #82
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blackcom's Avatar
 

About all the ones who got "burned".

Not the perfect solution, but I guess most of those who are not able to still run their powercore plugins use the FireWire devices or perhaps the older PCI cards, correct?
If you are able to find a very cheaply second-hand Powercore PCIe (express) on ebay you can still log into your account and move all your plugins to this card. Most daws have bit-bridges that works very well now and there is also jBridge.
Old 30th March 2014
  #83
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Although I'm pleased to read about this migration I must say that I'm one of the very lucky ones who has been able to use the PoCo platform form for well over 10 years without much problem. And I'm one of those who also know that so many of their "dated" plugins still are just tops on my list. I'm still running 2 PoCo PCIe cards (newer ones) on my i7 computer along side a UAD Duo and Quad as well as an SSL MX4 card. Lots of extra DSP (although I admit that the i7 doesn't need it). I still can't find plugs to replace: MD3, NonLin2, DRV2 VSS3 or even the Master X3 (now that's old!) and it's funny to see that only "recently" plugins like The Character or the CL1B were released. I'd love to see the newer TC plugs ported to the UAD too though. I'd like to have the MD4 for sure....that being said I'm still making great masterings using the good ol' MD3 in my chain. I guess I'm just happy to see TC still develop plugs instead of just guitar stomp boxes and weird plastic sounding bass amps Looking forward!
Old 31st March 2014
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBoulden View Post
Sonnox themselves did do a very generous cross-grade offer from PoCo to the native plugs which I took advantage of some years ago.
Great, could you point me to the croosgrade offer to the UAD platform for Sonnox native plugins users?

Same plugins, different platform, yet they seem to be expecting me to pay full price again due to their platform change galore.


Can't find that crossgrade offer! Is it findable??



.
Old 31st March 2014
  #85
Gear Head
 
DaveBoulden's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by m127f View Post
Great, could you point me to the croosgrade offer to the UAD platform for Sonnox native plugins users?
I didn't say it was a cross-grade to UAD, I said it was a cross-grade from TC Powercore to Native. It was more an upgrade than a crossgrade, but it involved upgrading to at least the "G3" revisions which used iLok licensing, thus allowing PoCo and Native plugins to be covered by the same iLok license. At the time I think I paid about £40.

Sonnox - PowerCore Support
Old 31st March 2014
  #86
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Still using PowerCore PCIe on 8-core and 12-core Mac Pros with Logic 9 under Snow Leopard and Logic X under Mavericks - both in 64-bit mode via 32 Lives. Works fine. Songs created in 2004 on a G5 with PowerCore PCIx load perfectly into Logic X under Mavericks with all PowerCore plugin settings intact. That's more than I can say for a lot of software-only solutions (cough-N.I.-cough).

I've gotten more than ten years out of these rigs, and I'd happily re-buy MasterX5 for UAD if it happens.
Old 1st April 2014
  #87
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieclouser View Post
Still using PowerCore PCIe on 8-core and 12-core Mac Pros with Logic 9 under Snow Leopard and Logic X under Mavericks - both in 64-bit mode via 32 Lives. Works fine. Songs created in 2004 on a G5 with PowerCore PCIx load perfectly into Logic X under Mavericks with all PowerCore plugin settings intact. That's more than I can say for a lot of software-only solutions (cough-N.I.-cough).

I've gotten more than ten years out of these rigs, and I'd happily re-buy MasterX5 for UAD if it happens.
Hello Charlie,

Can you elaborate a little more on how you got the PCIe cards to work under Mavericks? All other reports from PCIe users state that it doesn't work. If you have found a way around this it would be great if you could share the details!

-GK
Old 1st April 2014
  #88
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Even their free ClassicVerb was one of the best reverb plugins. I used it a lot before I sold my TC card+plugins. I would love to have that one again.
Old 1st April 2014
  #89
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charlieclouser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grassrootking View Post
Hello Charlie,

Can you elaborate a little more on how you got the PCIe cards to work under Mavericks? All other reports from PCIe users state that it doesn't work. If you have found a way around this it would be great if you could share the details!

-GK
Oh ****! You're right - PowerCore PCIe does NOT work in Mavericks. I had just done a quick test of Logic X to see if I liked it (I didn't) and went back to my good old Snow Leopard startup disc. Bummer.

Oh well, I'm still running fine on multiple machines with Snow Leopard and PCIe PowerCores…. but now that I see it's dead for good on Mavericks I'll really be hoping for the UAD version.
Old 1st April 2014
  #90
M2E
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Well, being a user that has bought most of their TDM plugins.
I'm extremely happy that they work great in Pro Tools HD.
I will be moving to Pro Tools 10 HD then I'll be there for a longtime because, let's face it, the best Reverb to me right now is TC's VSS3 and DVR2 and the Eventide Reverb.
I'm extremely happy with my Valhalla Vintage Verb as well. I have a few more but, nothing compares to these.

These are my go toooooooo's.

I just updated my Pro Tools 10 LE system, (I guess that's what you call it now) to Pro Tools 11 and I'll see how my CPU handles this new system but, don't really want to buy Pro Tools 11 HD at all and definitely don't want to buy the UAD PCIe Card system.
I may be interested in the Apollo but, not right now.

I'm use to spending big dollars and seeing it 5 to 7 years later be worth nothing.

1st Music PC - @2,500 with Cubase
2nd Music System was Pro Tools Mix+ 3 with an 888 and with 2 1622's was over 24k
3rd Music System was my trade in to the HD system for 7k.

Not to mention the 100's of Plugins and other Mac's and etc...

Tried of having to do this. It's crazy.

JusMyThoughts...

Marc
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