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SSD's on thunderbolt Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 27th February 2014
  #1
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gussyg2007's Avatar
SSD's on thunderbolt

Is anybody using SSD's hooked up externally to the TB port ?
If so what kind of performance are they getting compared to them being hooked up internally to SATA ?
Old 27th February 2014
  #2
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
You can get 10Gb/s out of TB 1, and 20Gb/s out of TB 2, but that won't speed up your drive at all. Your drive is limited to 3.0Gb/s for SATA II and 6.0Gb/s for SATA III. The biggest problem I find with Thunderbolt is the connector. If you so much as breathe on it, it drops.

USB 3.0 is able to handle 5Mb/s, which is greater than the 3Gb/s you can get out of a SATA II interface. I suppose if you have a SATA III drive, you could exceed what you can get through USB 3.0, but you'd be really pushing it. I would think that to really hit those speeds you would have to be doing something like a bulk copy, and will probably never see that when recording audio. As for me, I just put my SSD in a $15 USB 3.0 case. It works perfectly, even with another 7200RPM sample drive on the same USB bus.
Old 27th February 2014
  #3
Gear Nut
I have Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD inside my Akitio 2 bay thunderbolt enclosure, the read/write speed for a single SSD are 385MB/s / 340MB/s respectively. I also have OWC Extreme Pro 6G 240GB inside my Mac Mini Sever via 6Gb/s SATAIII, the performances (Incompressible) are 460MB/s / 250MB/s read and write respectively.

Every thunderbolt enclosure houses a SATA to PCI converter, that's why a single SSD will not perform as fast as connecting via native SATA and USB 3.0.

However, thunderbolt is beneficial for RAID 0 configuration of two SSDs than USB 3.0 due to the bandwidth of 10 Gb/s and 5 Gb/s.
Old 27th February 2014
  #4
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gussyg2007's Avatar
so usb 3 is the way to go ?
I need it for loading hefty libraries into kontakt
Old 28th February 2014
  #5
Gear Addict
 
madhermit's Avatar
 

I am running my OS on my Mac Mini Server Quad i7 from an external TB drive - Lacie Rugged 256 SSD. No power needed. Original internal drives are now data drives.
There is a free app from Blackmagic that tests data read/write speeds. They are an HD hardware video company, so data throughput is crucial for their products to work.
The Lacie tests consistently at 317MB/s write, and 375 MB/s read. STUPID fast compared to the internals (granted they are 1TB 5400rpm {about 55/55 MB/s read/write})
Also, the Lacie Rugged isn't even a particularly fast SSD drive.
I love it! It has transformed my Mac Mini.

P.S. I have had zero problems with my TB cable/connector. Running for 3 months straight without any issues.
Old 28th February 2014
  #6
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhermit View Post
P.S. I have had zero problems with my TB cable/connector. Running for 3 months straight without any issues.
The connectors are notoriously loose on the MBPR. It may be OK for desktop use, but not on your lap.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4724448
Old 28th February 2014
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
tomaburque's Avatar
 

I know this was not your question, but anytime you use a non-factory installed SSD on a Mac there's an issue you need to be aware of - Trim.

Aftermarket SSD On A MacBook Pro: TRIM Gets Tested - TRIM On A Mac: Only For Apple's OEM SSDs

cindori.org
Old 28th February 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhermit View Post
I am running my OS on my Mac Mini Server Quad i7 from an external TB drive - Lacie Rugged 256 SSD. No power needed. Original internal drives are now data drives.
There is a free app from Blackmagic that tests data read/write speeds. They are an HD hardware video company, so data throughput is crucial for their products to work.
The Lacie tests consistently at 317MB/s write, and 375 MB/s read. STUPID fast compared to the internals (granted they are 1TB 5400rpm {about 55/55 MB/s read/write})
Also, the Lacie Rugged isn't even a particularly fast SSD drive.
I love it! It has transformed my Mac Mini.

P.S. I have had zero problems with my TB cable/connector. Running for 3 months straight without any issues.
good to know
saves all the hassle of installation and keeps your warranty
Old 28th February 2014
  #9
Gear Maniac
Wow, great knowledge about drives everyone !...
I'm in the same position than the op; I want to buy a 1 T ssd thunderbolt (thunderbolt 2, really) to pack it with Kontakt samples and I'm not sure what to get ...
What do you reckon? I'd like to buy the best and fastest option, but I'm not sure what that is ...
Help..?
Old 28th February 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by alemarti View Post
Wow, great knowledge about drives everyone !...
I'm in the same position than the op; I want to buy a 1 T ssd thunderbolt (thunderbolt 2, really) to pack it with Kontakt samples and I'm not sure what to get ...
What do you reckon? I'd like to buy the best and fastest option, but I'm not sure what that is ...
Help..?
is there a definite advantage having an ssd drive for streaming samples ?
i thought the ssd drive was better used as a main OS drive.
just curious
Old 28th February 2014
  #11
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gussyg2007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky View Post
is there a definite advantage having an ssd drive for streaming samples ?
i thought the ssd drive was better used as a main OS drive.
just curious
I use SSD's on my internal SATA for sample streaming, and the speed bump is amazing !
Old 28th February 2014
  #12
Gear Addict
 
madhermit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky View Post
good to know
saves all the hassle of installation and keeps your warranty
Yep.

Also - I activated Trim with an app called Trim Enabler. I believe it is linked in a post above.
Old 28th February 2014
  #13
Gear Addict
 
madhermit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
The connectors are notoriously loose on the MBPR. It may be OK for desktop use, but not on your lap.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4724448
I'm not sure that article supports TB connectors being notoriously bad. 1 guy has a problem that Apple fixes, another guy comments about portable drives in general and says he hasn't even used TB. Only one person has a similar issue. Perhaps it was a bad run of connectors. Mine is snug, and is connected to the OS drive. Any issues and my computer would crash. I have never experienced this. Granted, it does not move around like a laptop would.

Just trying to keep things from getting over stated. All things will have issues of course.
Old 1st March 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
I use SSD's on my internal SATA for sample streaming, and the speed bump is amazing !
Thanks for the clarity
Old 1st March 2014
  #15
Gear Maniac
So ... !
What would you suggest?
Any Thunderbolt case in particular or usb 3?
any SSD in particular?

Come on guys ! Help !!https://static.gearslutz.com/board/im.../nu/tongue.gif
Old 2nd March 2014
  #16
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skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
so usb 3 is the way to go ?
I need it for loading hefty libraries into kontakt
Thunderbolt vs. USB 3.0 in a $500 Thunderbay box - USB is fast (likely fast enough for your needs) but TB may be appreciably faster:

MPG - OWC Thunderbay 4-Bay Thunderbolt Enclosure - Thunderbolt vs USB3 with 6G SSD


Many factors affect real world performance:

• The speed of the “bus” over which data travels.
• The efficiency of the chipset.
• The inherent (or not) overhead of translating from one
protocol to another, e.g., from PCIe or USB3 to SATA.
• Drivers, operation system behavior, chipset used in
the computer itself, other devices on the same bus,
etc.

Thunderbolt might be expected to outperform USB3, but
this is not a given for the above reasons.

Neither the USB3 nor Thunderbolt devices used here
delivers the full native SATA speed for high
performance devices

It is possible that some other Thunderbolt device
optimized for one or two drives/SSDs might achieve
full speed. Or that another implementation or chipset
could perform better. See above points. So this
analysis here is not a statement on what is possible
but rather that premises about performance should be
checked by actual testing.

Old 6th March 2014
  #17
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaburque View Post
I know this was not your question, but anytime you use a non-factory installed SSD on a Mac there's an issue you need to be aware of - Trim.

Aftermarket SSD On A MacBook Pro: TRIM Gets Tested - TRIM On A Mac: Only For Apple's OEM SSDs

cindori.org
Hey Thx for this
Turns out trim is a very important ,seems to of sorted out all of my SSD issues
Old 6th March 2014
  #18
Lives for gear
 

I have some on a 2012 imac and they work fine but not as fast as internal by any means. Still in the real world it is good performance compared to even the fastest regular drives.
Old 6th March 2014
  #19
Here for the gear
 

Just a few FYI's...

You can not currently enable TRIM on external TB attached drives, to the best of my knowledge.

Next up - either thru Thunderbolt or USB3 you will not compete with the internal SATA3/PCIe interfaces. While you can get great thru put you'll get additional latency by going thru those interfaces [compared to the internal drive interface].

Either solution will work for you [USB/Thunderbolt] - it's simply comes down to how much you really want to spend.

Here is a 'fair' article about the two...

Thunderbolt vs. USB 3.0: The Definitive Showdown

And here is a general article about most external storage interfaces...

Everything You Need To Know About Thunderbolt - Thunderbolt Finds Its Way To PCs

R_
Old 6th March 2014
  #20
Gear Addict
 
madhermit's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=Raventhornn;9916808]Just a few FYI's...

You can not currently enable TRIM on external TB attached drives, to the best of my knowledge.

(In a friendly voice…) I did. Trim Enabler let me enable Trim on my external Lacie Rugged drive.
Old 6th March 2014
  #21
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skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raventhornn View Post
You can not currently enable TRIM on external TB attached drives, to the best of my knowledge.
Sure you can, with a free utility like Trim Enabler.
Old 6th March 2014
  #22
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
Sure you can, with a free utility like Trim Enabler.
I stand corrected, with regards single external drives.

Hadn't looking into the software for a while, and last time I used it external drives had issues with passing TRIM commands thru the interface [as in OSX wouldn't].

Glad to see that addressed, and if anyone can find definitive documentation about enabling TRIM on external TB RAID enclosures, please PM me.

Thanks
Raventhornn
Old 7th March 2014
  #23
Gear Head
I've recently set up my nMP with a Promise j4 with three 1 TB Crucial M500 drives as a RAID0 array, used for samples (Kontakt, EastWest, Spectrasonics and Superior Drummer, mainly) and some movie files. It's REALLY fast - tests at over 800 MB/s read and write. The net effect is virtually instantaneous loading of small and mid-sized sample sets (e.g., Omnisphere, SDII, Kontakt) - it's great for quick auditioning and general workflow.

Obviously backup is key with RAID0 - both Time Machine and scheduled backups to external disks via USB3. Others have reported issues with the J4 and large SSDs but so far so good in my case.
Old 7th March 2014
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
thedomus's Avatar
Do you notice the fan noise from the Promise J4?
Old 7th March 2014
  #25
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by flwehr View Post
I've recently set up my nMP with a Promise j4 with three 1 TB Crucial M500 drives as a RAID0 array, used for samples (Kontakt, EastWest, Spectrasonics and Superior Drummer, mainly) and some movie files. It's REALLY fast - tests at over 800 MB/s read and write. The net effect is virtually instantaneous loading of small and mid-sized sample sets (e.g., Omnisphere, SDII, Kontakt) - it's great for quick auditioning and general workflow.

Obviously backup is key with RAID0 - both Time Machine and scheduled backups to external disks via USB3. Others have reported issues with the J4 and large SSDs but so far so good in my case.

J4 supports Crucial M500 960GB SSD? I have read that J4 does not support large capacity SSD
Old 7th March 2014
  #26
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by holywilly View Post
J4 supports Crucial M500 960GB SSD? I have read that J4 does not support large capacity SSD
That's true - some people have reported problems with large sized SSDs. I bought the hardware before I was aware of these problems, and after hearing about the power supply issues, installed only three drives instead of four. Certainly not recommending this setup for others given the reports, but so far no issues for me. It's really fast.
Old 7th March 2014
  #27
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedomus View Post
Do you notice the fan noise from the Promise J4?
No, it's very quiet relative to other external drives (also is in a cabinet).
Old 7th March 2014
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by flwehr View Post
I've recently set up my nMP with a Promise j4 with three 1 TB Crucial M500 drives as a RAID0 array, used for samples (Kontakt, EastWest, Spectrasonics and Superior Drummer, mainly) and some movie files. It's REALLY fast - tests at over 800 MB/s read and write.
Which means it does half of what SATA brings. Is that a TB bottleneck or the Promise?
Old 7th March 2014
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Which means it does half of what SATA brings. Is that a TB bottleneck or the Promise?
800mb/s? Pass me that bottle then. I'll take a drink...
Old 7th March 2014
  #30
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Which means it does half of what SATA brings. Is that a TB bottleneck or the Promise?
The Promise performance with SSDs is documented pretty well here. I'm getting comparable results to what Lloyd shows with three drives, which appears to be pretty close to the max it can deliver. No idea whether it is bottlenecked by Thunderbolt or the J4 but it is nearly as fast as the internal PCIe drive.
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