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Snow Leopard vs Maverick, that is the question
Old 6th January 2014 | Show parent
  #61
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🎧 10 years
I totally agree with the suggestion to install the new OS on a second drive. Even doing a fresh install and then migrating settings and apps is cleaner than doing an upgrade, plus the previous OS is left intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
That may very well be true for the OP (perhaps not if he thinks about it) but I responded to your claim that "Not a single feature of OS X 10.9 makes it a better choice for professional audio recording." And that's not true.
What specifically is new to 10.9? 64 bit support has been working for years in 10.6. And 10.9 does increase maximum ram but 10.8 already allowed 96 and I doubt many audio folks needed to go beyond that.

Maybe Logic or other apps will run better on 10.9 but I haven't seen much of anything backing that up. A few features seem like they could have some potential improvements for audio apps but users will have to test and compare to see what's really going on.


Personally if I was still on 10.6 and sticking with Logic 9 I would stay.

If I was going to move up for Logic X or bought a machine that was on an OS newer than 10.6 I would probably go up to 10.9 unless I knew I had software that wasn't compatible yet. I have yet to see any of the newer OSX versions as an improvement over 10.6 but I think 10.9 is better than either .7 or .8.
Old 6th January 2014 | Show parent
  #62
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cinealta's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Connelly View Post
I have yet to see any of the newer OSX versions as an improvement over 10.6 but I think 10.9 is better than either .7 or .8.
What do you like about Mavericks (10.9), specifically for pro audio, over Mountain Lion (10.8.5)?
Old 7th January 2014 | Show parent
  #63
Tui
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFW View Post
I'm genuinely intrigued by this comment and wondering if you could expand on it / explain why this is / if there is some hard evidence supporting? I haven't heard this before and would love to know why this is the case with Macs / OSX?
It is just something that has become apparent over the years. Officially, an older machine may still be supported by a newer OS, however, in practice it's not always entirely true. The new OS might seem unstable, slow, or strange bugs may pop up. One possible explanation - to me the most likely one - is with Apple being Apple, they're constantly and obsessively focussed on the "next big thing". They have a reputation for throwing anything and anybody that smells of "legacy" under the bus. In short, they don't go out of their way to carry old stuff wih them into the future.
Old 7th January 2014
  #64
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aero's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
SL...Unfortunately I see more and more developers asking 10.7 as a minimum requirement, so sooner or later you'll have to jump ship and upgrade .. in which case I'd skip Lion and go mountain lion or mavericks
Old 7th January 2014 | Show parent
  #65
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junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
To be fair, (aside from my problem upgrading) I've never had any trouble with Lion or Mountain Lion. And, since I use the same machine for everything else I do, I like a lot of the new functionality built into the newer operating systems. And, as soon as all of my apps are Mavericks compatible, I'll make the switch to it.
Old 8th January 2014
  #66
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Sorry if this seems dumb but I'd rather ask a dumb question than spend hours trying to fix my computer.

So if I have a time machine backup will that be able to restore my system as it was before upgrading to Mavericks. So if I run the upgrade and things don't work that should cover me right?
Old 8th January 2014 | Show parent
  #67
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aero View Post
I see more and more developers asking 10.7 as a minimum requirement
Mainly I think because Xcode 5.0 (released last summer) requires it, using frameworks in Lion and later.
Old 8th January 2014 | Show parent
  #68
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junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobsworth View Post
Sorry if this seems dumb but I'd rather ask a dumb question than spend hours trying to fix my computer.

So if I have a time machine backup will that be able to restore my system as it was before upgrading to Mavericks. So if I run the upgrade and things don't work that should cover me right?
Not dumb at all, IMO. I have a Time Machine backup, but I never use it. Instead, I prefer backing up important docs and preferences to a flash drive, then installing everything from scratch after a clean install. I like the idea of using Carbon Copy Cloner to make a clone of my drive. Then, if I need to transfer anything, I can simply copy it over from the clone. Or, if you want to go back to your previous install, you can restore it from the clone.

Time Machine seems like a really good way to backup documents but with the problems I was having with WiFi and my keychain, I didn't want it to inadvertently harm my clean install. Like I said before, if you back up your docs, export your contacts/email/calendars/photos/music/movies, backup your app preferences and use a combination of apps (like 1Password, Dropbox and Carbon Copy Cloner) clean installs can be safe and pretty easy. Good luck!
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #69
Tui
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobsworth View Post
Sorry if this seems dumb but I'd rather ask a dumb question than spend hours trying to fix my computer.

So if I have a time machine backup will that be able to restore my system as it was before upgrading to Mavericks. So if I run the upgrade and things don't work that should cover me right?
Use Disk Utility to clone your System drive to an external drive. Install all updates you want to try out on the cloned drive. Once you're satisfied that everything works, backup your System drive and install your updates on the System drive.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #70
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junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Use Disk Utility to clone your System drive to an external drive. Install all updates you want to try out on the cloned drive. Once you're satisfied that everything works, backup your System drive and install your updates on the System drive.
Will Disk Utility preserve the Apple HD Recovery partition or destroy it?
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #71
Tui
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Will Disk Utility preserve the Apple HD Recovery partition or destroy it?
It will be preserved. You'll see a new recovery partition on every clone you make.

Disk Utility, of course, is also a brilliant maintenance tool. I'm surprised only few people seem to make use of it.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #72
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junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Disk Utility, of course, is also a brilliant maintenance tool. I'm surprised only few people seem to make use of it.
Agreed… I use it all the time, just not for backing up my computer. I like CCC much more for that. DU doesn't do a lot of things like incremental backups, etc. Didn't know it preserved the recovery partition, though. I'll have to check that out..
Old 9th January 2014
  #73
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che_guitarra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm on this boat too. I've just downloaded Mavericks but have my Snow Leopard drive cloned should I want to revert. In terms of presentation Mavericks appears the same as SL, with a few extra nifty features, but also a lot of extra bloat that I don't want on an platform such as iCloud and social media integration, undeletable apps, and an unhideable notification bar amongst other things.

I'd be happy to keep up Mavericks (i'm going to have to jump ship from 10.6.8 sooner or later), but my bigger concern is the hurdle of upgrading to PT11. It's literally going to cost me thousands of dollars to upgrade to a 10.9/PT11 system, and all costs can be 100% attributed to Protools. I think it's time to investigate other sequencers.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #74
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cinealta's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
I think it's time to investigate other sequencers.
Logic Pro X.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #75
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junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
I'd be happy to keep up Mavericks (i'm going to have to jump ship from 10.6.8 sooner or later), but my bigger concern is the hurdle of upgrading to PT11. It's literally going to cost me thousands of dollars to upgrade to a 10.9/PT11 system, and all costs can be 100% attributed to Protools. I think it's time to investigate other sequencers.
Ouch!
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #76
Tui
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
an unhideable notification bar
You can use OnyX (/Parameters/Finder/Notification Center) to turn off notifications altogether.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #77
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
my bigger concern is the hurdle of upgrading to PT11. It's literally going to cost me thousands of dollars to upgrade to a 10.9/PT11 system, and all costs can be 100% attributed to Protools. I think it's time to investigate other sequencers.
If you're considering spending thousands for an upgrade you also need to consider the financial health of the company: there's the issue of Avid's revelation last year that its 2009-2011 financials can no longer be consider reliable, their refusal to post financials for more than a year in contravention of NASDAQ rules and federal law (they claim they are spending all this time correcting their books), and analysis that based on the last financials that there is a likelihood of bankruptcy by this time next year.
Old 9th January 2014
  #78
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che_guitarra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've thought of this, and it is an uncertainty well needing consideration. Even if Avid are forced into bankruptcy I can't see Protools disappearing off the face of the earth - it'll be acquired by another entity and live on under new ownership.
Old 9th January 2014
  #79
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Likely, but with what level of R&D and support?
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #80
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
I've thought of this, and it is an uncertainty well needing consideration. Even if Avid are forced into bankruptcy I can't see Protools disappearing off the face of the earth - it'll be acquired by another entity and live on under new ownership.
Assuming it's an entity with an interest in its survival. If, say, Apple bought the technology either to bolster its own customer base or stop a competitor from eating into Logic, it's probably not going to end well for a significant number of customers (and possibly all of them – as software has a habit of going missing once it enters Infinite Loop).
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #81
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Zoolook's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
I've thought of this, and it is an uncertainty well needing consideration. Even if Avid are forced into bankruptcy I can't see Protools disappearing off the face of the earth - it'll be acquired by another entity and live on under new ownership.
Google will buy it, and make it free... it will just automatically insert ads into any recorded lyrics

"She stole my heart... yeah yeah yeah
[Geico... we'll save you 15% or more on car insurance, peace of mind if the worst happens to your vehicle]
... she tore me apart... boobedoowah wah wah
[never be apart from your friends with Google plus...]

...Chorus..."

Etc... actually it could work!
Old 9th January 2014
  #82
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
IF it not broken Don't F*** with it is prob the best thing I would say !

I Upgrade my curent spec i5 2.5 mac mini 4 gig ram to mavericks Nothing but problems

why does my quad core G5 piss all over it 10 year newer mac mini (and its meant to be 10x faster)

Mavericks hang like hell on internet !!!

Crashes all the time with dual screens if one app is full screen you can access dock on other (That meant to be mac big thing muti screens)

if you switch sec on monitor on log in screen crash !!!!

I use 4 bay raid 5 Nas and have f*** on internal drive if i don't shut down nas first mac will not power down and crash/loop when sleep or power down

I am going to try clean install !
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #83
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
Likely, but with what level of R&D and support?
Funny, when I read this comment the first thing that popped into my mind was Sibelius.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #84
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
...analysis that based on the last financials that there is a likelihood of bankruptcy by this time next year.
While I agree that the health of the company is something to be concerned about, that website has a ton of companies listed with 40, 50 percent and higher chances of bankruptcy including ones I know are doing fine. Hard to take their predictions too seriously.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by che_guitarra View Post
I've thought of this, and it is an uncertainty well needing consideration. Even if Avid are forced into bankruptcy I can't see Protools disappearing off the face of the earth - it'll be acquired by another entity and live on under new ownership.
If you keep using your current system with 10.6.8 for another year or two you will very likely be able to make a better decision about Avid in the future. Considering that the upcoming version of Logic will be sandboxed it is only a matter of time until third party developers are required to sandbox their applications for the latest and greatest OS X as well and that is not going to be easy for a company in financial distress.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #86
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junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emearg_s View Post
I am going to try clean install !
Sorry to hear about the issues. Let us know if a clean install improves things - I know it did for me… Good luck!
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #87
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skira's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Connelly View Post
While I agree that the health of the company is something to be concerned about, that website has a ton of companies listed with 40, 50 percent and higher chances of bankruptcy including ones I know are doing fine. Hard to take their predictions too seriously.
For public companies they are merely applying a Z-Score, which is a weighted formula based on public financial statements. It has been around since 1968 and has been found to be around 70% accurate in predicting corporate bankruptcies within two years. The Z-score formula is public and it's accuracy has been tested with historical financial data of thousands of companies over various periods of time, so you can take the score seriously.
Old 9th January 2014 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
For public companies they are merely applying a Z-Score, which is a weighted formula based on public financial statements. It has been around since 1968 and has been found to be around 70% accurate in predicting corporate bankruptcies within two years. The Z-score formula is public and it's accuracy has been tested with historical financial data of thousands of companies over various periods of time, so you can take the score seriously.
Even more of a reason to stick with a trouble free older OS X for the moment than to start investing in updates at this points. ProTools will remain a hot commodity regardless of Avid's problems and is an attractive product for many suitable buyers.
Unless of course ProTools is the main reason for Avid's financial trouble because everyone is sticking with an older system that works rather than updating.
Old 30th April 2014 | Show parent
  #89
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cowboycoalminer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Yeah, pretty much what NoVi and others have said. FWIW, it IS a pain in the ass but I didn't have a choice. However, a little preparation can make the transition a lot easier.

For me, two applications were lifesavers: Dropbox and 1Password. I have all of my registration info and passwords for all my software loaded in 1Password and I keep the master file synced on Dropbox. They make reinstalling stuff a lot easier.

First, I'd download all my current software installers and make sure they're compatible with the destination OS. I put mine on a 16GB flash drive. Then, I'd backup the important application files in Macintosh HD/Library/ and Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/. I'd also go into Contacts to export all my contacts, Mail to export all my email, Calendars to export my calendars, etc. I'd copy these to the flash drive as well. And, finally I'd do a backup with Time Machine AND Carbon Copy Cloner! I used the CCC backup to retrieve big stuff like my iTunes and iPhoto libraries.

Next, it's time to make a bootable install drive. Here's an easy how-to for Mavericks: Clean Install Os X Mavericks Via Bootable Flash Drive

And finally, clean installing the OS and re-installing all the apps and documents. This part was the most time-consuming but in the end I have a fresh lean system without the remnants of past operating systems and orphaned applications/demos, etc. Good luck!
Very helpful and a great idea. I'm going to do this as well.
Old 1st May 2014
  #90
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I'm in exactly the same position. I'm on sl and have been for years and am very comfortable with it. I'm going to have to fully migrate though as all my sequencers are now 10.7 and up - but every time I've done this it's been about 6 months till I'm on my feet.
This time I'm going to do a ccc and I'll change back if there's an issue but really I've just gotta do it.
This is really dumb I know - I was under the impression that you could have multiple os on the same hdd as long as they're on a different partition - like they're self contained. But I run sl and ml and it's not workable. I can't seem to install multiple copies of plugins for example. Lot less flexible than I thought
Amazing running into this thread - I'm on an I 7 so it'll be able to take it - has anyone got any tips before I start this?
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