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Snow Leopard vs Maverick, that is the question
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Good View Post
That may very well be true for some but the OP specified his preference for a 32-bit setup.
That may very well be true for the OP (perhaps not if he thinks about it) but I responded to your claim that "Not a single feature of OS X 10.9 makes it a better choice for professional audio recording." And that's not true.
Old 4th January 2014
  #32
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I too have learned my lesson with 2 upgrades that took me out for weeks at a time. I wasn't very diligent back then.
Now I'm on snow lep but have a ml partition - and that's something I'd suggest to anyone looking to upgrade to a new os. If your stable and comfortable why upgrade? What's the point? Only if your fav software won't run sure but like one of the other posters I've updated all my plugs that where supposed to be 10.7 and above no problems.
Why introduce a free radical to a stable system?
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
That may very well be true for the OP (perhaps not if he thinks about it) but I responded to your claim that "Not a single feature of OS X 10.9 makes it a better choice for professional audio recording." And that's not true.
You have left out the essential point in your 'quote' of my 'claim':

"Not a single feature of OS X 10.9 makes it a better choice for professional audio recording if you are happy with 32-bit software."
Old 4th January 2014
  #34
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FFTT's Avatar
 

It took me from 1998 to 2010 to get to a dad gum trouble free system with
my MBP Quad, 7200 RPM HD, 8 GB RAM, 64 Bit Operation, Logic Studio 9
in 10.6.8 with all current updates.

I'm not budging! Not until I have to.

Plugins don't mean squat, I'm tracking as much real as I can, because I can without volume restrictions.

The Logic FX & Sound File Suite and Soundtrack Pro give me more options than I could ever hope for or need.

I need to find a copy of Final Cut Pro for Snow Leopard eventually.

The only way I'm gonna really improve the sounds I'm getting now is to
break down and buy a real snare and hi hat and mic them.

All I wanted was a multi-track tape recorder. That I have.

If what I'm tracking doesn't sound good going in, no amount of digital lipstick
is going to improve it.
Old 4th January 2014
  #35
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lestermagneto's Avatar
so again, what does maverick or mountain lion give/do that 10.6.8 does not except the ability to run logic x in terms of audio production? not asking to be snarky, but for real…. I have a 8core 2009 power tower, running 10.6.8…. stable as hell…. using an apogee ensemble as i/o… etc… someone mentioned it improves latency…. how? Again, i have no need for "social" apps running on my audio machine, and stay off line excepting updates and the occasional work related upload… (cause I do find that my DAW is a lot more efficient with the airport OFF etc)...
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #36
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Far too many people either don't care or are clueless how much data is leaving
their system due to internet tracking servers, especially Google, but another 120+++ companies who make money off of tracking everything you do, everywhere you go and everything you say online.

I'm using Little Snitch and put a screeching halt to most of it.

Places like Google not only want to connect to track what you're doing online,
they set up a streaming connection on your ports if you allow it by default.

I also use Ghostery and Do Not Track Me.

I'm on 4G wifi as my only internet connection and blocking those tracking
server connections has cut my monthly bandwidth usage in half.

Like 4-6 GB of outgoing tracking BS per month.

My system is not labored running Logic, but if you're trying to trim demand
on you system, offline is best.
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #37
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Far too many people either don't care or are clueless how much data is leaving
their system due to internet tracking servers, especially Google, but another 120+++ companies who make money off of tracking everything you do, everywhere you go and everything you say online.

I'm using Little Snitch and put a screeching halt to most of it.

Places like Google not only want to connect to track what you're doing online,
they set up a streaming connection on your ports if you allow it by default.
True. I used to use Little Snitch but switched to Hands Off a few years ago. Great little app that handles everything LS does plus a few extras…
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Mavericks is actually brilliant for audio. Latencies are much reduced (which, for me, is a big selling point). Whether or not this is also the case with older machines I don't know... It's worth a try, I guess.
anyway to proof that latencies thing? how did you measure etc....
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #39
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Cool, always helps to have a good personal firewall!
Old 4th January 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Good View Post
You have left out the essential point in your 'quote' of my 'claim':
Not at all, I quoted it in my reply to you. But I explained the reason for my reply in my 2nd post.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #41
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartosz Idzi View Post
anyway to proof that latencies thing? how did you measure etc....
It is something I noticed right away after installing Mavericks. I frequently practise, using large piano and drum libraries. In Kontakt and Logic, I can reduce buffer sizes to half or less of that under 10.8 without the audio breaking up.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
It is something I noticed right away after installing Mavericks. I frequently practise, using large piano and drum libraries. In Kontakt and Logic, I can reduce buffer sizes to half or less of that under 10.8 without the audio breaking up.
that's interesting but in no way scientific for the rest of us to check.

and your mac/soundcard is?


anybody else with the same experience?
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #43
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartosz Idzi View Post
that's interesting but in no way scientific for the rest of us to check.

and your mac/soundcard is?
Scientific? How about "experience"?

I use a current Mac mini server 2.6 hooked up to a RME Digiface via a Sonnet PCIe Thunderbolt chassis.
Old 5th January 2014
  #44
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ABBA's Avatar
Wonderful!
Thank you everyone.
Snow Leopard it shall be.
Old 5th January 2014
  #45
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kelvyn's Avatar
I was terrified to upgrade from SL to Mavericks... But the fact that some developers are only releasing ML/Mavericks software now, forced my hand. I backed everything up and went for it. SL to Mavericks and Logic 9 to X, and to my great surprise it all went very smoothly as I only had to update a couple of non Maverick apps and a couple of plugins. I also purchased 32 Lives 64bit bridge which works like a dream.
I really like Logic X and haven't missed 9 at all. I have had a couple of crashes (aprox 4) but nothing serious and Logic saved the session each time before going down. I found it easy to get used to the new features after spending a day or two going over the manual and trying things out. All in all it's been a positive experience... But! I"m really glad I waited until now before upgrading.
As for Mavericks as OS, can't say I have noticed a big difference since I'm not a power user and only use my studio iMac for music and my laptop for internet and emails.

I'm using a ton of plugins (Waves, Soundtoys, Softube, Fab Filter etc etc) Imac i7, RME UFX interface.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Scientific? How about "experience"?

I use a current Mac mini server 2.6 hooked up to a RME Digiface via a Sonnet PCIe Thunderbolt chassis.
When i mean scientific, i mean gathering all the data and measuring things so we can get reliable information to share.
i guess if you can go with lower latency than in 10.8, thats good. i assume it's the same rme driver? also, the thunderbolt chassis thing may work better with 10.9. Updated drivers. That may be the culprit. Anyway, God Speed!
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #47
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartosz Idzi View Post
i guess if you can go with lower latency than in 10.8, thats good. i assume it's the same rme driver?
Yup, same driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartosz Idzi View Post
also, the thunderbolt chassis thing may work better with 10.9. Updated drivers. That may be the culprit.
That's quite possible. Whatever Apple did with Mavericks and audio, they did it well - finally. I was getting a little tired of Windows folk bragging about low latencies with their machines. I guess performance might be more comparable now. Indeed, this is worthy of scientific study.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn View Post
I was terrified to upgrade from SL to Mavericks... But the fact that some developers are only releasing ML/Mavericks software now, forced my hand. I backed everything up and went for it. SL to Mavericks and Logic 9 to X, and to my great surprise it all went very smoothly as I only had to update a couple of non Maverick apps and a couple of plugins. I also purchased 32 Lives 64bit bridge which works like a dream.
I really like Logic X and haven't missed 9 at all. I have had a couple of crashes (aprox 4) but nothing serious and Logic saved the session each time before going down. I found it easy to get used to the new features after spending a day or two going over the manual and trying things out. All in all it's been a positive experience... But! I"m really glad I waited until now before upgrading.
As for Mavericks as OS, can't say I have noticed a big difference since I'm not a power user and only use my studio iMac for music and my laptop for internet and emails.

I'm using a ton of plugins (Waves, Soundtoys, Softube, Fab Filter etc etc) Imac i7, RME UFX interface.

this has been pretty much my experience as well.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Yeah, pretty much what NoVi and others have said. FWIW, it IS a pain in the ass but I didn't have a choice. However, a little preparation can make the transition a lot easier.
...
And finally, clean installing the OS and re-installing all the apps and documents. This part was the most time-consuming but in the end I have a fresh lean system without the remnants of past operating systems and orphaned applications/demos, etc. Good luck!
Did you think this improves the computers performance or is just neater from a user perspective having less old files.

I've been updating without a clean install for maybe 4-5 versions of OSX now and am not sure if it's affecting performance.
Old 5th January 2014
  #50
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Zoolook's Avatar
I wasn't having any issue with Mavericks until recently. I am now getting a crash in Logic when using Kontakt with this error

free list canary is damaged

Looking this up, it seems a lot of people have this issue in Mavericks, not only with Logic but other professional applications. I didn't have this issue in Mountain Lion or Lion, or Snow Leopard.

Rebooting makes the issue go away, but once it's happened it will just keep occurring multiple times very quickly. Sometimes every few minutes if you're loading and removing Kontakt instruments.

I don't have a solution, but if anyone has one, I'd be happy to hear.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #51
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I've read some people having issues with Mavericks due to ram caching. They're finding that with big templates and lots of Kontakt Instruments, the project starts off fine but over time, their ram usage goes up even when they're not doing anything.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
I've read some people having issues with Mavericks due to ram caching. They're finding that with big templates and lots of Kontakt Instruments, the project starts off fine but over time, their ram usage goes up even when they're not doing anything.
I'm not using Mavericks with my audio programs, but I'm definitely having memory issues with Mavericks on a late 2011 MBP with 16G of RAM. The thing is, everyone will say "Mavericks will optimally use all available RAM so seeing your RAM fill up on a memory utilty meter with only one app running is not a meaningful thing". But 10.9 is obviously NOT doing great things with memory. I'm having issues with programs, mostly graphics but others as well, where they perform better with a healthy amount of RAM (caching, temp files, all that) and they are they're the 10.9 compatable versions of the software, and they gradually behave like they're need more than I have, which was never the case previously. When I go to their support forums I see loads of posts about 10.9 memory issues.

I have no doubt that the people having issues with large instrument sessions in Mavericks are not pointing the blame at the wrong place. Likely that Mavericks' touted memory compression, which is supposed to make more efficient use of RAM, is the culprit and simply not ready for prime time, as are some other aspects of the OS.
Old 5th January 2014 | Show parent
  #53
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobsworth View Post
Did you think this improves the computers performance or is just neater from a user perspective having less old files.

I've been updating without a clean install for maybe 4-5 versions of OSX now and am not sure if it's affecting performance.
That's pretty much what I was doing until I had the problem with the ML update from Lion. I don't know if there's any performance difference (probably very little if any). But, there are a few advantages:
  • First off, yeah things are a little neater and my system footprint is a little smaller in terms of size.
  • Second, I was having problems with Airplay screen mirroring to my AppleTV / HDTV. Since doing the clean install, it's been running pretty smooth. Great feature if you have an AppleTV, BTW!
  • Another advantage is I can now reinstall a few demos whose trial periods had expired. Couple of things I wanted to try but ran out of time on.

That's about all I can think of at the moment...
Old 6th January 2014
  #54
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lestermagneto's Avatar
I used to do it more often, but with all the installs and hassle, and generally trying to keep a pretty clean system, I only do a clean install now with a new machine in the studio or whatever …(but it's been since late 09 for me…so it is getting a little long in the tooth)… any other anecdotal or real rules to this now other members have experienced of late?
Old 6th January 2014
  #55
Gear Addict
 

Look at it this way:
Since 10.6.8 every major update introduced over 200 new features according to Apple. That means there are over 600 new features in Mavericks that 10.6.8 is lacking. How many of these 600 features were developed for the professional audio community? Of course Mavericks support 64-bit but are there any other features for audio pros wo can do their work with 32-bit software that is mature and trouble free? The system updates were not aimed at the professional creative community but the main focus was on the average consumer who is desiring an operating system that integrates with their mobile iOS lifestyle.

Last edited by J.Good; 6th January 2014 at 04:00 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 6th January 2014
  #56
Snow Leopard works at 64bit with the option to run 32bit programmes. I am working in Logic and Studio One at 64bit with no problems, so Mavericks is not offering anything that I need as far as audio is concerned. The 600 new features that Mavericks would supposedly introduce are also 600 new oportunities to add new bugs and incompatibilities to my system which I don't really need.
Old 6th January 2014 | Show parent
  #57
MFW
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Snowy, definitely. For a general rule of thumb, it's best to use a Mac OS that was made at the same time as the machine it's running on, or perhaps one generation after.
I'm genuinely intrigued by this comment and wondering if you could expand on it / explain why this is / if there is some hard evidence supporting? I haven't heard this before and would love to know why this is the case with Macs / OSX?
Old 6th January 2014 | Show parent
  #58
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFW View Post
I'm genuinely intrigued by this comment and wondering if you could expand on it / explain why this is / if there is some hard evidence supporting? I haven't heard this before and would love to know why this is the case with Macs / OSX?
Each generation of OSX has updated, or improved, drivers for one. For instance, if your Mac shipped with a graphics card the OSX it ships with will have drivers for that card. If you roll the OSX back to a previous version it may not contain the drivers for that hardware. Often drivers are improved or given additional capability in coordination with OSX features. This is just one example of why to use, at least, the OSX which shipped with one's Mac.
Old 6th January 2014 | Show parent
  #59
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFW View Post
I'm genuinely intrigued by this comment and wondering if you could expand on it / explain why this is / if there is some hard evidence supporting? I haven't heard this before and would love to know why this is the case with Macs / OSX?
Some of that stuff is generalities especially related to the PPC to Intel Switch.
The main thing with any computer is when the software upgrades are no longer
supporting the older hardware. It's not that the hardware can't function just fine with period correct applications.

Eventually dual processors may no longer be supported and then everything will
be multi-core.

Right now, Snow Leopard and Logic Studio 9 are very stable and a bunch of 3rd party drivers and hardware manufacturers all still support Snow Leopard and computers that still have FireWire.

Right now everyone is in a big scramble to be Thunderbolt Compliant and FireWire is on the outs.

As I mentioned above, it took me 3 computer systems and a lot of money
to get to a really stable working system. I'm not budging.
Old 6th January 2014 | Show parent
  #60
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lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
As I mentioned above, it took me 3 computer systems and a lot of money
to get to a really stable working system. I'm not budging.
I'm in the same camp with FFTT here, seems those magical 200 new features in every upgrade has more to do with things like "Spaces" and "iMessage" and "iCloud" etc… nothing that impacts me in an audio sense, and I subscribe to the Eno school of thought in that I don't like even phones in the studio with me. Focus on the matter at hand….

But I heard someone above mention that audio latency was improved, I know Lion/Vista introduced some disasters that were later fixed in Mt Lion…. With my ensemble etc, will i experience better/less latency then I do on 10.6.8 on my late 2009 dual 8 core tower? They have optimized that? That on the other hand, might push my hand…. but with an eye to stability, I am staying on 10.6.8. until I buy a new machine next year or whenever and it won't support it….
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