The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Potential audio problem with new iMacs
Old 30th November 2013
  #241
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

spoke to soon

total garbage again

this time in logic 7.0.4! selected apogee and just got garbled audio!

i have no idea what else to do now, i cant do any music at all. not one way of working works with the new mac's and apogee. i also wasted 300 bucks because they suggested the matrox box was rock solid. doesnt work at all here and of course i cant upload it to apogee in the ticket so hopefully don or someone from there will read this and see it


good luck to everyone, if RME or anyone else is working ok i may be selling this symphony and going to someone else soon
Old 30th November 2013
  #242
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
I've been sticking with RME for well over a decade - never a problem. Solid as a rock.

Sonically, though, I think there are better alternatives. For AD, I use Apogee, for DA Ross Martin.
Old 30th November 2013
  #243
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

anything is better if it works

a month now and i cant work
Old 1st December 2013
  #244
Gear Addict
 
Night Stalker's Avatar
 

Trock,

I feel you pain. I was a first time buyer of a new mac platform the "G3" way back many many years ago as soon at it was released. Boy did I learn my lesson because I lost 8-9 months as there were issues that both apple and the AI/midi interface dev were passing the buck. The young tech salesman lost his job at the pro audio shop that I bought the complete audio recording package from. The poor guy was not to blame as in the end it was an issue with apple and some updates were needed for the midi to sync properly.

I am sure you situation will be resolved shortly as there is a growing community that is having similar problems, so just be patient and try to find a work around with another comp or whatever you can get your hands on in the meantime.
Old 1st December 2013
  #245
Lives for gear
 
NoVi's Avatar
Makes you wonder what lies around the corner with the upcoming new MacPro's...
Old 1st December 2013
  #246
Gear Addict
 
Night Stalker's Avatar
 

trock,

Have you cloned your internal drive and boot up your iMac with an external bootable drive?
Old 1st December 2013
  #247
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

I agree, i was actually thinking about the new Mac Pro's, if the apogee's have the same issues with those USB ports or TB ports thru something like the matrox that is going to be devastating.

i have always had mac pro's and this time because of how powerful the Imac's are now (for me a song writer) and the fact i am leery to buy a brand new design of anything the first release( think cars to) i went with what i thought was a tried and true setup with the Imac

something has radically changed thats for sure and if the mac pro's have the same ports then there is going to be one heck of a train wreck. but i have no idea if this is true

also, no i havent tried it on an external drive because i sent the first one back with the fusion drive that def had issues and got the new internal SSD drive that alot of people said they were fine with.

i also dont know how to do that and at this point having tried so many things i am loathe to do something i dont know how to do

i am going to sit tight now for a week or so and work with apogee to try and figure it out

they keep telling me they are waiting on apple. so hopefully they have a good relationship with them and can fix this pretty quickly

if not i will start a new thread and try and figure out who is working with these new mac's via USB 2 ports or the TB ports without issue? RME, SSL, whoever

i had an FF 800 for years and i just remember that either on a PC or MAC i actually never thought about it cause it just worked

i also have a yamaha N12 that if worse comes to worse i will hook back up with an adapter and see how it goes (its not ready for mavericks yet so i cant try it now)

i just feel totally let down that you go with something liek apogee and you think because they are only apple that they would be the ones leading the way with stability and operability

i really didnt think a new Imac would throw them
Old 2nd December 2013
  #248
Gear Addict
 
Night Stalker's Avatar
 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...t=540&tstart=0

This thread is the best one to latch onto as it appears to be more then one issue so going through all the possibilities to find your actual cause is the important path. It has over 40 pages so go from the start and you will see many people have your and other issues and some workarounds have been found until the fix comes to light.

best of luck
Old 2nd December 2013
  #249
Here for the gear
 

So I just got back from a business trip and followed the directions Apogee Support had sent in the meantime, none of that is working (usual stuff like SMC reset, reinstall drivers etc).

I also dug out another USB2.0 hub, that still doesn't work.

Looking into this deeper I am wondering if there is a bug in the AppleUSBAudioEngine.cpp and AppleUSBAudioStream.cpp code. They are spitting out debug errors around the sections that deal with clock setup and audio streaming.

My gut instinct is a clocking issue. There is no detailed clocking information built into the USB protocol so usually it's up to the interface to do clock recovery based on USB frames. I don't plan on messing around with this any more so that is Apple and/or Apogee's job to solve.

I am still inclined to buy the Thunderbolt interface because there are some useful features not available over USB, and USB has never been totally suitable for pro audio IMHO. But this definitely sucks for those of you with smaller interfaces who have no need for more than a few channels and just expect it to work.

What is annoying about this is that Apogee are a Mac only shop. I don't really mind that, but I expect that if you are only going to support one platform it should be damn near perfect. We are now 2 months out from the latest iMac release with no sign of a fix in sight. I found a 12 year old Delta 1010 sitting in a box, plugged it into an old ass PC just now and it works perfectly first time
Old 2nd December 2013
  #250
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by llary(Mobineko) View Post
So I just got back from a business trip and followed the directions Apogee Support had sent in the meantime, none of that is working (usual stuff like SMC reset, reinstall drivers etc).

I also dug out another USB2.0 hub, that still doesn't work.

Looking into this deeper I am wondering if there is a bug in the AppleUSBAudioEngine.cpp and AppleUSBAudioStream.cpp code. They are spitting out debug errors around the sections that deal with clock setup and audio streaming.

My gut instinct is a clocking issue. There is no detailed clocking information built into the USB protocol so usually it's up to the interface to do clock recovery based on USB frames. I don't plan on messing around with this any more so that is Apple and/or Apogee's job to solve.

I am still inclined to buy the Thunderbolt interface because there are some useful features not available over USB, and USB has never been totally suitable for pro audio IMHO. But this definitely sucks for those of you with smaller interfaces who have no need for more than a few channels and just expect it to work.

What is annoying about this is that Apogee are a Mac only shop. I don't really mind that, but I expect that if you are only going to support one platform it should be damn near perfect. We are now 2 months out from the latest iMac release with no sign of a fix in sight. I found a 12 year old Delta 1010 sitting in a box, plugged it into an old ass PC just now and it works perfectly first time


In all fairness.. it's been pretty well documented in this thread and the apple one that this problem is not isolated to a single interface company and the only constant is the new MAC's.

However, I feel your pain man.. It is definitely no fun to be out of work. I'm sticking to my rig for as long as possible or at least until someone has a clear answer to what's going on.
Old 2nd December 2013
  #251
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

I agree and have heard of other hardware manufacturers having issues as well

while i was hoping that apogee, being exclusively apple, would have possibly earlier access or info to new directions apple takes i have no idea if thats true or not

i will say i hope that they get it fixed soon as i love the product and i will also say they at least are very proactive on the support ticket. i have also supplied them a ton of info and tried a bunch of different things to help them

which Carl keeps saying "great info" to, so i hope it truly is helping reach a solution

i know its one of those things that will get resolved at some point as i dont think anyone saw this coming but it is disappointing to say the least
Old 4th December 2013
  #252
Here for the gear
 

Hello guys,

I have the exact same problem with my brand new iMac 27" 3.5Ghz i7 with the 3TB fusion drive. Pops cracks and drop the sound on playback and huge delay and distortion on recording both with my Apogee duet 2 and my Apogee one.

I tried the options I read on this thread :
- I bought the Belkin thunderbolt express dock : didn't solve the problem at all.
- Tried many usb hubs : same problems.

So I'm stuck with a "top of the line iMac" that I cannot return for refund and cannot use to do the job that I'm making a living with.
Seriously what happened to Apple?

I opened a ticket with Apogee they are obviously aware and working on a fix but they also told me that it would be a join work with Apple and what scares me is that and I spend hours talking on the phone with Apple techs and most of them were not even aware of the problem... That don't give much hope.

Seriously this is giving me anxieties, I'm supposed to finish super important projects for my clients and there not a solution on sight so I'm stuck with that useless iMac that was supposed to be an upgrade.
Old 5th December 2013
  #253
Here for the gear
 

Has anybody tried to split the fusion drive? I have a late 2013 iMac 3.5 1 Tera fusion drive, no problem with an mbox 2 pro and pt 10 I have split the drive as soon as I got it. I mean the whole idea of the fusion drive sounds like a mess to me for daw application. I didn't even tried it.
Old 5th December 2013
  #254
Here for the gear
 

I think these workarounds are a bit of a nonsense tbh. Paying £2500 for an iMac and then having to do workarounds? No.

Some of the workarounds I've seen on the net mean well enough. But some of them involve spending £300 approx on all sorts of rubbish that you shouldn't need in the first place.

What people need to do is to take them (iMacs) back en masse. Apple were very good with my issue and I now have a full refund.

The other issue I have is the MacPro due to be released this month apparently.

How is that going to work with audio interfaces? Same culture right?
Old 5th December 2013
  #255
Here for the gear
 

Splitting the fusion drive is actually great! I got 128 gb ssd for osx and 1 Tera 7200 hd for sessions.
Old 5th December 2013
  #256
Lives for gear
 
dougb415's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Cook View Post
I think these workarounds are a bit of a nonsense tbh. Paying £2500 for an iMac and then having to do workarounds? No.
That equals out to $4088 in US dollars. The iMac I'm looking at cost less than half of that - 27" screen 3.4hz processor. $1999. How do you double the price, is it that much more outside of the U.S.?
Old 5th December 2013
  #257
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougb415 View Post
That equals out to $4088 in US dollars. The iMac I'm looking at cost less than half of that - 27" screen 3.4hz processor. $1999. How do you double the price, is it that much more outside of the U.S.?
Configure - Apple Store (UK)

Upgrade 3.5 / 3.9 turbo boost.

Plus 32 gigs of Ram from Crucial and the external Apple CD/DVD drive.

You work it out. Welcome to rip off Britain.
Old 6th December 2013
  #258
Here for the gear
 

Hello everybody,

Yesterday, I received my new iMac 27' (256 SSD). I used it a few hours with Apogee Duet 1 (Firewire with thunderbolt adaptor) and IT WORKS !!!
No issues when listening a song in iTunes, Youtube..., no issues when recording guitars and voices with GarageBand.
i'm not about to declare a victory, I'll make others tests today and in the coming days but I'm confident.

So, for those who have issues with Fusion Drive (I returned my first iMac with Fusion Drive) AND Firewire Duet, SSD (and I think classic HD too, I read it on others forum) works fine.

Unfortunately, I know there is also issues with USB 3...
Old 6th December 2013
  #259
Lives for gear
 

I use a SSD boot but if I had one of these Fusion problems it would have already been returned. Shame on Apple for letting this go on this long.
Old 8th December 2013
  #260
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

I had the fusion and returned it for an internal SSD 1tb drive and the apogee is still hosed and they know about it

It's not just the fusion drive for some thing but USB 3 as well
Old 9th December 2013
  #261
Here for the gear
 

The problem that I (and others) have has nothing to do with the HDD, it is a USB issue and makes the interface completely unusable over USB. It's not just a few delays or clicks, the output is totally screwed.
Old 9th December 2013
  #262
Lives for gear
 

this problem then, seems like it is all over the place and will be very hard to solve. So the 2012 imacs don't have this issue at all?
Old 11th December 2013
  #263
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

With all the issues reported with the new Haswell Imac's i was wondering if we could consolidate and report anyone who is working just fine and if so what Sound card you are using and what type of connection

I am on an apogee symphony and over USB or TB/USB i am dead in the water and have been for weeks

i am on mavericks
32 gigs ram
1 TB SSD internal drive

i have been thru 2 Imacs. one with the fusion drive and now one with an internal 1 Tera SSD

the fusion drive, slowly degrading audio issue is gone with the fusion drive but now i cannot get my symphony to work either USB2 to USB 3 or with a matrox box USB 2/3 to TB or even the USB 2 to powered USB 2 hub

i have a ticket open with apogee and its being worked on with apogee and apple

i am wondering though is anyone is ok and if so what card you are using and what type of connection?

thanks
Old 11th December 2013
  #264
Curious if the Apple Fusion drive is the Seagate hybrid drive that's been available for a bit (2007ish, but didn't start to see much real traction until a year or two back). I haven't heard of any problems yet, but it would be good to keep an eye out for it in PC-land. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of this type of drive architecture, but I know for those on a budget, it can deliver more performance (mostly for reads and app loading) than spinning rust alone.

Here's one of the latest ones
Newegg.com - Seagate Hybrid Drive ST1000DX001 1TB MLC/8GB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s NCQ 3.5" Desktop SSHD

Edit: Looks like it's Hitachi in at least some cases and Seagate in others. I've done some research though, and it's done 100% in OSX software, so the HD itself isn't necessarily the problem.

Pete

Last edited by Psychlist1972; 11th December 2013 at 04:58 AM.. Reason: Researched it
Old 11th December 2013
  #265
Here for the gear
Trock,

I have the late 2013 haswell iMac with SSD drive with the apogee quartet, and the unit works flawlessly on its own, but as soon as the maestro software is installed it starts freezing, restarts etc. so I have it uninstalled atm but it kinda sucks, I miss the low latency mixer. But I guess I'm luckier than most here though.

How are your units functioning without the software installed?
Old 11th December 2013
  #266
Lives for gear
 

Anybody using a UA Apollo with a 2013 iMac (SSD not FD)? Thinking of retiring my Mac Pro for that and a Mac Mini slave.
Old 11th December 2013
  #267
Here for the gear
 
catchat's Avatar
 

Hi all,
Here is my story,
As everybody here, I had the distorted sound syndrome at the beginning when using the audio out of the iMac directly to feed my monitors. I bought a Thunderbolt adapter and a 400 to 800 firewire to connect my Mbox 2 Pro, same distorted sound. At this time, I had a USB 3 hub to connect all my ilok, licenser dongles and my 2 Midi keyboards. I decided to try something else, I disconnected my usb 3 hub and replaced it with a usb 2 hub and... bingo NO MORE distorted audio, clean, clear sound... It's been at least 3 weeks I use this set-up, so it WORKS.
I think it's clearly a "USB" problem, between the usb2 and the usb3 !!!

Hope it'll help somebody.

my set-up: iMac (late 2013) 3.5 GHz intel core i7, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB, Maverick, 32 GB ram from Crucial, 256 SSD. 960 GB Crucial SSD USB3 for all my libraries
Old 11th December 2013
  #268
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

my problem with the symphony has been one huge negative experience

again 2 Imac's, one with the fusion and degrading audio to start

now with the SSD drive i cant get it to work at all with

1) direct USB from symphony to Imac or USB 2 to USB 3

2) symphony to USB 2 powered hub to Imac USB 3

3) symphony USB 2 out to Matrox box USB 2 port to Thunderbolt on Imac

4) symphony USB 2 out to USB 3 on Matrox to Thunderbolt on Imac

5) It worked better on 10.8.5 as well, with Mavericks i get nothing out of it but pops and clicks and then it dies completely

apogee is still working my ticket but i have heard nothing for days now. my hope is this is a fix that apogee can do and its not just apogee. but if RME or the Apollo or anyone else gets it fixed and working flawlessly i will look elsewhere. i have been down a good 2 months, and reverted to my N12 on old macbook pro for now.

i love the apogee sound and my quality of recordings with it but its no good to me dead
Old 11th December 2013
  #269
Lives for gear
 

Just want to jump in with a quick update to let everyone know that this is still top priority over here - we haven't forgotten about anyone and are still on it. I'm sure other interface manufacturers are doing the same.

As some others stated earlier, it turns out that the Fusion/SSD/HDD theory was likely a red herring, or at least some separate issue. The issue we're dealing with causes a degradation of the signal into distortion, and occasionally dropouts or software glitches. This is a USB issue currently affecting many makes and models of USB audio interfaces on these newest (late 2013, "Haswell") computers only.

The severity of the problem seems to be related to the number of channels that the audio interface utilizes. A one or two channel interface like the JAM/MiC/ONE works fine, things start to get funky with multi-channel devices like Quartet (12-in, 8-out), and Symphony I/O connected through USB (16-in, 16-out) is currently not working.

We have had varying degrees of success connecting through the Thunderbolt port using hubs - it helps in some cases, but not all. As you can see from my post four weeks ago, we thought this might be a viable workaround, but further testing (and Trock's firsthand experience) shows that it is not always the case.

Symphony I/O + ThunderBridge is still rock-solid on these computers, since it's using PCIe audio, not USB. Same with a Symphony 64 PCIe card + chassis. If you're a Symphony I/O user, that's the only bulletproof solution we have so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post
So the 2012 imacs don't have this issue at all?
This is correct, only the newest gen with the Haswell processors. I'm actually using a 2012 iMac with Quartet at home and it's 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trock View Post
i have been down a good 2 months, and reverted to my N12 on old macbook pro for now.
Probably a silly question, but there's no chance you could connect the Symphony to that Macbook Pro? Symphony just needs 10.6.8 and an Intel processor for USB mode.
Old 11th December 2013
  #270
Here for the gear
Hi Don,

SDD Haswell 2013 iMac here, using quartet with maestro freezing after half a minute or so then automatically restarting both software and hardware unit. Then just repeating that, so, not workable. No weird audio pops or things like that though. Quartet running fine without the software.

So what is the solution, just sit and wait? People here report having waited for 2 months? I don't wanna sit here for months just hearing nothing other than that apple kinda might be aware of the situation. If I'm gonna send back my iMac I wanna do it now, since it's a lot of money just sitting around on my desk(just bought it for recording).

I've got one response on my apogee support ticket with things to try (trying all the usb ports etc) and told me to list my versions but haven't got a response since I replied with the information.

Are the USB ports on all these 2013 macs actually faulty? If so, isn't it a no-brainer that the iMacs should be sent back to apple?

Bottom line, is this fixable via firmware/software update or not?(either by developers/apogee or apple) I guess you can't tell at the moment but you must understand the frustration of not knowing, and at the same time reading about others not knowing for 2 months. And on top of that, hearing the same answer then and now- along the lines of "we're discussing it with apple".

Thanks, really appreciate your presence here representing apogee!
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump