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Transient Metering plugin? Does something exist?
Old 17th October 2013
  #1
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DGByrne's Avatar
 

Transient Metering plugin? Does something exist?

Before anyone gets a "use your ears!" out... I agree. BUT, I also love to look at spectrum analyzers to see what my (still quite amateur) ears might be missing when EQing a track with references. And I was just wondering if there's any kind of tool like that for transients that can track how fast/slow/squashed/spiky etc transients in a recording are? I use the brainworx bx_meter to show dynamic range, but it doesn't give any info for the speed of the transient. Thought maybe something like this would help with setting comps/limiters/transient designers against ref tracks.

I know I could just zoom in on a waveform and look at the transients one by one, but that seems like a workflow killer.

Thanks to anyone with suggestions, and/or comments that this is impossible, impractical, or just plain dumb.

And if nothing like this exists I hope one of the plugin devs that reads the forum will make one tout de suite, and send me a free copy...

Thanks!

DGB
Old 17th October 2013
  #2
You can download s(M)exoscope - a waveform visualisation plugin - for free.
Bram.Smartelectronix.Com

You can also use the metering inside certain plugins like Fabfilter Pro-L or LVC-Audio ClipShifter.
Old 17th October 2013
  #3
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Thanks Dynamike!

But, could you give me a hint as to how you use those metering tools in your workflow? Maybe to set a compressor on a drum bus against a reference for an example? Are you just using the meters to look at the waveform and compare visually? I think I'd rather do that in the waveform editor in my DAW, but maybe having it as a plugin makes it easier somehow?

I was thinking more of something along the lines of the dynamic range part of the bx_meter or Voxengo Span's excellent Density Mode metering... Something with real-time feedback giving some kind of indication of how fast the rise and fall times of transients are (with some kind of visual indication).

For example, say a drum bus has a dynamic range of, I don't know, 16db. A dynamic range meter will show this, but won't show how quickly it's going from 0db to -16db. The bus compressor could be clamping down really quickly or really slowly, but as long as the dynamic range is 16db, it will show the same value. I was thinking of something that visually shows how many ms (or whatever) it takes for the transient to rise to its peak, and how many ms it takes for it to fall. And then maybe puts that info in some visual up/down or left right meter. Make any sense?

Thanks!
Old 17th October 2013
  #4
Haha I must admit, it sounds complicated but I understand what you mean. Visualisation isn't enough, you also need exact numbers am I right? But I'm not sure if there's such a tool. Because you're also using a reference at the same time. I don't. I use this kind of metering to see what I'm doing (besides using ears of course).

Example: if I put the s(M)exoscope on the drum bus I can see disturbing transients. By adding a clipper or something like that I can reduce the spikes to a certain point (or go back to the single channels and change volume or note velocity). I'm not only hearing if that's okay but I can also see how the peaks behave against the whole wav file. It's easier to find a match in the first place.

Maybe the NuGen VisLM can help? Check this video from 10:50.
Loudness Meters in use - a roundup of some of the best - YouTube
Old 18th October 2013
  #5
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Yeah, the idea might be too complicated to implement because there are a lot of variables regarding transients. But dev's make some pretty amazingly complicated tools nowadays, so hopefully someone will still make something like this...

Now I see how the s(M)exoscope could be really useful, gonna download it now and try it out.

The NuGen looks really great I think I demoed their Visualizer. A bit on the pricey side for the level meter (for me at least) though I'm sure it's worth it.
Old 18th October 2013
  #6
Found another tool > iZotope Insight | OVERVIEW.

As you can see, I'm into metering lately. heh
Old 18th October 2013
  #7
I assume you are compressing the 2 bus. I would look at the kick and snare peaks as those will be the driving factor and should be fairly consistent. You could zoom in on those peaks to get the timing measurements your looking for. If and when that doesn't work you can always use those ears
Old 18th October 2013
  #8
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Thanks Dynamike. I've looked into adding Insight to my Ozone, which I love. Probably will at some point. It still doesn't really do what I was hoping something did. It seems like a great tool, but the metering seems more like Loudness history, and doesn't really offer any detail on the specifics of the transients... Someday...
Old 18th October 2013
  #9
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Hey Daez! Thanks for your reply. What I was after was something you could use on a 2bus, other bus, or individual tracks.

Yeah, zooming in and looking seems like the only available method (or using the plugin Dynamike suggested to look at the transients). I was thinking about something that would give visual feedback, without having to zoom-in and look at all the transients. A meter of some kind. Seems like a useful work-flow tool to me, but maybe the need for a tool like this isn't big enough to drive the market to make one! Too bad for me. And thank you for getting my "use your ears" joke.
Old 18th October 2013
  #10
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A very very crude example of what I was thinking of:
Attached Thumbnails
Transient Metering plugin?  Does something exist?-transient-meter.png  
Old 18th October 2013
  #11
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I trying to understand what you are after, but a peak meter is a transient meter, basically. Are you looking for a meter that analyzes odd, loud transient for mastering purposes or what do you need it for?
Old 18th October 2013
  #12
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Hey Basmartin!

A peak meter is a transient meter in the way that it shows where the transient's peak level is, so yes, but what I was looking for is something that shows how FAST the transients rise and fall.

So, where a traditional peak meter will tell you that a transient peaks at (whatever)db, it could take it 5ms or 20ms to get to that peak, and 20ms or 100ms to fall from that peak... So two examples that have the same peak levels could actually sound very different transient-time-wise. I was just thinking that I've never seen a meter for this (transient time) so I wanted to see if anyone else had. If not, someone make one! (unless no-one but me cares...)

I'm not a ME, so no I wouldn't use it in a mastering situation, besides the quick masters for clients I do. It would mostly be a research tool, as I spend a lot of time trying to take apart reference mixes I like. So for example, if I was looking at some stems of a session I dig, I could put it on the drum stem, and see how punchy the mixer tried to make the drums. Then I could take a drum stem I'm working on and see how close it is to my reference, and adjust my compressor attack and decay times to match the reference. Again, in that example I could be looking at my peak meter, and match the reference, but I don't have much info (except my ears, yes!) about attack and decay (rise and fall) times. Thought it would be cool for the workflow to have a visual meter of this.

Makes sense to me... but that's not saying a lot...

Thanks!

DGB
Old 24th October 2013
  #13
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And you want it in real time? I can´t seem to understand how that could work since transients basically hits the meter all the time giving you very few milliseconds to actually read what happend until that data was removed by the transient. Or I´m I far off again?
Old 4th November 2013
  #14
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Not sure... I don't think I understand what you're saying basmartin? There are a lot of plugins that already read and work with transients, like all the various transient-shaper plugins. So... our computers can definitely make sense of what's a transient and what isn't and keep track of them. It would just be a matter of a plugin that measured the distance between high and low (in volume). Not many (besides you and me!) have gotten excited by this thread, so I'm guessing this idea will just be a dream of mine...

Maybe someday!
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