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Windows 8.1 is here.
Old 17th October 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
kaboom75's Avatar
Windows 8.1 is here.

Updated from Win 8 - Win 8.1
Download is over 2GB can't remeber the exact size it might of been 3GB

During the install the screen went blank and no hard drive LED activity for over 20 mins.
Just when I was about to hit the reset button the install put the installing icon on my screen. Then it restarts with some install options.

I chose custom install and found a heck of a lot of options to turn off the default settings of bing with adverts to sending your activity to third parties aswell as Microsoft.
You are also given the option to turn off auto sending your my docs files to be backed up on microsofts servers. WTF! I was surprised that no ass inserted microphone probe option was there to turn off.

When it finally finished after two hours or so I tried Ableton Live 9.1 and it was running in half the rez and the plugins were twice the size. I could not read the text on anything. Some other aps were a bit blurry but Blender and Photoshop was perfect at 1920 x 1080p

I fixed the problem Win 8.1 update decided to have my Samsung 51" HDTV as the primary monitor. I managed to change that in Nvidia settings to the Dell computer screen and now all is as sharp as Windows 7. I had to change the sound options in control panel back to full range front and left speakers.

So other than all that which I fixed Win 8.1 works.
I've no idea about the start button as I already have Stardock Start8 installed which makes Win 8 look and work like Win 7 with the option to peek in the metro thing. Start8 works with Win 8 and Win 8.1
Old 18th October 2013
  #2
Finished W8 pro 64 ->W8.1 pro 64 upgrades, for three desktops and one laptop in two hours. Each took ~30min, but most of the upgrade was unattended run except for the license agreement screen and getting identity codes via texting and re-sign up with MS account.

So far after the upgrade, zero problems. All apps (Cubase, Reaper, some plugins tested), drivers for interfaces, working as smoothly as W7 and W8. Start 'button' is back, but I've already adjusted my way of using W8 already, so it doesn't matter (still welcome back). I'll start rearranging icons on the start screen.
Old 18th October 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 

So did they bring back the start menu or just add that button but make it bring up the tiles? I initially heard they were going to allow users to avoid the tiles but just read a review saying otherwise.
Old 18th October 2013
  #4
They didn't bring back start menu, but there is a start button which will take you to start screen which is a tile-driven screen you see here and there showing Win 8 PCs.

But, W8.1 has many more options how you customize the start screen and task bar. You can log on to your desktop completely bypassing the start screen. By right-clicking the start 'button', you have access to shut down, control panel, command prompt, task manager, and even search. So, the right-clicking on start button pretty much covers most of the WinXP-Win7 start menu.

For each app's pull down (hierarchy) menu for previous opened files, you need to adjust your work flow a little bit. You can pin down your favorite apps to task bar, and right clicking on the app's icon will show recently opened files.

Then real advantage is, when you have two or three monitors, each screen has its own task bar, and each screen can be scaled differently. One application is to have small 13-15inch touch monitor on VESA arm, and use it as an launching pad of apps or transport control of your DAW. There are lots of possibilities.
Old 18th October 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 

I certainly don't miss the start menu. In Win 7 I always hit the Win key and just start typing whatever app I want to launch. After the suggested app shows up (usually within 1-3 keystrokes) I just hit enter and it launches. Exactly the same in Win 8. So no loss for me.
Old 18th October 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

Be careful guys. My cubase system is hosed after updating and you can't roll back!

After the horse had bolted I noticed on the main steinberg site a message saying some of their hardware doesn't work with 8.1 and NOT to update, this was too late for me as I'd checked the forum where nothing had been mentioned when I did the update this morning.

MC
Old 18th October 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
horseface's Avatar
What's a Windows?
Old 18th October 2013
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
Be careful guys. My cubase system is hosed after updating and you can't roll back!

After the horse had bolted I noticed on the main steinberg site a message saying some of their hardware doesn't work with 8.1 and NOT to update, this was too late for me as I'd checked the forum where nothing had been mentioned when I did the update this morning.

MC
Ah, sorry to hear that.....For other people who have Steinberg hardware, would you mind elaborate yours?

I updated several rigs at the same time yesterday, but I was confident to do that, since I tested two machines and hardware drivers with 8.1 preview for a couple of weeks (several RME cards, M-Audio interface/MIDI interfaces, FW controller cards, some video cards for HD videos).
Old 18th October 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masaaki View Post
Ah, sorry to hear that.....For other people who have Steinberg hardware, would you mind elaborate yours?

I updated several rigs at the same time yesterday, but I was confident to do that, since I tested two machines and hardware drivers with 8.1 preview for a couple of weeks (several RME cards, M-Audio interface/MIDI interfaces, FW controller cards, some video cards for HD videos).
I've got

MR816X
UR824
UR22


I'm really shocked at the state of affairs here. I cannot open any of my old 'current' projects now, they open but no meter activity or audio in Cubase 7 or Nuendo 6, Reaper works fine, so it's weird that the hardware works fine with reaper but with their own software is f**ked.

I've spent 6 hours today trying to get this working.


I think I was lulled into a false sense of security by it being a point update , that, and the fact I've been using the RTM on my laptop with Reaper no problems for a while. I've broken my golden rule for the first time and boy has it come back to bite me!!!!



MC
Old 18th October 2013
  #10
I checked the threads and your posts over there at Steinberg.net, and you mentioned that you changed the account log in method from local to Microsoft account. What could happen with that is, all the personal data, including your Cubase project files have been moved to new owner (which is your MS account), and re-created access privileges.

I'm not sure that the root of the problems, but you may want to check files in your project folders and security privilege for each one. Compare the one with new projects you created with new MS account.
Old 18th October 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
I've got

MR816X
UR824
UR22


I'm really shocked at the state of affairs here. I cannot open any of my old 'current' projects now, they open but no meter activity or audio in Cubase 7 or Nuendo 6, Reaper works fine, so it's weird that the hardware works fine with reaper but with their own software is f**ked.

I've spent 6 hours today trying to get this working.


I think I was lulled into a false sense of security by it being a point update , that, and the fact I've been using the RTM on my laptop with Reaper no problems for a while. I've broken my golden rule for the first time and boy has it come back to bite me!!!!



MC
I think it's fair say that anyone think about 'updating' should read that as reformatting the OS drive to reinstall the whole thing.. Backup everything and don't toss the old drive files either...



Basically it will take a bit to get all kinks worked out and perhaps some hardware will be forced into the junk bin.
Old 18th October 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masaaki View Post
I checked the threads and your posts over there at Steinberg.net, and you mentioned that you changed the account log in method from local to Microsoft account. What could happen with that is, all the personal data, including your Cubase project files have been moved to new owner (which is your MS account), and re-created access privileges.

I'm not sure that the root of the problems, but you may want to check files in your project folders and security privilege for each one. Compare the one with new projects you created with new MS account.

thanks, I had a hunch that it 'might' have something to do with it.

I've PM'd pete the microsoft guy on the windows 8 thread to see if he's any ideas. He's been very vocal about the 8.1 update being a very simple and effective update.

Is there any way I can go back to a local account , or is the fact I've added the microsoft account a one way ticket?


Last thought; as new projects seem fine, it would also point to a certain plugin that's causing issues but it seems strange that it would cause zero audio activity across whole project.

cheers
MC
Old 18th October 2013
  #13
You can add a local account with administrator privilege just like you do it with Win 7 or Win XP/Vista. But even using the same log in name, that's going to be another 'new' account for the system. So, it won't solve the problem.

For example, many net banking websites check the computer and login name, and allows only login name and the computer that has been verified. When you create another login account, and try to access the same banking site, you'll get "your computer is not recognized" kind of message. Have you experienced that? So, I guess, that's what happening with your previous Cubase projects.

What I don't know is how Cubase is checking the 'owner' of the project, and how to get these files' owner back to your previous local account. That's why I suggested to check the difference of these new files versus old project files, and particularly look at the 'security' tab of the property, who's registered to open. But, even you see your MS account name in that list, some hidden file may be blocking because the new owner (MS account) is different from the previous owner (local account of W8).

Hopefully this is making sense, and help to find out the root of the problems, but my guess could be totally off, so stay tuned for others to chime in.


As to the plugin blocking the audio, you might need 're-authorize', because I know some plugins are not always available for all the login accounts even in the same computer. That's all I can guess.
Old 18th October 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

thanks,

I understand what you're saying but it seems unusual that a song created in cubase would have 'permissions' as that would render it useless for opening on another computer etc which would be a complete no no.


I have an RME HDSP card lying around so I'm going to install that tomorrow however I've a feeling its not a hardware issue as the hardware works fine with new projects and Reaper.




MC
Old 18th October 2013
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
I understand what you're saying but it seems unusual that a song created in cubase would have 'permissions' as that would render it useless for opening on another computer etc which would be a complete no no.
I think that Masaaki might be onto something because Cubase is one of those programs that uses pretty different ways of managing program settings and presets depending on whether you choose "install for all users" or "only for this account" when you first install it. I have also encountered several plugins that only work in the same Windows user account you used to install them, due to their DRM measures.

I have become a virtual pro at doing clean uninstalls/re-installs of Cubase, as that seems to be the common Steinberg solution to any number of problems- although it rarely helps explain what really went wrong. There might be some value in trying that, but if SB is already telling people to hold off on 8.1, success might be limited.

I am not pleased you are having these issues, but I'm glad you posted, because I was thinking about checking out 8.1 on my Windows 8 partition this weekend, and I am a UR22 owner as well. Keep us posted.
Old 18th October 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

Thanks guys,

Well i went back to the studio after dinner this evening and tried a few permissions things , to no avail .

I then started working through one of my projects chronologically as I save incremental versions as I work.


After an hour or so I hit upon the culprit:


NEBULA.


Yes ,once I'd dragged Nebula from my VST plugin folder then my projects opened and played fine.

I did get a freeze however though when opening the mixer window with F3 key on a couple of occasions but I'm going to trash the prefs again tomorrow now I know what the main issue was.


I'll keep you posted.


MC
Old 19th October 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Exclamation

I upgraded to Win 8.1 today and my MAudio Delta 66 ceased to function. The driver was there, the control panel worked fine, device manager didn't show any problems but every application I tried to start including iTunes, foobar2000 etc would toss up an era related to a problem with audio playback.

Tried removing the driver and installing again with no luck.

I finally ended up trying the Windows 7 x64 driver which is older than the Windows 7 x64 SP1 driver that I was using successfully under Windows 8.0.

This solved the problem but now I'm using an older, probably more buggy, driver than I was using under Windows 8.0.

Anyone else have this problem?

P.S. I also had to reauthorize my Addictive Keys and Drums programs.
No biggie and easy to do with the online program.
Old 19th October 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
blackcom's Avatar
 

Had to use the latest beta driver formy ati gpu but all else is fine. I like the new start screen now.
Old 19th October 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom View Post
Had to use the latest beta driver formy ati gpu but all else is fine. I like the new start screen now.
Yes.
The improvements are small but do make a difference.
Old 19th October 2013
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom75 View Post
I chose custom install and found a heck of a lot of options to turn off the default settings of bing with adverts to sending your activity to third parties aswell as Microsoft.
You saw an option to turn on or off your app ad ID. This is much like "do not track" in Internet Explorer, but for apps. There was nothign about sending activities to third parties.

The options to send activity to Microsoft are always off by default. They are opt-in to the customer experience improvement programs. Those are how we know how people are actually using their computers so that we can make data-driven intelligent decisions about how the OS should work in the future. That's always optional, however.

Quote:
You are also given the option to turn off auto sending your my docs files to be backed up on microsofts servers. WTF! I was surprised that no ass inserted microphone probe option was there to turn off.
This is Skydrive you're talking about. It's personal cloud storage. It's what enables roaming of settings and app data, and your documents. If you don't want to use it, that's cool, but there's nothing scandalous here. Apple, Google, and Amazon also have their own cloud storage solutions.

Again, nothing nefarious here, it's a service we offer.

For example, my phone automatically uploads my photos and videos to my personal Skydrive account, so I can then easily access them from any of my PCs.

Quote:
When it finally finished after two hours or so
That's odd. If you chose to migrate data and apps, it probably had a lot to back up. Strange that it just gave you a blank screen, though, unless maybe the drive was almost completely full and it had to churn.

Quote:
I tried Ableton Live 9.1 and it was running in half the rez and the plugins were twice the size. I could not read the text on anything. Some other aps were a bit blurry but Blender and Photoshop was perfect at 1920 x 1080p
This is based on the reported DPI for the screen. Windows 8.1 includes desktop DPI scaling that you can control per-display. If you don't want that, right-click the desktop, choose display settings and then click the link at the bottom to make text and other items larger or smaller. This is primarily to support the wave of high DPI displays that have been showing up, including 4k resolution tablets.

I run two displays on my desk, but both using the default 100% scaling. One is a 4k 39" monitor at 3840x2160, the other is a 30" dell display at 2560x1600.

You control which one is primary by right-clicking the desktop, choosing display properties, and clicking "Make this my main display". By default, Windows uses the order specified in your computer's BIOS if you have more than one video card and in the video card settings if you have a single card with multiple connections.

Hope that helps.

Pete
Old 19th October 2013
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
I think it's fair say that anyone think about 'updating' should read that as reformatting the OS drive to reinstall the whole thing.. Backup everything and don't toss the old drive files either...

Basically it will take a bit to get all kinks worked out and perhaps some hardware will be forced into the junk bin.
Actually, with Windows 8 to Windows 8.1, the upgrade through the store is the preferred method. We've done a LOT of testing on that.

As to the issue with permissions on the project files, that's *possible*, but not likely. I'd need to learn more about what error is happening before I could make any recommendations on the file issue.

But, if your machine has been through several upgrades (for example, this machine had Windows 7, multiple WIndows 8 internal and public builds, Windows 8.1 preview and some other internal builds), it's a good idea to do a clean install. In that case, what you do is simply do the upgrade, but select the option to only preserve data, not apps. Or you can back everything up and choose to preserve nothing.

Regardless, you can do that all through the store without having to pave your machine first.

That said, OS upgrade time is always a good time to check out the latest crop of SSDs

Pete
Old 19th October 2013
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
Thanks guys,

Well i went back to the studio after dinner this evening and tried a few permissions things , to no avail .

I then started working through one of my projects chronologically as I save incremental versions as I work.

After an hour or so I hit upon the culprit:

NEBULA.

Yes ,once I'd dragged Nebula from my VST plugin folder then my projects opened and played fine.

I did get a freeze however though when opening the mixer window with F3 key on a couple of occasions but I'm going to trash the prefs again tomorrow now I know what the main issue was.

I'll keep you posted.

MC
This is good to know. I was leaning towards this being a dongle issue, but glad to see it wasn't.

For the first time, when I did the rebuild of this machine (on a brand new 512gb SSD) I decided to make my VST folder separate from program files. I had seen this recommended here in the past, and so far, it seems to run as fast or faster than it used to, and no issues with VSTs that do stupid things like write to their install directory.

Can you point me to the thread with the Cubase HW issues? If there's something that worked on 8 and not 8.1, I want to make sure the right folks know.

Pete
Old 19th October 2013
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcom View Post
Had to use the latest beta driver formy ati gpu but all else is fine. I like the new start screen now.
Other things you may like (a post I wrote when the 8.1 preview came out):
The little things that matter: Top desktop-friendly improvements in Windows 8.1 - Pete Brown's 10rem.net

Having the desktop wallpaper as the background for the Start screen makes a huge difference.

Pete
Old 19th October 2013
  #24
run, megalodon
Guest
One thing I want to share, the installation makes it seem like you have to make a Live account, but there is an option in there on one of the screens to "continue using your current account" or something that you can click to get past it. I really hate having to register for that kind of stuff (I can't remember if I ever made one or not) and I did not a appreciate that trickery.

Also, please tell me you can change the colors of individual tiles on the start screen? I can't seem to find it. Why would you randomize the colors and then not let people change them.

Stability wise everything is working just as before.
Old 19th October 2013
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
stevedemena's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I certainly don't miss the start menu. In Win 7 I always hit the Win key and just start typing whatever app I want to launch. After the suggested app shows up (usually within 1-3 keystrokes) I just hit enter and it launches. Exactly the same in Win 8. So no loss for me.
But it was so easy to shut down from the Win 7 start menu.
Old 19th October 2013
  #26
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I finally figured out that you just push the power switch on the computer and it shuts down properly.
Old 19th October 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I finally figured out that you just push the power switch on the computer and it shuts down properly.
Click on the desktop and then Alt+F4 will give you the shutdown/restart/etc menu.
Old 19th October 2013
  #28
Or, right click on the new start button, and go to 'shut down or sign out'.

That became my favorite quickly.
Old 19th October 2013
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
One thing I want to share, the installation makes it seem like you have to make a Live account, but there is an option in there on one of the screens to "continue using your current account" or something that you can click to get past it. I really hate having to register for that kind of stuff (I can't remember if I ever made one or not) and I did not a appreciate that trickery.
There's no cost, no spam, and everything works better with the account.

For example, if you have a MS account, and (you can opt out of this if you want) set up a second PC, your settings and Windows Store apps can be automatically sync'd

Quote:
Also, please tell me you can change the colors of individual tiles on the start screen? I can't seem to find it. Why would you randomize the colors and then not let people change them.

Stability wise everything is working just as before.
Windows Store Apps pick their own tile design (the color is just part of the design). For desktop apps, Windows uses an algorithm to match the color of the icon. Not sure if there's a way around that, but I'm not aware of one.

Pete
Old 19th October 2013
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedemena View Post
But it was so easy to shut down from the Win 7 start menu.
Windows + X, Shutdown.

Pete
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