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Windows 8.1 is here.
Old 20th October 2013
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
Has anyone seen or heard of a Win 8.1 full ISO for download? For those installing fresh it would be a real time saver to be able to just install straight to 8.1.
Yeah, I just checked my MSDN account, and there are indeed Windows 8.1 ISOs available for all SKUs. I doubt there are non-developer public full-disc downloads though, other than TechNet/IT...

@Pete, others: Could you explain exactly how Skydrive is working on Windows 8.1 now? I'm a recent Skydrive convert (on Win 7), and I think it's almost perfect as-is. How is the 8.1 implementation different from what I'm used to (local Skydrive folder automatically synced to/from cloud)?

I've been developing for Win 8 for nearly 2 years, but I've somehow managed to only use local accounts on all my Win 8 dev/test systems to date...
Old 21st October 2013
  #62
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valis's Avatar
Look for digitalriver download links, they are the official download repository for all MSDN/Technet members and therefore will be the ISO you're after. You can get the Sha-1 from msdn without a login (google for the iso image page to find them) and the digitalriver links have always given the same sha-1 for me.

Note that digitalriver iso's are always CURRENT and may contain certain hotfixes not in the RTM/Gold versions of an OS (so the sha-1 will match the msdn/technet version but NOT the original OEM/retail sku's in many cases, like Win7...)
Old 21st October 2013
  #63
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
Oh, so you guys have decided it's great so there is no need for me to make a choice. Maybe I don't use the windows store. Maybe I don't want another account with a bunch of my data floating around that could get hacked. Give me a clear button to bypass. Don't hide the option away in some corner and call it something ambiguous to confuse me into becoming a part of whatever market share strategy you guys have going right now. Bull****.

Anyway thanks for your time, that stuff just annoys the **** out of me and the towing the party line here is not making it better.
OK I see where this went wrong! And I do understand! But if Pete is the op of this thread, them maybe that's why he feel inclined to reply to every post.

If he's not the op, then he maybe pushing his opinion on people, I don't like giving my email if I don't want to either. It should be a choice, but I can't use apple store with my email either.

Its the way things are I guess.

Edit, OK he's not the op, Pete you're very helpful, but you can't take over threads. Chill man...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Old 21st October 2013
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masaaki View Post
Hello Pete,

I fully support and appreciate your presence at GS. As long as all of us can voice what is good and what is bad, it's always great to have somebody from the manufacturers side and send feedback directly. Since you made very clear you work for MS, it's easy for me to understand what you can write and what you cannot.

With that said....

Do you know anything under your radar, some better DAW apps in development for Windows 8/RT? I have FL Studio groove, but that's basically beat maker, not audio editor.

There are some, like "Recording studio pro" or "n-Track Studio", but they all look like ancient prototypes or POS. I like to have something like Cubasis for iPad, even it cost $50. I hope Cockos makes Reaper app for Win 8, but anything that runs as Win 8/RT app, that's welcome.

I'm getting Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 this week, and I need something to play with.....
I can't speak to what dev partners are building right now. It's up to them to disclose.

My Surface 2 shipped today. I'm looking forward to it

In the Windows Store, some of the highest quality music-creation apps are FL Studio Groove, eDJing, MorphWiz, Grantophone, Music Maker Jam and a handful of others. Those vary in range from semi-pro to noodling.

The main thing that makes porting a full blown traditional DAW challenging at the moment is lack of USB MIDI for Windows Store apps and inability to use plug-is (VSTs). Internally, all the right people know about these based on a number of presentations I did on the topic. That's why apps like FL Studio Groove can do quite well, because they're entirely self-contained and also optimized for touch.

One thing you can do, if you're running Windows 8 and not Windows RT, is run all the normal desktop DAWs. On a Surface Pro (2), for example, you can run Ableton Live, FL Studio, Cubase, Traktor, and whatever else you may need. That's one reason we've generally been looking at *different* scenarios for Windows Store vs. typical full-blown DAW.

So, some relatively open-ended questions to further internal discussion on this:
  • Why do you want a full DAW on the Windows Store side? On iPad, it makes sense, since you can't run OSX apps. Tell me a bit on how you would use it (which may cover the other questions below).
  • What would you look for in that DAW feature-wise, knowing it wouldn't be 100% of a desktop DAW?
  • Would you need to run it on low-power devices like Surface, Surface 2, Intel Atom and others?
  • When would you use a DAW on a portable device vs. your full desktop DAW? What's the decision point?

Finally, if there are creative apps you see on iOS, Android, or other and you want them on Windows, I encourage you to ping the developer on them. I've talked to a LOT of developers and some of them point out that their customer base isn't yet demanding the apps, but they'll definitely consider when the see demand on their side. And if you happen to talk to an interested developer but they point out they don't know where to start or haven't heard from Microsoft, feel free to provide them with my email address. pete dot brown -at- microsoft dot com. I'm a fan and user of these apps myself, so I love to find new things to play with.

Pete
Old 21st October 2013
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateOutsider View Post
Yeah, I just checked my MSDN account, and there are indeed Windows 8.1 ISOs available for all SKUs. I doubt there are non-developer public full-disc downloads though, other than TechNet/IT...

@Pete, others: Could you explain exactly how Skydrive is working on Windows 8.1 now? I'm a recent Skydrive convert (on Win 7), and I think it's almost perfect as-is. How is the 8.1 implementation different from what I'm used to (local Skydrive folder automatically synced to/from cloud)?

I've been developing for Win 8 for nearly 2 years, but I've somehow managed to only use local accounts on all my Win 8 dev/test systems to date...
SkyDrive isn't my area of expertise by far, and I have never used the old desktop app, but in a nut shell:
  • You have a Skydrive folder in your user profile (not sure if this happens if you're using a local account. Presumably not.
  • The SkyDrive link shows up in the left nav bar in Windows Explorer. This is also available to any desktop app that uses the standard Windows file pickers. So, for example, I can see and access my SkyDrive folder from Cubase. I haven't exercised this yet, but will soon. I'm pretty sure you have to "make available offline" before Cubase will open it.
  • Anything new you place in that folder or a subfolder of it will be automatically synchronized with SkyDrive.
  • Anything you delete from there will be deleted from SkyDrive as this folder *is* a representation of SkyDrive.
  • The files in that folder are not all "there". Those are placeholders which look and behave like the real file. To make something available offline, right-click it and choose that option. This helps avoid filling up your drive. See attached screen shot from my own personal SkyDrive account.
  • If you have the PC Settings->SkyDrive setting on, your default document save location is redirected to the SkyDrive folder. You can turn this off at any time.

There's no longer a separate SkyDrive desktop app. It's all integrated with the operating system now.

Windows Store apps can also save to SkyDrive through the file picker. And there is a Windows Store SkyDrive app that you can use to manage the files and folders if you want.

If you go to http://skydrive.com and log in, you can verify exactly what you have up there.

Obviously, you get the most out of this when you have multiple Windows devices (Windows Phone, or multiple PCs, and presumably the Xbox at some point if not already). However, having an automatic cloud backup is also good. It won't help you in the case of an accidental deletion, because that would also delete in Skydrive (unless you're explicitly creating backups here), but it does help in case of stolen machines, hardware failure, etc.

Pete

Attached Thumbnails
Windows 8.1 is here.-skydrive-folder.jpg  
Old 21st October 2013
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
Edit, OK he's not the op, Pete you're very helpful, but you can't take over threads. Chill man...
?? I'm answering questions in the thread. I see a Windows thread and figure I'm probably best equipped to help there. In the first post I explained what the person was seeing both in terms of the options and in terms of how apps were scaling on the screen. I also explained how to fix the scaling issue.

At the same time, if I see clear misinformation, I'm going to correct it.

It's not like I joined the thread and started calling people idiots and telling them why they're wrong. I also didn't jump in here and tell a bunch of Mac users they need to convert to Windows. :P

What happened here is run, megaladon didn't like the way we (Microsoft) implemented the Microsoft ID part of the install. I gave a pretty honest answer as to why there wasn't a big old "opt out" button dead center, but the option is instead in the corner on the screen. I also mentioned that I'd provide the feedback to the product teams that some more information on that screen to help the user decide would be helpful. For whatever reasons, it went a bit downhill from there.

If you look at all the posts you can see how what I've written here was received by the other people in the thread. In fact, I first found this thread because I was PM'd asking for some help. If I'm shilling or being a pain in the ass, call me out on it and I'll cork it. Otherwise, I figure I'm probably best positioned to help people here with their 8.1 installs.

Pete
Old 21st October 2013
  #67
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
?? I'm answering questions in the thread. I see a Windows thread and figure I'm probably best equipped to help there. In the first post I explained what the person was seeing both in terms of the options and in terms of how apps were scaling on the screen. I also explained how to fix the scaling issue.

At the same time, if I see clear misinformation, I'm going to correct it.
Pete
Well as I'm sure you remember me from the last thread, you told me you didn't want to misinform readers. Also as we know, Windows experience can very based on hardware and drivers.

I suggested staying with Windows 7, the drivers are mature and its proven to work. You have a right to your opinion, but others have there own opinion.

But you can be helpful at times

No audio pro should be jumping into 8.1 anyway, having a bias opinion for the company you work for is a conflict of interest. Your pushing a product, its not all good and WE should be cautious with our machines.

For me my machine feed my family and pay my bills, I could careless about the new tricks in these windows updates. If he doesn't like the new system, he should stay where he at.

Microsoft are making bad choices these days, I'm a gamer and they totally screwed up their Xbox One campaign. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

But I'm going to stop here because I'm sure you get my point...





Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Old 21st October 2013
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
No audio pro should be jumping into 8.1 anyway, having a bias opinion for the company you work for is a conflict of interest. Your pushing a product, its not all good and WE should be cautious with our machines.

For me my machine feed my family and pay my bills, I could careless about the new tricks in these windows updates. If he doesn't like the new system, he should stay where he at.
You're missing the point. This thread was full of people who ALREADY moved to Windows 8.1 and had questions.

Even megaladon had already moved over, and had some comments about things he disliked in the process.

This was not about convincing anyone to change operating systems. Please actually read the thread.

Pete
Old 21st October 2013
  #69
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
You're missing the point. This thread was full of people who ALREADY moved to Windows 8.1 and had questions.

Even megaladon had already moved over, and had some comments about things he disliked in the process.

This was not about convincing anyone to change operating systems. Please actually read the thread.

Pete
I read it, just observing someone's opinion that got defused. But you're right and you're being helpful, I guess because you did the same thing to me in the other thread, and your rebuttal was how much better the monitor support is for windows 8 vs 7. Kinda sales pitchy imho that's all.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Old 21st October 2013
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
I read it, just observing someone's opinion that got defused. But you're right and you're being helpful, I guess because you did the same thing to me in the other thread, and your rebuttal was how much better the monitor support is for windows 8 vs 7. Kinda sales pitchy imho that's all.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
This thread.
Windows 7 or 8?

You had made some comments about stuttering audio drivers. I asked in order to try to help and also to report any regressions to the product team. You never followed up. At the same time, I pointed out how to get around the signed driver requirement.

Then
Quote:
Originally Posted by computeruser
Windows 8 is quite good for tablets and touchscreen laptops. On a normal desktop or laptop I would recommend 'Windows 7 ultimate 64bit'. I used to use XP professional but there is not much support for this platform and it is being phased out.
Which I followed up with this, which I do admit on a second read does smell a bit like marketing. However, I also wanted to point out the XP lifecycle issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972
That's the myth I'm trying to expel. Yes, it's great on tablets and touchscreens, but it's also better than XP and 7 for desktops, especially those with multiple displays (or like when a laptop is connected to an external display). Windows 8.1 especially so.

After 12+ years, XP support expires in April. I highly encourage folks to move to a supported OS at that time, as you will no longer have patches for viruses/malware, and as the driver model isn't the secure one introduced in Vista (and continued in 7 and 8), it's more susceptible to exploits unless you're very careful.
Then, you asked:

Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz
Hey Pete did you state some advantages about W8 in this thread? I heard of a latency issue with midi in W7 but I've never experienced it. I'm curious about benefits for audio in windows 8.

From what I read, W8 performance is identical to W7 or slightly slower for some.
and which I answerd:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972
As to your other question on DAW advantages in Windows 8/8.1, there's nothing big and specific to audio. It's all the other stuff I pointed out, including increased startup perf, increase UI perf, lower memory footprint, multi-mon, etc.
and then you stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz
I don't get the multi-monitor thing. I've been running dual monitors since Window ME, I simply don't need certain things to make music. Monitor support never stopped me from using multiple monitors before.
and I replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972
You'll notice better multi-mon support in a few key areas:
1. Per-screen DPI. That means you can have a higher DPI screen next to a lower DPI screen and have independent settings for each. Think like you have something like an 11 or 13" laptop set at 125% and a big monitor next to it set at 100%. This was not possible previously.

2. Per-screen task bars (show taskbar on all screens or just one, if all, you can show just applications open on that screen, or show everything, you can combine buttons or not, etc.).

3. Not a biggie, but nice: wallpaper that spans screens.

4. You can control where the start screen shows up on multi-display systems (main display always, or the display you were on when you hit the windows key)

We've always had multi-monitor support -- it's just much better now *especially* if you're thinking of combining classic displays with the emerging 4k displays (which will be a big deal in the next year or two), or with high DPI laptops (now on the market).
People are free to pick whichever OS works for them. I try to clear up misinformation like "Windows 8.1 is only for tablets". Maybe that's marketing, maybe it's fact-checking. At this point, I'm replying to keep my reputation in order. I'm an enthusiast and an employee. I've never been a marketer or a shill, and I take great pains to keep it that way. It's not something I can sit idly by and listen to people say.

But now this crap really has taken over this thread and has taken away focus from what OP and others were trying to do. My apologies to OP and the other folks trying to get things done. If anyone else replies to this, they'll have the last word.

Pete
Old 21st October 2013
  #71
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 

XP here.Everything always works without a hitch.
Old 21st October 2013
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavern View Post
XP here.Everything always works without a hitch.
XP is a good OS.

Just keep in mind that we stop putting out updates in April 2014. That means no more bug/exploit fixes and vendors will likely stop producing drivers etc.

Windows 7 and 8/8.1 have better driver models (first introduced in Vista, which was a big part of that rollout problem) to help with keeping internet-connected PCs safe.

If you stay on XP, I recommend that after March you keep that computer physically disconnected from the Internet and any other network, and use it only as your DAW - nothing else.

I used to have a Win2k machine that I used for a CNC controller. I kept it off the network because it was well out of date and unsupported. However, the manufacturer of the CNC system at the time didn't support anything newer and had gone out of business. :P

Pete
Old 21st October 2013
  #73
Lives for gear
 
foamboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
What's a Windows?
I think it's a thing that you throw your apple out of.


fb
Old 21st October 2013
  #74
Here for the gear
 
noIP's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
What's a Windows?


You can throw Apples out of these Windows
Old 21st October 2013
  #75
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
If I'm shilling or being a pain in the ass, call me out on it and I'll cork it. Otherwise, I figure I'm probably best positioned to help people here with their 8.1 installs.
I think you're doing a good job ;-)
Old 21st October 2013
  #76
I Will just wait and see, after finally getting pro tools 10.3.7 on my windows 8 system, im not gonna update until further info from manufacturers on compatibility problems.


greetz,
Jamil
Old 21st October 2013
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
What's a Windows?
looks like you never used a real computer before....
Old 21st October 2013
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamil21 View Post
I Will just wait and see, after finally getting pro tools 10.3.7 on my windows 8 system, im not gonna update until further info from manufacturers on compatibility problems.


greetz,
Jamil
How is Protools working for you?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Old 21st October 2013
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
So, some relatively open-ended questions to further internal discussion on this:
  • 1. Why do you want a full DAW on the Windows Store side? On iPad, it makes sense, since you can't run OSX apps. Tell me a bit on how you would use it (which may cover the other questions below).
    2. What would you look for in that DAW feature-wise, knowing it wouldn't be 100% of a desktop DAW?
    3. Would you need to run it on low-power devices like Surface, Surface 2, Intel Atom and others?
    4. When would you use a DAW on a portable device vs. your full desktop DAW? What's the decision point?
Thanks Pete, for detailed replies.

For #1, I know Surface Pro 2 will be able to run almost anything I want. But it is my son's and Surface 2 is my daughter's (basically). When I want lighter setup for location recording, I want to borrow from either of them. That's why I'm asking if RT is able to run full DAW from MS Store apps, or desktop app (Does RT runs desktop apps installed by users, as long as the app is 'made for RT'?)

For #2, my requirement is pretty low. Just to create 4-8ch tracks, and record. But I want to install ASIO driver for RT, just because I don't want to use class compliant mode with my interfaces (RME UFX and SD USBpre2). MIDI is nice if available, but not important for me. I guess I can do that with apps in the MS store already right?

For #3, well, I have Thinkpad W520 and it's a powerful laptop, but beefy (almost 7lb with ridiculously big AC adapter). I'll be glad to have 2lb setup for my aging back,....if possible.

For #4, I need a capacity to make quick mp3 render to give choices for my clients, on a occasion of location recording for auditions. We often records up to 10 takes, and I want to give a few best takes to them so that they can ask me which one I work on post (sometimes with HD videos). I want to give those takes to the clients when I leave the location so that I can work on the post next day. For that task, having USB port (to plugin their thumb drives) is essential, and a DAW that can quickly edit stereo bus (potentially one or two plugins like brickwall limiter), and export as MP3.


Well....let's see, I'll get those new toys in a day or two, so I'm just too much excited

one more question, does RT (either 8 or 8.1) allow installation of device drivers? I heard it can't but it might be a misinformation.
Old 21st October 2013
  #80
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
XP is a good OS.

Just keep in mind that we stop putting out updates in April 2014. That means no more bug/exploit fixes and vendors will likely stop producing drivers etc.

Windows 7 and 8/8.1 have better driver models (first introduced in Vista, which was a big part of that rollout problem) to help with keeping internet-connected PCs safe.

If you stay on XP, I recommend that after March you keep that computer physically disconnected from the Internet and any other network, and use it only as your DAW - nothing else.

I used to have a Win2k machine that I used for a CNC controller. I kept it off the network because it was well out of date and unsupported. However, the manufacturer of the CNC system at the time didn't support anything newer and had gone out of business. :P

Pete
Yeah i know,i couldn't resist the obvious humor.I also have windows 7 but i will run XP as long as i can.This computer has never seen the internet.It doesn't have LAN drivers installed.I have a Paragon backup of my entire studio setup/OS and if something goes wrong,it takes 60 minutes to get back in the game.I also mostly record real acoust. insts. so i don't need a tone of ram.Im thinking windows 7 by 2032.
Old 21st October 2013
  #81
Old 21st October 2013
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
How is Protools working for you?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
It's working great, I would recommend a clean install and run the installer as "administrator". but once its installed it works like a charm!!
Old 21st October 2013
  #83
Lives for gear
Pete, thanks for chiming in on this thread!

One question: is it possible with the new SkyDrive integration to see folders and files I was invited to/ were shared with me in my SkyDrive folder or do I still have to go to the SkyDrive homepage in order to work on for eg shared files?

Thanks
Old 21st October 2013
  #84
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post


I think I was lulled into a false sense of security by it being a point update , that, and the fact I've been using the RTM on my laptop with Reaper no problems for a while. I've broken my golden rule for the first time and boy has it come back to bite me!!!!



MC
Sorry to hear this bro. This is my issue with jumping to fast, and many people advising other to take the jump.

I updated to OSX 10.8.4 only because apple forced me to in order to run Logic. Now my audio interface is clicking and popping in 4 second intervals, along with static noises.

When moving from Windows XP to 7 I had to wait a years and a half to get drivers for my Midi Sport 4x4. Those drivers were available for my Mac immediately. Its just one of those things...

For now I'm unable to use my Mac for studio work, making my investment USELESS.

We must INFORM people to hold off as long as they can, especially with the bs that these corporations are telling us.

Regardless if apple OS is $30 and Windows is $130, its still more revenue to them.

There's nothing I need in this OSX update, and there even less with windows 8 tablet merged OS.

I have 2 Windows 8 laptops and one W7 laptop, I think W8 Look stupid trying to use my mouse on this scroll to the side concept.

On the other hand, I think the W8 tablets are wonderful.

Well at least I have one machine with an older OS that actually work. When I hear that people systems are down it saddens me, it could've easily been me.

We my Apple is down, so it is me...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Old 21st October 2013
  #85
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Wow, we pay a lot of money for our toys, I honestly think we should better support from these companies. It seem to take these companies years to do anything about some of these issues.

Just like with 64 bit, there's no way any product shouldn't be 64 bit by now.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Old 21st October 2013
  #86
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by classictunz View Post
It seem to take these companies years to do anything about some of these issues.
FWIW I've not heard of people having this problem with the preview.
Old 21st October 2013
  #87
Lives for gear
 
GeminIAm's Avatar
Phew. I use W7 32bit, and I don't think I'll be changing any time soon! I have an ancient, but perfectly fine, midi interface from the W98 era for instance, as well as some older plugins.
Old 21st October 2013
  #88
Gear Maniac
 
Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

@ Pete Brown

Thanks so much for all your wonderful info and time spent on this forum. I appreciate it greatly.

My Windows 8.1 installation has pretty much been flawless. Well done to MS.

My greatest complaint with MS, however, is their obsession with unnecessarily wide window borders. It's such a waste of screen space. We used to be able to keep the borders at a minimum, but in 8.1 it's worse than ever. Please could you ask the powers that be to remove the borders entirely. We don't need them.

Cheers,
Robin
Old 21st October 2013
  #89
Old 21st October 2013
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraner View Post
jbraner, you're a star!!!! Thanks for the help!!!
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