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AES-NYC: Slate Digital Previews the VIRTUAL MIX RACK
Old 9th April 2014
  #871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leevi View Post
I know bro. That made me wonder, because you dont need to add additional bands with the 1081 version
Yes and the hiQ you be welcome.
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Old 9th April 2014
  #872
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Originally Posted by rick2630 View Post
Yes and the hiQ you be welcome.
So lets ask also 1081 from Steven. It sounds a bit different anyway...
Old 11th April 2014
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
It's not bugs. Our new framework is quite amazing actually. The reason for delay is our desire for perfection, plain and simple.


Cheers,
Steven
Well the VBC is definitely an improvement in reliability over anything else I've tried from Slate Digital and sound quality is beautiful. As for the accuracy I'm not to sure but that's irrelevant to making a good mix of course.

It does seem the target market is for those without access to hi end analog and to offer a solution to make those people feel a little better about those inadequacy's but in reality for me the VBC is actually MORE valuable than those classics as a creative tool.

Like many I an excited to hear the new offering of the VMR but less interested in weather you can convince us that you are actually conquering Mt Everest here. I'm sure it will be as good or better than any digital offering currently on the market.

As a side note and possible thought to a future product I was hoping the VBC would finally lay to rest the final crutch I have for analog gear. THE FINAL STAGE .... The Mix Buss.
I still cannot justify unpatching my beloved Tube MU compressor, Its more for the sonics than for actual compression but the 3D soundstage and fullness is yet to be challenged buy any digital processor I know of yet. It seems to add enough harmonics to bring life back to anything digital lacks.
And to be fair a part of this may also be contributable to the DA/AD conversion of the Lavry convertors the DA part is quite stunning for a piece of gear who's process is often though of as a liability.
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Old 11th April 2014
  #874
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwilson View Post
And to be fair a part of this may also be contributable to the DA/AD conversion of the Lavry convertors the DA part is quite stunning for a piece of gear who's process is often though of as a liability.
Lavry is known for quality stuff...what liability are you speaking of?
Old 11th April 2014
  #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Lavry is known for quality stuff...what liability are you speaking of?
The loss of audio quality people fear when going through a digital conversion.
Old 12th April 2014
  #876
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwilson View Post
The loss of audio quality people fear when going through a digital conversion.
How much quality is lost though? Have you ever done a loopback test? Do a bunch of "generations" and then a phase reversal test.
Old 14th April 2014
  #877
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In the VMR is there going to be some way of "Y" connecting things (i.e. like half normal in a patch bay)? I often have to break a single track into two or three tracks in protools, when on a physical patchbay system all i have to do is a half normal.
Old 14th April 2014
  #878
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Thing is if you want a neve 1073 for tracking you will be stuck to the entire closed apple system slate is steering to.

Virtual mic, virtual pre, virtual eq, virtual comp, virtual desk

I wouldnt wanna work that way, ever.

If youre good at spending money, getting good deals, you can get the real thing for the same money. Its getting harder i admit it. But numbers like below even if out of reach for people who cant get enough business to afford those arent heard of even in 2014.

U47 5000€
1066 1000€
1176f 1500€

No you dont have 100 of those like with the virtual thing but you have 100% the real thing. Will work any pro tools version. And will not be worthless in 4 years. Make some music
Old 14th April 2014
  #879
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Thing is if you want a neve 1073 for tracking you will be stuck to the entire closed apple system slate is steering to.

Virtual mic, virtual pre, virtual eq, virtual comp, virtual desk

I wouldnt wanna work that way, ever.

If youre good at spending money, getting good deals, you can get the real thing for the same money. Its getting harder i admit it. But numbers like below even if out of reach for people who cant get enough business to afford those arent heard of even in 2014.

U47 5000€
1066 1000€
1176f 1500€

No you dont have 100 of those like with the virtual thing but you have 100% the real thing. Will work any pro tools version. And will not be worthless in 4 years. Make some music
Old 14th April 2014
  #880
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
Thing is if you want a neve 1073 for tracking you will be stuck to the entire closed apple system slate is steering to.

Virtual mic, virtual pre, virtual eq, virtual comp, virtual desk

I wouldnt wanna work that way, ever.
Why not? What if it sounds good and helps you make great music?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
If youre good at spending money, getting good deals, you can get the real thing for the same money. Its getting harder i admit it. But numbers like below even if out of reach for people who cant get enough business to afford those arent heard of even in 2014.

U47 5000€
1066 1000€
1176f 1500€

No you dont have 100 of those like with the virtual thing but you have 100% the real thing. Will work any pro tools version. And will not be worthless in 4 years. Make some music
My Lord, that is so much money for one single chain. And yes it will be real, but if the exact same sound can be had for 1/100th of the cash, AND you get 100x the channels, why is this a practical idea in 2014, when the business model of music does not support such high overhead for even the biggest studios?

Not to mention, you forgot that the VMR/VMS will also give you tons of other emulations, and you also forgot to add the Neve console in your quote to get the sound of the summing, so that's an extra $80,000 at least.

Cheers,
Steven
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Old 14th April 2014
  #881
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Why not? What if it sounds good and helps you make great music?



My Lord, that is so much money for one single chain. And yes it will be real, but if the exact same sound can be had for 1/100th of the cash, AND you get 100x the channels, why is this a practical idea in 2014, when the business model of music does not support such high overhead for even the biggest studios?

Not to mention, you forgot that the VMR/VMS will also give you tons of other emulations, and you also forgot to add the Neve console in your quote to get the sound of the summing, so that's an extra $80,000 at least.

Cheers,
Steven
Come On! Man!!...give us a release date!!!
Old 14th April 2014
  #882
You know Steven, I am soooo glad Waves raised the price of the Scheps 73. I almost bought it this weekend but didn't because of the higher price. Gives you another week to finish VMR!
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Old 14th April 2014
  #883
Azu
Gear Nut
 

Steven should plan working with Softube Console 1 on this one. Would add great value to the plugs.
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Old 14th April 2014
  #884
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
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Hi folks. I had a meeting with the programming team today. To be transparent, the VMR still has quite a bit of work. This is not just a plugin, but a platform. We are finalizing the entire architecture including the graphic implementations, preset handling, licensing, automation, and there are still a few minor tweaks of the algorithm happening because as I have said, this will be 100% authentic to the hardware and I will prove that yet again with A/B testing.

So, in an effort to break away from the classic Slate history of saying "soon" and then it's not the case, I will say that without any major unforeseen issue, we're looking at another 8 weeks or so. I apologize if this news is disheartening to some, but it is the necessary time needed to ensure that the VMR is the modern day classic that I intend it to be. I can promise you that:

- the emulations will be dead on
- it will work great
- it will be extremely affordable
- it will have 5 modules and the fifth surprise module is really incredible

So with that, I hope you all have a great day.

Cheers,
Steven
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Old 14th April 2014
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
So, in an effort to break away from the classic Slate history of saying "soon" and then it's not the case, I will say that without any major unforeseen issue, we're looking at another 8 weeks or so.
Old 14th April 2014
  #886
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kj.metissage's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Hi folks. I had a meeting with the programming team today. To be transparent, the VMR still has quite a bit of work. This is not just a plugin, but a platform. We are finalizing the entire architecture including the automation, the graphic implementations, preset handling, licensing, automation, and there are still a few minor tweaks of the algorithm happening because as I have said, this will be 100% authentic to the hardware and I will prove that yet again with A/B testing.

So, in an effort to break away from the classic Slate history of saying "soon" and then it's not the case, I will say that without any major unforeseen issue, we're looking at another 8 weeks or so. I apologize if this news is disheartening to some, but it is the necessary time needed to ensure that the VMR is the modern day classic that I intend it to be. I can promise you that:

- the emulations will be dead on
- it will work great
- it will be extremely affordable
- it will have 5 modules and the fifth surprise module is really incredible

So with that, I hope you all have a great day.

Cheers,
Steven
Come on man, end of june ? You wanna ruin our summer or what ?! I thought I would enjoy some sun this year. Nope, seems I'll be mixing in the bunker .

Just kiddin', hope it will kick ass heh !
Old 14th April 2014
  #887
Gear Head
Any hints as to what the 5th module will be?
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Old 14th April 2014
  #888
You definitely don't make my day Steven... For five months long I kept coming back to this thread for one purpose only: "is VMR ready?"
It probably will be like all other Slate Digital product announcements you made: the moment I use the plugin all empty promises are forgotten...

Old 14th April 2014
  #889
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Surprise module?
Still waiting for the surprise console
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Old 14th April 2014
  #890
Thanks for the transparency Steven, greatly appreciated. My mixes or ability to mix will not suffer one bit because of the delay and that's as it should be. When VMR is available it'll be great to have quality new tool to work with.
Old 14th April 2014
  #891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azu View Post
Steven should plan working with Softube Console 1 on this one. Would add great value to the plugs.
Would kick ass so hard!!
Old 14th April 2014
  #892
Azu
Gear Nut
 

It would. I started with Console 1 and then bought many plugs from them mainly for the ergonomics of Console 1.
Developers should consider this new platform not as a threat,but as added functionality to their products.
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Old 14th April 2014
  #893
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
surprise module?
Still waiting for the surprise console
+++1000000000000
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Old 14th April 2014
  #894
Gear Maniac
 

Steven,

With all due respect, NO plugin emulation to this day, as far as I can tell, has been 100% exactly like the hardware. I really don't see how a bunch of 1s and 0s can do this, quite frankly I think it's impossible. I know it's CLOSE...I use VCC, VTM combo all the time and plenty of emulation from others including the Scheps 73, however, I use them because they sound good, NOT because I feel like I am on par with someone who has a true Neve desk and a bunch of 1073s...coming off an MCI or Studer. As I've mentioned, I know it's close, and us ITB guys don't have much choice, but 100%? Really hope so...would be a true blessing.
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Old 14th April 2014
  #895
Gear Addict
 
James Talus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
Surprise module?
Still waiting for the surprise console
Maybe the surprise module IS the surprise console...
Old 14th April 2014
  #896
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosphinx View Post
Steven,

With all due respect, NO plugin emulation to this day, as far as I can tell, has been 100% exactly like the hardware. I really don't see how a bunch of 1s and 0s can do this, quite frankly I think it's impossible. I know it's CLOSE...I use VCC, VTM combo all the time and plenty of emulation from others including the Scheps 73, however, I use them because they sound good, NOT because I feel like I am on par with someone who has a true Neve desk and a bunch of 1073s...coming off an MCI or Studer. As I've mentioned, I know it's close, and us ITB guys don't have much choice, but 100%? Really hope so...would be a true blessing.
Hi. Surely you don't think that we can deconstruct genetic code, find ripples in the universe that justify the theories of the big bang, and create artificially intelligent processors that can compute one billion times faster than the human brain.... and yet we can't recreate some harmonics and saturation along with frequency and time? That's pretty silly.

But the proof as they say, is in the pudding. And we've done tons of A/B tests with the real gear and the result is always the same. People cannot distinguish a difference. The VTM that you use, and btw thank you for your support, was shot out against the real thing numerous times in front of very well respected engineers. Feel good knowing that it nails the sound, exactly.

And like it's predecessors in the Slate Digital line, I aim to make the VMR perfect, and will gladly shoot it out in blind A/B tests for all to hear. That's just what we do, and we're proud of it.

Cheers,
Steven
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Old 14th April 2014
  #897
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Hi. Surely you don't think that we can deconstruct genetic code, find ripples in the universe that justify the theories of the big bang, and create artificially intelligent processors that can compute one billion times faster than the human brain.... and yet we can't recreate some harmonics and saturation along with frequency and time? That's pretty silly.

But the proof as they say, is in the pudding. And we've done tons of A/B tests with the real gear and the result is always the same. People cannot distinguish a difference. The VTM that you use, and btw thank you for your support, was shot out against the real thing numerous times in front of very well respected engineers. Feel good knowing that it nails the sound, exactly.

And like it's predecessors in the Slate Digital line, I aim to make the VMR perfect, and will gladly shoot it out in blind A/B tests for all to hear. That's just what we do, and we're proud of it.

Cheers,
Steven
The products you put out are not in question, I use them, will continue to use them, and they are great. My skepticism is that digital "reproduction", because let's face it...it's a code to simulate the harmonics and what not...can not be 100% just like the hardware. If this were honestly true, ALL hardware companies would be out of business by now...I know your products are great, but I think even you would not argue that had you the choice of running your mixes through unlimited amounts of hardware instances of compression, EQs, or whatever, and the use of any analog desk you want, that you would opt for plugins instead...because after all, they are 100% accurate.

As for the VTM, yes, I like it and use it very much, but tape AFTER the fact, is not the same as recording TO the tape...there just has to be a difference...but I get your passion, and I appreciate your passion, but the "100% accurate" statement is very bold.

I question it for now, but I will certainly give the VMR a try as I like the concept very much, and having the VCC in a VMR rack would be awesome.
Old 15th April 2014
  #898
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosphinx View Post
My skepticism is that digital "reproduction", because let's face it...it's a code to simulate the harmonics and what not...can not be 100% just like the hardware.
Hi there. Apparently it can. Again, I reference the listening tests. If people can't hear the difference, then is there a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosphinx View Post
If this were honestly true, ALL hardware companies would be out of business by now...I know your products are great, but I think even you would not argue that had you the choice of running your mixes through unlimited amounts of hardware instances of compression, EQs, or whatever, and the use of any analog desk you want, that you would opt for plugins instead...because after all, they are 100% accurate.
I haven't used a piece of hardware on a mix in over a year. Not even my own DRAGON, in all honesty. The last song I mixed for myself was the RAVEN theme song. It actually uses the beta version of VMR and all my other analog modeled goodies and I love the way it sounds:
www.stevenslate.com/raven/RavenMaster1.wav

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosphinx View Post
As for the VTM, yes, I like it and use it very much, but tape AFTER the fact, is not the same as recording TO the tape...there just has to be a difference...but I get your passion, and I appreciate your passion, but the "100% accurate" statement is very bold.
Ha.. why would there be a difference? When you record to tape, you have a line output that gets recorded to it. With digital, this line ouput is captured transparently by an A/D converter. Our emulation applies the effect to this signal just as it does in the real world. So that is why when we split the sound of a microphone into the real tape machine and to the converter using the VTM, people could not distinguish a difference.

Again, there is no magic voodoo to sound. What we hear can be explained, rather easily now. Do you love the sound of a Neve mixer? There are no fairies in that thing, I've looked! It's harmonics, dynamic frequency response, saturation, and crosstalk to name but a few things. And when you recreate these digitally, it is no different than when the circuit creates them.

Thanks for your post, it's good to have this discussion.

Cheers,
Steven
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Old 15th April 2014
  #899
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post

Ha.. why would there be a difference? When you record to tape, you have a line output that gets recorded to it. With digital, this line ouput is captured transparently by an A/D converter. Our emulation applies the effect to this signal just as it does in the real world. So that is why when we split the sound of a microphone into the real tape machine and to the converter using the VTM, people could not distinguish a difference.

Again, there is no magic voodoo to sound. What we hear can be explained, rather easily now. Do you love the sound of a Neve mixer? There are no fairies in that thing, I've looked! It's harmonics, dynamic frequency response, saturation, and crosstalk to name but a few things. And when you recreate these digitally, it is no different than when the circuit creates them.

Thanks for your post, it's good to have this discussion.

Cheers,
Steven
The difference between recording to tape and VTM, is that the ORIGINAL source is recorded to tape...what VTM does, is adds what tape would have given the source but AFTER it's already recorded. I believe choices in EQ, mic position or what not are made based on how the source sounds and interacts coming off the tape head..what we are doing with VTM is just adding only a portion of the warmth and dynamics of tape I think. With real tape, there is no choice...you HAVE to record to it. Now, if you are saying that I can record through VTM with no latency and then it sounds like real tape, I can see your point. I personally haven't tried that, but I know of a lot of people who do it via the UAD platform and the Apollo...because of the latency or lack of latency issues.

Besides, Tape offered more separation between tracks more so that any DAW I have used...so now it brings a question to mind...does VTM replicate the actual track separation from a 24 track stack, and a 16 track stack? Maybe a later incarnation of VTM can have consecutive tracks, where each new instance of VTM will have the next track on the 24 trk machine? Not sure if this would make any difference.

I appreciate your feedback, and you taking the time to answer the questions..As I said, I am a fan, and don't mean to bash anything you do, just want to really get some clarification.
Old 15th April 2014
  #900
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosphinx View Post
The products you put out are not in question, I use them, will continue to use them, and they are great. My skepticism is that digital "reproduction", because let's face it...it's a code to simulate the harmonics and what not...can not be 100% just like the hardware. If this were honestly true, ALL hardware companies would be out of business by now...
Hardware companies won't go out of business because people don't want to believe what their ears are telling them. It really is as simple as that. Just like how a woman wants a real Louis Vuitton purse over a good/authentic fake one. Or why people buy Nike shoes even though other companies make better shoes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosphinx View Post
As for the VTM, yes, I like it and use it very much, but tape AFTER the fact, is not the same as recording TO the tape...there just has to be a difference...but I get your passion, and I appreciate your passion, but the "100% accurate" statement is very bold..
I agree with this and said it from the beginning when VTM was announced. Simulating the sound of a high quality D/A converter audio signal fed to a tape machine and then fed back into a high quality A/D converter is what VTM does. It's the closest a lot of us/the vast majority of us will get to recording directly to tape, due to budget constraints. If your converter sounds good VTM should sound very close though. Since I don't have access to a Studer machine and because my clients don't have the money to pay for a tape reel and expense for me to rent one, VTM is more than good enough for me.
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