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AES-NYC: Slate Digital Previews the VIRTUAL MIX RACK
Old 12th March 2014
  #751
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RaySoul's Avatar
 

Yeah. Meanwhile, VCC..... FG-X....
Old 12th March 2014
  #752
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If the eq's on the upcoming mix rack can beat their Nebula counterparts I'll be all smiles.
Old 12th March 2014
  #753
Gear Addict
DITTO Nebula

Nebula should really be the emulation standard for EQs. If you can convert a "Nebulite", you will have great success.
Old 12th March 2014
  #754
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChuck View Post
Dear Le Leevi

I'm on the right post alright, the one with you and others complaining about release dates every other post.

Why can't you Just make music using what you already have? How has Steven Slate disrupted your life so greatly by not releasing a product BEFORE IT IS READY?

Have you paid for your VMR yet? Will you still pay for it if it comes out and SUCKS?

If Steven Slate never releases another product ever again, it will not change one bit how I make my music,

The only way Steven Slate can affect the way I make my music, is by releasing a GREAT PRODUCT, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.

The product being released and performing as asvertised is GREATER THAN THE RELEASE DATE TO ME.

For you, it seems the product being released on the correct day is greater than the performance of the product.

Steven has announced some exciting future releases, some that could change how music is made, and which will allow producers with lower bugets, to compete with producers with no buget. If he can do that, I don't care what day he releases on, I only care about the end result.

You are exactly what I am posting about, not VTM. The VTM is a GREAT PRODUCT, I want the rest of the products from Slate to be just as great, screw the deadlines, and the dates, and the impatient wishy washy date watchers...

A professional on any level will use a great product on their music, A mediocre product that comes out on time is for people who have nothing better to do except cry about deadlines.

I care about my music, and I want Slate to make products that professionals can use, the only thing amatures seem to care about is release dates.

I hope Steven is reading. Catering to amatures will ruin you're credibility, and sink you're company into bankruptcy.

Great products will do the exact opposite.
This is silly. The whole point of making a pre release announcement is to build anticipation. That and prevent people from buying a competitors product. No one who likes slate products will buy the waves scheme plugin, for example.

As long as you are trying to generate interest and pre-empt competitors, it's unreasonable to complain about people pestering you for a release you promised. It hardly seems like a hardship. Yes, we can all work without it, and yes, we all want it to be good.

As for the argument that slate is catering to amateurs, that's really comical. Slate could not survive at the prices it charges if it only catered to "professionals" as you seem to be defining the term. If the product is good it doesn't matter who he is catering to, both parties will be satisfied, unless your sense of yourself as a professional is injured by amateurs having the same stuff?

For what it's worth, I use vcc and vtm a lot land will likely but vmr when it comes out
Old 12th March 2014
  #755
Lives for gear
I agree that building anticipation for a product is good amd wanting people to buy your product instead of someone elses, but hyping it to early can backfire as well still need to make and mix music and can't put that on hold to wait for this to br released. I'm torn between this and the softube console 1. i know kind of different products in the sense that console 1 comes with a hardware controller.
I'm still waiting for windows drivers for that so maybe ill just go with whatever gets released first, console one windows or slate .
Old 12th March 2014
  #756
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BigChuck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
This is silly. The whole point of making a pre release announcement is to build anticipation. That and prevent people from buying a competitors product. No one who likes slate products will buy the waves scheme plugin, for example.
How could Slate coming out on time with a program that doesn't work as promised, prevent people from buying a competitors product?

You say no one who likes Slate products will buy waves schem plugin,

WHAT IF SLATE PUTS OUT A NEW PRODUCT BEFORE IT'S READY, WOULD YOU USE A PRODUCT THAT DOESN'T WORK AS ADVERTISED ON YOUR MUSIC?

What about your favorite PROFESSIONAL ARTIST OR PRODUCER, WOULD THEY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
As long as you are trying to generate interest and pre-empt competitors, it's unreasonable to complain about people pestering you for a release you promised. It hardly seems like a hardship. Yes, we can all work without it, and yes, we all want it to be good.
Slate has already said the product IS STILL BEING WORKED ON, How could you want it to be good if you want it to come out even if it's not ready?

I'll admit if I were Slate, I would be careful about annoucing release dates, especially to GearSlutz.

I can tell, He was actually trying to be accomodating, and approachable, but some GearSlutz ARE BLOOD SUCKING LEATCHES.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
As for the argument that slate is catering to amateurs, that's really comical. Slate could not survive at the prices it charges if it only catered to "professionals" as you seem to be defining the term. If the product is good it doesn't matter who he is catering to, both parties will be satisfied, unless your sense of yourself as a professional is injured by amateurs having the same stuff?
Really comical? Really? All the products I use from Slate are worth more than their advertised prices, though I'm happy for the price point, the problem with catering to pros isn't price, once you have them they pay the big bucks, the problem with catering to pros only is that professionals have access to the actual HARDWARE.

It would take a lot of convincing to get them to drop their gear for software. But believe me, it's only a matter of time before someone wins a grammy using all 100% Slate products, that's whats at stake if Slate is dreaming big. Established Artist and Producers sucessfully using his products will create sales...

But according to you, companies who build products that cater exclusivly to professionals should not exist!

Do you own a Motif, or a Korg, or a Avalon 737, or a Neuman U87i, or a Sony 800G, or Protools HD?

According to you, those products should be bankrupting their host companies, not many amatures can afford them.

Oh yea, and there are plenty of expensive plugin's that amatures don't use because of price too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
For what it's worth, I use vcc and vtm a lot land will likely but vmr when it comes out
Well for what it's worth I use them too, but my point is, the reason that I use them is BECAUSE THEY WORK AS ADVERTISED.

Slate is on record saying that so far, VMR IS NOT READY TO RELEASE, THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON IT, MORE CHALLENGING THAN ANTICIPATED.....BUT COMING SOON!

My point is, I want the product when it is ready, screw the release date...

People here nagging about the release date aren't speaking for me. If it doesn't work when it comes out, guess what, professionals will still continue making music, it will just cost more...

I'm advocating for quality over release dates, the other way around because to me that's backwards.
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Old 12th March 2014
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bone View Post
I agree that building anticipation for a product is good amd wanting people to buy your product instead of someone elses, but hyping it to early can backfire as well still need to make and mix music and can't put that on hold to wait for this to br released. I'm torn between this and the softube console 1. i know kind of different products in the sense that console 1 comes with a hardware controller.
I'm still waiting for windows drivers for that so maybe ill just go with whatever gets released first, console one windows or slate .
I undrestand what you posted, but there is no way that I would wait for a plugin to release to finish a song!

The music must go on, with or without VMR...

When it's ready, then I will use it. Some people here seem to be insinuating that a delayed release by Slate has damaged their creative process.

That's crazy to me!!
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Old 12th March 2014
  #758
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doom64's Avatar
The poor/cheap/impatient man buys twice. When you buy with Slate you buy once and get quality results from the start.

Waves recently put out their second Neve EQ clone. How come they didn't get it right with the first one? To me, that's shady.

UAD put out mk II versions of their old plugins. How come they didn't get it right the first time? "DSP and CPU power wasn't as great back then." Sorry but that's a lousy excuse...if it didn't 95-100% emulate the sound then it shouldn't have been released.

I respect a company that upgrades their software for better sound quality when it's a free release. Recabinet does it and IK Multimedia has done it many times over the years. That shows a level of respect and loyalty to customers who have already given them their money.

I can't/won't respect a company that failed to properly model a plugin on the first go around and then charges for the incompetence. When I have to fix a mix that has something that is objectively wrong I don't charge my clients extra money...I fix it for no charge because *I* screwed up.
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Old 12th March 2014
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChuck View Post
I undrestand what you posted, but there is no way that I would wait for a plugin to release to finish a song!

The music must go on, with or without VMR...

When it's ready, then I will use it. Some people here seem to be insinuating that a delayed release by Slate has damaged their creative process.

That's crazy to me!!
I agree, i wouldn't stop writing on waiting for a plugin to be released or anything new to be released tbh.
Old 12th March 2014
  #760
Gear Addict
The design/development/marketing strategy or discipline Slate Digital is following that has resulted in this trend of long term pre-release announcements...........

......... is also the same design/development/marketing strategy or discipline that has created a portfolio of products that have ALL been WELL above average. Pretty scary consistency, actually. Like, some Babe Ruth pointing at the wall kinda ****.

Also, in other news, this is an internet thread. Just... uh, DON'T check it if it really frustrates you that much. Trust me, you'll KNOW when the product is released.
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Old 13th March 2014
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
The poor/cheap/impatient man buys twice. When you buy with Slate you buy once and get quality results from the start.

Waves recently put out their second Neve EQ clone. How come they didn't get it right with the first one? To me, that's shady.

UAD put out mk II versions of their old plugins. How come they didn't get it right the first time? "DSP and CPU power wasn't as great back then." Sorry but that's a lousy excuse...if it didn't 95-100% emulate the sound then it shouldn't have been released.

I respect a company that upgrades their software for better sound quality when it's a free release. Recabinet does it and IK Multimedia has done it many times over the years. That shows a level of respect and loyalty to customers who have already given them their money.

I can't/won't respect a company that failed to properly model a plugin on the first go around and then charges for the incompetence. When I have to fix a mix that has something that is objectively wrong I don't charge my clients extra money...I fix it for no charge because *I* screwed up.
I actually agree with this for the most part. And if they don't want to give the updates for free isn't at the least a discount in order to the people who already paid for the product.
Old 13th March 2014
  #762
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Callison's Avatar
I'm pretty sure nothing would be released if that were the case!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
if it didn't 95-100% emulate the sound then it shouldn't have been released.

I respect a company that upgrades their software for better sound quality when it's a free release. Recabinet does it and IK Multimedia has done it many times over the years. That shows a level of respect and loyalty to customers who have already given them their money.

I can't/won't respect a company that failed to properly model a plugin on the first go around and then charges for the incompetence. When I have to fix a mix that has something that is objectively wrong I don't charge my clients extra money...I fix it for no charge because *I* screwed up.
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Old 13th March 2014
  #763
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Leevi's Avatar
 

Steven, our saviour, when do we get samples?
Old 13th March 2014
  #764
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
The poor/cheap/impatient man buys twice. When you buy with Slate you buy once and get quality results from the start.

Waves recently put out their second Neve EQ clone. How come they didn't get it right with the first one? To me, that's shady.

UAD put out mk II versions of their old plugins. How come they didn't get it right the first time? "DSP and CPU power wasn't as great back then." Sorry but that's a lousy excuse...if it didn't 95-100% emulate the sound then it shouldn't have been released.

I respect a company that upgrades their software for better sound quality when it's a free release. Recabinet does it and IK Multimedia has done it many times over the years. That shows a level of respect and loyalty to customers who have already given them their money.

I can't/won't respect a company that failed to properly model a plugin on the first go around and then charges for the incompetence. When I have to fix a mix that has something that is objectively wrong I don't charge my clients extra money...I fix it for no charge because *I* screwed up.
Hopefully you now realize that your post didn't make much sense.

One would hope that in a forum frequented by so many brilliant developers for years, every other user would now have a better understanding of the ins and outs of this particular craft. Along with a bit of humility - and a sense of what technological progress is in regards to computers, programming, or audio technology.

Certainly the many talented people around here that made good use of the first Waves or UAD iterations of famous gears would have been better off not using any of them, while waiting years for technology/know-how to catch up and enable mk2s? You do realize that there can not be any better version of anything EVER before there is a first attempt at it, however good it is at the time? You do realize that this is the very reason why we can enjoy such great tools today?

What will you say 10 years from now, when Slate Digital comes with better yet versions of VCC, or its next big thing, that are simply not possible under today's CPU's constraints?

And years from now, will you keep on remixing old jobs for free because you got better at it, and the fact that you didn't have yet-to-come tools to make better use of yet-to-come technology or quality standards is a lousy excuse?

Truthfully: this is beyond ridiculous.
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Old 13th March 2014
  #765
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BigChuck's Avatar
 

I have an apointment this Monday, March 17th 2014 for mastering with Brian Gardner of Bernie Grundmans, I dropped his name on purpose to make my point.

Contained within my mixes are Slate Trigger, Slate VCC, Slate VBC, and Slate VTM, I also own Slate FG-X VMP, but for this project, it obviously wasn't used.

Guess what else I obviously didn't use?

I didn't use Slate VMR because it's NOT READY YET, I also didn't use the new Slate VMS because that's not ready yet either, but that doesn't stop me from doing what I love to do...

I will use VMR and VMS when they are ready, in the mean time, I will use the tools that I already have, earn a little money, and then use that money to buy into all of the hype and excitement.

Why should a delayed release hinder my passion?

The only differnce between a Pro and an Amature, is the way they approach their music.

True musicians and producers can make music with bottles, and they can change the tone with an empty cardboard box, of course a great plugin is also welcome...
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Old 13th March 2014
  #766
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by @l3x!5 View Post
Hopefully you now realize that your post didn't make much sense.

One would hope that in a forum frequented by so many brilliant developers for years, every other user would now have a better understanding of the ins and outs of this particular craft. Along with a bit of humility - and a sense of what technological progress is in regards to computers, programming, or audio technology.

Certainly the many talented people around here that made good use of the first Waves or UAD iterations of famous gears would have been better off not using any of them, while waiting years for technology/know-how to catch up and enable mk2s? You do realize that there can not be any better version of anything EVER before there is a first attempt at it, however good it is at the time? You do realize that this is the very reason why we can enjoy such great tools today?

What will you say 10 years from now, when Slate Digital comes with better yet versions of VCC, or its next big thing, that are simply not possible under today's CPU's constraints?

And years from now, will you keep on remixing old jobs for free because you got better at it, and the fact that you didn't have yet-to-come tools to make better use of yet-to-come technology or quality standards is a lousy excuse?

Truthfully: this is beyond ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous. Because when it comes to things like being a musician you can practice ad infinitum and get better ad infinitum. Or you could make a mix "better" ad infinitum. But when it comes to things like making an accurate clone it can only get better until the point when the clone is indistinguishable from the original. Once you reach that point there is no more room for improvement. His point is that if the goal is to make an accurate clone the product should not be released until the clone is indistinguishable from the original. Or if it was released before the product was finished to what it was intended to be in the first place then it should be finished for free (or in my world at least for a discount to those who already paid).
Old 13th March 2014
  #767
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I don't think it's ridiculous. Because when it comes to things like being a musician you can practice ad infinitum and get better ad infinitum. Or you could make a mix "better" ad infinitum. But when it comes to things like making an accurate clone it can only get better until the point when the clone is indistinguishable from the original. Once you reach that point there is no more room for improvement. His point is that if the goal is to make an accurate clone the product should not be released until the clone is indistinguishable from the original. Or if it was released before the product was finished to what it was intended to be in the first place then it should be finished for free (or in my world at least for a discount to those who already paid).
I actually find it quite surprising to have to clarify this.

The point is that today's (let alone a few years back's) technology does not allow to faithfully recreate x, y, z gear to the point that it is a perfect clone. That's 100% fine, though, because we are blessed with many talented developers, constantly making greater tools, always striving to find the right balance between whatever goal or perfection they aim to achieve, technological limitations of the times, usability, cost etc.

The point is that it is ridiculous to argue that users, or developers, should refrain to use, or release, anything until it is a 100% perfect recreation. Perfection is a matter of knowledge and perception, and is no less a moving target in any technological field than it is in artistic ones. Developers are doing their best at any given time, and improve upon as technology allows new implementations, ideas, concepts etc. to see the light.

Fortunately there are plenty of users who see no problem whatsoever in using state of the art technology of the times, even when it is clear as day that there is much room for improvement in the future. This is also how "the future" is funded.

I don't mean to sound rude, but this does not strike me as a difficult matter to apprehend. This is just the way things work in any given field, from mathematics to medicine to rocket science. This is just plain, everyday, human, progress.

Arguing that Waves should have released a 100% perfect emulation of a Neve EQ when they released the V-Series is not sound. No one in his right mind would argue that it was achievable at the time, yet plenty of people were very happy to have it in their arsenal when it got released. Waves did their best then, and were able to improve upon it years later, which is pretty good news. I have no doubt that Slate Digital will too find ways to improve upon their current product line as technology evolves, and I fail to see how any of this should be a source of discontentment.
Old 13th March 2014
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @l3x!5 View Post
I actually find it quite surprising to have to clarify this.

The point is that today's (let alone a few years back's) technology does not allow to faithfully recreate x, y, z gear to the point that it is a perfect clone. That's 100% fine, though, because we are blessed with many talented developers, constantly making greater tools, always striving to find the right balance between whatever goal or perfection they aim to achieve, technological limitations of the times, usability, cost etc.

The point is that it is ridiculous to argue that users, or developers, should refrain to use, or release, anything until it is a 100% perfect recreation. Perfection is a matter of knowledge and perception, and is no less a moving target in any technological field than it is in artistic ones. Developers are doing their best at any given time, and improve upon as technology allows new implementations, ideas, concepts etc. to see the light.

Fortunately there are plenty of users who see no problem whatsoever in using state of the art technology of the times, even when it is clear as day that there is much room for improvement in the future. This is also how "the future" is funded.

I don't mean to sound rude, but this does not strike me as a difficult matter to apprehend. This is just the way things work in any given field, from mathematics to medicine to rocket science. This is just plain, everyday, human, progress.

Arguing that Waves should have released a 100% perfect emulation of a Neve EQ when they released the V-Series is not sound. No one in his right mind would argue that it was achievable at the time, yet plenty of people were very happy to have it in their arsenal when it got released. Waves did their best then, and were able to improve upon it years later, which is pretty good news. I have no doubt that Slate Digital will too find ways to improve upon their current product line as technology evolves, and I fail to see how any of this should be a source of discontentment.
1+1 still = 2 no matter how technology may change.
Old 13th March 2014
  #769
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
1+1 still = 2 no matter how technology may change.
Pardon me, but how exactly does this pertain to the fact that both technological and knowledge advances allow developers to release software at a previously unattainable level (lather, rinse, repeat)?

If my memory serves me right, 1+1 were equal to 2 already at the time I got my first computer - still, developers back then were struggling with 64ko Ram and a 4 MHz processor. Last I've heard, they have yet to release that Neve perfect clone in BASIC 1.0.
Old 13th March 2014
  #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @l3x!5 View Post
Pardon me, but how exactly does this pertain to the fact that both technological and knowledge advances allow developers to release software at a previously unattainable level (lather, rinse, repeat)?
Because Slate's team doesn't release the product until they feel it is indistinguishable from the original. If it is truly indistinguishable from the original there is no improving upon it sonically for its intended purpose as a clone. And yes I understand your point which is why I am not saying they should give away the updates for free but at least at a discount to those who already paid for the mark I. Otherwise they render everyone's mark I worthless.
Old 13th March 2014
  #771
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Did you guys know that originally the movie "Man Of Steel" was called "Man Of Slate", but later the role of Superman was given to Henry Cavill, because Steven was working on VMR? There were also rumors that they found Steven's handsomeness too distracting. For the current economical situation, Warner Bros didn't want to take a risk like this. All of this may have contributed to the delay of VMR.
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Old 13th March 2014
  #772
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BigChuck's Avatar
 

I own an avalon 737 Mic Pre, I also own a Neauman U87i Microphone, again I am droping those names to make my point,

I DO NOT own a Neauman U47 Microphone, or a Vintage Neve Preamp though I would love to, it's just that those two products alone and USED, would cost an addtional 10's of thousands of dollars.

Would I be interested in using VMS which may 97% accuratly model a vintage Neauman U47, and 98% accurately model a Neve Preamp as part of my mic and preamp choices?

Absloutely 100% yes I would, but if the guy making the product tells me that with a little more time he can model the hardware with 100% accuracy, then damn it let him go for the 100%.

Screw dead lines, I understand the value, and the potential....
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Old 14th March 2014
  #773
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Because Slate's team doesn't release the product until they feel it is indistinguishable from the original. If it is truly indistinguishable from the original there is no improving upon it sonically for its intended purpose as a clone. And yes I understand your point which is why I am not saying they should give away the updates for free but at least at a discount to those who already paid for the mark I. Otherwise they render everyone's mark I worthless.
Slate Digital, as do other great companies out there, will release their products when they feel that they have done the absolute best work they could, at that time, given what then constitutes the state of the art. 20 years from now, what is regarded as absolute best in term of emulating analog will have greatly evolved, as it should - thanks in part to Slate Digital's awesome work. And I'm counting on Slate Digital and other great companies to take advantage of whatever advances future will hold (once again, thanks partly to their combined hard work) to bring the game even further.

It is because of Slate Digital and other great companies who feel that they ALWAYS can do better that the target of what constitutes "truly indistinguishable", "best of the best" etc. keeps moving. By pushing the limits. There is no "definite" anything. It's all a matter of time and perspective.

And yet, every step of the way, people will be saying: "That's it, it's done. We're there. Nothing will ever beat that. Time to ditch x, y, z" in response to the best products of the times, more often than not advertised as the end-all, be-all.

Until the next big thing from that same company or another.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Enjoy.
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Old 14th March 2014
  #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @l3x!5 View Post
Slate Digital, as do other great companies out there, will release their products when they feel that they have done the absolute best work they could, at that time, given what then constitutes the state of the art. 20 years from now, what is regarded as absolute best in term of emulating analog will have greatly evolved, as it should - thanks in part to Slate Digital's awesome work. And I'm counting on Slate Digital and other great companies to take advantage of whatever advances future will hold (once again, thanks partly to their combined hard work) to bring the game even further.

It is because of Slate Digital and other great companies who feel that they ALWAYS can do better that the target of what constitutes "truly indistinguishable", "best of the best" etc. keeps moving. By pushing the limits. There is no "definite" anything. It's all a matter of time and perspective.

And yet, every step of the way, people will be saying: "That's it, it's done. We're there. Nothing will ever beat that. Time to ditch x, y, z" in response to the best products of the times, more often than not advertised as the end-all, be-all.

Until the next big thing from that same company or another.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Enjoy.
Like I said 1+1=2. Indistinguishable = indistinguishable. And if it hasn't already been achieved it will be and at some point plugin manufacturers will realize they won't be able to make even 1 dollar making anything any more indistinguishable than it already is.
Old 17th March 2014
  #775
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Lolo22's Avatar
 

So whats happening with this
Old 17th March 2014
  #776
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolo22 View Post
So whats happening with this
Mostly esoteric debates guessing how close a plugin no one has heard sounds to the hardware it's imitating. The usual....
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Old 17th March 2014
  #777
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doom64's Avatar
There was three days of silence on this thread. We should keep it that way until some new info is released.
Old 17th March 2014
  #778
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Dan Eriksson's Avatar
Wake me up when its ready.

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Old 17th March 2014
  #779
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Originally Posted by Mini-Dan View Post
Wake me up when its ready.

Classic love that shot, might hve to nick it for my avatar!
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Old 18th March 2014
  #780
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-Dan View Post
Wake me up when its ready.

I believe this was in the movie, "The Rocker". :-)
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