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AES-NYC: Slate Digital Previews the VIRTUAL MIX RACK
Old 6th December 2013
  #451
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jalcide's Avatar
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Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
...It just destroys my hard work.
I totally get that. This happens anytime a mix is run through a box with tone, but in some ways that "hard work" need not be lost.

A good, balanced mix, at each stage, begets the next.

In my workflow, for example, each balanced mix is a stepping stone to the next stage of *whatever*; color, a DB or two of GR, etc.

In fact, I don't want my mix sounding "final" before it goes into, say, a mastering stage.

If I feel adding some tone is what the mix needs, and that tone changes the curve too much, I'll compensate for it.

In this way, I get to view my mix from several different "angles" along the signal path.

For example, I'll often create a K-14 spec'd stage. The K-14 mix has a certain vibe that is decidedly different than the DR8 spec'd version.

The tools I want to go from the cleaner K-14 mix to a more in-your-face DR8, are not just about DB, but about tone, character and harmonics. This is why I love choices like Slate's in that final stage.
Old 7th December 2013
  #452
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Being that Slate and Fabrice are modeling circuits, it may not even be possible to separate the compression from the tone. The two could be intertwined in the design of this particular circuit. Same reason why removing the noise could be be more difficult than just adding a volume control for it.

BTW, the deciding factor for my having just recently bought VBC is the FG-Mu. I could probably live without the Red and the Gray (which are great in their own right), but there's nothing I like as much on piano and guitars as the Mu. Sounds fantastic on certain mixes too. It's a lot of color, but when it works it really works well.
Old 7th December 2013
  #453
Gear Head
 

all this discussion about color...and eq....and curves...and where is the music guys??...70's stuff full of color...is it matters...no"!!...the music was awesome...2013 stuff...to digital...is it matters???..no!!!....the music dictates everything...an eq curve means nothing along side a good song!!!...relax and enjoy music...just like a non sound educated would!!!...

And VBC is the best compressor for stereo stuff.....period...but...who really cares???

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Old 7th December 2013
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordokiller View Post
all this discussion about color...and eq....and curves...and where is the music guys??...70's stuff full of color...is it matters...no"!!...the music was awesome...2013 stuff...to digital...is it matters???..no!!!....the music dictates everything...an eq curve means nothing along side a good song!!!...relax and enjoy music...just like a non sound educated would!!!...

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Can´t enjoy music if the upper mids tear my head off and I also like to have some big old bass in my music.

Honestly, 70´s music sounds like crap to my ears these days, but good music nonetheless. Music these days sounds so much better and in my opinion is much better also (not talking about the mainstream crap although mainstream mixes sound great).

So I don´t really get this worship of old analog gear? ´Cause the music made with them didn´t sound very good at all. I find that all the gear analog&digital these days are better and people are making better sounding music than ever.
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Old 7th December 2013
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Can´t enjoy music if the upper mids tear my head off and I also like to have some big old bass in my music.

Honestly, 70´s music sounds like crap to my ears these days, but good music nonetheless. Music these days sounds so much better and in my opinion is much better also (not talking about the mainstream crap although mainstream mixes sound great).

So I don´t really get this worship of old analog gear? ´Cause the music made with them didn´t sound very good at all. I find that all the gear analog&digital these days are better and people are making better sounding music than ever.
At first I thought it was a joke.

I clearly disagree.
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Old 7th December 2013
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash View Post
At first I thought it was a joke.

I clearly disagree.
No joke.

Even TV is a good example. Just watch music TV shows from 70´s and then watch newest season of The Voice or something for example. You´re honestly saying 70´s sound better?
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Old 7th December 2013
  #457
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Can´t enjoy music if the upper mids tear my head off and I also like to have some big old bass in my music.

Honestly, 70´s music sounds like crap to my ears these days, but good music nonetheless. Music these days sounds so much better and in my opinion is much better also (not talking about the mainstream crap although mainstream mixes sound great).

So I don´t really get this worship of old analog gear? ´Cause the music made with them didn´t sound very good at all. I find that all the gear analog&digital these days are better and people are making better sounding music than ever.
Wait. You don't like the upper mids to tear your head off and you prefer modern production to 70s production?

My head is spinning.

We must have been exposed to 100% different material from today and from the 70s.
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Old 8th December 2013
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
Wait. You don't like the upper mids to tear your head off and you prefer modern production to 70s production?

My head is spinning.

We must have been exposed to 100% different material from today and from the 70s.
Well I don´t know what you are listening, but there is not too much upper mids in modern productions. Usually it´s just about right. If you would insert the MU in a modern production, it would make it too harsh and take the bass away.

Just listened to some Led Zeppelin to refresh my memory. Sounds like total crap, but the music is great!
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Old 8th December 2013
  #459
Gear Head
 

that's my point....it doesn't matter if the sound is not perfect...what's matter is the music...if it moves you...that's not an eq curve...it is what comes first....music...anyway...VBC has vibe and for me that's what matters!!....cheers

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Old 8th December 2013
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordokiller View Post
that's my point....it doesn't matter if the sound is not perfect...what's matter is the music...if it moves you...that's not an eq curve...it is what comes first....music...anyway...VBC has vibe and for me that's what matters!!....cheers

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Of course, but music and sounds go hand in hand. Without sounds music is just notes on a paper and the better the sounds sound, the more it moves people.

I don´t think any plugins (or analog gear) have "vibe", I mean what is that? They are just tools to shape your sounds to sound good. And the tools that have more options and choises help me to achieve that better.
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Old 8th December 2013
  #461
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
To each his own indeed.

Seems like your mix was not there in the first place, if you need this upper mids boost and I believe there´s a bass cut also. So actually you didn´t put enough upper mids to your mix and also you put too much bass.

For me if I need upper mids, I don´t want a stupid compressor to make that decision. I want to dial those upper mids in there myself with an EQ and with the correct frequencies I want and just the right amount! Not a predetermined frequency with a predetermined db amount.

For me I get the EQ right first, so it´s not "last polish" for me. It actually destroys my good sound and makes it thinner = UNUSABLE PLUGIN.

Same with UBK-1. BS plugins/hardware!
You guys do know that buss compressors are more often than not mixed into from the start of a mix as opposed to slapped on at the end after it's finished...right? If you want clean/transparent that can be slapped on at the end of a mix get FG-X and use the FG-Comp module.
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Old 8th December 2013
  #462
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
I appreciate that, but…

I come from the analog age and I always hated how some analog gear would mess up my sound. Some call it "color". Sometimes I would like the color, sometimes not. The problem is, if I didn´t like the color (but liked the compression) I didn´t have the choise "turn the color off" and back in the day I didn´t have that many compressors to choose from, so I was stuck with the color and had to spend extra time tweaking EQs and what not to "fix the color". So this is the same thing with MU. If I use it, I have to spend time and fix the color.

So digital has been a blessing for me, ´cause I have CHOICES. But now I´m beginning to notice this trend when developers take that choise away, just like in the analog days, but it´s not analog age anymore! That is backward thinking and it really annoys the hell out of me and I´m speaking against this!

I understand if I don´t like the "color" of the MU, I can just grab another compressor plugin, but if I really like the compression on my track, but not the color, which most of the time is the case, ´cause I like to dial the EQ myself and not let some predetermined "tone box" dictate it, it just sucks big time!

I like EQs as EQs and compressors as compressors. At least give us the choise for gods sake!
I think you'll like DMG Audio's Compassion and EQuilibrium plugins. VBC is all about the color/character. Using VBC and complaining about the color it adds is like ordering a cheeseburger and then complaining to the restaurant manager that they put cheese on the meat.
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Old 8th December 2013
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
You guys do know that buss compressors are more often than not mixed into from the start of a mix as opposed to slapped on at the end after it's finished...right? If you want clean/transparent that can be slapped on at the end of a mix get FG-X and use the FG-Comp module.
I don´t mind mixing into compressors, but not into compressors with a predetermined EQ curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
I think you'll like DMG Audio's Compassion and EQuilibrium plugins. VBC is all about the color/character. Using VBC and complaining about the color it adds is like ordering a cheeseburger and then complaining to the restaurant manager that they put cheese on the meat.
Nope, bad analogy. Better one would be: It´s like going to a restaurant where you don´t have the cheese and non cheese option.

I´ll give you another one: It´s like going to a restaurant where they don´t serve water, only flavored water.

I love EQuilibrium! Hardly use any other EQs anymore. I find APIs, Neves, SSLs and whatnot so limiting.
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Old 8th December 2013
  #464
Gear Head
 

i think the best way of complain is not using it, just take it for what it is....

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Old 8th December 2013
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordokiller View Post
i think the best way of complain is not using it, just take it for what it is....

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Exactly, can't agree more.
Old 8th December 2013
  #466
Good news for everyone who want clean and transparent compression without harmonic distortion and EQ-like changes (ie not sounding like classic analog boxes) - these plugs are often much cheaper than their modelling counterparts! Maybe even the stock DAW plugs can be adequate, I think for instance the Logic compressor is very nice and tweakable if I don't want colour!
Old 8th December 2013
  #467
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jalcide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
It´s like going to a restaurant where they don´t serve water, only flavored water.
Exactly. It's like taking a tour at the World of Coca-Cola and ordering club soda at the tasting bar.


heh Just teasing ya'. Confession: If the FU-MU had a wet-dry knob for just the transformer section, I would use it.
Old 8th December 2013
  #468
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Well I don´t know what you are listening, but there is not too much upper mids in modern productions. Usually it´s just about right. If you would insert the MU in a modern production, it would make it too harsh and take the bass away.

Just listened to some Led Zeppelin to refresh my memory. Sounds like total crap, but the music is great!
Wow, I love the way those albums sound, way more than anything I hear nowadays. Actually like the sound way more than the music itself (and of course the drumming is amazing).

The mid bump is extreme, but Steven is right its in line with what transformers could do. You should check out Klangehlm DC8C2 if you haven't already. Like compassion but better I think (by quite a lot).
Old 8th December 2013
  #469
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Well I don´t know what you are listening, but there is not too much upper mids in modern productions. Usually it´s just about right. If you would insert the MU in a modern production, it would make it too harsh and take the bass away.

Just listened to some Led Zeppelin to refresh my memory. Sounds like total crap, but the music is great!
Ahh ok. That tells me everything I need to know. Not knocking your taste; we're just in different sonic universes so any discussion is largely pointless.
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Old 9th December 2013
  #470
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Well I don´t know what you are listening, but there is not too much upper mids in modern productions. Usually it´s just about right. If you would insert the MU in a modern production, it would make it too harsh and take the bass away.

Just listened to some Led Zeppelin to refresh my memory. Sounds like total crap, but the music is great!
Woah! I love stopping by the Slate threads when I'm bored. They are always so full of character.

Sometimes I hear older recording that I grew up listening to and think "man, I would have mixed that so differently" (early Police comes to mind). I quickly put myself in check though, realizing the reason I am hearing those recordings still today is because those decisions were made by the guys I learned from. The magic is there.

As for your preference to modern recordings I can't understand that at all. Seems more and more the stuff I am hearing sounds like someone took a cassette tape of the band, blasted it through a boom box, and recorded it back again through a cheap pair of Chinese condensers pegging the red the whole way through. There's some great sounding stuff out there, but it's definitely not the majority.

I was pointing out to a buddy a week or so ago that whenever I play a recently released commercial track the music starts and the meter goes to the red and doesn't move. Picking some of my old favorites is a quick and easy way to demonstrate how the meter is "supposed" to dance to the music. Hell, even the latest Jack Johnson record lights the red and stays there, and that's a guy playing an acoustic and singing over it.

As far as "the lows" and the "upper mids" and "something with the upper mids", etc. it's all bull****. Get 5 Gearslutz in a room together and play them the same piece of music and I'll bet every one has a different idea of what "upper mids" even are.

S. Slate says the Mu is designed to be mixed into. I agree there is a prominent EQ character associated with the Mu plugin, but if you mix into your decisions will be based around it. Seems a lot of guys are doing just that and liking what the results are like. If you don't like it, be thankful there are dozens of great software compressors now. There should be more than a few you DO like.

BTW, that new UAD Fairchild 660/670 bundle is killer. The old version was nothing special at all but this new stuff is great. Between Dr. Berners and Fabrice Gabriel it looks like the next generation of plugin advancement has arrived.
Old 9th December 2013
  #471
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Another one that completely missed the point!

Options are good in this digital age. Options don´t hurt anyone. We don´t live anymore in the 70´s were there wasn´t too many options. So why try to go backwards and not forwards?

I just don´t get this "analog hype". It´s all nostalgia!
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Old 9th December 2013
  #472
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feck's Avatar
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Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
I just don't get this "analog hype". It´s all nostalgia!
Apparently, so are great sounding recordings.
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Old 9th December 2013
  #473
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Birdland101's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
I don´t mind mixing into compressors, but not into compressors with a predetermined EQ curve.
+1
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Old 9th December 2013
  #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Apparently, so are great sounding recordings.
Pretty much all the records that I use to think sounded amazing now just sound very outdated. I still love the records, but they don´t sound very good at all! Records these days sound much better and the loudness war is over too.
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Old 9th December 2013
  #475
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Leevi's Avatar
 

Slate needs to model Howie's Pultec!
Old 9th December 2013
  #476
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The Vulture's Avatar
 

Any date yet?

But every compressor Changes the eq.
That problem I can not see..
Old 9th December 2013
  #477
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vulture View Post
Any date yet?

But every compressor Changes the eq.
That problem I can not see..
This is true. The problem is that some people (myself included) don't like the pronounced mid/hi-mid bump that the FG-MU imparts. And that puts us in the unthinkable spot of having to choose a different compressor and use that one instead.

How dare they!
Old 9th December 2013
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leevi View Post
Slate needs to model Howie's Pultec!
That too !

Now I was thinking, wouldn't it be easier in the digital realm, to add a "DRIVE" knob to the FG-N or FG-S to overload them ?

Instead of having to add a massive amount of input gain using either another plugin, or the DAW's mixer input gain control ?

If we already have our stuff levelled (VU -18dBFS RMS in that case, like analog gear) and only want to add subtle or obvious saturation without changing the loudness too much, it would make more sense isn't it ?

Just saying...

PS : I expect more saturation from the FG-N than the FG-Red. Because with the drive at 10, it still isn't that obvious IMHO.
Old 10th December 2013
  #479
Gear Addict
 

yeah drive knob for the win!

and some easy sidechain options too (in cubase.....)
Old 10th December 2013
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
This is true. The problem is that some people (myself included) don't like the pronounced mid/hi-mid bump that the FG-MU imparts. And that puts us in the unthinkable spot of having to choose a different compressor and use that one instead.

How dare they!
Again I can not see a problem.

But once again I will say how much I dislike this hypemachine and markedting scheme.
Cubase annonced 7.5 and released within days.
I like slate plugins but there are no intelligent marketing sceme.
If you miss "the legendary awesome everlasting low price ever business" sale.
It will still last a month.....

I know no one cares but still....
Fukkin hate that ****..
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