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Will you buy products that use a dongle? DAW Software
View Poll Results: Will you buy software that uses a dongle?
Yes. I don't mind.
54 Votes - 25.00%
No. I refuse.
112 Votes - 51.85%
Maybe. It depends on the product.
50 Votes - 23.15%
Voters: 216. You may not vote on this poll

Old 12th August 2013
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Will you buy products that use a dongle?

iLok's new feature where licenses can be stored on a computer instead of a dongle is a great thing. I have been weening myself off of dongled software and I refuse to buy anything new that still uses a dongle. Unfortunately, most companies who use iLok have yet to take advantage of this feature because it requires a bit of work on their side - it's not automatic.

I just wanted to do a quick poll to show any plug-in company representatives who might be reading this thread how much support there is behind getting rid of dongles and how much revenue they are potentially losing every day they still use one.

Maybe this will get the ball rolling a bit faster so that we don't have a long, slow painful transition to the new computer licenses like we did for the transition to 64bit.
Old 12th August 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I sold my ilok2 about 3 months ago. Once Waves went ilok free, I paid the upgrade price for my 5 or 6 waves plugins and never needed my ilok. I had considered getting SoundToys but went against it, due to ilok and lack of 64bit support.

I use mostly stock plugins, and a few Airwindows stuff too.
I've gone UAD for my fancier plugins lately, but their copy protection system is more complex. Copy protection in the guise of needless DSP processors...

Great sounding plugs though, to be fair....
Old 12th August 2013
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrum View Post
I had considered getting SoundToys but went against it
Soundtoys (mosty EchoBoy) was a big reason for keeping the iLok for a long time. I've finally let them go until they adopt the new computer license feature. I definitely won't be buying anything new.

I actually think it was a good move, because now my delays don't sound like everyone else's delays anyway!
Old 12th August 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Honestly do not see the problem with them.
Old 12th August 2013
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by offki View Post
Honestly do not see the problem with them.
The problem for me Offki, is that I am on a laptop and I travel a lot. I have a limited number of USB ports and limited space.

USB hubs require a power supply and fail quite often - I've been through 4 or 5. Not only that, but the iLok has severe problems being recognized when it goes through a USB hub instead of directly into a USB port on your computer - it's been a hit or miss experience for me.

Also, the idea that thousands of dollars of software is entirely dependent on whether or not I can keep track of a 2 inch piece of plastic while I travel is not so comforting, especially thinking about how many lighters I've lost in the past.

Lastly, there are companies that have found a better way to do business (e.g. Plugin-Alliance, Waves, PSP, etc.). I know my licenses are secure forever with them and I don't have to keep track of anything or buy extra gear just to make them work. Plus, if they can do it, then why can't everyone else?

Even iLok themselves know they suck or else they wouldn't be implementing this new feature that will allow for licenses to be stored on a cloud or a particular computer. I am only advocating that plug-in companies take advantage of this feature - which most haven't yet.

All of these problems compound - and I have only mentioned when the activations works properly, which is only about 4 times out of 5.
Old 12th August 2013
  #6
Gear Maniac
Hey Delano, is Pro Tools compatible with this new feature? And Slate plug ins?

Thanks!
Old 12th August 2013
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

I don't know about Pro Tools or Slate, but here are the developers I have talked to:

- SoundToys: "We are aware. It's actually a system we have to implement, so it will take some time, but we do plan to utilize this new feature as soon as possible."

- UVI.net: "As you can imagine, we are studying the new system, and we have good hope that it could be possible. Perhaps of the beginning of next year, but not sure ;-)"

- Kush Audio: They're looking into it.

- Abbey Road: "We do not currently have any plans to support this feature, but we have made a note of your comments and will ensure to keep them in mind and pass them on to our developers when appropriate."

I suggest if you have products that use iLok and you want this feature that you e-mail the company and let it be known that you support it.
Old 12th August 2013
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
djemberecords's Avatar
 

One of the reasons I use REAPER, a ton of free plug-ins and purchased plug-ins that are not a hassle to use plus easy and legal to install on more than one machine. This includes Image Line, Cakewalk and a couple others.
Old 12th August 2013
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
The problem for me Offki, is that I am on a laptop and I travel a lot. I have a limited number of USB ports and limited space.

USB hubs require a power supply and fail quite often - I've been through 4 or 5. Not only that, but the iLok has severe problems being recognized when it goes through a USB hub instead of directly into a USB port on your computer - it's been a hit or miss experience for me.

Also, the idea that thousands of dollars of software is entirely dependent on whether or not I can keep track of a 2 inch piece of plastic while I travel is not so comforting, especially thinking about how many lighters I've lost in the past.

Lastly, there are companies that have found a better way to do business (e.g. Plugin-Alliance, Waves, PSP, etc.). I know my licenses are secure forever with them and I don't have to keep track of anything or buy extra gear just to make them work. Plus, if they can do it, then why can't everyone else?

Even iLok themselves know they suck or else they wouldn't be implementing this new feature that will allow for licenses to be stored on a cloud or a particular computer. I am only advocating that plug-in companies take advantage of this feature - which most haven't yet.

All of these problems compound - and I have only mentioned when the activations works properly, which is only about 4 times out of 5.
I love my iloks. I take them with me if I need to mix a song some where else. Also, I think it's great that companies have a good way to secure their software.

Nothing wrong with the other methods, but ilok is a good thing :-)
Old 12th August 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
hyposonic's Avatar
 

the latest GRM Tools release allows you to deposit your licenses on the computer instead of the iLok.
Old 12th August 2013
  #11
Gear Nut
 

I bought some Waves plugins when they ditched ilok (and lowered their prices).
But then again i use Cubase/eLicenser and have a UAD2 card...
Sure,i prefer non dongle software
Old 12th August 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
kim olesen's Avatar
 

I miss having my waves plugin licenses on my ilok. Much more convenient when using a laptop for mobile work and desktop for work in the studio.
Old 12th August 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
iLex's Avatar
Wow, relatively many people refusing
I don't particularly like dongles.
But if I really want a piece of software... I want that piece of software, whether it comes with a dongle or not.
Old 12th August 2013
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLex View Post
Wow, relatively many people refusing
I don't particularly like dongles.
But if I really want a piece of software... I want that piece of software, whether it comes with a dongle or not.
It's like meeting this really perfect, hot and amazing girl who wants to sleep with you...but she has herpes. What to do? What to do...
Old 12th August 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
 
iLex's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaks Dude View Post
It's like meeting this really perfect, hot and amazing girl who wants to sleep with you...but she has herpes. What to do? What to do...
Ehhhhh yes.... almost the same......
Old 12th August 2013
  #16
damn, I thought I'd be in the minority after voting that I refuse

I guess I'm not alone

I'm going to make an exception for Cubase 7 though
Old 12th August 2013
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kim olesen View Post
I miss having my waves plugin licenses on my ilok. Much more convenient when using a laptop for mobile work and desktop for work in the studio.
Kim,

This is not an either or situation is it? You can still put waves licenses on a physical dongle even with the new cloud features.
Old 12th August 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
iLex's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmicide View Post
damn, I thought I'd be in the minority after voting that I refuse

I guess I'm not alone

I'm going to make an exception for Cubase 7 though
That's not really refusing is it now?
Old 12th August 2013
  #19
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLex View Post
That's not really refusing is it now?
I used to know this really strict vegan who told me that, sometimes, he treats himself to a big, fat steak.
Old 12th August 2013
  #20
I hated iLoks for EVER until the new Slate VCC, VTM, and VBC came out. Now Im on the dark side. What can I say. I'd ditch iLok in a minute though.
Old 12th August 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
Personally I just bought into the iLok system, b/c I wanted plugins that are iLok only and don't want to go the illegit route.

I really just see it as the price of admission at this point. I can't say it's gotten in the way of me making music. However... I am indeed on a desktop and can add USB slots via PCI if I need to.


I feel for my laptop brethen. But I think desktops are the way to do for audio... unless you are TRULY a nomad and must do your work on a laptop, where you're plugging into various studios. However... i'd be willing to bet that 90% of laptop users do NOT need a laptop for production like they think they do. They probably don't even move their laptop at all. And if they do... it's just for 1-2 flights per year, where you didn't get much production/mixing done anyway.

I had a laptop for production, and I legitimately did travel to other friends houses to produce. But 1) lugging my monitors, controllers, laptop, interface was a PITA and wouldn't have made a difference if i took the desktop with me too... 2) the laptop naturally lacks power since the CPU isn't allowed to get as hot. Once I figured that out... i went thr desktop route. My back and knees thank me for not traveling so much, and letting people come to me. Lugging equipment sucks.

Sorry for going way left here... but I just think studios should have a desktop.. .and a desktop gives you more USB connectivity, and therefore makes "lack of USB ports" a more manageable issue.

As a result... i'm okay with iLok.... until it starts getting in the way of my production/mixing, which i can't say has happened yet. But I truly feel for the people this did happen to with the latest update.

I wouldn't be mad at a dongle-less world... but i'm okay with it.


PS.. I have Ilok and Codemeter (b/c of Reason). I admittedly would NOT buy a product that uses a third dongle... just for principle. So maybe I'm not so much in disagreeance with the majority as I thought!
Old 12th August 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrum View Post
I sold my ilok2 about 3 months ago. Once Waves went ilok free, I paid the upgrade price for my 5 or 6 waves plugins and never needed my ilok. I had considered getting SoundToys but went against it, due to ilok and lack of 64bit support.

I use mostly stock plugins, and a few Airwindows stuff too.
I've gone UAD for my fancier plugins lately, but their copy protection system is more complex. Copy protection in the guise of needless DSP processors...

Great sounding plugs though, to be fair....
No more, I have an iLok1 with only 2 licenses on it, Melodyne, and Plugsound Pro.

Celemony gives the option for a web authorization, don't really care about Plug Sound Pro Library any more.

I can use the library with the FREE UVI Workstation, I like the app works great with .rx2., or a basic sampler.

If they ditched the iLok I would be on their new instruments!

I picked up an Apollo, a dongle of sorts, so I'm not tempted by most processing plugs.

Instruments is another issue.

Nothing wrong with Airwindow's plugs.

Old 12th August 2013
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Synth Buddha's Avatar
iLok is the only dongle I'm never buying any more products for. eLicencer rocks, no issues with that one ever. So I'm happy with dongles, just not iLok.
Old 12th August 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
I have an ilok, which I bought before ever using one when I got Slate VCC. I hated the thing--hated the creepy setup procedure, hated the way it made me feel like some kind of criminal the software maker needs to be protected against. I never had the problems that other users had, but I'm astonished how many people got screwed by their last software upgrade debacle. Software makers need to know how much people dislike the ilok. Ive spent significant amounts of time searching for alternatives to dongle-ware. There are lots of good alternatives out there.
Old 12th August 2013
  #25
Lives for gear
 
kim olesen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
Kim,

This is not an either or situation is it? You can still put waves licenses on a physical dongle even with the new cloud features.
True that. But i already have an ilok for autotune etc so to me it would be much more convenient to just have one dongle and no licences in the sky etc. (or even more dongles)
Old 12th August 2013
  #26
I guess, at least in this thread, that I'm in the minority. Given that I move around from studio to studio, I absolutely HATE plugins that require passcodes, and challenge/responses. I now ONLY buy plugins that use iLok as it's SO much easier to travel with.

Big thumbs up for iLok from me.
Old 12th August 2013
  #27
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by delano22 View Post
I don't know about Pro Tools or Slate, but here are the developers I have talked to:

- SoundToys: "We are aware. It's actually a system we have to implement, so it will take some time, but we do plan to utilize this new feature as soon as possible."

- UVI.net: "As you can imagine, we are studying the new system, and we have good hope that it could be possible. Perhaps of the beginning of next year, but not sure ;-)"

- Kush Audio: They're looking into it.

- Abbey Road: "We do not currently have any plans to support this feature, but we have made a note of your comments and will ensure to keep them in mind and pass them on to our developers when appropriate."

I suggest if you have products that use iLok and you want this feature that you e-mail the company and let it be known that you support it.
Thanks!
Old 12th August 2013
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I used to know this really strict vegan who told me that, sometimes, he treats himself to a big, fat steak.
hopefully Cubase is my big fat steak, I've gone through enough DAWs already
Old 12th August 2013
  #29
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by conleec View Post
I guess, at least in this thread, that I'm in the minority. Given that I move around from studio to studio, I absolutely HATE plugins that require passcodes, and challenge/responses. I now ONLY buy plugins that use iLok as it's SO much easier to travel with.

Big thumbs up for iLok from me.
I understand that, BUT those companies could still implement the new iLok computer license feature for those of us who don't want the dongle.

It's possible to do both and there is a market for both and only choosing 1 way or the other is alienating customers, as proven by the poll.

There are already companies who do both...iZotope for one...I think Drumagog?...Waves has the cloud or a dongle.
Old 13th August 2013
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenix View Post
But I think desktops are the way to do for audio... unless you are TRULY a nomad and must do your work on a laptop, where you're plugging into various studios. However... i'd be willing to bet that 90% of laptop users do NOT need a laptop for production like they think they do. They probably don't even move their laptop at all. And if they do... it's just for 1-2 flights per year, where you didn't get much production/mixing done anyway.
Nope. I move it all the time. I can write/mix by the beach, at other peoples studios, at musician's houses, anywhere I want to.

In David Byrne's book "How Music Works" he describes how he, a huge musician/producer, only uses a laptop, even in the studio. He gives some good reasoning. Pretty good book.
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