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Izotope RX2 vs Waves Audio Restoration plugins
Old 22nd March 2013
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Izotope RX2 vs Waves Audio Restoration plugins

Izotope RX2 cause my Logic to crash a lot, I haven't had any crashes for 2 years until i started using Izotope plugins. RX2 causes a lot of latency real time and offline which misaligns all my bounces, worst of all, it misaligns all the automations too. RX2 is a real life saver to me, can't live without it now even though its so problematic.

Has anyone here used the Waves audio restoration and noise reduction plugins? How are they compare to the Izotope RX2?

9.1.8 and 10.8.3 here
Old 22nd March 2013
  #2
TNM
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
that's weird! you are definitely using the very latest version of RX correct?

Of course they have massive latency and so do the waves ones ( i own both)

it should NOT mess with the automation if plug in delay compensation is enabled in logic. From what i have seen the RX plugins DO report their latency to Logic correctly.

Now unfortunately the honest answer is the waves are not as good. That does not mean they are bad, but with the declicker for example i can never get anywhere with the waves. The RX one does an amazing job for me. Z Noise which is NOT part of the package is better then the X-Noise, and the new simple one knob NS1 is funnily enough, very good. Z Noise has a realtime mode where it can work without taking a fingerprint, or with one. It's your choice. So it has that advantage over RX but ultimately it's noise removal has more artefacts, but it's "ok".

Did you consider sonnox? they are great! I would say from my own opinion the best of the AU plugins, but i never bought them cause of the price, so i only lust!

Finally, the best i have ever used in my experience is the powercore ones. WOW.
Are you on a mac pro by any chance? you can buy a powercore pcie card for $200 ob ebay probably and the denoiser is FREE and it is AMAZING. it has the least artefacts i have ever heard.

Would you consider demonising the files in another program then importing them into logic? Adobe Audition has absolutely superb noise reduction tools built in, and is my favourite audio editor. Another option is the $100 wavelab elements 7 which has 3 sonnox vst 3 plugins, stripped down versions but still good quality!

Hope that helps.

CHeers
Old 22nd March 2013
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive reply.

I am using the latest version of RX2 (v2.1) and mountain lion on a 2X2.66GHz Quad-core MacPro. I have enabled delay compensation and also tried both the freeze and unfreeze options, didn't seem to make much deference. From my understanding, the declicker is the plugin that causes the latency and declipper (and sometimes the decrackler) is causing the crashes. They are a real godsend for restorting some of the old recordings I made and they work exactly how they're supposed to very well, apart from the crashes and the delays and mis-alignments.

The other plugins you suggested like the the Sonnox looked tempting but like you said, are a bit pricey and for my work, they are not as comprehensive as the RX2 package.

I guess I'd have to stick with the RX2 since it does work very well and for a reasonable price, I just have to bounce tracks and re-align them manually before the mix.

Thanks again for your help.
Old 22nd March 2013
  #4
TNM
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Ok...i am on snow leopard on the machine my RX2 is on. This is very strange as it hasn't caused out of time issues here. I suspect i need to re check things on this laptop with mountain lion but i don't really want to use an authorization for it, i am sorry, cause i would never do restoration on this machine.

Denoiser causes MASSIVE latency by the way, not just the ones you said. Yes the declipper is a must have too.. (adobe and wavelab have this feature built in also)

If you are talking about restoring old recordings, i would still suggest looking at not doing it in logic. And if you want to add the files to a logic project, and you ave timing issues, render them in said host above and insert the files at the correct point in logic.. NO rx overhead/cpu usage, no latency issues whatsoever.

Anyway best of luck with whatever you choose. (ps there are some standalone $50 programs i need to remember the name of, not plugins, that do JUST denoise and decrackle/declick - and they have been rated as excellent by peers, i'll look them up if you are interested)
Old 22nd March 2013
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks again.

When I said old recordings, they are not so old, just vocals and instrument takes that are quite good apart from noise/clicks/clippings etc.

I think I will stick with the RX2 for the time being. ;-)
Old 22nd March 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
JohnRick's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
For what it's worth I absolutely love iZotope RX2. Offline that is. Only tool for restoration I need. I have used Waves X-bundle, but it's not nearly as convenient. I saw that Sonnox came up, but I would in that case recommend that you check out WaveArts Restoration suite, since those would be my go-to plugs in that area, after iZotope of course...
Old 23rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #7
TNM
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRick ➡️
For what it's worth I absolutely love iZotope RX2. Offline that is. Only tool for restoration I need. I have used Waves X-bundle, but it's not nearly as convenient. I saw that Sonnox came up, but I would in that case recommend that you check out WaveArts Restoration suite, since those would be my go-to plugs in that area, after iZotope of course...

I have to strongly recommend agains the wavearts from my own experiences. I read the sound on sound review, and tried it excitedly as a well priced all in one package. I tried it on about 20 different sources, from demonising to declicking etc. The denoiser even with a fingerprint, i could not get decent gain reduction of noise without a lot of artefacts no matter how hard i tried. The declicker at full pelt needed 3 passes and still was leaving clear, massive 0db clicks in the audio (i.e. smooth audio with a huge click out of nowhere). One pass with the others took care of it.

The Sonnox is far superior with a price tag too match. Now almost everyone knows i am not a fan of sonnox business practises, but i have to be honest about the product. It is excellent. There is no WAY that the wavearts is in the same league as even RX2 basic by the way. In any case the OP decided he wants to stick with RX2 but if he IS curious about the wavearts he can test for himself with absolutely zero restriction full 30 day demo. Just download the installer from site, no registration, no hoops required.
Old 23rd March 2013
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I think RX2 is exactly what I want, despite the bugs with Logic, I suppose I shouldn't really expect a restoration and noise reduction software to work within a mix anyway, as many don't. The Sonnox restore bundle does sound good but is pricey and doesn't have a declipper.

Once again, thanks everyone for their valuable advice.
Old 24th March 2013 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Herb's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM ➡️
that's weird! you are definitely using the very latest version of RX correct?

Of course they have massive latency and so do the waves ones ( i own both)

it should NOT mess with the automation if plug in delay compensation is enabled in logic. From what i have seen the RX plugins DO report their latency to Logic correctly.

Now unfortunately the honest answer is the waves are not as good. That does not mean they are bad, but with the declicker for example i can never get anywhere with the waves. The RX one does an amazing job for me. Z Noise which is NOT part of the package is better then the X-Noise, and the new simple one knob NS1 is funnily enough, very good. Z Noise has a realtime mode where it can work without taking a fingerprint, or with one. It's your choice. So it has that advantage over RX but ultimately it's noise removal has more artefacts, but it's "ok".

Did you consider sonnox? they are great! I would say from my own opinion the best of the AU plugins, but i never bought them cause of the price, so i only lust!

Finally, the best i have ever used in my experience is the powercore ones. WOW.
Are you on a mac pro by any chance? you can buy a powercore pcie card for $200 ob ebay probably and the denoiser is FREE and it is AMAZING. it has the least artefacts i have ever heard.

Would you consider demonising the files in another program then importing them into logic? Adobe Audition has absolutely superb noise reduction tools built in, and is my favourite audio editor. Another option is the $100 wavelab elements 7 which has 3 sonnox vst 3 plugins, stripped down versions but still good quality!

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Just to add balance I have had better results with the Waves Z-Noise than with the Powercore Denoiser in the past.
Old 24th March 2013
  #10
TNM
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I don't dislike z-noise (i use it more than one would think for purposes other than one might think too.. sometimes it can change the feel of something in a good way)but i'd love to hear some audio examples of stuff you have denoised with it? and if you have the original file i'll do it with the poco?

It would be great to both post the audio links also of the noise auditioning to see exactly what each removes.
Old 24th March 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Herb's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ok I don't have the stuff I have done in the past or the Powercore anymore so I've just recorded something in a noisy environment.



And this is with the Z-Noise just letting it adapt to the noise and setting the reduction to full.

Old 24th March 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's the result of RX 2:


Compare the naturalness of attacks.
Old 24th March 2013 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Cool, RX2 sounds way more natural than z-noise.

Btw, are you using the standard or the pro version of RX2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin ➡️
Here's the result of RX 2:


Compare the naturalness of attacks.
Old 24th March 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My advice is use RX standalone. I never understood why someone would need to do restoration / cleanup in their music sequencer.
Old 24th March 2013 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz03 ➡️
Btw, are you using the standard or the pro version of RX2?
I have Advanced, but it does not matter in this case: you'd get exactly the same result with a standard version. Key things here are accurately capturing the noise profile and setting the algorithm to “D”.
Old 25th March 2013 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Yep, 'D' or 'high' are the only settings that I've been using, and the results are very satisfying. The z-noise in my opinion doesn't sound too dissimilar to the denoiser that came with Soundtrack Pro, which is not that great compare to RX2.

So is the RX2 advanced version worth the extra money in your opinion?

Another thing I'm wondering about is the licensing issue, if I didn't use ilok, would I be able to transfer my RX2 to a new computer in a later time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin ➡️
I have Advanced, but it does not matter in this case: you'd get exactly the same result with a standard version. Key things here are accurately capturing the noise profile and setting the algorithm to “D”.
Because what I was trying to restore was a track made out of a few different takes and it has been arranged in Logic already. It wouldn't make sense for me to restore and denoise all the unused parts of all the takes, would have been a waste of prossessing time and hard disk space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw ➡️
My advice is use RX standalone. I never understood why someone would need to do restoration / cleanup in their music sequencer.
Old 25th March 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You can authorize RX on several computers, as long as you agree not to run it on several computers at the same time.
Old 25th March 2013 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin ➡️
You can authorize RX on several computers, as long as you agree not to run it on several computers at the same time.
Old 25th March 2013 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz03 ➡️
Because what I was trying to restore was a track made out of a few different takes and it has been arranged in Logic already. It wouldn't make sense for me to restore and denoise all the unused parts of all the takes, would have been a waste of prossessing time and hard disk space.
Bounce them without effects, run them through RX, then re-import them into Logic. Noise reduction plugins aren't something you need to keep in your session anyway. Once it's done I doubt you'll need to go back and make any changes. If you do, you can just go back to the original files.
Old 25th March 2013
  #20
TNM
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Dan, remember z-noise has an auto mode though when there is no fingerprint. This is where the powercore one excelled. I remember i had some audio with hiss and hum and NO fingerprint area at all. I put them in the powercore denoiser, and just turned it on and cranked it to FULL POWER, and then auditioned what it removed, and it was just noise. That freaked me out and why i advocate it so strongly, as it did that without a fingerprint. I never tested it against stuff using fingerprints and until my new power core (well, open box LOL) comes i can't do any tests but i WILL be doing them the moment it's here.

Now z-noise can do this too but not as well. But you need to play with z-noise and you get get it sounding pretty good! I work with z noise backwards from the start, i immediately put it into audition mode, and much around with every single knob and slider until i am at the max threshold where it is removing noise only, where even one more nudge of the sliders would make it start removing noticeable audio as well.. so i am really at that max threshold, and it can take an hour or so of fine tuning to get it there. THEN i will flip the audition button and i am usually happy enough with the results. IF i have a fingerprint i use RX2 in the highest quality. End of story.

Now what i have recently discovered with running audition CS6 version 5,02 demo is the "automatic mode not requiring a fingerprint" in that is also superb, *almost* as good as powercore, with the key difference you can't audition what's being removed in that mode. SO i now do it in multitrack mode with 2 identical files and the phase flipped on one to hear only what's being removed.. i am considering buying audition as it is so intuitive as a mastering app to me and editor but the adobe prices in australia are ridiculous for identical digital downloads via the same server vs US prices. They recently were subpoenaed by australian government, no joke, to have to explain the difference and apparently that happened last friday and the consensus is so far their "explanation" was completely and utterly inadequate, so we finally might be seeing some realistic aussie pricing soon. (Audition to buy outright is $349 US from memory and $535 in the australia store! and they block using the US store, trust me there is no way around it without a US address and US credit card).

Anyway i went off topic, but i like to chat. Sorry! LOL
Old 25th March 2013 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Noise is actually not my biggest problem, I have more problems with the occasional clicks and clippings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM ➡️
Anyway i went off topic, but i like to chat. Sorry! LOL
I don't think I'd save much time that way, I can just bounce everything + denoising and restoring minus animation and import back into logic, it's just a different way of working I guess. I'd rather not have another app opened unless I really have to, and I've never encountered a plugin that would mis-align automation in Logic. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw ➡️
Bounce them without effects, run them through RX, then re-import them into Logic. Noise reduction plugins aren't something you need to keep in your session anyway. Once it's done I doubt you'll need to go back and make any changes. If you do, you can just go back to the original files.
Old 1st April 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
 
grooveminister's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz03 ➡️
Izotope RX2 cause my Logic to crash a lot, I haven't had any crashes for 2 years until i started using Izotope plugins. RX2 causes a lot of latency real time and offline which misaligns all my bounces, worst of all, it misaligns all the automations too. RX2 is a real life saver to me, can't live without it now even though its so problematic.

Has anyone here used the Waves audio restoration and noise reduction plugins? How are they compare to the Izotope RX2?

9.1.8 and 10.8.3 here
Hmmm - that´s strange!
9.1.8 and 10.8.3 here too, but absolutely no crashes since I installed RX2 2.10 yesterday!

Haven´t tried the standalone application yet - but I´ve tried the denoiser, declipper heavily - and I´ve had no single issue so far.
The denoiser even works a "D" setting which is supposed for offline processing only but doesn´t seem to affect my CPU much on 1 or 2 guitar tracks.
Old 4th July 2013
  #23
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
For what it is worth from a newbie, I just tried RXII (base version - not the Advanced one) to compare against the Waves Z noise I have used for a long time. The RXII to me seemed much more effective in getting more noticeably more noise out on the first pass without creating too many artifacts or heavily degrading the attack. This was just using the "real time" algorithms.

I like the tonal vs. broadband controls on the "advanced" algorithm page for RXII to focus in more on the highs without creating too much artifact on the low end.
Turning down the "smoothing" controls seems to preserve the musical attacks.

I think the Waves one has a similar frequency dependent controls where you can adjust how much noise reduction is on each band, though I haven't used it as much. I might have to try that on the Waves to see if I can get more effective noise reduction without bad artifacts or attack loss.

Either way, the RXII simply seems easier and more effective to me. I can do in one pass what would take two or three passes with Waves, even with the "basic" real time algorithm on RXII that doesn't have a "broadband" vs. "tonal" control.

I got great results mainly trying it on guitar tracks that have the usual high gain amp hiss.

You can get RXII (base version) for a good bit under $300 depending on where you shop. Waves costs $500 unless you wait for one of their sales, and I don't ever recall a sales on Waves Z noise except maybe at the holiday season.

I think RXII does every bit as good a job as Waves, if not better -- in my humble opinion -- and you don't have to wait for a sale from Waves.

I am not trying to bash on Waves. I have a huge amount of plugins from them.
Some things though, they are not as good or better than other brands, relative to the money charged.
Old 4th July 2013
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I think in terms of sound quality and functionality, one can't fault the RX2, it just does exactly what it's supposed to do, very well. I was having trouble with the occasional crashes, which seemed to have gone after an OSX update; and the latency problem which misaligns all the Logic track automations even with offline bouncing. I have to allow for a few seconds more when selecting the audio region to be processed too, otherwise, RX2 would cut short the selected region by a couple of seconds, and I'd also have to realign the audio track as the start time would be altered as well. It's not really the end of the world but just a bit of a hassle.
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