I think the stupidest thing a DAW developer can do is to try and be all things to all people.

The smartest thing they could do is build a specialty tool for one operation, for example vocal overdubbing, tuning and editing that plays well with other DAWs that are more suited for mixing. We need power screwdrivers and not more Swiss Army knives.

I think you just described Melodyne Editor, and I agree 100%. It does that one thing (subjectively, to avoid any debate about it's function) better than any built in solution, and it plays very well with others.

Here's the 'default' Camo max object editor skin.
But I use mostly Birdline skins kfhkh

Greg

Hello Greg

Thanks for posting this. I'm reuploading it as an embedded image so it's easier for everyone to see:
http://i50.tinypic.com/16c7z8n.png
I agree that this looks significantly more polished than the grey version I posted earlier.

However, I would say that most of my queries about the layout still stand! The only ones which are no longer valid are (1) about the alignment of text in the header areas; and (2) about the inconsistent use of curves/straight edges on arrow buttons. :cop:

FWiW I find myself using the Birdline skins for the OE since it has better differentiation between text and background...especially for tired eyes in dark studios in the heat of a mix session.

As far as the picky things about lines, layout, orientation, buttons, etc. I don't really care at this pont since there's always room for improvement.

Greg

I think Magix is trying to make pro X a sawzall :cop:

PT10 to record and Samp 11.2.1 to mix and some masteringkfhkh

Bring on the osx version.

peachhG

I apologize for being absent, I had a little anniversary get away wit the Rock'N'Roll GirlFriend. I'm glad that Greg joined the conversation. Unfortunately I am one of those 'recording and mastering' guys, and as I don't do what you need to do, I have no useful advice other than having seen Tom Sailor consistently impress rooms full of people with what the program could do, answering all questions and seeming to never disappoint. Greg might have a better handle on capabilities that you need, GUI issues not withstanding. (I can't address that. Like the OS, I'm not so particular so long as I can do my work. So long as the buttons are clear and legible, I'm happy.)

I understand what you mean but in my experience from working with Samplitude, the GUI often isn't very clear at all.

E.g. Looking again at the screenshot, doesn't the loop length icon really depict loop start, and vice versa..? ;)

No, it shows that you can drag the beginning edge (and trailing edge.) Looks good to me.

I am just demoing this now.

Let me say, I compose electronic music, and I like good sound quality.

About the DAW:

Coming from Studio One I actually find this surprisingly comfortable so far, I've not read the manual or watched the tutorials much, finding my way round quite easily so far. It has some nice features, like moving an insert up or down the chain just by dragging it. This by the way coming from someone who reeled when he opened Cubase 6.5.

I really want object based editing, it makes life so much easier and helps creativity. Afaik its not in S1.

The Plug-ins:

Trying out the suite plug-ins right now just out of curiosity. Afaik they are developed by Sascha who's recently teamed up with u-he.

Well I am floored by Ammunition and Amtrack. Seriously floored.

I've demoed the brainworx Alpha, Mpressor and Vertigo. I own Arts Acoustic CL Series, I've demoed some waves compressors too and many others besides. Just so you know where I am coming from.

Ammunition is an opto comp, I love opto style compression as it is, but this thing is silly good, you can slam it with hardly any distortion and almost no pumping at all. I've actually not heard anything like it before. It's stunning.

Amtrack is really good at imparting warmth. I am so floored right now and that is rare for me. And I've never been impressed with included processors before.

Not all that impressed with the pro reverb though.

I recently bought Pro-L. So far I think it's a better limiter than the included smax11 limiter, but its close. I feel Pro-L preserves the kick and bass better.

Before buying Pro-L I felt I was missing an important tool, after demoing it I felt it filled that void very well, better than anything else I'd tried. I don't actually need a limiter to get a loud mix, but It's handy to have one this good around.

Now I am demoing these plug-ins on a mixed stereo song, the one in my sig actually but a version before I put Pro-L on the end, just testing out their transparency and my conclusion is you can get some serious volume with combinations of these plug-ins if you want it. The multi-band dynamics is very good as is the advanced dynamics processor. It's all very good and If I did buy the suite I'd probably be quite alright selling Pro-L, unless by tweaking I couldn't replicate that 10% difference where Pro-L just preserves the transients and kick better.

I am not easily impressed imo but this is is simply stunning.

I am surprised the analog modeling plug-ins are not mentioned often as they are for sale separately for a good price, the draw back though Ammunition is not part of the package (yet) but they say on the site it will be soon. Without Ammunition though its not the same.

Very seriously considering this as I am not happy with how basic S1 is sometimes.

Edit - Just been doing some midi editing. This thing is totally straight forward, I've watched no tutorials and read no manuals. I find this easier than Cubase and for somethings it's actually easier than S1. It has MPC grooves in the qauntize options, and I can automate panning on a VSTI just as thought it were on an audio lane. I found the undo history in a couple of clicks. Everything is really where I expect it to be so far. I can tell as soon as I get into customization of the layout and key commends I will be moving very fast on this DAW. Faster than S1 for sure.

I also just plopped an audio file onto a midi track and there were no problems there either. Playing with object editing. Gotta love this. But it seems you have to freeze the track first.

Edit - Sorry, just one more thing before I call it a night. I was looking at the mixer:

1) Long faders: YES! Now I don't have to load up Sonalksis Free-G everytime I want better control and wonder why all Daw mixers aren't made this way in the fist place

2) Volumr level markings on faders: Yes! same as point 1.

3) Was playing with the EQ, thinking "hey, right clicking seems to do cool stuff in this daw, Oh it brings up a nice littler editor for the EQ, nice"

4) Tried the same for Pan. Wow, lots of pan laws to choose from, invert the phase on just one channel, increase stereo width or make it mono, all from this one little window!

Then:
5) Clicked the little 2 channel surround button. Again, wow. Got this nice and large screen which allows me to place the pan on an x-y axis, was thinking to myself, wouldn't it be neat if I could actually control the automation from here instead of drawling little lines in the track lane. Well I can! And you can even move the position around and record it in real time (!) this is so useful and fast. This is so conducive to creativity it's great. I feel like I have found a really special tool here.

I am really thinking about the full suite, even though its expensive and I'll say one more thing, full suites have never interested me before with any DAW, I always go for the cut down versions. But the plug-ins here are really good.

Anyway, signing off.

Yes, and you're just getting started.kfhkh

Just wait until you dig deeper into the object editing. It RULES!

By the way, you shouldn't have to freeze anything unless you want to save some resources, but nevertheless you can freeze MIDI-in-place as well as freeze individual objects.

And I agree - Ammunition alone is worth the 'price of admission'.;)

G

The price seems a little steep until you realize how much you are saving from plugs you don't need!

No joke. Just those grey plug-ins that come on the cheaper version of samplitude would replace a lot of my go-to plugins.

It's the first DAW that had built in effects and processors that are easy, well featured and creative enough for me to not need anything else.

It's an appealing idea to me, not having the need for any VST's.

Anyway, it's a big step so we will see. I do like the DAW a lot though.

You are mistaken. Event FX (same thing as Object) is a feature available in Studio One 2.

- Highlight your clip.
- Hit the "i" button if it isn't open already
- Enable "Event FX"
- Drag a plugin from the browser window or hit the + sign.
- Crack open a beer and relax

The little "fx" label on the clip lets you know you have a plugin on that clip.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8159/objectfx.jpg

I am using version 1.

I know its lazy of me to ask but whats it like for recording automation? I do try to demo it but I have a lot of stuff to do besides.

First of all, Putting an effect on a clip is not the same as full object-based editing, but it's better than nothing:)

Anyways, the automation works well at track OR object OR plugin level.
Some VSTs may have issues with object automation, but otherwise it works fairly easily.

Does the program hold your hand and let you automate in just one way? No, it has provisions for automating at different levels of the program, so there's more flexibility that way.

G

Ha! My experience was similar. In the late 90s, I bought an Aardvark card. It came with an 8-track demo version of Samplitude 5.3. I spent a weekend demo-ing a project on then-current versions of Cubase (which was my initial 1st choice), Cakewalk (my initial 2nd choice), Cool Edit Pro (my initial 3rd choice), and Samplitude 2496. It was produced by S.E.K.D at the time, the full name of which was incomprehensible -- from East Berlin. I only gave it a shot after I had one of the worst all-nighters of my life fighting against Cubase! I came across an EM review raving about Samplitude, though the pricetag of $1500 was overwhelming. When the retail price dropped to half, and academic pricing half of that -- I jumped. Once I got used to the interface, I also found the all-in-one package of recording-superior editing-mastering-CD burning unmatched by any other software. Nuendo gave it a little chase at one time. New features in ProTools 10 have been in Samplitude for a decade.

It's gotten better with every release. The internal plug-ins are of phenomenal quality and low resources. Anything I can't do is available via UAD. I wouldn't want to edit on any other program. There is a learning curve of course. But it is worth it. Again, the Kraznet videos are helpful for learning new features.

Early on -- Cubase, Logic, Cakewalk, and Performer were MIDI programs. They all progressively added audio features to their core, but were upside down for many permutations. Samplitude was always audio first. Those who came from a perspective of editing notes on piano roles and later working with Acidized clips often didn't "get" Samplitude. Meanwhile, it soared with better sound (32-bit float engine with no internal clipping), still unique object editing, built-in CD burning, great mixing features, fully usable internal effects, strong stability, and great waveform displays -- seemingly a decade ahead of most other programs. I think the only reason Samplitude hasn't completely ruled for the past 15 years is an almost wholesale lack of marketing.

Protools 10 finally looks enticing. They have closed the gap a bit. Sonar is remarkable. I have the latest version and may find a reason to use it. But, Samplitude ProX is still peerless in my view.

15 year hobbiest user.

This is bizarre. I have similarly used both UAD-1 and UAD-2 cards on 3 different custom built computers over the last 10 years. UAD and Samplitude have (almost) consistently co-existed perfectly for me. I completed a full CD project 2 years ago (utilizing both Samp Pro 10 and 11) filled with UAD plugs (3 cards worth!) and Samp internal plugs without conflict. In my current usage with ProX and UAD-2 cards, I've not yet encountered an issue.

Something else must be in play, I'm afraid. By the way, I do not typically use the Hybrid engine. Perhaps you might try from among the Economy engine options. And also use recommended settings. (Tim Dolbear can be of assistance).

I do remember several years back (perhaps prior to version 5 of UAD) where many Samp users had a problem for a window of time. But compatibility was reached with UAD version 5 to my remembrance, and to an update within Samplitude. It was only a problem for me for a short period of time. Its been many years!

I wouldn't take this critique too seriously, without knowing what else might be in play causing or contributing to incompatibility, or without knowing the specific nature of the conflict.

UAD-2 works well in Samplitude Pro X for me.

However I get VSTBridge32 crashes every time I close Samp. But I think it may be a plugin to blame, namely GuitarRig 5. But that plugin does not crash in any other DAW like Reaper or SoundForge.

FWIW I tried to move away from Samplitude recently and could not handle not having it. The included plugins sound great, the EQ is one of the better sounding I have used, I am so used to and fast with the Elastic Audio editor, and the audio quantise is so fast and powerful.. but the nail in the coffin was I cannot get the same sounding mixes in other apps, maybe it is the layout the helps me get to where I want but I am really thinking Samp sounds better. I know I know, they all null.

Samplitude is by far the best full featured DAW system out there. I have 5 DAW's, been testing them all. I originally started out with Pro Tools TDM in the late 90's. It was my choice because I was clueless on wht interfaces were and always used Apple so it just made sence. PT is cool, but it isn't Samplitude. I'm big on midi and hybrid mixing and Samplitude is the closest thing to a console. It just rocks to me.
I just downloaded PT 10 and it seem like a joke compared.

I think PT got so popular because anyone with a mac and 10 grand could make it work. You don't need to know much about the pro audio world to get started with it. Also, many users using hack PC's didn't help. But once you understand more about this business, gear and boutique audio, it was a no brainer to dump apple and PT.
I am planning on buying PT again but not to use it as a main DAW, only so I can accommodate clients tracks.
I don't want this to turn into a PT bash, just giving my opinion and sharing some experience.

Regarding advertising Samplitude, I promote Samplitude because its awesome. I don't need to fill my site up with as many banners as I can get. I like to support the stuff I personally use.

Love Sequoia 12 Tim!

Wasn´t this supposed to come for Mac? Any word on that? Looks really cool and I want to try it if/when the OSX version comes

Can't agree more here. Samplitude & Sequoia are great amazing full featured DAW on the market. But not the easiest to get rolling or understand right away. I challenge anyone to tell me the opposite. Even you can take Ptools, Cubendo, Reaper and the list goes on Vs Samplitude, the others in terms of getting you up & running faster & easily or the learning curve is easier then Samp.

One thing as well that keeps me away from Samp is sometimes can get very buggy dealing with VST Fx or Instruments, the fact that the Mixer Window since years haven't been fixed, kina Auto Resize itself, you can NOT keep it how you desire too. Lack of little simple tweak that you wish Magix woudl fix them and listen to the users, but instead always go and bring new stuff in and those primary little annoying things still lagging there.

VSTBridge32 under Samp X64 crashes a lot. Need to simplify they VST set up path to be more easier.

One thing I must say is that since Magix has announced Samp X Pro, they're starting to be more on the ball and listen but still got some work to do.

On other thing I noticed is that Samp is so well featured DAW (can get complex) that now it seems a bit hard for them to clean things up & make steps more easier to be achieved. Just a feeling while playing with it a few times

As for the North American advertisement, they indeed could do better and employ small great dedicated people who will be close to the users and make some noise.

Thank God Mr Kraznet is around for them kfhkh

We are still working on this and the project is taking some time as the developers are going back and doing it right. The one thing we did not want to loose is the quality that went into the current versions of Samplitude and Sequoia.

When this is ready though it should be worth the wait.

Glad to hear the love for the program,
Bob
Samplitude Pro Support.

I also produce (Detroit) Techno Music and by far this is one of the best DAWs I have used. From both interfacing with analog gear (tape), to full ITB productions it has ruled. Hence why I now work for Magix instead of doing Network Engineering.

I have shown a few Drum and Bass/jungle friends how to use this software, and some of the power of object editing and they just could not believe they missed it for all these years. Really it is tops for power in electronic music production studio work.

kfhkh

You're absolutely right here in your screenshot example but S1 doesn't have yet a really full featured Object Editor a la Samp but not only S1, no other DAW on the market has their Object Editor Developed as Magix has done & made to be one of the Best Features in their DAW.

But lets not forget, S1 just getting started :)

And I'm myself an Full S1 user.kfhkh

Is "Hardware Insert" working good in samplitude? Like in Logic or PT?

cheers

Compared to Samplitude event FX in S1 is fairly basic which is understandable as the Samp OE has been in development for years. The Object editor allows every parameter to exist in real-time so no rendering is required. Also refinements in the latest patch have made it even more flexible.

I have recently made a 4 part series about Object Editor FX :

Samplitude Pro X: The Object Editor Part 1 - An Overview - YouTube

Regards
Kraznet

Kraznet, your videos are amazing. I've been a Sam user since V2.4 and I still watch your videos and learn new things. I would love to see a video delving into Sequoia's 4 source editing. I have not been able to wrap my head around this one just by explanation. I looked for videos but could not find one. Do you or could you?

Thanks
Jeff
gtrguy1 at the Sam forum

Yeah, no kidding. I was exposed to object-oriented slice 'n dice editing with Ensoniq/E-Mu Paris, my first real DAW. Anyone remember that system? I still have a blueface Interface MEC sitting in my rack, just for the nostalgia value.

I don't know what platform came up with it first, but Paris had the same object paradigm as Samplitude. Paris also pre-dated Cubase and the rest (AFAIK) with the idea of "stacked" take management on a single track. This was back in the days when computers weren't strong enough to do heavy lifting in audio without outboard DSP, and Ensoniq lost the battle with Protools.

Anyway, after my Paris system died from neglect and couldn't be moved to Win XP, I looked around for the closest thing in native land, and found Samplitude. It took them a while to catch up on things like take management, but I've been with the program since version 7.

In fact, just *today*, I finally upgraded to Pro X from version 9 Pro, because my old workstation finally kicked the bucket (including some old PCI Powercore and UAD-1 cards... sigh). So far, it's working great in 64-bit Windows 7.

I record acoustic musicians in real spaces, playing jazz, bluess, classical and world music. I couldn't live without the object-oriented editing and the workflow of Samplitude. I'd love to use Sequoia, but my classical projects "only" involve a few dozen edits for demo projects. If I was doing more serious classical editing with 100+ edits, then I'd find a way to buy a Sequoia license for the source-destination editing.

Seriously... if you haven't done a major classical or folk/acoustic project that requires that kind of micro-editing and object-oriented tweaking, you won't know how well this software works. I think that's why Samplitude isn't more popular: most people just don't record this way in the modern era.

What's bad about Samplitude? Well, in marketing terms it's a really stupid name in English, and they'd be crazy not to rename the series "Pro X", or just fold it into Sequoia, which reads nicely in English. The support has been flaky in the past, but it looks like it's better now, based on how smoothly I was able to upgrade just now from an earlier version. The upgrade process is still clumsy, but I've seen worse. They've gotten rid of the Codemeter dongle in favor of an Adobe-like authorization, so it's easy to install your license on both a studio workstation and a laptop used for remote recording (another reason I upgraded to the new version).