Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

Hi,

Hope this thread turns not into a Mac- vs. PC-Lovers debate. I simply try to figure out what gets me the most reliable power for the bucks.

I'm running my own project studio and need to replace the DAW. Which is a dual core PC. Somehow, I contemplate going Mac for, because I really dig Logic for writing jobs.

Beforehand, I mainly produce large Pop projects so track count is pretty heavy and everything is pretty ressource hungry. When writing with VSTis and guitar. I want to have absolute freedom and don't want to bounce some tracks from MIDI to Audio because of too less ressources.


Sequencer:
- Cubase 6.5 (Main Sequencer)
- ProTools Native


If I would go Mac I'd benefit from Logic which I personally find great to write music. However, If the Mac way is much more expensive and gives me less power for my dough, I would resign Logic.


What I need the machine to do:

Recording
- mainly recording one instrument such as guitar and piano at once
- tracking vocals

Composing/Writing
- heavy use of large VSTi/RTAS and plugins use
- around 50 tracks
- consider


Mixing
- run up to 100 tracks w/ plugins
- mixing with stems is cool, but I simply like to have creative freedom


Extras
The Machine needs to be as quiet as possible or even better completely noiseless.


What kind of PC or Mac is powerful as hell and can complete the jobs above with ease. I'm not going to pay $10'000 on a DAW (:-P configuration at apple store) but I'm sure there are some nice suggestions.

Originally Posted by The dman

Protools will run better on a mac I believe, Cubase from what they say will run better on a PC. Bang for the buck you can build a powerhouse quiet PC for around $1400 or less depending on what you buy. The good news is these new machines are very powerful. I just built a new intel 2600k machine with 16 gb of ram and I'm still pinching myself as to how quick it is.

And good luck on not starting a Mac/pc debate

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

Thanks for your answer. Are you sure that for about $1400 I can get a machine which runs all that process hungry plugin instruments on 50 tracks? Let's say you would have 50 tracks, 15 Audio with some VSTs applied and 35 MIDI with for example EWQL or Native Instruments or Slate Drums on them, does your machine handle that?

ProTools will only be added to round up the studio and for mixing purposes. What do you think about going Mac to use Logic as main sequencer over Cubase.

Does it make sense to use SSD drives and install all the soft synths on them to get a better performance?

Somehow, I'm a bit 'impaired' of the ressource limitations. I always start to think, that the machine is not going to handle that super large pop productions Maybe that's because I got accustomed to the need of bouncing Midi to Audio to save ressources.

Originally Posted by The dman

$1400 would be building your own. You can give or take a few hundred depending on the components you you pick Ssd drive, good case etc. but if your patient you can catch some good sales on parts.

I can't give you an exact number but I can run projects with 50+ plugins, audio tracks, sample hungry Vsti's running at 30% in windows task manager and still go down to very low latency when needed without pops or clicks. This will also be dependent on how good your soundcard drivers are.

Originally Posted by VastArray

Quad core Sandy Bridge i5 here. 60gb SSD for Windows 7 and Native Instruments/apps, Western Digital 7200 harddrive for sample libraries and project files. 8gb of cheap RAM.

Do you have all 50 tracks playing at one time? For me, with 20+ midi tracks/VSTi & 30+ plugins all active at the same time I use like 30% of my CPU and 6gb of RAM max. (I use Reaper primarily)

AVA Direct built this machine for me for $1300... 14 months ago. Drop the graphics card down a notch, consider falling SSD prices, and it probably would cost $1000 now. Couldn't be happier myself. But that's just my experience with what fits my needs. If you need a quiet machine with a good audio I/O, you might want to look at a boutique vender that specializes in that.

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

Hi,

.... I really dig Logic for writing jobs.

- heavy use of large VSTi/RTAS and plugins use
- around 50 tracks
- run up to 100 tracks w/ plugins

Originally Posted by [email protected]

You say that you need to keep your options open (which I call being afraid to make a decision) but nothing prevents that. You mute but you do not delete the MIDI tracks. You don't like something and need to change it? Fine, delete the rendered track and make the change on the MIDI track, then render the result. Not a big deal. Any computer can handle that load.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

If you want Logic, buy a Mac and be happy. Prepare to pay big money to get the power you say is a requirement.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I recently bought an HP workstation, the Z-210. It comes configurable, or in several stock configurations. My choice was about $1700, with a SSD for the OS, Xenon processor and 8 gigs of ECC memory. It would be less with an i7, more with more ram, and more RAM buys more samples sitting in memory. HP also offers the Z400, 600 and 800, and multiple processor support for some models.

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

True. I simply wonder if a 8 or 12core mac would do the job and I would have my freedom

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

In todays pop music productions you often change complete parts to find the most catchy thing and then you need to change drums, bass accordingly etc.....

Originally Posted by [email protected]

If you want Logic, buy a Mac and be happy. Prepare to pay big money to get the power you say is a requirement.

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

Another reason I'm looking for a very powerful machine, is because I'm not planning to add additional DSP power and plugins so the machine needs to handle it native and all itself.

Originally Posted by gussyg2007

Build yourself a Hackintosh !!! if it doesn't work out (which it will) you can always turn it into a windozy machine

Originally Posted by gussyg2007

Build yourself a Hackintosh !!! if it doesn't work out (which it will) you can always turn it into a windozy machine

Originally Posted by The dman

I can't even imagine running out of power on my new machine. I'm sure I could if I tried but in the real world sense it's barley breaking a sweat.

Originally Posted by VastArray

I don't even know what I'd do with a top of the line quad Ivy Bridge. (Search for extraterrestrials? Or maybe decode the meaning of life?)

But yeah, anyway, sounds to me like you're going to want a lot of RAM and maybe an SSD big enough for all those libraries, if you don't want to wait a couple minutes for a huge sample library filled project to load.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I understand this, but only from a 'well, er... okay...' standpoint. Because in my world, we decide these things in preproduction. There is a quantum shift in our society away from thinking ahead and planing, and towards 'let's figure it out while we're doing it'. Not only in recording, but in all aspects... how many people do you see int erh grocery store calling home to see what they needed to buy? How many times do you get in the car and -then- look for a map or GPS.... me, I make a list before I leave for the store, I map out my trips before I leave the house. (shrug...) different strokes for different folks. I just think that my way is more efficient, wastes less time, gets more done.

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

Hi,

Hope this thread turns not into a Mac- vs. PC-Lovers debate. [...]

Originally Posted by theblue1

That's a little like dumping a tanker truck load of chocolate syrup onto the freeway and saying, hope this doesn't get sticky. heh


Bottom line, my standard advice is to use what you like, what you're most comfortable on.

I'll leave money aside, because I don't keep up with pricing, but several other important concerns often raised in these discussions are security and efficiency, as well as availability of chosen DAW or other software on a given platform.

Of course, MS Windows has had much to make up for in terms of not taking security seriously for far too long. But with Vista, and continuing in Win 7, they instituted a number of architectural improvements that greatly improved Window security, to the point where MacWorld's security expert, Rich Mogull flat out said that "Windows 7 is actually more secure than OS X" but added that changes slated for OS X will institute Windows-like security improvements that will make it harder for the bad guys to pull off things like Mac Defender and MacGuard and Flashback.

Still, it's worth noting that the recent Flashback Mac malware attack resulted in the highest percentage platform penetration -- forming a botnet of over 600,000 Macs -- in computer history. (Some Windows botnets of the past were larger in sheer numbers, of course, because there are approximately 20 PCs for every Mac, worldwide.) And it's further worth noting that, though fixes for Linux and Windows for the Java security hole were in place in January, Apple took an extra two months to get their fix out -- which led to the growth of that huge botnet.


The second operational, efficiency, is something that's a little harder to weight. From testinging like DAWbench, we can see that most cross-platform DAWs do from a little to a lot better under Windows. But is that enough to make one use an OS and UI that he feels less comfortable with? I think that's up to the individual and the depth of his preferences.


And, finally, of course, if you want to use some softwares, which are single-platform, like Logic or Sonar, you have to go where they live. That's not a trivial consideration. Most folks spend their time with the application -- not the OS.

Originally Posted by Rightclick

Bang for buck isn't just about spec power. Mac wins on reliability and cohesion between software/hardware. The quality isn't just good, it's universal.

If you want to run tons of plugins you need a STABLE system. Building your own is just too risky.

Yeah, you can spend less on an equivalent PC with 'faster' parts, but you'll likely spend your studio time tweaking all the peripherals and cards on your fix-it PC. If you want the best rig off the shelf, go Mac. Then you can spend your time on music.

If you have a thirst for Logic, you don't really have a choice, anyway.


Source: had PC proj studios for 12 years. Currently on a MBP. Not looking back.