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Compressor Plug-ins Now High END?
Old 19th September 2006
  #61
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max cooper's Avatar
 

I've got stacks of plugin compressors; McDsp, all the UAD ones, the EMI, the Digi/BF ones, and a few others I can't remember right now.

They depress me. You know how two outboard compressors can sound so incredibly different? Even two of the same make and model.

The plugin compressors are just a bunch of sameness to me. Some are mushier than others, and that's about it.

The PSP VW can maintain a bit of 'thump' but it falls apart pretty bad at higher knee settings so I always have to keep the knee at zero.

Also, the stock Digi comp 3 gets a bit of use here.

I can do a mix with plugin comps, but as time goes by, I want to use these things less and less.

And I've been liking EQ plugins much less than compression ones. The only one I still use much anymore is the UAD Pultec.

I think plugins can be great for modulation/delay/some reverbs and I like a couple of virtual synths.

For practical reasons, I think there'll always be some plugins on my hard drive, but they just feel so boring to me these days.
Old 19th September 2006
  #62
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
One real disadvantage of Plugs for me is the non-existing sidechain (mastering and track compressors included). ...Just another thought: One major disadvantage in the past was the non-existing mono mode (indepent l/r control), which could be usefull for M/s operations, but well, the new Neve at UAD can do this.
FWIW we've been able to do both of these things in Pro Tools for five years or so.
Old 19th September 2006
  #63
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dreamsongs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
FWIW we've been able to do both of these things in Pro Tools for five years or so.
Bob,

I PM'd you...
Old 19th September 2006
  #64
Gear Nut
 
The Swami's Avatar
 

I just feel that quality gear is a sound investment no matter what. When is the last time someone lost money on a great peice of gear.I've got waves and all that stuff and irregardless of quality what will it be worth in 2 years ? I paid 650 for a dbx 160 vu 2 years ago and could get my money back today or maybe a little more plus 2 years of good use out of a solid peice of gear.I just don't care for the software stuff I've heard can you make it work sure? but is that really the point to salvage a sound and I find it a bad investment to boot.Peolpe say you can't tell the difference go listen to the album my buddy Jim Devito just did for donavon frankenreiter not a computer in site and it just sounds real and to me that's the difference.

Last edited by The Swami; 19th September 2006 at 11:58 PM.. Reason: added text
Old 20th September 2006
  #65
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
One real disadvantage of Plugs for me is the non-existing sidechain (mastering and track compressors included).
Huh?


What DAW are you using?
Old 20th September 2006
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-cue View Post
Huh?


What DAW are you using?
I´m on Cubase SX. I mainly use the UAD-1 Plugs.
Old 11th October 2015
  #67
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Hello,

Is the difference really obvious between a SSL hardware Xlogic compressor and a nice plugin like the UAD SSL compressor.
Not sure
Would love to hear your comments
Regards
Sergio
Old 11th October 2015
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergioelectro View Post
Hello,

Is the difference really obvious between a SSL hardware Xlogic compressor and a nice plugin like the UAD SSL compressor.
Not sure
Would love to hear your comments
Regards
Sergio
I found the free 'the Glue' compressor in ableton (basically cytomic the glue) to be at least superficially very close to my xlogic bus compressor.

made samples of the same piece of music with the same settings + did a blind test to see if I could tell the difference.

I could identify the glue 100% after homing in on the fact that it kind of gave me a headache just a touch around the edges, I think the real one sounds smoother somehow.

just a really slight thing.

on a spectagraph the density of the compressed audio it became apparent that the glue was jumping around a bit more, this was on auto release settings.
ie the real xlogic seems to maintain a more solid density of audio on auto release.

having said that though, the free ableton Glue is actually the only itb compressor I really use, its nice + clean + so easy to setup sidechain built in to ableton.
the harmonics produced seem to align with the real ssl (not sure how this might behave dynamically but looks similar on spectagraph)
Old 11th October 2015
  #69
Gear Addict
New SSL and UA hardware comps aren't really top notch (IMO of course) compared to some other hardware...The difference is more obvious if you compare your plugins to older SSLs, not the XLogic (of course whatever the units are, they would have to be in good shape)...The same with 1176s. The new UAs don't sound that miraculous to me, comparing new and old hardware or comparing new UA 1176s to Mohogs, there's a HUGE difference.

Hope this helps.
Old 11th October 2015
  #70
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KevWind's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
A joke, my friend... just a joke.
Personally I found allegory witty and funny

Back to the OP I don't do huge track counts maybe 10 to 30 But like someone else mentioned for the vocals, acoustic instruments etc. I use hardware a Tubecore 3U, and for midi drums, keys strings keys, synths etc. I tend to use the Elysia software Alpha Compressor package.
To my ears there is just something extra depth wise with the 3 U
Old 11th October 2015
  #71
Gear Addict
 
Mix2Master's Avatar
With plugins like Klanghelm MJUC, Sknote STA-Limit and Disto I think the need for hardware is becoming less and less IMO.
Old 11th October 2015
  #72
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mix2Master View Post
With plugins like Klanghelm MJUC, Sknote STA-Limit and Disto I think the need for hardware is becoming less and less IMO.
Yes.

And I think it's good for people (especially people who are new to the game) to hear that people like Andrew Scheps is 100% ITB.

Of course, it helps being Andrew Scheps and, just as importantly, working with masterfully tracked sessions.
Old 11th October 2015
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasperjensen View Post
Yes.

And I think it's good for people (especially people who are new to the game) to hear that people like Andrew Scheps is 100% ITB.

Of course, it helps being Andrew Scheps and, just as importantly, working with masterfully tracked sessions.
Agreed on the Scheps / great tracks example.

ITB compressors are almost game changing at the level they are now. Not long until dsp competes completely with analog again IMO
Old 11th October 2015
  #74
8070
Guest
Software plugins are HORRIBLE for getting anything usable, let alone reliable.
About the only thing the bloody things are ok at, is teaching people the buttons on an actual compressor. They don't sound anything like the units they're cloned after, let alone sound good for what they are.

People can't get past, that just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same and you aren't going to be able to make it sound the same, no matter how badly you wish it to be so.

The argument isn't whether your bank account justifies what you can afford, it's whether they are as good as the real things...and they aren't even ****ing close. They never will be and do you want to know why?

Because they are based on different technologies. Technologies which are a universe apart. Digital plugins would be way better off NOT attempting to copy holy grail hardware(and do their OWN thing), but that wouldn't put immediate, guaranteed money into pockets....like a NEVE plugin would.

Doink.

Get real people. See it for what it is.

Plugout.

Last edited by 8070; 11th October 2015 at 07:55 PM..
Old 11th October 2015
  #75
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Mix2Master's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by desol View Post
Software plugins are HORRIBLE for getting anything usable, let alone reliable.
About the only thing the bloody things are ok at, is teaching people the buttons on an actual compressor. They don't sound anything like the units they're cloned after, let alone sound good for what they are.

People can't get past, that just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same and you aren't going to be able to make it sound the same, no matter how badly you wish it to be so.

The argument isn't whether your bank account justifies what you can afford, it's whether they are as good as the real things...and they aren't even ****ing close. They never will be and do you want to know why?

Because they are based on different technologies. Technologies which are a universe apart. Digital plugins would be way better off NOT attempting to copy holy grail hardware(and do their OWN thing), but that wouldn't put immediate, guaranteed money into pockets....like a NEVE plugin would.

Doink.

Get real people. See it for what it is.

Plugout.
Wow, that was slightly on the aggressive side. Of course, entitled to your opinion.
Old 11th October 2015
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mix2Master View Post
Wow, that was slightly on the aggressive side. Of course, entitled to your opinion.
I may have put it slightly differently, but in respect of the argument that they don't sound like the things they clone, having done multiple a/b tests, I agree. (And that's why this thread just got moved out of the high end... Because almost 10 years after the thread was started, they still don't sound the same).

Are they horrible, no (well maybe some of them) are they unusable, no (but ditto above), do they sound the same as the hardware, no.
Old 11th October 2015
  #77
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Mix2Master's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I may have put it slightly differently, but in respect of the argument that they don't sound like the things they clone, having done multiple a/b tests, I agree. (And that's why this thread just got moved out of the high end... Because almost 10 years after the thread was started, they still don't sound the same).
Fair enough. I don't think they'll ever sounds exactly the same but give it a few years and i think it'll almost be indistinguishable between the two. Going as far as saying plugins are useless is just plain silly. scheps is putting out great mixes with plugins. It all comes down to the person behind the tools not the tools.
Old 11th October 2015
  #78
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by desol View Post
Software plugins are HORRIBLE for getting anything usable, let alone reliable.
About the only thing the bloody things are ok at, is teaching people the buttons on an actual compressor. They don't sound anything like the units they're cloned after, let alone sound good for what they are.

People can't get past, that just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same and you aren't going to be able to make it sound the same, no matter how badly you wish it to be so.

The argument isn't whether your bank account justifies what you can afford, it's whether they are as good as the real things...and they aren't even ****ing close. They never will be and do you want to know why?

Because they are based on different technologies. Technologies which are a universe apart. Digital plugins would be way better off NOT attempting to copy holy grail hardware(and do their OWN thing), but that wouldn't put immediate, guaranteed money into pockets....like a NEVE plugin would.

Doink.

Get real people. See it for what it is.

Plugout.
I think we would all prefer 3 assistants and work entirely OTB with calibrated hardware units.

But I do think that it's a stretch to say that all plugins are horrible. While they may not be 100% true to what they strive to emulate, that doesn't mean that they are not worth using.

But hey. We all have our opinions and differences. Which is the way it should be.
Old 11th October 2015
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by desol View Post
Software plugins are HORRIBLE for getting anything usable, let alone reliable.
About the only thing the bloody things are ok at, is teaching people the buttons on an actual compressor. They don't sound anything like the units they're cloned after, let alone sound good for what they are.

People can't get past, that just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same and you aren't going to be able to make it sound the same, no matter how badly you wish it to be so.

The argument isn't whether your bank account justifies what you can afford, it's whether they are as good as the real things...and they aren't even ****ing close. They never will be and do you want to know why?

Because they are based on different technologies. Technologies which are a universe apart. Digital plugins would be way better off NOT attempting to copy holy grail hardware(and do their OWN thing), but that wouldn't put immediate, guaranteed money into pockets....like a NEVE plugin would.

Doink.

Get real people. See it for what it is.

Plugout.
I've always been hardware is better than software, but recently they are getting very close. I was dissapointed in the recent DBX160a emulations as they did not come close really to the hardware....

But check this video out on the Distressor/Fatso emulation, I have a UBK Fatso and am pretty impressed by what I hear on this plugin.

Old 11th October 2015
  #80
Gear Addict
 
Mix2Master's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
I've always been hardware is better than software, but recently they are getting very close. I was dissapointed in the recent DBX160a emulations as they did not come close really to the hardware....

But check this video out on the Distressor/Fatso emulation, I have a UBK Fatso and am pretty impressed by what I hear on this plugin.

Exactly my point. However some people will not give stuff the credit it's due because its not a physical box with knobs.

Disto is a beast for a plugin for sure.
Old 11th October 2015
  #81
Surely nobody is suggesting that you can do any critical a/b-ing on a YouTube video...? Get the hardware and the plug in into the same room. You can't hear anything on some nasty streamed audio attached to a video. I've done it with many of them. I'd love them to sound the same. It would save me time, maintenance and money. But they don't sound the same. Really.
Old 11th October 2015
  #82
Gear Addict
 
Mix2Master's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Surely nobody is suggesting that you can do any critical a/b-ing on a YouTube video...? Get the hardware and the plug in into the same room. You can't hear anything on some nasty streamed audio attached to a video.
For critical a/b-ing you are 100% correct otherwise its not a correct and sound test in the first place.
Old 14th October 2015
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Surely nobody is suggesting that you can do any critical a/b-ing on a YouTube video...? Get the hardware and the plug in into the same room. You can't hear anything on some nasty streamed audio attached to a video. I've done it with many of them. I'd love them to sound the same. It would save me time, maintenance and money. But they don't sound the same. Really.
Sure I get what you are saying I really do, but I can still hear even through YouTubes encoding that this plugin is a step up from previous virtual compressors. I will buy it tonight and see how it fairs with the hardware UBK Fatso for saturation maybe this week.
Old 14th October 2015
  #84
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I really dont care if emus sound exactly as original...to me is only important that my end product sounds good, produced with sw or hw...I dont care. But I see a lot of people waste energy on this types of discussion...
Old 14th October 2015
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulderFBI View Post
I really dont care if emus sound exactly as original...to me is only important that my end product sounds good, produced with sw or hw...I dont care. But I see a lot of people waste energy on this types of discussion...
+1

And plugins do sound good. Well, not all of them course but the same can be said about hardware or any piece of gear.

Bottom line is that plugins can sound awesomely good and if your productions don't sound good it's definitely not because of plugins.
Old 15th October 2015
  #86
Lives for gear
 

I use Uaudio SSL bus compressor.
Really good

Last edited by sergioelectro; 15th October 2015 at 09:16 AM..
Old 15th October 2015
  #87
What do you guys think of Native Instrument compressors and how they stack up against waves and others?
Old 15th October 2015
  #88
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clonewar's Avatar
 

Maybe this thread will die again and we'll resurrect it in 2025 when we'll be having the same EXACT discussion.

"Ohhhh the UAD LA-2A MK5 finally nails it!!"
Old 15th October 2015
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinh222 View Post
What do you guys think of Native Instrument compressors and how they stack up against waves and others?
Love the solid series on drum buss. They are far better than waves IMO.
Old 16th October 2015
  #90
8070
Guest
The truth is that people simply can't afford the real equipment, but they'll take any avenue to prove that a $100 dollar plugin sounds exactly the same as a $4000 input channel... and companies will present the same answer, because they need to make money.

The results are the important thing and their effect on the listener...true enough.

My advice is, don't fool yourself. Be honest with yourself. ie: I have it sounding ok...with these plugins...even though I know they aren't the same as the real equipment. Get real, a $100 plugin is not going to sound like an actual ($4000 per channel) Pye compressor...or Helios eq, or whatever. About the only plugouts I've found that are barely passable are eq's and delays....even then I find the more I add, the worse things get...and fwiw, when pro's say they use plugout's...what they actually mean, but don't say is "the only plugins I use are for things that DON'T have a major affect on the sound, or things that DON'T affect the sound that much, but present a feature that I can't accomplish with my rack of $50,000 vintage equipment. Otherwise, I'm using 90 percent hardware and 10 percent software(automation, de-essing, etc...utility plugins"

I'm pretty firmly of the (subjective) opinion, that it is simply impossible for software to mimic hardware, because software cannot act randomly....like normal electronic components do. They CAN'T sound the same...no matter how much make up you put on it and how much magic you type into it. Hardware contains all kinds of randomness that software simply doesn't. It's like those captcha box's. You input a random type given answer, that a computer can't do, to PROVE that you are a human.

Last edited by 8070; 16th October 2015 at 01:28 AM..
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