The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
UAD Lexicon 224 versus ValhallaRoom?
Old 21st February 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
hemmick reef's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
UAD Lexicon 224 versus ValhallaRoom?

I'm presently using ValhallaRoom and Reverence for reverb duties, but I listened to some YouTube demo's of the UAD Lexicon 224, and it sounded very good.

Could anyone give me an idea of how the two compare please?

Thanks.
Old 21st February 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
I'm presently using ValhallaRoom and Reverence for reverb duties, but I listened to some YouTube demo's of the UAD Lexicon 224, and it sounded very good.

Could anyone give me an idea of how the two compare please?

Thanks.
Have them bought and to be fair... they are to different beast of a plugin. ValhallaRoom to more the clean and very experimental sounds and the UAD for the gritty glue and darker stuff with ambiance.
I use them bought and thats it. No more need for Rvb plugs.
Old 21st February 2012 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
hemmick reef's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMauce View Post
Have them bought and to be fair... they are to different beast of a plugin. ValhallaRoom to more the clean and very experimental sounds and the UAD for the gritty glue and darker stuff with ambiance.
I use them bought and thats it. No more need for Rvb plugs.
Thanks for the reply. The 224 just sounds deeper and bigger to my ears and blends with the source sound better... from what I can hear on YouTube that is!
Is this the case?
Old 21st February 2012
  #4
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
I'm presently using ValhallaRoom and Reverence for reverb duties, but I listened to some YouTube demo's of the UAD Lexicon 224, and it sounded very good.

Could anyone give me an idea of how the two compare please?

Thanks.
For the most part, the ValhallaRoom algorithms have nothing in common with the 224 algorithms.

The Narcissus algorithm in ValhallaRoom is the closest to the 224 Concert Hall, but it is only sorta close, as opposed to any sort of Lexicon recreation. The Early section in VRoom gets far denser than the allpass diffusion used in the 224.

My PCM70 has the ability to turn down the Diffusion, and turn up the Definition (which turns down the Diffusion in the main tank), which can turn the Concert Hall algorithm into a very sparse multitap delay. It is a pretty cool sound. The goal of ValhallaRoom was to have denser reverbs than the old Lexicon stuff, but I am a big fan of the sound of the 224-era reverbs.
Old 21st February 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
bugscoe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have both and use Valhalla more. Great sound and not a CPU hog either.
Old 21st February 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Valhalla
Old 22nd February 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Marando's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I have bought a used UAD-2 solo just to be able to test the UAD Lexicon 224 plugin. I compared it to all the other UAD reverb plugins and I easily prefered the 224 above any other plugin, I liked it even more than the UAD EMT 140 reverb plugin. You could say I was totally in love with the 224.

However, I was not at all in love with the price for the plugin, so I decided to test a few other native reverbs, maybe I could get something that also sounded very good, but cost a lot less (and I could sell my UAD-2 solo, because I would only keep it if I decided to get the Lexicon 224 plugin).

It's because of Valhalla Room that I decided to not buy the Lexicon 224 plugin! I could make presets with vroom that sounded warm, wide, lush, smooth, and everything in between. It sounds great for small room sounds, but also for gigantic big concert halls.

I sold my UAD-2 and got myself Valhalla Room for only $50,- Best spend $50,- to date!

Old 22nd February 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
hemmick reef's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wow... I like Valhalla Room but I didn't expect answers like these.

I thought that the Lexicon 224 would of surpassed a $50 reverb.

Cool...
Old 22nd February 2012 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
Wow... I like Valhalla Room but I didn't expect answers like these.

I thought that the Lexicon 224 would of surpassed a $50 reverb.

Cool...
It's all in the programming and preference. I prefer Sean's Algorithms to the Lexicon ones. In fact I prefer them to any Algorithmic reverb I've ever tried hard or soft. But that's just my opinion you may like Lexicons more.
Old 22nd February 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
rhythmtech's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
I thought that the Lexicon 224 would of surpassed a $50 reverb.
it does... at being a lexicon 224. valhalla wins in other areas

i use both but i find myself using the 224 just a little more. maybe just my tastes, maybe it suits the source i work with a little better? but when i need V-room it also shines. both amazing reverbs.
Old 22nd February 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
hemmick reef's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I presumed the 224 would blend better when used wet as this is what shows a reverb's quality - the less the reverb is heard and the more the source is saturated the better... unless you want an obvious reverb effect?
Old 22nd February 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
cebec's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
I presumed the 224 would blend better when used wet as this is what shows a reverb's quality - the less the reverb is heard and the more the source is saturated the better... unless you want an obvious reverb effect?
Try the demo!
ValhallaRoom: $50 – ValhallaDSP
Old 22nd February 2012 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
hemmick reef's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebec View Post

I've got it - see original post. It's the UAD Lexicon 224 that I'm interested in a comparison.
Old 22nd February 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
Wow... I like Valhalla Room but I didn't expect answers like these.

I thought that the Lexicon 224 would of surpassed a $50 reverb.

Cool...
UA have to account for the overhead of a medium size business (payroll, rent and utilities on a commercial space, plus licensing fee overhead too I imagine.) Just because they have to charge more for their plugs to survive doesn't necessarily mean they sound or function better than those from a smaller developer.
Old 22nd February 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
timtoonz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I just think they're two different beasts. Valhalla excels at 'rooms' and ambiences, with a tinge of that AMS style digital 'hyper reality' thing sometimes. And it's an absolute no-brainer STEAL at $50. But it doesn't sound like a classic Lexicon.

The UAD Lex224 sounds like a Lexicon. Grainy in ways your brain likes for some reason, and artificial in all the right ways. It's not something I use for emulating a 'real' environment, which is where I often turn to Valhalla. But for conjuring that reverb 'special effect sauce' so beloved on classic albums of the 70's and 80's, the 224 really - and literally - shines. And the price, while not a bargain, is pretty comparable to most of the competition from Softube, Waves, and much much cheaper than Lexicon's own software (which I also use).

The true Gearslut will want'em both. But if you're looking for more realistic spaces and ambiences, Valhalla will do just fine almost all the time.

Old 22nd February 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
EastWest Lurker's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The 224 has a specific sound, different from a PCM 60, 70 or 80 for example. UA nailed it IMHO.
Old 23rd February 2012 | Show parent
  #17
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Lurker View Post
The 224 has a specific sound, different from a PCM 60, 70 or 80 for example. UA nailed it IMHO.
The PCM60/70 used very different algorithms than the 224. It seems like David Griesinger made a breakthrough while developing the Rich Chamber and Rich Plate for the 224XL, and used this type of algorithm for most of the future Lexicons. The Concert Hall in the PCM70 is pretty close to the 224 algorithm, just with some changes related to adding a Size control, and with sonic changes associated with different sampling rate & convertors.

I'm not sure what is going on in the PCM80, as I haven't messed with one or seen the code. IIRC, there is a Concert Hall algorithm in there, that sounds similar to the PCM70 Concert Hall, but without hearing the unit it is hard to tell. I also recall hearing that Barry Blesser (designer of the EMT250) worked on the PCM80, and that the Concert Hall algorithm in the PCM bundle was based on Blesser's diagram, so it might be that the PCM80 Concert Hall is Blesser's take on the original 224 algorithm. This is all conjecture - there are a few people on this list (Michael Carnes, Casey) that would know more of the history first hand.
Old 7th March 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
it might be that the PCM80 Concert Hall is Blesser's take on the original 224 algorithm. This is all conjecture - there are a few people on this list (Michael Carnes, Casey) that would know more of the history first hand.
Good call, Sean. Barry extracted the concert hall algorithm--somehow--from the older boxes. There was very little code available. It had been lost when the old Lex sold off the only computer the tools would run on (there's a moment of genius for you). I've never talked with Barry about just how he came up with it, but I know Dave wasn't much interested in working with him on it. It possibly misses in a few spots, but it's awfully close. I still had Barry's beautiful wireframe of the algorithm in my old Lexicon office, but left it behind when I walked out the door.
Old 23rd October 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
kaboom75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I only like gui s that look like machines so never baught any Valhalla plugins and the price is soo low it makes me think it aint that good. Im in the market for a smaller reverb so started demoing some plugs today to compare to the eventide Blackhole native which i already have. Main goal is to find one that bests suits a Supersaw from U-HE Zebra HZ.

Downloaded the Lexicon reverb bundle and compared that to Valhalla Room demo and Eventide Blackhole.

Not sure who the winner is between Blackhole and Valhalla Room I think valhalla room is a bit better for Supersaws but both are a million times better than any of the Lexicon plugs which I wasnt expecting seeing as one type of reverb from them costs Β£198 :0
Old 23rd October 2012 | Show parent
  #20
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom75 View Post
I only like gui s that look like machines so never baught any Valhalla plugins and the price is soo low it makes me think it aint that good. Im in the market for a smaller reverb so started demoing some plugs today to compare to the eventide Blackhole native which i already have. Main goal is to find one that bests suits a Supersaw from U-HE Zebra HZ.

Downloaded the Lexicon reverb bundle and compared that to Valhalla Room demo and Eventide Blackhole.

Not sure who the winner is between Blackhole and Valhalla Room I think valhalla room is a bit better for Supersaws but both are a million times better than any of the Lexicon plugs which I wasnt expecting seeing as one type of reverb from them costs Β£198 :0
Try ValhallaShimmer versus Blackhole. They have more similarities in their architecture, compared to ValhallaRoom.
Old 24th October 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Head
 
Bjoern Bojahr's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmick reef View Post
Wow... I like Valhalla Room but I didn't expect answers like these.

I thought that the Lexicon 224 would of surpassed a $50 reverb.

Cool...
I did some presets with the narcissus algos in valhalla room to recreate some classic sounds from old hardware devices. If anyone is interested, they are a good starting point...
Attached Thumbnails
UAD Lexicon 224 versus ValhallaRoom?-valhalla_presets_bb.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: zip ValhallaRoomPresetsBB.zip (10.0 KB, 824 views)
Old 24th October 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks !
Old 24th October 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I haven't tried to UAD Lexicon... but as far as Valhalla goes... I've personally never witnessed a reverb better than this.... hardware or software, professionally mixed or not. Even in industry songs... I like this reverb better.
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Finnish's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjoern Bojahr View Post
I did some presets with the narcissus algos in valhalla room to recreate some classic sounds from old hardware devices. If anyone is interested, they are a good starting point...
Awesomeness!
Old 21st December 2014
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
which presets/settings would you recommend for such great reverbs?

i got the whole valhalla suite but got recommended the Lexicon 224?
but i dunno if it is needed for this:

at 2 minutes, clean atmospheric sounds! WOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXuza7mZRj4

and another example!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsMJg1LnbDU
Old 10th March 2015
  #26
Lives for gear
How are people feeling about the UAD Lex 224 plugin a few years on?

I don't suppose anyone fancies processing a drum track for me using the room and small room algorithm?
Old 10th March 2015 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
How are people feeling about the UAD Lex 224 plugin a few years on?

I don't suppose anyone fancies processing a drum track for me using the room and small room algorithm?
Still good but they also got the Neve AMS verb witch for my taste its more unique !
Old 10th March 2015
  #28
Lives for gear
 
11 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I demo'd UAD 224... and I had ValhallaRoom already.

Owning Valhalla, I didn't feel the need to grab the UAD 224. Valhalla is that good at room reverb IMO. I did however grab UAD 140 EMT. That plate reverb is ridiculously good to my ears, and I didn't grab any of the other Valhalla verbs so I'm not sure how they compare to 140 EMT.
Old 10th March 2015 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMauce View Post
Have them bought and to be fair... they are to different beast of a plugin. ValhallaRoom to more the clean and very experimental sounds and the UAD for the gritty glue and darker stuff with ambiance.
I use them bought and thats it. No more need for Rvb plugs.

pretty much the same here...
Old 10th March 2015
  #30
Lives for gear
 
henge's Avatar
ValhallaVintageVerb would be way closer to the Uad 224 than Vroom...no?
VVV creates awesome spaces.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 2201 views: 392751
Avatar for AleLab
AleLab 28th November 2019
replies: 1974 views: 294429
Avatar for robinschell
robinschell 15th November 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump