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Your thoughts on Kramer MPX Saturation Plugins
Old 16th September 2011
  #1
Your thoughts on Kramer MPX

I love working on tape but its slow and i don't have a multitrack machine in my new studio so I tried the Waves Eddie Kramer mpx plugin. I like it on snare & the gtr bus and feel it's the closest tape sim plugin I've used so far.

I'd like to know other peoples thoughts about this tape sim. What say ye?
Old 16th September 2011
  #2
Gear Addict
a must have... great on everything
Old 16th September 2011
  #3
It's one of the better tape sims I've heard, though still doesn't do all that tape does (none do [yet?]). IME it adds some nice harmonics but watch out for harshness in the high mids on some sources. Enjoy!

J~
Old 16th September 2011
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
cowrange's Avatar
 

Tried it. Meh.
Old 17th September 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
I am loving it. Compared to what else is available, this is great. The best in my opinion. It adds that "tape like" dimension. Is it tape? No, but like I said compared to it's competition, this plugin rules. The price is great to.
Old 17th September 2011
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Waves Mpx Master Tape!

I can see how this 44 page thread is easy to miss.
Old 17th September 2011
  #7
Lives for gear
 

why use a tape sim? it wont sound like tape but some weird interpretation of it. real saturation is technically not possible itb (although people said it will be in a year...for the past 10 years...) and will basically just screw with your signal. these products are made for amateurs. pros do have a studer or dont even care :-) if you like tape...use it. otherwise dont. all good ( i personally dont use tape and dont miss it a bit...actually id hate having to work with it). all you will get from plugs like that is a distorted interpretation of analog saturation that has nothing to do with the real thing. stay away! invest in better mics...thats worth a lot more!
Old 17th September 2011
  #8
Gear Head
 
Zach Adam's Avatar
Hey I'm a pro working on "real" records... Love the mpx. Can go from subtle to obviously distorted.
Old 17th September 2011
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Love mpx. Use it often on vocals & drum buss, sometimes master buss too. Upping the flux knob and utilizing the built in slap fx is a excellent way to make some backing/lead vocals sound retro. Can't see how anyone can not find a place for this tool in their mixes. Yes it doesn't sound good on everything and I don't always use it on the master bus, because it can obviously sometimes change the signal in a way I don't want it to. As is the rule with all tools, all things are useful u just need to learn when they add and improve something or when they take away from a source. Sometimes like this tape sim sound more than the cranesong hedd's tape sim. A worthy buy IMO.
Old 17th September 2011
  #10
Demoed it, it's nice. Though I'd like to have the Anamod ATR-1. I'm still using my HEDD, no need for another tape plugin.
Old 17th September 2011
  #11
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

@salomanander:

Real pros don't have rules, just use what works for the circumstance.

- c
Old 17th September 2011
  #12
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthecorner View Post
Sometimes like this tape sim sound more than the cranesong hedd's tape sim. A worthy buy IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
Demoed it, it's nice. Though I'd like to have the Anamod ATR-1. I'm still using my HEDD, no need for another tape plugin.
HEDD's tape sim hardly sounds like tape to me. Nor does Fatso. Neither does the tape saturation part at all.

Anamod does it though heh

Never tried the MPX. Though I would hope it does way better than the HEDD
Old 17th September 2011
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
why use a tape sim? it wont sound like tape but some weird interpretation of it. real saturation is technically not possible itb (although people said it will be in a year...for the past 10 years...) and will basically just screw with your signal. these products are made for amateurs. pros do have a studer or dont even care :-) if you like tape...use it. otherwise dont. all good ( i personally dont use tape and dont miss it a bit...actually id hate having to work with it). all you will get from plugs like that is a distorted interpretation of analog saturation that has nothing to do with the real thing. stay away! invest in better mics...thats worth a lot more!
Why? Same reason you use any processor maybe? Because it sounds better with it on than with it off?

Who cares if it's exactly like tape as long as it does something you like.

FWIW, I own 3 HW analog machines (Ampex. Studer, Otari). I still find MPX/KMT useful sometimes because it sounds different from them and therefore it gives me another color to paint with. I also use UAD Studer, UAD ATR 102, and DUY Tape when it suits me. Doesn't make me or anybody an "amateur".

As always, use whatever you like, but why limit your options just because they haven't perfectly modeled tape yet? These plugs are 80 to 90% there, and that's pretty nice to have with the convenience of a plug-in

J~
Old 17th September 2011
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
HEDD's tape sim hardly sounds like tape to me. Nor does Fatso. Neither does the tape saturation part at all.

Anamod does it though heh

Never tried the MPX. Though I would hope it does way better than the HEDD
I, for one, would be very interested to hear your opinion if you were to demo the MPX (now called KMT) and compare to the ATS-1 with 351 card. 'Been searching for some Anamod 351 vs KMT info but it is surprisingly scarce.

Best,

J~
Old 17th September 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
I, for one, would be very interested to hear your opinion if you were to demo the MPX (now called KMT) and compare to the ATS-1 with 351 card. 'Been searching for some Anamod 351 vs KMT info but it is surprisingly scarce.

Best,

J~
Greg Wells has both and commented in the main MPX thread. Basically he was impressed by the MPX though he did say his Anamod was a little better FWIR ('little' is so subjective though).

Maybe you can PM him and have him comment further in this thread?
Old 18th September 2011
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
HEDD's tape sim hardly sounds like tape to me. Nor does Fatso. Neither does the tape saturation part at all.

Anamod does it though heh

Never tried the MPX. Though I would hope it does way better than the HEDD
Can't really tell if the HEDD is near to tape, because I don't know tape for real. But I like the HEDD sound. Gives some nice feeling in my ITB synths
Old 18th September 2011
  #17
Lives for gear
It either sounds like it's doing nothing, or it sounds like this kind of horrible distorted gauze over your mix
Old 18th September 2011
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
why use a tape sim? it wont sound like tape but some weird interpretation of it. real saturation is technically not possible itb (although people said it will be in a year...for the past 10 years...) and will basically just screw with your signal. these products are made for amateurs. pros do have a studer or dont even care :-) if you like tape...use it. otherwise dont. all good ( i personally dont use tape and dont miss it a bit...actually id hate having to work with it). all you will get from plugs like that is a distorted interpretation of analog saturation that has nothing to do with the real thing. stay away! invest in better mics...thats worth a lot more!
BS. Plenty of pros use tape sims - I could point you to large scale albums that make heavy use of them.

"Nothing to do with the real thing"? well, I guess..in the same way that plugins have nothing to do with any sort of hardware.

Tape is a luxury that most can't afford to do properly, that slows modern sessions down and that can potentially sound worse if the engineer isn't very experienced with it. However, the sonics can be pleasing - and to my ears at least, some tape sims are very much more than what you describe. Sounds like you just have no need for them, which is fine, but it also suggests you're not really in a position to comment on their effectiveness.

FWIW I'm liking MPX so far - seems to do something nice on the mixbuss. I'm probably quite conservative with it though.
Old 18th September 2011
  #19
Gear Addict
 
jono_3's Avatar
I have a Portico 5042 Tape Sim, a Fatso, and the MPX, they all sound completely different and I them all for when I think they will improve my projects. I've never used real tape, but I think the MPX is a useful tool.
Old 18th September 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
IME it adds some nice harmonics but watch out for harshness in the high mids on some sources.
I agree with that. It's not always flattering.

You need to be wary of the signal level hitting MPX. The input stage is VERY sensitive to how hard you hit it. I've been routinely attenuating signals on the way in and I'm really liking it on 2bus. Not on every source, but it's often great.

It also makes a wonderful and simple tape delay...
Old 18th September 2011
  #21
I demoed and wasn't moved to buy it... but I already have the Anamod ATS-1 w/ the 351 card. IMO, the Anamod was noticeably better for my tastes.
Old 18th September 2011
  #22
Gear Addict
 
DoctorG's Avatar
 

Has it's place for me along with UAD Studer and Fatso Hardware and less than $100! Haven't tried the UAD Ampex....
Old 18th September 2011
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco View Post
I agree with that. It's not always flattering.

You need to be wary of the signal level hitting MPX. The input stage is VERY sensitive to how hard you hit it. I've been routinely attenuating signals on the way in and I'm really liking it on 2bus. Not on every source, but it's often great.

It also makes a wonderful and simple tape delay...
I ran some tones through the plug-in at 15 IPS and found a very wide bump in the frequency response of up to 1.5dB (depending on the settings) which peaks at 4 to 6kHz. Next time I might try corrective EQ with this bad boy.

'Agree on the input level thing. I routinely start with the input control all the way down and just use the flux control to dial in the amount of coloration.

J~
Old 18th September 2011
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
I demoed and wasn't moved to buy it... but I already have the Anamod ATS-1 w/ the 351 card. IMO, the Anamod was noticeably better for my tastes.
I'd be interested to know more about the differences between them and what you like better about the ATS-1. Thanks!

J~
Old 18th September 2011
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorG View Post
Haven't tried the UAD Ampex....
IMO if you like tape tone then you owe it to yourself to demo the UAD ATR 102 and spend some time learning it. To me it's a must have if for no other reason than the tape delays, but it's also a 90% accurate representation of the hardware (mine at least), which is very nice to have with the convenience of a plug-in. Great on mixes and on tracks.

J~
Old 18th September 2011
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
evilberg's Avatar
 

I love the MPX Master Tape. It´s great on everything you throw it on; guitars, bass, drums, vocals + it really shines on the mix bus when cranking the flux control knob up to 280-300
Old 19th September 2011
  #27
Gear Addict
I demoed it and used it only in the master bus, I didn't use it in every channel.
Old 19th September 2011
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
glava's Avatar
 

Waves sucks

I have both an 351 2T 1/4" and a 354 2T 1/4"
and this thing doesn´t sound anything similar.
It´s sounds like all of Waves simulation plugs
2D and dead.
Just degrading the signal without adding anything good
and as always the put more brain into the GUI than the sound

Wonder how much they pay these guys like Kramer and CLA
for dragging there names in this dirt?
Old 19th September 2011
  #29
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dxavier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by light View Post
a must have... great on everything
As much as I respect this opinion and the excitement that new hardware or software brings to us all, I have to stop short of calling a Tape Emulator a "Must Have". Even if it nailed the sound of tape to a "T", tape is just not fundamental to mixing. It is great if you have the option of using tape to record to or mix from, but if you do not have that option, or if simply, it is just too time consuming and expensive, you can still make a great sounding record!!! Hence me stating, it is not "fundamental".

Tape is a recording tool and once recording switched to other mediums, thousands of quality records were made without tape involved in the signal chain. Now, we have plugin companies advertising the idea of tape as some kind of sonic/dynamic effect, that you absolutely must have, but for me, unless you are attempting to recreate a vintage sound, you absolutely do not "need" it and it is not a must have, no matter what Waves or UAD wish you to believe.

I am actually fearful of how easily we are all getting sucked into these tape emulations. Were your mixes not any good before you heard of Waves or UAD's emulations? I would ask serious questions about your mixing abilities, if you could not pull off a good mix before using one of these.....
Old 19th September 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
 

I can tell you a good reason for buying the mini-EK bundle that is on special right now if you are a Waves user.... because they give you a voucher for the purchase price. So you can buy another plug/plugs and either amortize the cost over the total number of plugs, or consider the EK mini-bundle to be free.
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