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Your thoughts on Kramer MPX Saturation Plugins
Old 19th September 2011
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I can tell you a good reason for buying the mini-EK bundle that is on special right now if you are a Waves user.... because they give you a voucher for the purchase price. So you can buy another plug/plugs and either amortize the cost over the total number of plugs, or consider the EK mini-bundle to be free.
From what I can tell, the voucher you get can only be used for up to 50% of bundles or 25% off individual plugins. The voucher can't be used as 100% of a payment on anything. Essentially what they're offering is: Buy something and get a discount off of your next purchase. Pretty sneaky marketing if you ask me...

Or did I get this all wrong?
Old 19th September 2011
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
As much as I respect this opinion and the excitement that new hardware or software brings to us all, I have to stop short of calling a Tape Emulator a "Must Have". Even if it nailed the sound of tape to a "T", tape is just not fundamental to mixing. It is great if you have the option of using tape to record to or mix from, but if you do not have that option, or if simply, it is just too time consuming and expensive, you can still make a great sounding record!!! Hence me stating, it is not "fundamental".

Tape is a recording tool and once recording switched to other mediums, thousands of quality records were made without tape involved in the signal chain. Now, we have plugin companies advertising the idea of tape as some kind of sonic/dynamic effect, that you absolutely must have, but for me, unless you are attempting to recreate a vintage sound, you absolutely do not "need" it and it is not a must have, no matter what Waves or UAD wish you to believe.

I am actually fearful of how easily we are all getting sucked into these tape emulations. Were your mixes not any good before you heard of Waves or UAD's emulations? I would ask serious questions about your mixing abilities, if you could not pull off a good mix before using one of these.....
If English is your first language you are probably aware that "A must have" is a common figure of speech, not to be taken so literally. Agree that tape sims are not "fundamental". Did anybody here use that word? Can you point to where a company states their tape sims are something that "you absolutely must have"? I just don't see it happening, no worse than any other type of gear is advertised anyway...

And I don't recall anybody anywhere saying that you can't make a great record without tape or a sim. I think we are all aware that color processors are for flavor, season to taste.

Why do you have to go there; questioning people's abilities just because they like the sound of tape in their creative process? Did you just stop by to take a piss or do you have something constructive to say?
Old 19th September 2011
  #33
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dxavier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
If English is your first language you are probably aware that "A must have" is a common figure of speech, not to be taken so literally. Agree that tape sims are not "fundamental". Did anybody here use that word? Can you point to where a company states their tape sims are something that "you absolutely must have"? I just don't see it happening, no worse than any other type of gear is advertised anyway...

And I don't recall anybody anywhere saying that you can't make a great record without tape or a sim. I think we are all aware that color processors are for flavor, season to taste.

Why do you have to go there; questioning people's abilities just because they like the sound of tape in their creative process? Did you just stop by to take a piss or do you have something constructive to say?
"Must have" is a figure of speech? It's a marketing term. Do your friends walk around saying "must have" all the time??

I have to laugh at a guy in the U.S questioning an English guy if English is his first language!!!

I do have a very strong opinion about tape emulations and the marketing that is behind them. We are all being sucked in and what does it add? To be constructive is to love this nonsense? Maybe you should take a closer look at the marketing before you comment.

I do not think it is negative or not being constructive to clearly state that your mixes should sound fine without it. Why should anyone be afraid to say that? Yes it is a creative tool, but what did we do before they came onto the market? I see far too many newbies coming along, thinking that without a buss compressor or a vitalizaer or now a tape emulation, that they won't be able to create a good mix and it winds me up completely, because it is far from true and who is benefiting from it, other than the companies selling it? If you are not achieving a good sound, then I believe you should be considering other elements, such as your monitoring, conversion or accoustics, but I saddened that too many people believe this is the answer and now we have someone like you, who actually appears to work in a studio, having a problem with me stating this? With comments like yours, which will end up being taken as endorsement, I wonder how any studio is going to convince anyone of it's merits over tosh like this.
Old 19th September 2011
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco View Post
From what I can tell, the voucher you get can only be used for up to 50% of bundles or 25% off individual plugins. The voucher can't be used as 100% of a payment on anything. Essentially what they're offering is: Buy something and get a discount off of your next purchase. Pretty sneaky marketing if you ask me...

Or did I get this all wrong?
I went to the site between my message and reading yours to check out the details and it appears that you are correct. Kinda not what I expected from the email that they sent to me, but maybe i didn't read it right, or maybe there was fine print. Still, a $200 voucher doesn't hurt, BUT it is just not as clear cut and neat as i described it. Either way, I'm giving it a try. $200 isn't bad, and the yeas and nays appear to be evenly split. I really don't care about the tape emulator much, it is the other two pieces that intrigue me. Plus I am supposed to get my hands on a clone of a Pye in hardware for testing. Be nice to see what the differences are.
Old 19th September 2011
  #35
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
"Must have" is a figure of speech? It's a marketing term. Do your friends walk around saying "must have" all the time??

I have to laugh at a guy in the U.S questioning an English guy if English is his first language!!!

.
"A must have" is a figure of speech. It's only a marketing term if Waves is using it in their ad copy.

And Trakworx did the right thing by NOT assuming you're first language is English just because you list London as the city your in. Just as you should not assume my current location is where I was born or from (it was actually London).
Old 19th September 2011
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
"Must have" is a figure of speech? It's a marketing term. Do your friends walk around saying "must have" all the time??
Not all the time, but it's still just a figure of speech. Are you implying that the poster who said it is a shill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
I have to laugh at a guy in the U.S questioning an English guy if English is his first language!!!
That IS funny! You fellers gotta learn ta talk American! heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
I do have a very strong opinion about tape emulations and the marketing that is behind them. We are all being sucked in and what does it add? To be constructive is to love this nonsense? Maybe you should take a closer look at the marketing before you comment.
I've seen it. You make it sound like we are all being brainwashed and have no free will. You are aware that we can all demo for free and hear for ourselves, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
I do not think it is negative or not being constructive to clearly state that your mixes should sound fine without it. Why should anyone be afraid to say that?
"I would ask serious questions about your mixing abilities" is what you said, in case you forgot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
Yes it is a creative tool, but what did we do before they came onto the market?
By your logic nobody should ever invent any new gear because we were already making good mixes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
I see far too many newbies coming along, thinking that without a buss compressor or a vitalizaer or now a tape emulation, that they won't be able to create a good mix and it winds me up completely, because it is far from true and who is benefiting from it, other than the companies selling it?
I agree with you that newbies get taken advantage of. It has always been so in any field. Why single out tape sims when every other product does the same thing? Seems like it's your personal issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
If you are not achieving a good sound, then I believe you should be considering other elements, such as your monitoring, conversion or accoustics, but I saddened that too many people believe this is the answer and now we have someone like you, who actually appears to work in a studio, having a problem with me stating this? With comments like yours, which will end up being taken as endorsement, I wonder how any studio is going to convince anyone of it's merits over tosh like this.
Show me where I or anybody ever said that tape sims are more important than acoustics or anything. You are reading in things that simply aren't there. I suppose what I said is an endorsement, but that doesn't carry all that you assign to it. Can't I say it's a nice plug-in without being guilty of ruining music?

Ah, sometimes I do enjoy these little debates. Sorry to derail!

J~
Old 19th September 2011
  #37
Gear Nut
 
philip888's Avatar
 

I am having a lot of fun with the Kramer MPX Master Tape thing.
Mind blowing on drums.
For me it has added an "Oomph" and "Lift" I did not have before.
Old 19th September 2011
  #38
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euphoria89's Avatar
 

Im about to demo this for a few days. I've got a few really nice plugins from various companies, but nothing in the form of a tape simulation. Seems like the general consensus is that it is pretty decent sounding, but with a few people saying it can be a little harsh or overdriven too easily, so i will bear this in mind when using it over the 2-buss. For the price, it looks to be a winner, but i will post my findings after i've used it.
Old 19th September 2011
  #39
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by glava View Post
I have both an 351 2T 1/4" and a 354 2T 1/4"
and this thing doesn´t sound anything similar.
It´s sounds like all of Waves simulation plugs
2D and dead.
Just degrading the signal without adding anything good
and as always the put more brain into the GUI than the sound

Wonder how much they pay these guys like Kramer and CLA
for dragging there names in this dirt?
To be fair, I don't find it 2d like the other waves simulations. Its the only one in fact that has dimension to it. Don't know if it sounds like tape, but I find it useful.
Old 19th September 2011
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
To be fair, I don't find it 2d like the other waves simulations. Its the only one in fact that has dimension to it. Don't know if it sounds like tape, but I find it useful.

I agree - I found some of the Waves vintage comps (api, ssl, etc) to have the 2-d disease, but MPX sounds much more lively to these ears....
Old 19th September 2011
  #41
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
I agree - I found some of the Waves vintage comps (api, ssl, etc) to have a the 2-d disease, but MPX sounds much more lively to these ears....
Yes exactly. I don't know how those compressors rob dimension so fast, almost as if they take the music, turn it into a static snapshot and then compress that image. Weird. Anyhoo, MPX sounds very dynamic to me.
Old 19th September 2011
  #42
Gear Addict
 
Kubilay's Avatar
 

I think it's absolutely marvelous. Used it on a bunch of stuff, both submixes, as well as individual tracks. Don't much care if it's "like tape", it does nice things to the signal, which is what I'm after when I'm mixing.

Old 19th September 2011
  #43
Has anyone else noticed that with some settings it can actually increase the dynamic range of a mix?

Isn't THAT a nice change of pace!
Old 20th September 2011
  #44
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Has anyone else noticed that with some settings it can actually increase the dynamic range of a mix?

Isn't THAT a nice change of pace!
That's precisely what was cool about tape! I don't know where all of this talk about "saturation" and "compression" comes from. Tape will compress a few instruments like a piano but in most cases mixing to tape often increases the crest factor compared to digital recordings.
Old 20th September 2011
  #45
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Has anyone else noticed that with some settings it can actually increase the dynamic range of a mix?

Isn't THAT a nice change of pace!
I knew it! I could swear it was doing that. I really like starting with settings close to the mastering preset "big and open". I increase the flux to about 185, over bias and take down the wow and flutter to 15 or so. Push the low pass up to 15, increase the record level 'till the needles are just pinned in the red on the peaks but bouncing nicely and it just sounds marvelous.
Old 20th September 2011
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
Push the low pass up to 15, increase the record level 'till the needles are just pinned in the red on the peaks but bouncing nicely and it just sounds marvelous.
You're kidding...right?
Old 20th September 2011
  #47
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evilberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
I knew it! I could swear it was doing that. I really like starting with settings close to the mastering preset "big and open". I increase the flux to about 185, over bias and take down the wow and flutter to 15 or so. Push the low pass up to 15, increase the record level 'till the needles are just pinned in the red on the peaks but bouncing nicely and it just sounds marvelous.

I´ve been playing around with similar settings with amazing results as well. Love the MPX!
Old 20th September 2011
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
That's precisely what was cool about tape! I don't know where all of this talk about "saturation" and "compression" comes from. Tape will compress a few instruments like a piano but in most cases mixing to tape often increases the crest factor compared to digital recordings.
Yeah, so many have intentionally abused tape for the compression/saturation effects for so long that the other possible benefits of analog recording rarely get mentioned. Big kudos for successfully replicating this effect in an emulation!

J~
Old 20th September 2011
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
I knew it! I could swear it was doing that. I really like starting with settings close to the mastering preset "big and open". I increase the flux to about 185, over bias and take down the wow and flutter to 15 or so. Push the low pass up to 15, increase the record level 'till the needles are just pinned in the red on the peaks but bouncing nicely and it just sounds marvelous.
For some reason I didn't get the presets with my plug-in. Anyone care to save me some time and point me to them?

BTW, AFAIK the low pass only affects the delay part of the plug-in...

J~
Old 20th September 2011
  #50
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The Beatsmith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
You're kidding...right?
hehheh

Try The McGurk Effect! - Horizon: Is Seeing Believing? - BBC Two - YouTube
Old 20th September 2011
  #51
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
You're kidding...right?
No, all the way up to 15kHz, as high as it can go. The preset I mentioned starts it at 12kHz which leaves my mixes a little too dark.
Old 20th September 2011
  #52
Old 20th September 2011
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
No, all the way up to 15kHz, as high as it can go. The preset I mentioned starts it at 12kHz which leaves my mixes a little too dark.
You peed before, and I gave you a chance to mop it up tutt

But now you pooped too
Old 20th September 2011
  #54
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The Beatsmith's Avatar
 

Perhaps an extremely short delay which just makes everything double up and sound 'thicker'? :-)
Old 21st September 2011
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
You peed before, and I gave you a chance to mop it up tutt

But now you pooped too
Am I missing something here?
Old 21st September 2011
  #56
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
You peed before, and I gave you a chance to mop it up tutt

But now you pooped too
I'm wondering the same thing???
Old 21st September 2011
  #57
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
You peed before, and I gave you a chance to mop it up tutt

But now you pooped too
Ha! Just messin' with ya. It was a typo in the first post. I meant the tape speed at 7.5 rolled off too much of the highs as opposed to 15ips.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Old 21st September 2011
  #58
Old 21st September 2011
  #59
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The Beatsmith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
heh
Old 21st September 2011
  #60
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Lenzo's Avatar
Just my opinion, and that's worth squat..but I spent a few days putting the Kramer and the new UAD Ampex on my 2 buss running some finished mixes through them both. I also played around with the Kramer on subs..mostly drums and bass. The UAD Ampex introduces so much latency, I don't see it being viable on subs..at least not in PT9. I liked the Kramer on the subs..but I thought the Ampex plug really brought the mixes to a more polished sound. It seemed to be smoother and tighter on the low end..it smoothed the top end out more and gave the mixes a dimensional aspect that the Kramer did not. Realizing the price difference there should be a difference in quality..I think the Kramer is useful...if you have a UAD-2 card and haven't demoed the Ampex, give it a whirl. I gotta have it, I'm sorry to say.
L.
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