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UAD Vs Waves Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 30th August 2016
  #31
zzzzzzzzz sorry,it's just UAD down here is like a bad mortgage,and if on a Win Laptop,it is still an absurdly tiresome rip off.

I'm sure it's great,but so would a Decent Left Handed Les Paul.

Or better yet a L/H EDS-1275
Old 30th August 2016
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o View Post
I know about the Grid and even considered it for a while. But then again, I see no reason for my kind of applications as it costs more than a decent PC which offers the same power or more. Plus, a PC can be upgraded during the years. The total cost will be less I think. Honestly, I think Avid will find it more and more difficult to keep selling DSP boards. Computers are getting extremely powerful, operating systems get faster and more stable, and plug-in vendors are dropping support for the avid DSP platform all the time. As said, my Pro Tools HDX board is being used as sound card, nothing more. Tried some plug-ins but when comparing this with UAD or even the standard Logic Pro plug-ins, Pro Tools does not sound better for such an expensive system. My number one choice, soundwise is UAD. Also, Logic Pro had a 32 bit floating point mixer for years when Avid was still suffering with a fixed point mixer. I always felt mixing with Logic yielded better results but I must say, this was nothing more than a feeling. I never did any real AB testing.

I like waves for certain things and I do use them. But if it concerns a plug-in that also exists on UAD platform, like the API, SSL or Neve stuff, I notice that UAD always sounds fatter, warmer, more true. Waves tend to give me that typical in-the-box digital sound which I always used to hate. I do not have that with UAD. And I always used to think UAD was just a second rated brand. I was truly biased and prejudiced about them without even knowing them. I already purchased everything from Waves. Then I went listening to Youtube Demo's and I was like: crap! So I got an Octo board and never looked back. If I had to start all over again, I'd go for UAD.
I agree in part to the DSP systems slowly becoming a redundant thing.

But then the cost of a SoundGrid system inline with a UAD system. So then what I find difficult in understanding is if they are roughly worth the same value... Why is would purchasing a PC be preferable over a SoundGrid because of the expense, but not UAD??

I find this a confusing claim to be making.

I'd understand if it's a preference, it certainly sounds like you prefer the UAD. But the argument about the cost factor remains the same.

On a personal level, I seriously cannot tell how you think the Waves technology sounds more digital. I like many people think both are comparable. I don't think anything is more "digital" sounding than the other.

But then, it could be just the way we use the software.
Old 30th August 2016
  #33
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rksguit View Post
zzzzzzzzz sorry,it's just UAD down here is like a bad mortgage,and if on a Win Laptop,it is still an absurdly tiresome rip off.

I'm sure it's great,but so would a Decent Left Handed Les Paul.

Or better yet a L/H EDS-1275
A cool man once said: opinions are like ass holes: everybody has one :-D
And I mean this in a humoristic way, not an offensive one at all :-)

I respect your opinion man, really.

Personally, I do not agree. True, UAD is expensive. Or not? Look at the price of e.g. 1 TubeTech CL1B. In 2004 I purchased one, new, for 1850 euro! Today, the exact same machine costs 3750 euro! Why? Has there been a redesign? No. Have parts become more expensive? No. The company just asks more money. Inside, there's no big deal going on, even though it is a fantastic piece of gear and despite the price, I will get one again, but on the used marked. I'd rather shoot my dick off than follow that rip-off. :-) All I want to say, gear is worth what people are willing to pay for it. UAD has one of the best DSP developers on the planet. And I feel I hear the difference. The plug-ins they sell are worth it to me. I'm still cheaper off than when I have to buy it all in hardware. So I guess it's relative.

You are right that they rip off a little because they could easily make the plugs to run on a native platform. But they don't do so because of the copying I guess.
Old 30th August 2016
  #34
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon.billington View Post
I agree in part to the DSP systems slowly becoming a redundant thing.

But then the cost of a SoundGrid system inline with a UAD system. So then what I find difficult in understanding is if they are roughly worth the same value... Why is would purchasing a PC be preferable over a SoundGrid because of the expense, but not UAD??

I find this a confusing claim to be making.

I'd understand if it's a preference, it certainly sounds like you prefer the UAD. But the argument about the cost factor remains the same.

On a personal level, I seriously cannot tell how you think the Waves technology sounds more digital. I like many people think both are comparable. I don't think anything is more "digital" sounding than the other.

But then, it could be just the way we use the software.
Hi, I do not understand your confusion :-) My reasoning is that if you make music, you need a PC to run your DAW. So why would you want to buy DigiGrid too? :-) Unless you're using a laptop to run your DAW but laptops are not as powerful as the most powerful desktops. So if your premmisse is indeed you use a desktop PC, than my reasoning is obvious I hope :-)

But besides that, I indeed do prefer UAD sound over Waves sound...
Old 30th August 2016
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o View Post
Hi, I do not understand your confusion :-) My reasoning is that if you make music, you need a PC to run your DAW. So why would you want to buy DigiGrid too? :-) Unless you're using a laptop to run your DAW but laptops are not as powerful as the most powerful desktops. So if your premmisse is indeed you use a desktop PC, than my reasoning is obvious I hope :-)

But besides that, I indeed do prefer UAD sound over Waves sound...
The confusion is, that hypothetically its not the best idea to buy a Digigrid, because its a bit expensive.... but its okay to spend the same amount of money on UAD. Its the same price, but its not expensive?!?

OI don't know either there's a miscommunication here, or there's some kind of double standard?!?!
Old 30th August 2016
  #36
Gear Maniac
Why do I buy Digigrid while I can buy Mac Pro 12 core and call it a day? If UAD was providing without the DSP card, still I wouldn't buy them those cards. The reason I'm buying them is that there is no alternative way to run their plugins. Seriously sound gorgeous though. Along with my Harrison Mixbus 32c
Old 30th August 2016
  #37
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon.billington View Post
The confusion is, that hypothetically its not the best idea to buy a Digigrid, because its a bit expensive.... but its okay to spend the same amount of money on UAD. Its the same price, but its not expensive?!?

OI don't know either there's a miscommunication here, or there's some kind of double standard?!?!
Oh now I get it.
Sorry man, I totally misread you.

According to here: DiGiGrid IOS | Sweetwater.com
DigiGrid costs 2294 USD. I have no idea what plug ins you get included, if any at all.

A nice review here: Waves DiGiGrid IOS Review - A HD Solution For Owners Of All DAWs — Pro Tools Expert

I think you are right about the prices. UAD now also have products with DSP and Mic Pre's, probably inspired by what Waves did with this grid. I guess the price will be the same.

But my former point was more like, why buy a DigiGrid if you have a powerful PC which can run the same plug-ins native? With UAD, there is not even the option to run them native. You need their DSP hardware or you can forget running them. In that way, Waves at least give you the choice.

So you're right that when it comes to choosing, the grid or UAD, it's the same discussion about price and your personal preference will be decisive then.

For me, I just want the solution that offers me the best sound. And for me, that is UAD. Had it been Waves, I obviously would not have purchased the UAD PCI and I would also not have gotten the grid because:
- plugs run native
- A good PC can rival the DSP power of the grid.
- I already have Apogee ADDA which I feel are better than Waves'
- Already have mic pre which I feel is better than Waves'

Sorry for the misunderstandings before :-)
Old 30th August 2016
  #38
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallworld View Post
Why do I buy Digigrid while I can buy Mac Pro 12 core and call it a day? If UAD was providing without the DSP card, still I wouldn't buy them those cards. The reason I'm buying them is that there is no alternative way to run their plugins. Seriously sound gorgeous though. Along with my Harrison Mixbus 32c
Same here. I only got their DSP because their plugs don't run native. They claim they do it as such because their plugs eat a lot of resources because they're supposedly doing more calculations to get better results which would easily drown a PC. But honestly, the DSPs on their boards are 10 years old since they were developed. The current Intel CPU's blow them away. But because of their proper hardware, copying is useless. You need at least their boards and then again, you need an account and their software to get your stuff licensed. My main guess is it's more to keep their eco-system as closed as possible.

I got a used Octo board from a dude who urgently needed some money. Got it pretty cheap. Next, I waited until the bundles I wanted were in promotion. Saved myself a lot of bucks this way. Did the same with Waves. I upgraded my old Platinum to the Mercury + Studio Classics for 2250 Euro. Later I got Abbey Road and another one which was not included for half the price. So now I own everything, legitimate. I use it but as said, I prefer the UAD versions of anything they both got. And I had waves first. UAD is just better. For me.
Old 30th August 2016
  #39
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So then people by their DSP because they are not presented with options. Makes sense.

But still see it as a SLIGHTLY hypocritical view, even if it's somewhat validated.

Just an opinion though.
Old 30th August 2016
  #40
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midmost's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o View Post
I like waves for certain things and I do use them. But if it concerns a plug-in that also exists on UAD platform, like the API, SSL or Neve stuff, I notice that UAD always sounds fatter, warmer, more true. Waves tend to give me that typical in-the-box digital sound which I always used to hate. I do not have that with UAD..
As you can read above thats just your very personal opinion and impression and is not a statement of objectivity .. in otherwords: bullcrap
Old 31st August 2016
  #41
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by midmost View Post
As you can read above thats just your very personal opinion and impression and is not a statement of objectivity .. in otherwords: bullcrap
Whatever.

On another note, lawrence_o, I'll reinforce with my own use-case as the DSP does, in fact, add to my personal value prop, in addition to the awesome plugins. Incidentally, since I just bought, I still have the 3 plugins to choose and the new Manley VOXBOX is number one on my list. I'll pull the trigger next week, after my current round of demos expires. I have until October to choose all three.

I bought the iMac 5K when it was first introduced. At the time, it was next-to-impossible to purchase an i7 model, and the few that were around were either overseas or were priced completely unrealistically.

However, upgrading my current i5 to the i7 would require disassembling the unit to the bare core -- and that's risky.

Enter UAD and the DSP processing power, and my Logic & Ableton sessions are much more resilient, snappy, and I can focus more Mac CPU on heavy-handed soft synths such as Serum, Dune 2 if a lot of Unison, and even Alchemy itself. This CPU-liberation extends to Kontakt Libraries with heavy scripting too.

So for less than the total cost of the Intel CPU upgrade (particularly if you factor in time & aggravation,) I get an Apollo Twin Interface with all the UAD plugin options.

Not a bad deal in my book!
Old 31st August 2016
  #42
I would certainly have bought the DSP even if the plugins were available natively. I love the stability it gives me and I'm happy to offload the CPU even though I got a powerful one.
The only downside to it is that I can't easily access the plugins on the go. The satellite is quite bulky to carry around and it needs to be connected to a wall outlet which makes things even more difficult.
I understand why they wouldn't want to port their plugin to run natively, but a slimmer bus powered satellite would be awesome.
Old 31st August 2016
  #43
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
I would certainly have bought the DSP even if the plugins were available natively. I love the stability it gives me and I'm happy to offload the CPU even though I got a powerful one.
The only downside to it is that I can't easily access the plugins on the go. The satellite is quite bulky to carry around and it needs to be connected to a wall outlet which makes things even more difficult.
I understand why they wouldn't want to port their plugin to run natively, but a slimmer bus powered satellite would be awesome.
UAD has proven to be a very stable platform for me here on the Mac and my music has not sounded better. Worth every penny to me, and no more expensive than Waves, without the nagging upgrade stuff.
Old 31st August 2016
  #44
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Swurveman's Avatar
I use both.

If I had to do it over again I would not have bought the UAD, for the simple reason that the plugs don't justify the $900.00 investment in the PCIe and I don't get better performance from it. In fact, they crap out in a session before the Waves plugs do.
Old 31st August 2016
  #45
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swurveman View Post
I use both.

If I had to do it over again I would not have bought the UAD, for the simple reason that the plugs don't justify the $900.00 investment in the PCIe and I don't get better performance from it. In fact, they crap out in a session before the Waves plugs do.
I'm on TB, left PCIe many eons ago.

Apollo whole new world for me, feels just like my old TDM system did when tracking.




TH
Old 31st August 2016
  #46
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projektk's Avatar
 

I use both and honestly the waves gold collection with UAD collection that came with my Apollo with my Steven slate subscription is more than enough awesomeness.
Old 31st August 2016
  #47
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by midmost View Post
As you can read above thats just your very personal opinion and impression and is not a statement of objectivity .. in otherwords: bullcrap
Indeed this is my personal opinion and impression and I accept this is not the same for other people. No need to call my opinion bull crap ****. No need to be rude here okay.

Some folks like a Neve more, other prefer an API, some rather have an SSL or a Harisson, that's all fine by me bro. I just told what I like more. And I'm perfectly fine with other people's opinions, even if they divert from my own. Enjoy your music making.
Old 31st August 2016
  #48
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Whatever.

On another note, lawrence_o, I'll reinforce with my own use-case as the DSP does, in fact, add to my personal value prop, in addition to the awesome plugins. Incidentally, since I just bought, I still have the 3 plugins to choose and the new Manley VOXBOX is number one on my list. I'll pull the trigger next week, after my current round of demos expires. I have until October to choose all three.

I bought the iMac 5K when it was first introduced. At the time, it was next-to-impossible to purchase an i7 model, and the few that were around were either overseas or were priced completely unrealistically.

However, upgrading my current i5 to the i7 would require disassembling the unit to the bare core -- and that's risky.

Enter UAD and the DSP processing power, and my Logic & Ableton sessions are much more resilient, snappy, and I can focus more Mac CPU on heavy-handed soft synths such as Serum, Dune 2 if a lot of Unison, and even Alchemy itself. This CPU-liberation extends to Kontakt Libraries with heavy scripting too.

So for less than the total cost of the Intel CPU upgrade (particularly if you factor in time & aggravation,) I get an Apollo Twin Interface with all the UAD plugin options.

Not a bad deal in my book!
Thanks for your insights. I agree. Probably would have done the same in your situation. COol you mention Serum and Dune2. I have them too and Dune2 is amazing, especially when giving it max amount of oscilators and voices and when putting the audio quality generation at max. :-D Sounds awesome. Serum still needs more experimenting on my part.

On the other hand, for music making I always purchased a Mac Pro for the PCI slots. I now have an older 5.1 model upgraded at max. But I get it, this won't last forever and the next machine will not be a Mac Pro anymore since they no longer have pci slots. I am not goind to get an additional expansion chasis. It'll be a PC instead.
Old 1st September 2016
  #49
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence_o View Post
Thanks for your insights. I agree. Probably would have done the same in your situation. COol you mention Serum and Dune2. I have them too and Dune2 is amazing, especially when giving it max amount of oscilators and voices and when putting the audio quality generation at max. :-D Sounds awesome. Serum still needs more experimenting on my part.

On the other hand, for music making I always purchased a Mac Pro for the PCI slots. I now have an older 5.1 model upgraded at max. But I get it, this won't last forever and the next machine will not be a Mac Pro anymore since they no longer have pci slots. I am not goind to get an additional expansion chasis. It'll be a PC instead.
Serum is an interesting one, and obviously much more digitally driven than Dune 2. ADSR has some good stuff out there regarding getting a better handle on Serum's uses & functionality. Its internal effects chain is surprisingly good and well thought out such that Steve even released Serum FX, which is almost like having your own LFO Tool free of charge plus all the other parameters, including Dimension. The synth can be good fun, but it does take time for each and every preset you create.

Regarding the channel strips, I'm also checking out the API and I really, really like it. It is interesting as it does share some of the sonic qualities of SSL, but its warmer to my ears like the Neve.

I'm actually contemplating purchasing this one in lieu of the VOXBOX as it's lighter on CPU and in some ways is more flexible, others less; do you happen to have any thoughts / rec's on the API?

Incidentally, rumor has it there just might be a new release of the Mac Pro, if the platform itself is not in question for your use-case, including if you dot want to switch from PCIe outright to Thunderbolt 2 (or TB 3 if UAD makes the jump too, as PCIe is built into both.) Obviously it is rumor, but from Computerworld at least.

Last edited by MusiKLover; 1st September 2016 at 05:14 AM.. Reason: Add MacPro info
Old 1st September 2016
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
Andy Gone's Avatar
True thing, UA fans will say UA, Waves fans will say Waves To me in the first place Waves can be run native. Don't get me wrong, DSP is great if you can afford it (will it be UA or DigiGrid is a question of choice). But if you can't, or if you want to be super mobile with your laptop, you need native plugins.
Old 6th December 2016
  #51
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Rokus666's Avatar
I have compared Puigtec EQP-1A by Waves, and UAD Pultec EQP-1A
When I boost 8k All the way up, UAD is the winner by far. I don't know why but it just is. It just sounds right, smooth, creamy. Waves sounded snappy and harsh. I might give it another try and hear if I am not mistaken.

I got used to using EMT140 and EMT250 on UAD, and after it becomes hard to go back or to try anything else.
Old 7th December 2016
  #52
I use both. UAD sounds great, but I need to purchase more DSP to run more plugins. I kinda screwed up by buying before the free satellite promos. I've been using Waves for so over 10 years. If I had to only choose one with all plugins, it'd be hard to decide. When I was on HD, Waves TDM was awesome. A native system with UAD has me falling in love with recording again though.
Old 7th December 2016
  #53
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noah440's Avatar
 

They both make fantastic plugins, some with a certain sound or vibe that people like for different reasons. UAD is stuck in the dark ages with their vintage plugs sometimes in some ways, though, as they generally refuse to improve on the originals to be more modern and flexible (i.e. increased gain ranges, wet/dry knobs, being able to see the values - which is essential for mixes where you might need to adjust things by a specific decibel amount for a variety of reasons, etc., etc.). Some people like that, some don't. UAD plugs are always top notch sounding, though. Waves are hit or miss for me.

But there are so many amazing plugin makers out there -- Waves and UAD are just two little cogs in a very, very giant wheel.

Last edited by noah440; 7th December 2016 at 04:31 AM..
Old 7th December 2016
  #54
Agreed. Many of us probably have more plugins than we know what to do with or probably don't even use. If I had all Waves and UAD plugins only, I'd be happy though.
Old 10th December 2016
  #55
CBJ
Here for the gear
Greetings

After reading all the posts in this thread it has become obvious that most posters are very passionate about their views regarding these two products & rightfully so. Both are well designed & provide a lot of audio solutions to aid audio producers in mixing & adding effects to their recordings.

My initial research lead me to this thread because I was looking for a solution that would allow me to process effects such as reverb & echo externally & outside the realm of my current PC equipped DAW.

I use a fairly new 64bit PC equipped with 16gb of RAM along with a PCIe 32 ch audio device that is set @ 48kz & 64 sample latency. I don't know if my ears are getting better at detecting problem areas in my finished mixes but I'm starting to hear a lot of smear in the reverbs. Recently I have started to use more than one reverb plug in to try to compensate for what I am hearing but it makes very little difference whether I use one or four reverbs.

On one of the last projects I used an old Lexicon MX400 (hardware verb) & I achieved a much better mix with better detail when the reverb was being added outside the computer. Based on this & a couple of other projects I mixed it became apparent to me that I should start to utilized this type of approach in all my future projects. The difference was very notiecable where the reverb was no longer masked by the rest of the mix. I'm starting to believe that all the processing that my PC has to perform is too much number crunching & that is what has caused what I call "AUDIO SMEARING" that destroys the reverb. The reverb always sounds excellent without any other sounds being played but gets totally washed out when the rest of the audio is being played.

I thought I would ask you guys if you have noticed any similar issues with the your reverb plug ins & if any of you noticed any difference using the UAD approach? Since UAD Octo uses 8 processors and I thought by running an additional PC loaded with a couple of UAD Oct PCIe cards & accessing this dedicated effects PC via the ethernet I could achieve a better mix.

Can anyone provide some advice regarding the issues I am facing?
Cheers, & Merry Xmas to everyone.
Old 31st December 2016
  #56
Gear Head
 
Tempertemper's Avatar
 

Some points in this post is pure both waves and uad runs dsp, uad with their sharc processors and waves with their "i" series processors. The reason to buy the Digigrid solution is to offset your editing computer and load ridiculously amounts of waves and a couple third party plugs. The same reason exists if you want to purchase uads solution. The amount of subjective bs here is beyond belief. Matter of fact, the amount of subjective disagreements all over this website is. Yes state your opinions and enjoy conversation, but sometimes certain forum attendees are so ignorant. Do y'all make music or collect gear and argue about specs?
Old 1st January 2017
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ View Post
On one of the last projects I used an old Lexicon MX400 (hardware verb) & I achieved a much better mix with better detail when the reverb was being added outside the computer. Based on this & a couple of other projects I mixed it became apparent to me that I should start to utilized this type of approach in all my future projects. The difference was very notiecable where the reverb was no longer masked by the rest of the mix. I'm starting to believe that all the processing that my PC has to perform is too much number crunching & that is what has caused what I call "AUDIO SMEARING" that destroys the reverb. The reverb always sounds excellent without any other sounds being played but gets totally washed out when the rest of the audio is being played.
I can assure you that external processing makes no difference whatsoever in this regard. A computer CPU can either run a certain amount of code or not. The number of processes makes no difference to the audio quality.
It's more likely that your Lex MX400 simply works better in your mixes than whatever you were using otherwise.
That said, instead of adding more reverbs you might want to try adding a filter/EQ to your reverb to shave it off a bit to give your mix better clarity.
Old 1st January 2017
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
I can assure you that external processing makes no difference whatsoever in this regard. A computer CPU can either run a certain amount of code or not. The number of processes makes no difference to the audio quality...
This is true. If a computer can't make the computations it stalls or glitches or throws up an error. It's incredibly obvious.

If it's working fine, then the computations are 100% fine.

Mind you external processing has to go through an D/A conversion then A/D again as it goes into the computer. Perhaps this is the sound you like
Old 2nd January 2017
  #59
Gear Maniac
 

The UAD convertors are the main thing for me. Plugins are preferences but when we talk about recording - the unison feature of UAD and the convertors make me think that if i had to choose it will be Universal Audio
Old 15th January 2017
  #60
Here for the gear
 

I have been using Waves for years and i have been using UAD plugins about a year now.

I had a chance to demo all UAD plugins for a while couple of years ago and i did some tests comparing Waves and UAD. I´m not a fanboy of any manufactor, i am just looking for the best sound possible. And i have to say UAD are way more better than the waves. I´m not saying waves is not good but UAD is just so much better.

Now with the MK2 1176 and LA-2 UAD plugins, you can´t even compare them to waves. They are just so much better, fatter, thicker and feel more like analogue gear. The thing about UAD plugins is that you just insert the plugin in one of your tracks and it affects the sound even if you don´t do anything with the plugin. And i love that. It feels like you really are feeding signal through some equipment, it does not feel like "just another plugin".

I compared for example the waves SSL comp and UAD SSL comp. Now i have never been a big fan of the waves SSL comp because it narrows the stereo image and makes the sound somehow smaller even with just very little compressing or no compressing at all. Now when i inserted the UAD version the bottom end just came alive and the sound became fatter even without any compressing going on. The sound was just right away in another level.

Another example, I tested some eq and compression for my drum bus. I put a UAD DBX 160 compressor and Harrison EQ plus Pulteq EQ and with these 3 plugins the drums already sounded punchy and full with fat low end, something i was not able to do with Waves plugins.

That being said, i still use Waves. The Rcompressor is one of the greatest plugins ever and sometimes Waves works better than UAD. But for the most important elements in a mix, often being drums, bass and vocals, i always use UAD. I think anyone can hear the difference if you compare Waves and UAD 1176 compressor followed by LA-2 in your lead vocal, the difference is huge. UAD plugins just have a character no Waves or any other plugin companies have in my opinion. I find myself using less EQ in vocals for example when i use the UAD compressors. I just listen the ruff vocal and think what do i want to add into this sound. Then i just pick up the right compressor if i want it brighter, more mids or more smoother. 1176 and LA-2 all 3 versions have different character. So does Waves 1176 blue and black have a different character but it´s just not even close to the UAD.

I think many of the Waves plugins are dated. UAD has released some new versions of their plugins in recent years and the improvement is huge. I actually like the Waves 1176 more than the UAD legacy versions but the new mk2 UAD models are just in another level. Some of the newer Waves plugins sounds pretty good, like the Scheps 73 for example.

If someone would ask me if i should put my money on Waves or UAD, i would say without hesitate UAD. Now you can get a good mix with any plugins nowadays if you know what you are doing but i find with UAD you can get good results much faster and easier with less processing. Many times i just use UAD compressor in some tracks with no compressing at all or Pulteq EQ with no boosting or cutting at all. I just use them to add character and bigness to a track. Something i don´t find myself doing with Waves because they lack the kind of character.
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