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Windows8 to run on phones, tablets, PCs; Run all W7 apps
Old 13th September 2011
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Windows8 to run on phones, tablets, PCs; Run all W7 apps

Windows 8 details: new features, UI enhancements and everything in between -- Engadget

the tl;dr:

- microsoft is apparently going with a "one OS to rule them all" approach that will cross platforms between phones, tablets and PCs
- compatible with both ARM and x86 architectures
- its also ~25% more resource-friendly than windows 7s
- switchable between the touch-friendly metro UI and the traditional windows7-ish aero UI
- robust multi-monitor support
- NFC transfer support
- heavy cloud integration for data
- will support all windows 7 programs and applications natively

so is this a game changer for music computing? Will tablets and phones become viable mobile DAWs? how does this change what tablets can do even in proper studios?


coupled with recent advancements in mobile tech (nvidia's quad core tegra3 anybody?) i think this is pretty exciting news.
Old 13th September 2011
  #2
Tui
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I am so exited, I mean excited.
Old 13th September 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
I think it's a good idea to have a tablet with a real computer OS instead of one designed for a smartphone. As soon as the first W8 tablet is released, there will be tens of thousands applications available for it, a great deal of which either free or extremely low cost.
Old 14th September 2011
  #4
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Lackatee's Avatar
You can download the developer version of Win 8 here. -> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/home/

Think I might give it a test drive on an old dual core, just out of curiosity. Probably won't be upgrading W7 for awhile though. It's working great for my uses.
Old 14th September 2011
  #5
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inthere's Avatar
 

They said it's going to boot up on all devices in less than 10 seconds too, that will be just sick.
Old 14th September 2011
  #6
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Solar's Avatar
 

I am soooooo waiting for the Final version released of Win8. I'm going to download the preview on my laptop and get a little sneak preview.

Old 14th September 2011
  #7
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tvsky's Avatar
does anyone know if you can run apps for one processor on the other? ie x86 apps on arm processors?

if so how is it done? virtualization ?
Old 14th September 2011
  #8
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ARIEL's Avatar
Wow , I am getting farther behind still on XP here for my 2 systems and Windows 8 ? I am still getting use out of my system mind you even though it does max out a bit at times . Just waiting on the i7 6 cores to drop down to the 300$ mark before I upgrade to anything yet .
Old 14th September 2011
  #9
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvsky View Post
does anyone know if you can run apps for one processor on the other? ie x86 apps on arm processors?

if so how is it done? virtualization ?
MS is currently trying to shift its .NET coders that do non-intensive coding (ie no x86 specific code) to a more platform agnostic like language..supposedly javascript according to the coverage from Slashdot/Freshmeat and the rest of the Gnu/GPL crowd but I've not been hanging around technet enough to tell how accurate that is. Anywa API calls, text strings and variables don't really need low level coding that's platform specific anyway, whether it's VBasic, VB.Net, C# or Python you can compile to multiple platforms (ARM, x86, DEC Alpha etc). As long as your IDE (Visual Studio or etc) and any libraries you call are already intact on that platform it's not terribly difficult.

For FLStudio to run on ARM on the other hand would take more effort.
Old 14th September 2011
  #10
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clonewar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
I think it's a good idea to have a tablet with a real computer OS instead of one designed for a smartphone.
That didn't work for MS the first time..




Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
As soon as the first W8 tablet is released, there will be tens of thousands applications available for it, a great deal of which either free or extremely low cost.
But how many of them will really be usable on a 10" tablet touch screen? That's one of the reasons that Win XP Tablet Edition failed in the first place. It will still be up to the developers to make tablet friendly user interfaces for their software.
Old 14th September 2011
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clonewar View Post
But how many of them will really be usable on a 10" tablet touch screen? That's one of the reasons that Win XP Tablet Edition failed in the first place. It will still be up to the developers to make tablet friendly user interfaces for their software.
Huh? Many people use a 10.7-inch netbook to browse the net and write on the go. It runs virtually every windows application. It would be absolutely no different on a tablet with the same size screen.

Tablets never caught on with the general public, but it's not Microsoft's fault. Apple is a religion and their followers buy their stuff no matter what. If Apple was pushing $500 netbooks instead of tablets, now every fanboi would have a netbook.
Old 14th September 2011
  #12
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Tablets never caught on before because

1. Nand flash hadn't matured to to where it has in its current forms, which enhances the Tablets' speediness tremendously (especially with an SSD which basically is highly parallel nand)

2. Display screens were much lower resolution (or greyscale) and bulkier close to a decade ago

3. The internals overall were slower or bulkier contributing to either lackluster performance, too much bulk/heat or both

Also I would add that Windows based tablet computing was so oriented (still) on the business sectors that handwriting and pen inputs were a huge focus, versus the touch interfaces that are making the biggest inroads now with consumers. Capacitive technology for touch even a few years ago wasn't widespread (mass produced and developed) enough to be accessible to consumers either. The technology was PRESENT but hadn't gained enough leverage in the market to overcome the waterfall to where something gains mainstream momentum and takes off in terms of development/maturing.

So the current state of cmos & surface mount technology as well as nand flash, touch interface and capacitive touch higher res display technology has simply matured to where tablet forms now finally have mainstream appeal. Apple's smart move was jumping in at the right time, and poo-pooing it before it was ready. Make no mistake though, there's quite a few Windows 'tablets' out there already in vertical markets running very specific software which you wouldn't expect to have MS behind. So again draw from the Mac vs. PC commercials...Apple sex appeal versus MS business appeal...at least until Windows 8.
Old 14th September 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Make no mistake though, there's quite a few Windows 'tablets' out there already in vertical markets running very specific software which you wouldn't expect to have MS behind.
True, a month ago was in a hospital for a checkup and I noticed that all their tablets were running Windows. A very odd Windows version (CE?)
Old 14th September 2011
  #14
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Mac have different OS for mobile devices. Therefore you can't run the same program between different OS.
I wonder which approach is better.
I guess time will tell.
Old 14th September 2011
  #15
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rectifier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Huh? Many people use a 10.7-inch netbook to browse the net and write on the go. It runs virtually every windows application. It would be absolutely no different on a tablet with the same size screen.

Tablets never caught on with the general public, but it's not Microsoft's fault. Apple is a religion and their followers buy their stuff no matter what. If Apple was pushing $500 netbooks instead of tablets, now every fanboi would have a netbook.
You seem to use the word 'fanboi' with Apple in every thread. It's extremely tedious. If I was admin of this board I would ban the word 'fanboy' as it is childish and counter productive.

I hope they address this: 'It's unclear how many "editions" (Home, Professional, Ultimate, etc.) of Windows 8 there will be..'
Old 14th September 2011
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Are you begging someone to censor the disgrace to boost apple's revenue?
Apple triggers 'religious' reaction in fans' brains, report says – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

At least for me the freedom of talking is more imortant than pushing up the revenue of apple pie.
Old 14th September 2011
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mowmow View Post
Mac have different OS for mobile devices. Therefore you can't run the same program between different OS.
I wonder which approach is better.
I guess time will tell.

The newest version of Mac OS supposed to integrate iOS and Mac platform. I dont like Microsoft approach. I think they should have a higher min requirements. trying to appeal to people isnt necessarily the best for platform. Sounds backwards but they need to improve the product not make it more accessable. It only holds back the platform.
Old 14th September 2011
  #18
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valis's Avatar
Both companies want to create a more 'unified experience' across 'all platforms' that they're available on. Translated: improve customer lockin to your overall portfolio of product sku's.
Old 14th September 2011
  #19
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This may help but the masses don't think windows is cool. Especially the young people. Everything they have tried that apple has done already has been a fail. Zune, Windows Phone, etc. Windows is trying to get rid of the label of "your father's operating system" and this looks like a step in the right direction.
Old 14th September 2011
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clonewar View Post
But how many of them will really be usable on a 10" tablet touch screen? That's one of the reasons that Win XP Tablet Edition failed in the first place. It will still be up to the developers to make tablet friendly user interfaces for their software.
because nobody develops programs for windows but seriously, if the apps are going to be available to every windows user. developers would salivate at the sales bump for developing a touch-optimized version of their already existing apps with such a broad user share. just think of how many devs have jumped on the ipad development bandwagon. Apple has sold ~20 million ipads since april '10. Microsoft has sold over 450 million windows 7 licenses since october of '09.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveByLyrics View Post
The newest version of Mac OS supposed to integrate iOS and Mac platform. I dont like Microsoft approach. I think they should have a higher min requirements. trying to appeal to people isnt necessarily the best for platform. Sounds backwards but they need to improve the product not make it more accessable. It only holds back the platform.
i can see what you're saying. most of the big stink when vista came out was people using it on underpowered computers. MS is kind of notorious for very liberal for minimum requirements in order to pitch a really big tent of users.


Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Tablets never caught on before because

1. Nand flash hadn't matured to to where it has in its current forms, which enhances the Tablets' speediness tremendously (especially with an SSD which basically is highly parallel nand)

2. Display screens were much lower resolution (or greyscale) and bulkier close to a decade ago

3. The internals overall were slower or bulkier contributing to either lackluster performance, too much bulk/heat or both

Also I would add that Windows based tablet computing was so oriented (still) on the business sectors that handwriting and pen inputs were a huge focus, versus the touch interfaces that are making the biggest inroads now with consumers. Capacitive technology for touch even a few years ago wasn't widespread (mass produced and developed) enough to be accessible to consumers either. The technology was PRESENT but hadn't gained enough leverage in the market to overcome the waterfall to where something gains mainstream momentum and takes off in terms of development/maturing.

So the current state of cmos & surface mount technology as well as nand flash, touch interface and capacitive touch higher res display technology has simply matured to where tablet forms now finally have mainstream appeal. Apple's smart move was jumping in at the right time, and poo-pooing it before it was ready. Make no mistake though, there's quite a few Windows 'tablets' out there already in vertical markets running very specific software which you wouldn't expect to have MS behind. So again draw from the Mac vs. PC commercials...Apple sex appeal versus MS business appeal...at least until Windows 8.
its going to be interesting... the free developer hardware MS is giving away at the BUILD conference is a (samsung-made) tablet with intel i5, 2GB ram and SSD. personally, i think i5 is going to be a joke for mass-market tablets (though decent for pro slates) because the x86 architecture is a battery killer and runs at way too high a temperature, but so far the ARM-ready W8 is not ready for developers yet. The tegra 3 quad is going to be very interesting, especially when paired with SSD and beefy ram by tablet standards.

tablet computing was always kind of bill gates' dream, but it took steve jobs to help it actualize. microsoft has been very conspicuously absent in the tablet wars so far, but it looks like they have been purposefully waiting to come out with a game-changing approach.

WP7 and now W8 are total paradigm shifts from android, ios and OSX. windows hasn't been sexy for a while, but you have to respect the huge risks they are taking with design and UI. If windows 8 gives you everything that people love about mobile OS's (i.e. lightweight, elegant) but also gives you the flexibility of a traditional PC environment then it could definitely change things.

just think about it. you can run reaper ON YOUR PHONE. you can sequence with cubase beat designer, or do sound-design and synth tweaking on your tablet. you can transport your VST presets from different environments on your phone. the possibilities are pretty much limitless.

it looks like you can finally marry productivity and consumption.
Old 14th September 2011
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do View Post
This may help but the masses don't think windows is cool. Especially the young people. Everything they have tried that apple has done already has been a fail. Zune, Windows Phone, etc. Windows is trying to get rid of the label of "your father's operating system" and this looks like a step in the right direction.
I understand someone think american big GM Cadelic cool but I thing Toyota Prius or Honda Insight is cool. Thought it doesn't have gorgeous design it just works as intended. It's fine to me.

Also , if young people think mac is cool or windows isn't cool all games' scene would have been shifting onto mac platform. Older people rather tend to think mac is cool because of their experience in the early ages of computer history. Youg people don't know about these things.
Old 14th September 2011
  #22
Gear Nut
 

The interface is ugly and looks like its for a beginner. Microsoft looks like it wants to play catchup. They are putting too much into the touchscreen experience. It makes me believe they really dont know what consumers need.
Old 14th September 2011
  #23
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clonewar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Huh? Many people use a 10.7-inch netbook to browse the net and write on the go. It runs virtually every windows application. It would be absolutely no different on a tablet with the same size screen.
Netbooks are completely different than tablets. Of course netbooks run every Windows application, they're just shrunken laptops, with full keyboards, trackpads and mouse buttons. That's what Windows applications are designed to input receive from, and is completely different than a device that only has a touch screen as it's input and applications have to respond to multiple touch points and gestures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Tablets never caught on with the general public, but it's not Microsoft's fault. Apple is a religion and their followers buy their stuff no matter what. If Apple was pushing $500 netbooks instead of tablets, now every fanboi would have a netbook.
Anti Apple evangelism is just as big of a religion. How many people do you know that have an Apple TV? I don't know a single person that has one, but I know several, including myself, that use an Xbox 360 and Xbox Live as their media centers.. And we all have iOS devices.

Previous tablets never caught on with the general public because the user experience was terrible. It sounds like you didn't get to spend much time with a Windows XP tablet. I'm not talking about a 'convertible' laptop tablet, I mean a real tablet with no keyboard or trackpad. About eight or nine years ago I had the good fortune to have to directly support them when the CEO of the large big box retailer I was working for came back from an executive conference with an NCR Win XP tablet that every exec had gotten for free. The device itself was pretty slick.. I believe it had a 12" screen, and was pretty thin. It came in a nice leather cover that made it feel like a book. Using it was very frustrating though. Valis is right, the hardware was too slow for the OS, especially with the Tablet Edition extras stapled on (like handwriting recognition). Battery life was bad. And navigating Windows and applications with the stylus was tedious and took much longer than with just a keyboard and mouse.

I'm a full time Windows .Net developer, believe me, I'm rooting for Win 8 to be a real contender in the tablet market. I like that MS is taking somewhat of a risk and going a different direction than Apple has gone.. But it's going to take developers adapting their applications to the tablet format for it to be really successful. And hopefully the nice hardware that was previewed on Engadget has more than two hours of battery life.
Old 14th September 2011
  #24
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Mats H's Avatar
I just installed Windows 8 developer edition on an old HP NX9420. It runs pretty well. I had to resort to using Vista drivers for the graphics adapter as there was no native support for it. The UI looks very cool i m o though it's obviously adapted for tablets. I can see myself getting a PC tablet within a couple of months (already have an Ipad) to try out as soon as Windows goes beta.

I've run the OS for about one hour now. Reaper works. RME Babyface works. I do get a pretty high DPC latency though but the drivers are CERTAINLY NOT up to date as of now for some devices.

Good fun!
Old 15th September 2011
  #25
Here for the gear
 

Then I would say the interface is cheesy and looks like its for a baby. Apple looks like it's in the kindergarten playground. They are putting too much cheesy effect on the graphic user interface. It makes me believe they really think consumers are not smart enough to distinguish what GUI really is intuitive.
Old 15th September 2011
  #26
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by schweinsteiger View Post
Then I would say the interface is cheesy and looks like its for a baby. Apple looks like it's in the kindergarten playground. They are putting too much cheesy effect on the graphic user interface. It makes me believe they really think consumers are not smart enough to distinguish what GUI really is intuitive.
one man's rudimentary is another man's elegant.


you have to remember you're talking touch-interface... there is a premium on touch efficiency vs. advanced capability. windows 8 does offer a traditional desktop interface as well. i wonder if that's MS refusing to go all-in on metro UI or whether they want to preserve the traditional desktop for its advanced capabilities with a traditional keyboard/mouse combo.
Old 15th September 2011
  #27
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Don't try to persuade me. It's not my word. Just borrowed LoveByLyrics' word. I personaly don't have any affection for operating softwares. I just put the fanboy trap in this thread. Read whole posts before signal reflex man.
Old 15th September 2011
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowmow View Post
Mac have different OS for mobile devices. Therefore you can't run the same program between different OS.
I wonder which approach is better.
I guess time will tell.
They're actively moving toward a unified OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schweinsteiger View Post
Then I would say the interface is cheesy and looks like its for a baby. Apple looks like it's in the kindergarten playground. They are putting too much cheesy effect on the graphic user interface. It makes me believe they really think consumers are not smart enough to distinguish what GUI really is intuitive.
I have to say that Windows Phone and the Win 8 screenshots I've seen all look really cheezy/childlike. I'm reminded of the horrible original XP "Tonka Toy" look. First thing I did was change that back to 'classic' Windows look. Win Media Center (which is technically what I run, though stripped of all the actual Media Center components) had a much better look but I've still reverted back to 'Win Classic' interface style with a couple exceptions like shadows under menus and mouse pointer -- which are actual improvements, unlike doltish crap like the slow-roll-out animated menus.

But the big colored squares I see in Win 8 shots... WTF? It looks like going back to Windows 3's horrible non-desktop desktop or something.

http://www.zdnet.com/photos/microsof...t;feature-roto
Old 15th September 2011
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post

Tablets never caught on with the general public, but it's not Microsoft's fault. Apple is a religion and their followers buy their stuff no matter what. If Apple was pushing $500 netbooks instead of tablets, now every fanboi would have a netbook.
I mean, really, PaPi, it is getting a little old. That also doesn't make any kind of sense from any marketing perspective... since Apple didn't make netbooks, wouldn't it make more sense to say that their market research indicated that customers didn't want them? Or do you really mean to tell us that if Apple had made one, it would have been successful despite notebooks having been relatively successful from every other manufacturer? So if Apple had made a product that bombed in the marketplace, it would have been successful somehow because they made it? But if there was such a frustrated market for it, why wouldn't they have bought the ones that were out there? Only because it didn't have a glowing Apple on it? They why didn't any of the other nine out of ten computer users, who presumably haven't been brainwashed by Apple? Why did Windows users pass on netbooks?

I mean, the amount of blinders needed to come to that conclusion is just staggering. You really need to step back, take a breath, and maybe a vacation... let the marketplace determine Apple vs. Microsoft, you don't have to tilt at that windmill every day on Gearslutz yourself, you know.

As far as Apple being a religion, that's just stupid. There are dozens of failed Apple products throughout the years, in fact the entire company almost failed before they re-emerged. This is hardly what would happen if consumers supported Apple with the behavior of acolytes. Look at the relative failure of Apple TV, the large defection of pro video workers from Final Cut Pro X to the crossgrade of Adobe Premiere. To state that Apple purchasers are somehow unable to think for themselves in the marketplace is just stupid, and you aren't making yourself appear more "edgy" or intelligent by repeating it over and over and over and over on this website here. Get a grip, man.

It's clear you for some reason can't understand why people buy Apple products, and are happy with them. That's whatever. But when you assume that those people don't have access to the higher understanding of what it is they are buying that you do, and are only doing it because they need to identify with a group, well, that's the nadir of intelligent discourse. When you tell us, on all kinds of threads, that if only we knew what you knew, then we would make the decisions you make with your money, you just look a fool. You should be ashamed of yourself for continually bringing it onto threads like these.

OK? Cut it out.






As far as Windows 8- you know, the topic- I've been doing some reading on it today, actually. I have to admit I'm a little confused.

It is a huge gamble for Microsoft. Windows 7 isn't that old, and is a very good operating system... a real hit. For them to not capitalize on that success tells me that Microsoft is really placing a bet on the future of what computing is going to be. They might be right... they've done far more research than I... on the other hand, though, we could see another Vista circumstance where their core users in the business environment don't see any reason to move from W.7 into an environment that seems to be more of a mobile OS. At the minimum, I think we'll find that Microsoft will have a tougher sell with this one than a lot of other OS's in the past.

So that's gamble number one. The next is that Microsoft is betting on what the computer of the future is going to be, and they seem to have concluded that it's likely to be some sort of pad style computer. They may be right, but so far, no one outside of Apple has really found a way to be commercially successful yet- look no further than HP's aborted attempt to enter the market, which they soon concluded wasn't going to be profitable. I can't imagine that there isn't going to be anything but a robust presence of Microsoft based tablet computers, but that isn't the case now, and that's why it's a pretty big risk for Microsoft.

That brings us to Windows 8 on a non-touch surface computer like a traditional laptop or desktop. Obviously I haven't used Windows 8, and it isn't ready anyway and could change at any time. It might also be fan-tastic. But I think we can agree that it's certainly a radical departure from what everyone has gotten used to over the last twenty years or so (on both platforms). And I know that there is the Desktop in Windows 8 that is to return a user to the traditional computing experience that they are used to (I haven't see it). But still, in the world of business, this is what you would call a real risk.

Anyway, while there is a lot of risk, there is also a lot for Microsoft to gain from this. Having one unified platform that delivers a stable and fast experience across multiple platforms would really give them a huge edge. Apple is moving towards the same goal, although in a slower way, you can see this with the new Apple Lion (which I am typing this now on and am not a fan).

Regardless, I'll keep an eye on this. Interesting times in the world of computing.
Old 15th September 2011
  #30
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
But the big colored squares I see in Win 8 shots... WTF? It looks like going back to Windows 3's horrible non-desktop desktop or something.
Well it is for touch screens. You can't have too small fiddly details because you can't "click" on them with big fat fingers. (Big and fat compared to a mouse pointer). These squares are called Tiles. They are similar to Android widgets.

Building "Windows 8" - Video #1 - YouTube

That said, I hope it will be possible to use smaller Tiles too. And anyway, there will be shell replacements like there always are... Not to mention just running it in Win 7 mode on a desktop/laptop.

Alistair
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