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Windows8 to run on phones, tablets, PCs; Run all W7 apps
Old 16th September 2011
  #61
MediaMix
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I saw a friend load up Pro Tools on a Windows 7 machine and at start up an icon came up saying Pro Tools was going to Windows 7 basic (and disabling aero theme).
Old 16th September 2011
  #62
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
My XP machine boots up in 125 MB of RAM. It has a system latency that typically runs from 5 to 35 microseconds.
Your PC is a wuss. My previous system running XP booted with 13 processes and never went over 12 micro seconds latency whatever I did. :-D (Dual Opteron on Tyan board with the fastest RAM I could find at the time).

Quote:
Try that in your 'modern' OS.
I don't have to. This system with it's higher latency and many more processes running is many times more powerful than my previous XP system. And that is all that really counts. :-)

Alistair
Old 16th September 2011
  #63
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaMix View Post
I saw a friend load up Pro Tools on a Windows 7 machine and at start up an icon came up saying Pro Tools was going to Windows 7 basic (and disabling aero theme).
Some applications that need full-app GDI+ support will also attempt to lock the front buffer, which causes Aero to disable itself (ie, their window chrome and UI buttons are drawn by their own legacy code and not windows API calls and they either lock the front buffer for video display purposes, use DirectDraw API calls, or don't properly test for composition modes). Display Mirror drivers (VNC) and other things do this as well, as the data needs to be cpu-local.

Most legacy applications will simply disable Aero for their own UI but composite things back into Aero's desktop once done drawing within their window.

It may be that this person purposefully had the application set to disable Aero on launch (I don't use PT on Windows).

Afaik PT 9 works fine with Aero (though in typical Avid fashion they only 'qualify' Quadros and higher level ATI cards in their hardware compatibility list).
Old 17th September 2011
  #64
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
I think it's a good idea to have a tablet with a real computer OS instead of one designed for a smartphone. As soon as the first W8 tablet is released, there will be tens of thousands applications available for it, a great deal of which either free or extremely low cost.
Apparently not
Windows 8 program stores reading: Tablet can not use existing PC program - NewsO/Microsoft

Cheers
Old 17th September 2011
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Your PC is a wuss. My previous system running XP booted with 13 processes and never went over 12 micro seconds latency whatever I did. :-D (Dual Opteron on Tyan board with the fastest RAM I could find at the time).
I prefer to think of my machine as built for comfort, not speed. heh

Sure, I could get both the number of service processes and RAM footprint down if I wanted, but this is a machine I use for everything: audio production, video editing, graphics, web and database developing, not to mention virtually all my electronic entertainment.

BTW, the basic box cost me $344 (not including tax+shipping) refurbished from Dell five years ago. It's a single core 2.8 mHz P4 with the HT extensions. I ended up quadrupling the RAM and replacing the 80 GB Seagate with a 1 TB WD [which is much quieter and faster, too].

Quote:
I don't have to. This system with it's higher latency and many more processes running is many times more powerful than my previous XP system. And that is all that really counts. :-)

Alistair
Well, sure... if you throw enough cores and a whole bunch of RAM at things, I'd like to think you should see an increase in powerfulness -- maybe not a linear concomitancy, perhaps -- but an increase.

That said, the only two places where I do find myself occasionally wishing I had more power are in video rendering -- editing, OTOH, is slick as I use Vegas and it's very efficient at providing realtime, no-wait preview of edits and FX -- and when it comes to stacking up big bunches of audio FX and VI plug ins in my DAW. But there, again, I use built-in efficiencies in my tools to ease my way. Track freeze allows me to work without limiting myself (albeit with the occasional brief wait while I do a quick track freeze on some CPU-guzzling VI).

And when I'm not working on audio or video, I live large, with regard to opening -- and leaving open -- apps. It is not at all uncommon for me to have 10 or 20 or more browser windows open, a photo editor, Dreamweaver (HTML editing environment), an audio player [actually more likely these days to be MOG running in a Chrome browser window] or a video player, and sometimes MS Access or a SQL client. Etc.

Sure, someday, I guess I'll probably move to a 64 bit system -- and I suppose it will likely be MS's current one -- if it's not some dumbed down "tablet-friendly" compromise with nursery school icons and dumb ass full screen apps.

heh

[PS... Of course, there is a certain amount of wry humor at work here... but I'm kind of serious, too. It cracks me up when I see folks with fire-breathing hot rod machines who are having problems getting the same track counts I got a dozen years ago on far, far slower machines with much less of everything -- except efficiency.]
Old 17th September 2011
  #66
Gear Head
 

I have a hard time understanding how people can get any work done on a tablet or Ipad.

At home I use a desktop with a 22" monitor. At work I use a laptop docked to a 24" monitor. When the lease expires I'll replace it with a desktop so I can add a second 24" monitor.

How could I possibly get any real work done on a 6" or 8" or 10" screen? Watch videos, sure. Take short emails and IMs, sure. But real work is merely "okay" on a single 24" screen. Can't really do anything on the small screen. Ya cna't eevn tip pruperlee on thsoe.
Old 17th September 2011
  #67
Gear Head
 

Re: that web page.
Is it a poor translation from another language?
Or is the author simply illiterate?
Old 17th September 2011
  #68
Lives for gear
 
clonewar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhorwinkle View Post
I have a hard time understanding how people can get any work done on a tablet or Ipad.

At home I use a desktop with a 22" monitor. At work I use a laptop docked to a 24" monitor. When the lease expires I'll replace it with a desktop so I can add a second 24" monitor.

How could I possibly get any real work done on a 6" or 8" or 10" screen? Watch videos, sure. Take short emails and IMs, sure. But real work is merely "okay" on a single 24" screen. Can't really do anything on the small screen. Ya cna't eevn tip pruperlee on thsoe.
That's because the desktop OS and software that you use is designed for high resolution monitors and/or multiple monitors. You can be very productive with software that's specifically designed for a 10" multi-touch tablet screen.

But your point is valid and is one of the main reasons that previous MS attempts at tablets (Windows XP Tablet Edition) failed.
Old 18th September 2011
  #69
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inthere's Avatar
 

I think Win 8 will go over huge. Less than 10 second boot on all devices? Yep. Exactly the same operating system? Check. That means scrolling and touch interfaces on trackpads, which Lion is doing right now.

After using Lions' touch multitouch scrolling and browsing I have a hard time going back to Snow Leopard, much less Windows. Everything is so blazing fast and easy. It really is a pleasant experience. People don't understand that Apple has really raised the bar substantially with the user experience with Lion. I agree that they were basically the same before, with Windows being even slightly faster, but not now.

I see Win 8 as having the same multitouch functionality with at least twice the speed of Lion. Apps will run way faster, and you'll have hundreds of thousands of Windows apps from inception. I'll definitely be on board if that happens.
Old 18th September 2011
  #70
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
After using Lions' touch multitouch scrolling and browsing I have a hard time going back to Snow Leopard, much less Windows. Everything is so blazing fast and easy. It really is a pleasant experience. People don't understand that Apple has really raise the bar substantially with the user experience with Lion. I agree that they were basically the same before, with Windows being even slightly faster, but not now.

I see Win 8 as having the same multitouch functionality with at least twice the speed of Lion. Apps will run way faster, and you'll have hundreds of thousands of Windows apps from inception. I'll definitely be on board if that happens.
For both Lion and Win 8 if the increase of interface / user experience speed comes at a cost for low-level applications like audio that need raw real-time power, that might be a problem. If on the other hand it comes from offloading more of the GUI to the GPU and other such techniques, then bring it on! :-)

Alistair
Old 18th September 2011
  #71
Lives for gear
 
inthere's Avatar
 

That may be the case with Lion; there have been reports of slightly lower benchmarks on Lion vs Snow Leopard. But I think the opposite is going to be the case with Win 8. From what I read it's going to be seriously stripped down..........less than 10 seconds boot time............able to run the full OS on a phone...........Apple is going to have to come out with "Snow" Lion or another OS to compete with that.
Old 18th September 2011
  #72
Gear Maniac
 

It will be interesting to see whether the huge gamble Microsoft takes will pay off. At the moment Apple practically owns the tablet market but it is a very young market and anything can happen. Even if W8 boots as fast as it does I don't thing the apps will be as fast on it as compared to W7 but I guess we'll find out when W8 is delivered. Kudos to MS anyway for not just blindingly copying Apple but coming on with their own stuff.
Old 18th September 2011
  #73
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inthere's Avatar
 

Well fortunately technology has gotten to the point where "One OS for everything" could actually work. I'm excited. Can't wait for Windows users to experience the multitouch gestures thing I've been going on about.

There will have to be special mice and trackpads designed for it, but won't be a problem with Microsoft.
Old 18th September 2011
  #74
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
Well fortunately technology has gotten to the point where "One OS for everything" could actually work. I'm excited. Can't wait for Windows users to experience the multitouch gestures thing I've been going on about.

There will have to be special mice and trackpads designed for it, but won't be a problem with Microsoft.
I think Logitech has already come out with a rival for Apple's Magic Trackpad.
Old 18th September 2011
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by yore View Post
It will be interesting to see whether the huge gamble Microsoft takes will pay off. At the moment Apple practically owns the tablet market but it is a very young market and anything can happen. Even if W8 boots as fast as it does I don't thing the apps will be as fast on it as compared to W7 but I guess we'll find out when W8 is delivered. Kudos to MS anyway for not just blindingly copying Apple but coming on with their own stuff.
I hope you optimists are right. I reverse-highlighted that last sentence, though, because I can't shake the contrary notion that that is, actually, exactly what MS seems to be doing.
Old 18th September 2011
  #76
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I reverse-highlighted that last sentence, though, because I can't shake the contrary notion that that is, actually, exactly what MS seems to be doing.
You mean tablets are not a new concept?

Newton (platform) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Alistair
Old 18th September 2011
  #77
Lives for gear
 
inthere's Avatar
 

I thought he was talking about the multitouch gestures in the OS. They're doing it, only they're doing it better than Apple. Apple has been inching towards the one OS-fits-all-devices thing for years, now MS is going to beat them to it.
Old 18th September 2011
  #78
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
I thought he was talking about the multitouch gestures in the OS.
Could be. I was just being silly. :-D

Alistair
Old 19th September 2011
  #79
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
My XP machine boots up in 125 MB of RAM. It has a system latency that typically runs from 5 to 35 microseconds.

Try that in your 'modern' OS.
windows 8 runs on 128mb
Old 19th September 2011
  #80
Lives for gear
 
taturana's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I prefer to think of my machine as built for comfort, not speed. heh
that's why i am using an abacus instead of a computer to record...

the blue, i resisted upgrading to W7 until a few months ago... now i am asking myself why i didn't do it earlier... my machine (a 4gb 2.8ghz quad cores) runs a lot better and faster with win 7 than when it was using xp (actually i have the original xp installation on another drive, but i never use it). win 7 is a Win-win situation... (sorry for the Pun heh )

as far as the number of tracks an cpu consumption, W7 64 with sonar running in 64 bit simply kicks ass...
Old 19th September 2011
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
I thought he was talking about the multitouch gestures in the OS. They're doing it, only they're doing it better than Apple. Apple has been inching towards the one OS-fits-all-devices thing for years, now MS is going to beat them to it.
Let's not forget that MS was showing off multi-touch prototypes around a decade ago.

I won't weigh in on how well they're doing it or how well they're doing it in comparison, since I don't have a touch screen desktop (and use an Android phone).


I am, however, greatly disheartened that MS has announced that they will be aping Apple in one very significant way:

While developing for the Windows 'desktop UI' lurking 'beneath' the new Metro UI (on desktop machines) will still follow the old, open development model which certainly helped make Windows hugely popular (since there was a wealth of applications for all sorts of niche uses as well as the big, profit-center applications), developing for Metro will be tightly controlled and limited to an 'elite' subset of developers.

In Apple's case, of course, it's those who will pay the developer registration fees, own a Mac and one or more iOS devices and jump through a number of hoops of Apple's choosing. With MS, it's not clear yet just how far down that road to exclusivity they will go -- but it's clearly part of a disturbing trend away from the sort of open systems that drew and held many of us in the first place.

Central control.

Some folks long for the lash and the yoke, I guess.
Old 19th September 2011
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by re-animator View Post
Yeah... I didn't find that too impressive, frankly. And the keyword in this sentence, "Meanwhile, Marcin Grygiel has awarded himself the I'm HARDCORE!!! title for somehow getting it to run on a PC with just 128MB," would seem to be somehow.
Old 19th September 2011
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by taturana View Post
that's why i am using an abacus instead of a computer to record...

the blue, i resisted upgrading to W7 until a few months ago... now i am asking myself why i didn't do it earlier... my machine (a 4gb 2.8ghz quad cores) runs a lot better and faster with win 7 than when it was using xp (actually i have the original xp installation on another drive, but i never use it). win 7 is a Win-win situation... (sorry for the Pun heh )

as far as the number of tracks an cpu consumption, W7 64 with sonar running in 64 bit simply kicks ass...
Well, sure... eventually I'll move to 64 bit hardware and certainly to an OS that makes sense on the hardware I get.

But the bottom line is that I'm currently able to do everything I need to do -- and that is, as noted, a lot -- with almost no compromise on a machine that has served me very well for over 5 years, is very quiet, very reliable (touch wood) and which cost me less about $500 after I increased the RAM and added FW. Sure, it would be nice to not have to freeze the occasional track in Sonar, but it's not like it takes up much of my time -- an extra few minutes a month I can spend watching birds fly by my window. As opposed to going out and throwing a bunch of money at a problem that doesn't really exist.


And, frankly, I've been damn sorry I sold the abacus I received as a gift when I was a kid. I was taking my first college programming class at the time (1973) and, for some idiotic reason, a stack of punch cards in my hand, I felt like my abacus was somehow outmoded. OTOH, the neighborhood kid I sold it to was fascinated, so it's probably all good.

I think they ought to bring them back. I'm pretty sure that using an abacus in grade school (no such thing as pocket calculators back then and slide rules were a bit controversial at my school, as the precision of the typical rule was so lacking) helped me grasp binary and other math bases much more easily.
Old 20th September 2011
  #84
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Yeah... I didn't find that too impressive, frankly. And the keyword in this sentence, "Meanwhile, Marcin Grygiel has awarded himself the I'm HARDCORE!!! title for somehow getting it to run on a PC with just 128MB," would seem to be somehow.
yep. windows xp on 125 mb is much more impressive
Old 20th September 2011
  #85
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mowmow View Post
Mac have different OS for mobile devices. Therefore you can't run the same program between different OS.
Not quite true. iOS and OSX share the same foundation. I´m not sure how much code apps for the two os´s actually share, but I guess apps like Mail, iMovie, Spotify etc. has lots of shared code on the two OS´s. But obviously the GUI and APIs must adapt to the device form factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
They said it's going to boot up on all devices in less than 10 seconds too, that will be just sick.
That´s impressive if true. Almost as good like the wife´s MacBookAir!
Old 20th September 2011
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by re-animator View Post
yep. windows xp on 125 mb is much more impressive
Touché. heh


Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm clinging to the past.

To be sure, if I was buying or building a new machine I would not be bending over backwards to put XP on it. For one thing, I'd never buy or build a 32 bit system at this point in time.

Win 7 looks like a pretty good OS as things go these days, to be sure. But Win 8 -- and that kindergarten Metro interface in particular -- make me nervous. (Not to mention that MS will be following the Apple lead and supposedly tightly restricting developer access to Metro.)
Old 20th September 2011
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalle789 View Post
Not quite true. iOS and OSX share the same foundation. I´m not sure how much code apps for the two os´s actually share, but I guess apps like Mail, iMovie, Spotify etc. has lots of shared code on the two OS´s. But obviously the GUI and APIs must adapt to the device form factor.

[...]
Apple is thought to be moving toward a supposedly unified OS -- with iOS thought to be the dominant genetic strain, at least as far as UI issues go.

http://www.redmondpie.com/apple-plan...-says-analyst/

http://osxdaily.com/2011/08/03/os-x-...ing-next-year/
Old 20th September 2011
  #88
Lives for gear
 
taturana's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
And, frankly, I've been damn sorry I sold the abacus I received as a gift when I was a kid
they still teach kids to use the abacus in china... maybe that's why they are taking over...
Old 20th September 2011
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by taturana View Post
they still teach kids to use the abacus in china... maybe that's why they are taking over...
I found this virtual abacus...

Virtual Abacus

And immediately realized that I'd forgotten even basic operations.

If I hadn't forgotten how to do long division in less than a decade after my last math class,* I'd be kind of surprised.

EDIT: Ah... I found this... it's coming back. The key is complementary numbers.


* I was able to 'reconstruct' the process from shards of memory within a few minutes but it was still really shocking to me, as I'd been good at math, at least according to the nice folks at the SAT college entrance exams.
Old 20th September 2011
  #90
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Apple is thought to be moving toward a supposedly unified OS -- with iOS thought to be the dominant genetic strain, at least as far as UI issues go.

Apple Plans To Merge OS X And iOS In 2012, Says Analyst | Redmond Pie

OS X and iOS to Begin Merging Next Year, According to Analyst
Yes - and the OSXdaily article actually says the same as I said in my first post... 2012 seems a bit early to me. We´ll see....
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