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How Do I Setup/Configure a PC to Run Like a Mac
Old 9th September 2011
  #1
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How Do I Setup/Configure a PC to Run Like a Mac

Short version of question: how do I configure through settings changes, or what do I need to add as far as hardware (e.g., soundcard, video card) for a PC to perform as well as a Mac for the purposes of a studio computer running a lot of VSTis.

Longer version/explanation: I've seen people say there is no difference in performance between a Mac and a PC, that its a matter of personal taste. However, this has not been my experience. I started recording on a Dell Inspiron laptop (Pentium M, 1.6GHz, 496MB RAM)---once I started running Cubase with VSTis and taxing sample libraries, I started regularly experiencing crashes with even the most simplest tasks. I bought a refurbished Power Mac (G5 2GHz 2.5GB RAM) which performed much better, but eventually the Mac died for reasons unrelated to studio work. I should note that even this Mac struggled to run more than 4 VSTis simultaneously.

I loved how stress-free work was with my brief time with the Mac. With my Dell, not all of the crashes were due to the light-weight RAM/memory/speed. There were hardware conflicts and error messages, and the system ran at a stagnated pace in Cubase and other hosts, whereas Apple was from the start working perfectly with these programs, like it was made specifically for Cubase or something. But, I don't have an unlimited budget, and after watching deal websites for 5 months now for an even remotely good deal on a Mac, I see that Macs never really go "on sale".

So, assuming the RAM/processor/speed/memory are the same as a Mac, is there anything else I can do myself as far as settings changes or by adding special hardware that can eliminate some of the system conflicts I get with the PC? BTW, I am using an Alesis MultiMix audio interface, so I really have no need for a dedicated sound card unless there is a particular reason that it would boost performance. I have seen some "specialists" who run businesses boasting that they can build a PC that will perform as smoothly as a Mac will in studio work, so I know I'm not alone in my impression that Macs run better for music work.

If I can use a PC, even with the purchase of some additional hardware, I could easily save $400 or more. I'm willing to pay the additional $400+ for a Mac if it will ensure smooth performance, but it would take a few more months to do so...so if anyone can offer any thoughts on this, I would really appreciate your assistance.
Old 9th September 2011
  #2
This does not have specific answers to your question but it may give you a more objective view of the situation:

http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm
Old 9th September 2011
  #3
Gear Addict
 

You need to understand how computers work to fully understand pc vs mac (I don't mean any disrespect). You compared a much better spec'ed mac to a low spec pc. I use both daily, I actually find windows faster on the same equipment than osx. DO NOT BUY an outdated Mac. They will not support G5 macs (neither will software developers).

Get someone to build you a new i3 pc for $400 with a clean version of windows 7 without bloatware. I promise that will be faster than a G5 mac.
Old 9th September 2011
  #4
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also, don't let the mac 'bling' sway your decision. Again this is coming from a windows and osx user.
Old 9th September 2011
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for the information. I understand the specs are much different on my Dell and Mac, but even so, I encountered some hardware conflicts early on in the PC that really have little to do with the specs.

I guess my concerns with the PC are to avoid system crashes, hardware conflicts, and otherwise have it run as smoothly as a Mac would. If I can get the same performance with multimedia (I should note I also would be using some basic video production software on this machine), I will be happy to avoid the bling/hype/cost of the Mac.

Also another concern I have is Internet/viruses. I have heard PC owners on studio machines say to never even plug in that PC to the internet for fear of spyware/viruses/etc clogging up your system. Many of the VSTis I am interested in purchasing in the near future are available only by direct download, from the manufacturer's sites and other less trustworthy third-party sites. Any thoughts on this? Anti-virus programs seem to put a drain on your PC comparable to a virus anyways, so I'd prefer to avoid those.
Old 9th September 2011
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Windows 7 now has a free anti-virus program that works really well. As far as viruses go, just stay on trusted websites if you are planning on using it for studio work.

The reason why macs work better is simple: they use high quality parts. People always want to get the cheapest pc and then wonder why its not as fast as a mac that costs 2, 3, 4, or even 5 times more than the pc they're comparing it to.

Now, with all that said. I can easily recommend you to buy the newest low end Mac Mini for $600 and add 8gb of ram for $50. For $650, you get your mac, and it will be pretty darn fast compared to what you've using. Or, for around the same specs you can build a pc for about $550 (that's with a copy of windows 7).

Hope that helps.
Old 9th September 2011
  #7
If you're talking "high quality" parts just build a pc. I just made an i7 build that smokes anything out there. I'm ver pleased.

Equal spec and hardware, it's a matter of taste. I've had a hassle-free windows experience my whole life

Cheers!
Old 9th September 2011
  #8
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After reading a lot of stuff on this forum I was gonna build an X58 PC. The total came to around $1400. Then I found this '09 MacPro for $1600 and went with that. It's the same basic architecture, but speccing it up will be another $300. Sometime later I may drop in a W3565 or do the hack that enables hexacore support and go for a W3670.

I still wanna build that PC and if it works well I will gradually migrate. I want to step into this with an open mind, but my past experiences with Windows are such that I do not want to switch without having a Mac to fall back on.

IME, when it comes to dependability, the difference is not trivial, but I hear that Win7 is much better than earlier versions.
Old 9th September 2011
  #9
OP, you simply had a terrible configuration, which is the hardest part with off-the-shelf PC's, especially compared with Macs. That being said, Windows 7 is performing great for audio use, and doesn't really need much tweaks.

Check here on GS for some working user setups, contact them for help and just install W7 64 bit on that, or contact a DAW builder to do it for you. An off the shelf PC is usually full of wrong components and crippled with bloatware.
Old 9th September 2011
  #10
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You cannot configure a PC to run like a Mac, because:

1. There are fundamental differences in underlying technologies that cannot be overcome by configuration settings (EFI, fsevents, launchd, hardware specific custom firmware etc on the Mac, Registry on Windows)
2. Configuring a PC to run without antivirus software, while still having it connected to the internet, makes no sense (no experienced Mac user would consider installing antivirus software..).


When comparing performance, looking at specs on paper makes no sense. You can build a PC with great specs on paper that performs superbly when running 1 app at a time, but is useless in a realistic work environment (on my work Mac, it's not uncommon to have 25-35 apps running at the same time, with 40 browser tabs open..). The only meaningful test is to see if a machine performs well for your specific workflow.
Old 9th September 2011
  #11
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Running DAW with internet connection that make Mac a better choice. Often I need to do that, otherwise I would buy a PC.
Old 9th September 2011
  #12
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There's a lot of biased discussion in this thread, as there usually is. My own personal bias is this: I've run Windows since Win 2.0, Mac since the Apple II and used unix machines since Dell & Data General through HPUX/IRIX/SCO on through modern OSX and Windows 7....

First question would be, did you buy a consumer dell machine or one from their business department? If you step up to workstation class offerings from any company (Dell, HP etc) you tend to get considerably better configurations with better build quality. Still, Dell isn't what it used to be (nor is HP) so an audio user wanting a "PC" would be better served buying it from a DAW specific company if you're not up to--or don't have the time to--building it yourself. There are 2 well known companies that frequent these forums, one from the US (ADK) and one from the UK (someone remind me who he is please) as well as companies like Rain Computers. These machines will not only run as you want but will come with the support that meets or exceeds what you will get from Applecare...

Secondly, using both Mac & PC for many years I've never had a virus or infection and under Windows I run AV software that uses less than a tenth of a percent of a modern computing performance. The trick is to avoid crapware like McAffee & Norton and go for ESET Nod32/Smart Security, Kaspersky and so on. Also avoid public 'untrusted' sites for gathering software, these will lead to problems on both Mac and PC (OSX version Adobe CS4 suites had a trojan if you got them from ill-gotten sources for instance).

And for Win7's multitasking, multithreading...it's not only comparable to OSX in terms of the number of things you can run (given similarly configured systems) but the multicore performance is still slightly ahead in both audio and graphics/3d/video apps in my experience. Still as I've said I use both OSes and many different computer configurations from an identical Mac Pro running 10.6.8 and a dual Xeon octocore running Win7 64bit, smaller single socket machines (dual core iMac & quadcore AMD boxes running Win7) and so on...and all work fine within their limits.
Old 10th September 2011
  #13
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A friend of mine recently purchased a custom built audio PC. It was expensive. It does not recognize USB disks when you plug them in, you have to reboot for that. Great looking specs, though. And he will definitely be able to deliver good sounding recordings with it...
Old 10th September 2011
  #14
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Every time there's a thread like this (someone asking for PC help), there's always a mac fanatic coming here to tell us that Win 7 is oh-so-bad and that he has a "friend" whose virus-riddled PC explodes three times a day. Just give it up, keep your precious mac but don't come here to belittle people who make different choices.

For the record, I used to be mac-only until 2008, when I switched to a Windows-based system. Never looked back. Since then I've built several machines, one more powerful than the other, and never experienced any serious problem. Oh, and BTW, no malware at all. You'd have to be pretty stupid to get malware in this day and age, and if you're really that naive, owning a mac won't save you either (ever heard of mac defender?) Incidentally, Win7 does multitasking much better than OSX, so, there goes another lie.

My current rig includes three i7-based PC's, one master and two VEP slaves. This system performs flawlessly and delivers professional results comparable to any similarly-configured mac system that would cost at least three times as much (try buying three nicely-configured mac pros...) And because PC's are more flexible, I know exactly what's in my machines (only the best components) and I can replace any part any time I wish.

Finally, building a PC is a lot simpler than people who have a vested interest in you not knowing that would have you believe. I'm a professional musician, not an IT guy.
Old 10th September 2011
  #15
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I use have used macs extensively in the past, and still use an intel mac on occasion for internet access. I now rely upon PC's for primary internet and for my DAW. I've used PC's for DAW use since about 2000.

There's really no simple answer. They are very different and vary alot from model to model, operating system to operating system. The old macs actually crashed a lot--pre OS X. And macs are starting to become more vulnerable to malware due to increased popularity in recent years.

I opted for a PC as a DAW because of...

* price
* customizability
* more freeware available
* availability of replacement parts
* wide user base and therefore wide support

Otherwise, I would have gone for a Mac because of aesthetics and stability.
There's no simple answer though, and opinion weighs in a lot.
Old 10th September 2011
  #16
Quote:
Windows 7 is actually more secure than OS X
-- MacWorld, Mac Defender: Pay attention but don't panic | Antivirus & Security | Macworld


Keep your OS and applications patched and up to date, avoid malware vectors like crackware, porn, and pirate sites and you should be pretty safe on either platform.

I don't use background-running anti-virus software -- and my recording machine has had an always-on 'net connection since 1999 or so -- because such background resident software puts a huge load on any system it runs on and often misses the latest threats -- which are the ones you would really need it to watch out for.

I do keep everything updated and run periodic scans using software like MalwareBytes that runs and unloads clean and doesn't mess with your boot profile.
Old 10th September 2011
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post

I don't use background-running anti-virus software
You could have the best of both worlds by installing an antivirus that's easy to switch off when you're not on the net (presumably, you don't use your DAW while surfing the internet, right?) Like Avast, for example.
Old 11th September 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
This does not have specific answers to your question but it may give you a more objective view of the situation:

DAW Bench : DAW Performance Benchmarking
This was quite an interesting read. I am buying a Creation Station Rack XT from Sweetwater Sound. After reading that I feel like I made a good sound decision. I can also draw that with a Mac the software/os makes all the difference in performance.

Someone said something about the average PC vs A mac and, that really makes sense. The average PC will not likely be as good as an out of the box mac. But I also have come to the conclusion after much research and reading that when you get into custom built PCs the game changes quite a bit.
Old 11th September 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Just give it up, keep your precious mac but don't come here to belittle people who make different choices.
You can't really blame anybody when the OP is the one that wants to configure their PC to run like a Mac.heh

Well, if that's what they're looking for, then I would suggest that they install Mac OS X on their PC (as long as they have a compatible PC), and run Mac OS X. Then their PC will work like a Mac.

If somebody had a Mac and they posted a question asking how to get it to run more like a PC, I'd tell them to simply install Windows 7 on their Mac.
Old 11th September 2011
  #20
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For someone who wants a turnkey system, a hack isn't really the best way to get it to 'run like a Mac' given that even following a 'guide' relatively closely can leave you with components that still vary and need specific fixes. The time invested isn't minimal due to that and if your upstream maintainers disappear you're on your own when it comes to upgrades. Hacks are really for those who want to 'build their own mac like they do with peecee' imo...and achieve similar savings and familiarity with their hardware.

And I run Macs because of Mac software that I/we use (Logic, Final Cut Pro etc). I run Win7 for other software I use (Softimage XSI, Adobe's Mercury Engine performs better on Win7, etc). And I have software that works fine on both (Ableton Live, Bidule, Reaper, non-gpu accellerated Mac software, Maya 3D, etc).

As for AV, i still suggest people give Eset nod32 a look. Heuristics catch anything that tries to do 'funny stuff' and if you run with DEP enabled in bios, don't disable Win7's UAC completely (you can toggle between 3 security levels on the fly, only enable/disable requires reboot--so you can set to highest level when doing things that might be worrisome) and disable the AV if you're concerned about performance hit (I notice NO difference in anything outside of explorer operations personally)...

And to the OP, I still recommend giving ADK Audio, Rain etc a look. Someone speak up for the UK guys that I'm forgetting to represent here please...
Old 11th September 2011
  #21
The whole tpoic is a non-issue to me, unless you intend to use the DAW as an office machine as well. In that case, OSX does have an advantage.

I have a test system here which I constantly have connected to the net, no antivirus, firewall etc all down, and am in the internet with it daily, to download audio related installers. In the last 1.5 years that I do this, I NEVER had any issue with worms or viruses. It has about every PC DAW installed on it from the last 2 years, all plugins available, it is one big cocktail of audio stuff. And it keeps on running like a new born.

So leave the panic making to politicians and governments, and move on.

That being said, our customer workstations only get connected to the internet to download Windows updates (with network security active, of course).
Old 11th September 2011
  #22
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I agree, the *only* time I've ever had Nod32 give a warning was due to peple bringing USB devices into my workspace that were infected or due to someone bringing a really badly owned laptop (he did a lot of overseas 'poker' in his spare time and who knows what else) into my workspace and wanted to 'go online to check email'. Since he was still running XP and I was on Win7 it was unlikely that anything would have cross infected even without nod32, and I long ago disabled the autorun crap that usb worms use just because I don't need windows asking me what I want to do everytime I insert a usb key.

However since my wife has a netbook and people do occasionally come over with laptops and want on the network, what I've actually done is use my older router to create a subnet and make that 802.11g only, my primary router is the first connected to the net and offers dual band 802.11n only...so guests get the slow road and are isolated onto their own subnet with a netmask. Can't even see my primary network if they want to connect to anything. My wife's Nintendo Wii uses that network too since it's a G device and she mostly uses it for SD res Netflix streaming to a small tv in the bedroom.
Old 12th September 2011
  #23
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Hackintosh!

Sent from my HERO200 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 12th September 2011
  #24
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
The whole tpoic is a non-issue to me, unless you intend to use the DAW as an office machine as well. In that case, OSX does have an advantage.
That's simply not true. Windows machines use search technology from the '90s, with scheduled indexing. OS X uses a kernel based, metadata based search. That means, you can search for files by sample rate, bit depth, composer, number of audio channels, musical genre, tempo, time signature etc.
So you can create a smart folder that contains all 24bit 44k files created in the last 2 weeks, to name an example. This folder will update in real time once the next audio file is created.


The Finder has a feature named Quicklook. You do not have to open any app to preview audio files. You select a file and hit Spacebar to listen to it, hit down arrow to listen to the next one, etc.


Time Machine back up allows you to restore an audio project in the exact state that it was in 2 weeks ago, before you acidentally deleted some files.


When you use a Mac, you can use Mac-only audio software, and boot into Windows to use Windows-only audio software.


On OS X, you install an audio plug in once, and it's available for all audio apps.


You can use Spaces: virtual desktops. So you have your mixing board on one desktop (with open plug ins on the secondary monitor), and hit cmd-right arrow to move to the next desktop that has the track overview (and meters on the secondary monitor).


You can use Automator to easily create an automated workflow that on every Monday takes the content of the search folder mentioned above, converts the files to mp3s and ftp's them to a server on the web.




There are also things you don't have to do:
- defrag for better audio performance (OS X automatically defrags disks in the background)
- install antivirus software, keep it up to date and worry about the conflicts it causes
- mess with the Registry
- decide whether you need a 32 bit or 64 bit OS (OS X runs 32 bit and 64 bit apps transparently side by side. Logic runs 32 bit and 64 bit plug ins side by side)



Like I said above, you can not configure a PC to run like a Mac, because of fundamental technology differences.
Old 12th September 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post

There are also things you don't have to do:
- defrag for better audio performance (OS X automatically defrags disks in the background)
- install antivirus software, keep it up to date and worry about the conflicts it causes
- mess with the Registry
- decide whether you need a 32 bit or 64 bit OS (OS X runs 32 bit and 64 bit apps transparently side by side. Logic runs 32 bit and 64 bit plug ins side by side)
Let's debunk your Apple propaganda once again.

- Win 7 defrags automatically as per user schedule. Plenty of win applications available to defrag on the spot, even freeware.
- Win 7 is actually less vulnerable to attacks than OSX. Many antivirus programs can be easily turned off when you're not on the internet. Sorry, but this old albatross won't fly anymore.
- No one needs to "mess with the registry" in Win 7. But if you know what you're doing, it's actually an advantage over OSX.
- Win 7 x64 can run virtually every 32-bit application compatible with Vista/7. And FYI, Logic doesn't do a great job of bridging 32-bit plugs, in fact Sonar and Reaper (win version, the 64-bit OSX app is still in beta, guess why...) do a much better job. Not to mention that Jbridge (the best bridging app in the world, there isn't a single plug it couldn't bridge, even really old stuff) is only available for Windows.

LIST OF INTER-PLATFORM AUDIO APPLICATIONS FOUND TO WORK BETTER IN WIN 7 THAN OSX:

- Vienna Ensemble Pro
- Cubase and anything else from Steinberg
- Reaper (the 64-bit OSX version is still a beta)
- Anything from EastWest (Play etc.)
- Kontakt 4/5
Old 12th September 2011
  #26
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And I'll go even further than PaPi61 and take this on point by point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
That's simply not true.
And your post is also 'not true' since it's full of bias based on your obvious familiarity with one OS over another. Your comparisons seem as if they're to a Windows OS from a decade ago... to wit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Windows machines use search technology from the '90s, with scheduled indexing. OS X uses a kernel based, metadata based search. That means, you can search for files by sample rate, bit depth, composer, number of audio channels, musical genre, tempo, time signature etc.
So you can create a smart folder that contains all 24bit 44k files created in the last 2 weeks, to name an example. This folder will update in real time once the next audio file is created.
It might surprise you to know that Spotlight also builds an 'index', and it does it in the background via a process called 'mdworker', not via the kernel directly. Both Spotlight and Win7's index are able to be customized to search or ignore specific locations, file types and differentiate between character sets (so that words with diacritics can be differentiated for instance). Win7 can save searches, and while you can't create a Library out of them (Libraries are another useful Win7 tool), you can have searches appear as folders under Search and under Favorites, and they will update just as quickly under Win7's indexing service as they will under OSX with mdworker's indexing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
The Finder has a feature named Quicklook. You do not have to open any app to preview audio files. You select a file and hit Spacebar to listen to it, hit down arrow to listen to the next one, etc.
Under Win7 if you have file preview pane disabled by default you simply use Alt+P (or via GUI functions in explorer). The main advantage that OSX has here is quicklook is larger and supports more filetypes by default *after first install of the OS*. However when you install new Win7 applications they they register file viewing components along with their filetypes that enable previews. And for media files *any* codec available to the overall OS will allow preview of media files that aren't recognized by default as well (in fact Win7's codec expandability tends to be easier and wider than what Quicktime can do unless you use something like Perian which has its own issues). And while I'll admit that quicklook is easier for a casual user than Win7 preview, one thing I particularly DISLIKE about quicklook is that it often chokes (in short bursts) on playing back higher resolution videos and audio files that aren't at the native samplerate if there is another Core Audio app running at a different rate. So OSX is perhaps easier for an inexperienced user but has ups & downs for those that know their way around both OSes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Time Machine back up allows you to restore an audio project in the exact state that it was in 2 weeks ago, before you acidentally deleted some files.
And Windows has long had System Restore, which works much better in Vista/Win7 than it did under XP. There's also a native Windows 7 backup feature which can handle larger tasks....which you'd use Disk Utility for under OSX. OSX may be 'prettier' to use for a casual user but both are technically capable of similar things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
When you use a Mac, you can use Mac-only audio software, and boot into Windows to use Windows-only audio software.
There are multiple VM solutions for OSX, Windows, Linux, BSD & etc.... Microsoft places certain limits on what you can do with virtualization and their OSes (most limiting advanced features like multiple logins, running server versions of the OS and etc) but Apple loses here because they have historically restricted OSX from running under VM's without going through hoops (essentially making a hackintosh install to run under VMWare). So to the end user you might thing "well Apple makes it easy because we have Parallels and Boot Camp" but it's MS that's made using *their* OS easy for Apple users, and Apple that's made using OSX difficult for anyone else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
On OS X, you install an audio plug in once, and it's available for all audio apps.
This was the case with Window's DirectX plugins as well, however the market decided to follow Steinberg's example so long ago most people have forgotten that DirectX audio filters still exist today. They're mostly used by game developers and webcam/video conferencing software now... And while you might counter that Steinberg beat out Microsoft while Apple kept pace, this isn't actually true...since Apple essentially was countering Steinberg while MS just decided to let app developers do whatever they wanted to do. In use the main difference is that you learn what folder VST plugins are installed to on Windows...nothing more. They're available to all audio apps once you've figured that part out, though certain older apps that were compiled during the WinXP era may make it SEEM like you can only use then in one app at a time that's also not true with up to date software (just in case someone wants to mention that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
You can use Spaces: virtual desktops. So you have your mixing board on one desktop (with open plug ins on the secondary monitor), and hit cmd-right arrow to move to the next desktop that has the track overview (and meters on the secondary monitor).
Now here's a valid point, but the difference is mainly in that the functionality *exists* in Win7's subsystems but isn't exposed to the end user without a 3rd party app. Mostly because this was the domain of ATI/AMD Catalyst and Nvidia's NView in the past (ie, through the graphics drivers), and so under Win7 you can opt to use those, VirtuaWin, or a SysInternals app called Desktops. *All* of them simply hook into features that already exits in Win7 & Aero (like Spaces relies on Quartz 2D, Finder and Carbon under OSX). OSX does win here by having a native implementation to make it easy for new users....


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
You can use Automator to easily create an automated workflow that on every Monday takes the content of the search folder mentioned above, converts the files to mp3s and ftp's them to a server on the web.
Win7 has scheduled tasks...and has had them since NT 3.51 in the mid 90's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
There are also things you don't have to do:
- defrag for better audio performance (OS X automatically defrags disks in the background)
BOTH operating systems defrag automatically in the background, and Win7 actually wins here in several ways (for instance OSX ignores file clusters that are used in entirety for large files). However in actual use with NTFS under Win7 and HFS+ journalled under OSX, both are essentially the same to the end user in terms of performance impact. Both operating systems will also optimize frequently accessed files and applications and work to speed up boot times by moving things to the start of the disk or building datastores/caches that speed up the boot process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
- install antivirus software, keep it up to date and worry about the conflicts it causes
Well as DAW PLUS, myself and others have illustrated it's actually not necessary to use AV on windows either, and I'm unaware of any 'conflicts' that it causes if you choose your software wisely. Oh I might add that BOTH Microsoft and Apple have built in protections against very widespread malware, Win7's comes in a monthly app that executes after the Tuesday updates...while OSX gives you 'security updates' that have a list of files that you "shouldn't open" as well as a few security hotfixes against malware like MacDefender: Mac OS X Snow Leopard and malware detection. In fact one might also counter that after some of the issues MS had 10-15 years ago they're MUCH more transparent than Apple at security issues these days...meaning your confidence might actually just be a veil of 'security through obscurity'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
- mess with the Registry
No, but there are certainly times when you must learn to edit/remove plists, dig out Library preferences (confusingly under /Library, the /User/%username%/Library and System/Library), and potentially dig out files that are hidden from Finder by default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
- decide whether you need a 32 bit or 64 bit OS (OS X runs 32 bit and 64 bit apps transparently side by side. Logic runs 32 bit and 64 bit plug ins side by side)
And with Win7 64bit you can still run 32bit and 64bit apps... and Logic runs 32bit apps in a 'bit bridge' when in 64bit mode, just like Jbridge, Reaper's X64 Bridge, Steinberg's VST Bridge, Sonar's BitBridge 2.0.... each comes with the app you'll be running it with just like Logic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Like I said above, you can not configure a PC to run like a Mac, because of fundamental technology differences.
Maybe that's the case for you, but again I suggest it's your FAMILIARITY with a given technology, not the tech itself. There's nothing wrong with personal preference, being a fan of a given platform and so on... but don't confuse your preference for a Belief System that needs to be defended as a gnostic truth
Old 12th September 2011
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Let's debunk your Apple propaganda once again.

- Plenty of win applications available to defrag automatically, even freeware.
Exactly, you have to search for defrag apps, install them, and configure them, instead of having the OS take care of it. The point was, on OS X you don't have to do anything. You don't have to babysit the OS to keep the performance in shape for audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
- Win 7 is actually less vulnerable to attacks than OSX. Many antivirus programs can be easily turned off when you're not on the internet. Sorry, but this old albatross won't fly anymore.
Not sure which part of "you don't have to run any antivirus software on OS X" is so hard to understand.
- you can have a Mac connected to the internet without having antivirus SW installed, because there are no viruses, and about 3 Trojans (that require severe user stupidity to get installed)
- whenever you run antivirus software, there is a perfomance impact. There is no way around that.
- even considering to have a computer and not connect it to the internet is bizarre.
- to test which OS is more secure: take either OS out of the box, clean install it, without installing additional antivirus software, antispyware etc., and connect the computer to the internet.
You may also want to read up on process based sandboxing in Lion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
- Win 7 x64 can run virtually every 32-bit application compatible with Vista/7. And FYI, Logic doesn't do a great job of bridging 32-bit plugs, in fact Sonar and Reaper do a much better job. Not to mention that Jbridge (the best bridging app in the world, there isn't a single plug it couldn't bridge, even really old stuff) is only available for Windows.

There are 2 versions of Windows, 32 bit and 64 bit. There is one version of OS X, that runs all OS X apps, 32 bit or 64 bit. This is a fundamental difference in technology. Mac users were transparently migrated from a 32 bit OS to a 64 bit OS over the last few years without ever noticing.. The average computer user (musician) should not have to even think about 32 bit or 64 bit, or have to learn about it to decide which OS to purchase.
The vast majority of computer users are non-technical. Good technology supports them in what they want to achieve, instead of forcing them to read up on things that are completely irrelevant for the task at hand.
Old 12th September 2011
  #28
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Exactly, you have to search for defrag apps, install them, and configure them, instead of having the OS take care of it. The point was, on OS X you don't have to do anything. You don't have to babysit the OS to keep the performance in shape for audio.
Nope, as I pointed out above Win7 will automatically defrag in the background during idle time. In fact ALL WinNT versions (NT 3.51, NT4, WinXP, Server2003, Vista, Server2008 & Win7) have 100% "built in" defragmenting, the apps that end users install simply give *access* to features that already exist or unlock additional functionality that already exists (like defragmenting the pagefile). As of Win7 these artificial restrictions are gone anyway, ie Win7 will *automatically defragment multiple volumes at once, in the background, optimize the page file and startup processes along with frequently accessed files. OSX does this too as of 10.6 & 10.7...


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Not sure which part of "you don't have to run any antivirus software on OS X" is so hard to understand.
- you can have a Mac connected to the internet without having antivirus SW installed, because there are no viruses, and about 3 Trojans (that require severe user stupidity to get installed)
- whenever you run antivirus software, there is a perfomance impact. There is no way around that.
- even considering to have a computer and not connect it to the internet is bizarre.
- to test which OS is more secure: take either OS out of the box, clean install it, without installing additional antivirus software, antispyware etc., and connect the computer to the internet.
You may also want to read up on process based sandboxing in Lion.
Again not true, while Apple still denies most of the ones that exist I gave a clear link above to a page on the Apple website that alludes to several and lists Mac Defender specifically. Also as for performance impact, I think you're not familiar with how AV software works these days. My track counts are no different with Eset Nod32 enabled than with it disabled, because the app isn't stupid enough to worry about what my DAW app is doing to the files it accesses. Instead it monitors web browsing, new file downloads, and new file installations as well as files that have had their file checksum or file date change since the last time they were run (Specifically applications and the binaries they load). And while under a Pentium III the impact of nod32 may have been around 2-3%...it's less than .01% when not doing file explorer operations like deleting a file.

Win7 connected to the internet as it is by default is no more or less vulnerable than OSX, I think again you're thinking of WinXP which had several serious subsystems directly exposed. RPC exploits that happen automatically are a thing of the past, and most people use a router + NAT/Firewall these days anyway which is enough to stop these simple tasks even with a directly exposed 12 year old XP installed and completely unpatched (ie, who installs WinXP without any service packs and connects directly to your cable modem anyway?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
There are 2 versions of Windows, 32 bit and 64 bit. There is one version of OS X, that runs all OS X apps, 32 bit or 64 bit. This is a fundamental difference in technology. Mac users were transparently migrated from a 32 bit OS to a 64 bit OS over the last few years without ever noticing.. The average computer user (musician) should not have to even think about 32 bit or 64 bit, or have to learn about it to decide which OS to purchase.
The vast majority of computer users are non-technical. Good technology supports them in what they want to achieve, instead of forcing them to read up on things that are completely irrelevant for the task at hand.
I ran a version of 64bit Windows (Xp64) LONG before there was any end-user 64bit'ness' in OSX. And while some people who use OSX might be aware of things like PAE addressing (enabling larger addressing space), maybe they're not aware that this also exists in Windows (though Sp2 & sp3 for WinXP artificially limited this for casual users due to people trying to use WIn98/95 era hardware). Vista was fully 64bit while 10.5/Leopard was still transitional....and in fact Snow Leopard is *still* transitional with fundamental parts of the OS (like Quicktime) not fully 64bit on a fresh install. Try running Logic under even 10.6.8 in 64bit mode and look for the export movie function....Quicktime made it to 64bit finally but it's not 100% across all Apple's apps even still.

Now you might think you have a foot to stand on when it comes to 'transparent' and 'seamless transition', but running Win7 64bit is this point for Windows users and it's why many people who use WIndows stayed with XP until Win7 debuted. Any 32bit apps that don't work under Win7 are just as old as MacOS 7/8/9 apps that don't run under 10.7, or under 10.6 unless you manually installed Rosetta. Something you'd have to read up on if you tried to run something like an old version of Recycle that worked with your aging Emu sampler...
Old 12th September 2011
  #29
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post


It might surprise you to know that Spotlight also builds an 'index', and it does it in the background via a process called 'mdworker', not via the kernel directly. Both Spotlight and Win7's index are able to be customized to search or ignore specific locations, file types and differentiate between character sets (so that words with diacritics can be differentiated for instance). Win7 can save searches, and while you can't create a Library out of them (Libraries are another useful Win7 tool), you can have searches appear as folders under Search and under Favorites, and they will update just as quickly under Win7's indexing service as they will under OSX with mdworker's indexing.
???
Of course OS X builds a search index. I wrote that it does not use scheduled indexing, which is tech from the 90s. You can try it yourself: create a smart folder that searches for the term 'music', file type pdf, created today. Open the smart folder. Now open Text Edit, create a new document, type music, and save it as a .pdf. As soon as you save, you see the document appear in the window of the smart folder. You do not have to wait for the next scheduled indexing. I also wrote about metadata based search (bit depth, composer etc as search criteria). This depends on how the file system handles metadata, and how the search engine interacts with it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post


And Windows has long had System Restore, which works much better in Vista/Win7 than it did under XP. There's also a native Windows 7 backup feature which can handle larger tasks....which you'd use Disk Utility for under OSX. OSX may be 'prettier' to use for a casual user but both are technically capable of similar things.
Are you saying that System Restore, or any other feature of the OS, can go back 2 weeks, restore only 1 audio project, then go back 3 weeks, and restore the 3 week old version of the same audio project in addition to the other version?

Disk Utility is good for clones, not for any regular backup.
The point of Time Machine is that you plug in an external disk once, click 'yes' and forget about it. You will always have a current back up. How many users realistically have the discipline to back up on a regular basis?







Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Win7 has scheduled tasks...and has had them since NT 3.51 in the mid 90's.
???
What does Automator have to do with scheduled tasks? Automator is a tool that allows average users to build automated scripts, it's an easy to use GUI scripting tool. A scheduled task is just one example of what you can create. You can create droplets (that resize all images that you drop on them etc) or contextual menu items (e.g. right click on a file to compress, rename and upload via ftp, in one step)





Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Well as DAW PLUS, myself and others have illustrated it's actually not necessary to use AV on windows either, and I'm unaware of any 'conflicts' that it causes if you choose your software wisely.
Are you saying that, realistically, there are PC users who do not run antivirus software? Disconnecting a PC from the internet is not a way to achieve security, viruses can be transferred in other ways (USB sticks etc.).
Old 12th September 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Em, this thread is a bit ridiculous imho.

PCs and macs hardware wise are virtually identical these days.
Same intel chips, same memory types, same hdd types ...the hardware differences are nearly completely eradicated.
They both use Intel based architectures, so the differences are minute...

So the issue isn't PC vs Mac, its osx vs win7 which is a different argument altogether. If you are using Logic or Protools performance wise the mac has the edge. Any other daw use windows for optimal performance.

This said, the performance benefits of either platform will be hard to take advantage of, ie, you will need to be doing some serious DSP work to notice this "edge".

Security is an issue to which the mac is less prone, but with win7 unless you are sussing out
/ downloading dodgy stuff, then you should be fine. Get a copy of avg free and your good.

Or, if you really want, do as I do and buy a copy of win7 for about €100 and dual boot it on your mac. Best if both worlds without any performance issues...
Mac allows for osx and win7. PC only is windows 7....BUT remember you need to pay the "apple tax" for this luxury.

In conclusion, if you have the cash and aren't sure what one to get, buy a mac and allow yourself the option of both. If you 100% KNOW you will be using (for example) cubase only as your daw, get a pc.

Best of luck!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Gearslutz.com App
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