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How Do I Setup/Configure a PC to Run Like a Mac
Old 18th September 2011
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
theblue1, I wasn't necessarily singling you out for any specific claims about Windows. Rather that all the names I was mentioning (including mine) keep partaking in page after page of discussion about the endless religious/belief system based discussion of which is 'better' rather than what the thread initially asked. I think on reading your posts closely you'll find that you are squarely in that camp, though I do not exclude myself from that either. heh

However I also suggested that (were I say a mod) a quick glance at other recent posts by the people still partaking in this thread may reveal other things, like who has the ability to contribute to Gearslutz beyond this particular (never ending) Mac vs. PC holy..."discussion". I only singled out a single example there because that particular..poster...has been continually dragging this thread on, each post is a poke at the embers to stoke things back to life.

I think we (who are experienced with using Mac & PC) could probably shared more exactly HOW we go about securing and customizing our "PC", maybe we could have asked the OP to even clarify in what ways he'd have liked to have a "PC" "Run like a Mac" so that this thread wasn't quite such a gaping hole for the outgaassing of B.S. (belief systems). Instead we have a Cupertino bridge dweller leading the pack out back onto the merry go round everytime we seem to get tired on the playground... but you'll note my complete lack of surprise as I post the same words yet again myself, in this endless spinning wheel of Karma we call our tiny GS universe
heh

Oh, I wasn't mad or anything. I just don't want people thinking that I think Windows is invulnerable, because I certainly don't.

I just typically respond to something that someone addresses to me or writes in response to something I've said, unless I agree with what they're saying. I came from a sociocultural milieu where friends sat around endlessly arguing about everything from existentialism to the best place to get fish tacos...
Old 18th September 2011
  #152
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valis's Avatar
Oh I didn't think you were mad, but a chance for response begs a chance to play with clarity even more, no?

While you weren't wanting people to think Windows was invulnerable, I would go one further and suggest that no operating system is invulnerable, unless perhaps you're going to lock it in a room by itself and allow no interaction with it and the outside world. While Microsoft has (as anyone will admit) taken their lumps in the market and at the hands of mischief and profit motivated malware alike, at least in our current era they and the GNU/GPL community issue advisories and follow up with publicly visible responses (patches). Apple on the other hand issues terse memos to their Geniuses to deny all evidence of MacDefender for days at a time. And Apple has *several times* sued publishers over the years many of the better articles about 'new' Mac exploits and vulnerabilities that were being exploited by things we'd call worms and viruses on the PC. There are two cases in particular that should pop right to the top of google, one that even resulted in a publisher issueing a retraction and dropping an author. I suppose since there's now no record of the Apple issues, just the 'corrections' and workplace shifts...then Apple must have been in the right.

Or what about the CD-based Autoload style issues in 2001/2002 on Mac that resulted in OSX no longer 'autoloading' by default...it took usb devices a few years longer to get the same result on the windows side iirc (which was exploited first then?)

Or how about another example..where Apple took a week longer to revoke Safari's certification of DigiNotar's false SSL certificates for major banks and sites than MS (for IE), Firefox or Google (Chrome) did. No malware required, and in Apple we trust?

See I was still using IRIX and WinNT 4 when Jobs returned from NeXT to 'save' Apple with OSX. And I recall the upsides & downsides of what NeXT tried to do with their OS as well...all of which OSX inherits (the biggest issue being the mach kernel itself in a multithreaded environment, but that's been addressed somewhat finally with libdispatch/Grand Central Dispatch).

The point is that some users of a certain platform seem to think that disrupting your email and messing with your address book to create 'zombies' is the main goal for malware authors. The Mac vs. PC videos that were so humorous a few years ago come closer to the mark imo, the PC and Lotus 123 made inroads into the accounting department at a time when the Apple IIe was doing its part to popularize itself to similar crowds. Apple survived via educational and home hackerly types, PC's via those boring beancounters...who for a while now have made a very lucrative target for the malware authors. So while little sis & soccer mom may get targeted by the same sort of people that seem to think we live in envy of size and require Cialis ad spamium...the real lucrative targets out there are not DAW users but business and personal finance users.

Ie. while 'Zombies' may allow you to rent out a few thousand soccer mom PCs for small profit, a single exploited machine in the hands of someone with lax security and a healthy bank account or two can result in even more of a windfall from that singular exploit alone. While some try to farm CC & banking info on a mass scale, the smarter (presumably overseas) individuals who indulge in this sort of behavior often don't even touch any financials anywhere, they simply contact the person or small business owner and let them know how exposed they are and ask for a small.."settlement fee". It's unclear how often this occurs as well, because what business owner wants to contact anyone and let them know they've been compromised rather than simply making the issue go away and changing all your access codes? But I say smarter because it's more likely that harvesting a few thousand CC #'s or a tend thousand zombie pc's will get you researched and potentially caught, versus doing half a dozen successful targeted exploits that reap a similar payout. I don't say smarter because I advocate doing any of the above nor cooperating with it by ignoring basic security practices on any OS or computer. The NSA agrees...

So ANY computer user of ANY platform who thinks that their brand loyalty alone is somehow protection from this...well 'security through obscurity' is pretty easy to google and read up the pitfalls thereon.
Old 18th September 2011
  #153
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
iOS is closed source, Android tried to build a reputation to be more 'open', but arguably has failed to do so.
Nothing is "closed" source in a cut throat environment. Large Companies learned years ago that flexibility is the only Sustainability. iOS has design features borrowed from OSX and vice versa which have been borrowing design ideas from the Open Source community for Years.

Android is run on more handheld devices (variety) than any other OS currently. That is failure? Google owns Android and now Motorola... do you think they would not continue to offer Android to other OEMs ? RIM is experiencing the ramifications of being alil too cautious and "closed" sourced.

Last edited by tuRnitUpsuM; 18th September 2011 at 08:03 AM.. Reason: included a ramble because its my nature
Old 18th September 2011
  #154
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnish View Post
Triple boot here, Lion/Ubuntu/Win7. If ubuntu could do that audio-stuff properly (running Reaper as my main DAW) + support audio interfaces we would have a truly winner here
Have you tried running Reaper under WINE?
The most ideal situation of course would be a native binary package (.deb .rpm etc) for the Linux environment much like Mixbus.
Is understandable why Cockos focuses on Win/Osx, its where the majority of their customer base is most comfortable.

Support comes with Adoption. Its at the very best its ever been though (Open Source) support wise. Only to get even better.

cheers
Old 18th September 2011
  #155
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
Nothing is "closed" source in a cut throat environment. Large Companies learned years ago that flexibility is the only Sustainability. iOS has design features borrowed from OSX and vice versa which have been borrowing design ideas from the Open Source community for Years.
Not to mention that iOS shares the *same* BSD/Darwin underpinnings as OSX, which is decidedly Open Source and even Free Software Foundation approved (under the APSL licensed "free software" based Darwin which itself is based on GNU-licensed BSD). OSX and iOS are a series of API's and that lie on TOP of Darwin, basically.

Interestingly enough even Windows NT up through WinXP 'supposedly' had a TCP/IP implementation that was based on MS written 'winsock' code, the original NT code before NT 3.51 (which came out on the mid 90's) was based on a company called Spider's product called STREAMS, which was originally ported from...BSD. Several of the tcp/ip applications provided (ftp, rch, rsh and etc) are perhaps even direct ports from BSD. Supposedly STREAMS was 'wrapped' to provide initial winsock API work the leverage it needed to get up and running, and so by the era of Win98/ME/NT4/XP there shouldn't have been any BSD code left directly in the TCP/IP stack, but there are some who muse that may or may not be 100% correct: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/6/19/05641/7357

Again this is interesting because it illustrates how our technologies evolve from similar foundations and often share similar (if not the same) inspiration for their specifix implementations. The other example I gave earlier being the most obvious, Xerox/PARC and their GUI spawning both MacOS and Windows.
Old 18th September 2011
  #156
Deleted User #106149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihavezippers View Post
Also another concern I have is Internet/viruses. I have heard PC owners on studio machines say to never even plug in that PC to the internet for fear of spyware/viruses/etc clogging up your system. Many of the VSTis I am interested in purchasing in the near future are available only by direct download, from the manufacturer's sites and other less trustworthy third-party sites. Any thoughts on this? Anti-virus programs seem to put a drain on your PC comparable to a virus anyways, so I'd prefer to avoid those.
Jeeeez. Please reread my last post... Yes virus' exist but you have to be a right donut to catch one or your just asking for it by downloading torrents/porn. If you want to do that use another computer or external hd.


A bit of common sense when surfing is all that's required.


Re an AntiVirus, Windows 7s should be sufficient, but you could also download 'Malware bytes' which is completely free and is by far the best virus software you will find. It's also very lightweight and won't SAP resources like your avgs and kasperkys. STEER CLEAR OF THEM. Waste of money and memory.


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Old 18th September 2011
  #157
Deleted User #106149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelead View Post
The reason why macs work better is simple: they use high quality parts.
Hope that helps.
Lolol So ignorant its hard to believe.



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Old 18th September 2011
  #158
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcb123 View Post
Jeeeez. Please reread my last post...
Why are you responding with this tone? The OP is just asking questions and anyway, he/she wrote that a full 8 days before your last post. The only person deserving a "Jeeeez" here is you.

Alistair
Old 18th September 2011
  #159
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Surbitone's Avatar
Just get a Debian partition for porn and just use windows without networking enabled. All joking aside, I use Windows XP & 7 with absolutely no problems at all, and just use Debian on a separate partition for multimedia and internet use. I have Wine installed for any creature comforts that I need.

People really should stop losing sleep over the Mac / Windows debate (not aimed at the OP), it is really quite sad and juvenile.
Old 18th September 2011
  #160
Deleted User #106149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Why are you responding with this tone? The OP is just asking questions and anyway, he/she wrote that a full 8 days before your last post. The only person deserving a "Jeeeez" here is you.

Alistair
Yeah sorry posts are showing up in reverse for some reason :(



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Old 19th September 2011
  #161
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Not to mention that iOS shares the *same* BSD/Darwin underpinnings as OSX, which is decidedly Open Source and even Free Software Foundation approved (under the APSL licensed "free software" based Darwin which itself is based on GNU-licensed BSD). OSX and iOS are a series of API's and that lie on TOP of Darwin, basically.

Interestingly enough even Windows NT up through WinXP 'supposedly' had a TCP/IP implementation that was based on MS written 'winsock' code, the original NT code before NT 3.51 (which came out on the mid 90's) was based on a company called Spider's product called STREAMS, which was originally ported from...BSD. Several of the tcp/ip applications provided (ftp, rch, rsh and etc) are perhaps even direct ports from BSD. Supposedly STREAMS was 'wrapped' to provide initial winsock API work the leverage it needed to get up and running, and so by the era of Win98/ME/NT4/XP there shouldn't have been any BSD code left directly in the TCP/IP stack, but there are some who muse that may or may not be 100% correct: Microsoft, TCP/IP, Open Source, and Licensing || kuro5hin.org

Again this is interesting because it illustrates how our technologies evolve from similar foundations and often share similar (if not the same) inspiration for their specifix implementations. The other example I gave earlier being the most obvious, Xerox/PARC and their GUI spawning both MacOS and Windows.
Absolutely, its the ol' adage of "why reinvent the wheel". If something is working, use it. I was just going for a laymans explanation. Thats basically what OS X is ... a modified BSD base (Darwin - Mach Kernel.. still supported just not maintained) with proprietary APIs. Of course Apple has spent a great deal of time molding it into something they call their own.

Open Source - Releases

Microsoft no different. Although they have/had the manpower to deviate from "borrowed" ideas and implement changes structurally to the source code to suit their needs.Or design something similar that behaved the same way. Its been a very long outstanding perk of being the worlds largest software distributer. Amalgamation of smaller companies, simply for the interest of technology holdings has been their way of life for the better part of 3 decades. This goes for all large companies.. past 5 years so very much so. Nortel comes to mind. Billions on technologies they "may" use one day.

Always have found these sorts of things very interesting myself too. Never know where things will head, if you are not aware of where they come from.

cheers.
Old 19th September 2011
  #162
Gear Maniac
 

Strange thread.
Around me no one is even considering windows to make music. It's as if windows doesn't even exist. It's fine, once the software is running and you haven't crashed yet, but the stability is horrendous and the rainbow land interface including the preference plane with 150 icons where everything is totally disorganized. I guess the debate is really about if your willing to pay more for a better interface that will not throw some some random unexpected and useless warning at you every 30 minutes.

Last time I saw an installation of windows it was on a huge 50000$ tv subtitle-machine and worked on a single dedicated software. And it was still buggy.

Anyway for me windows = bad memories from the early 2000s.
Specially when it just refused to reboot after I installed a new printer and I lost all my stuff forever. Then it was "never windows again", and I haven't had any serious problems since.
Old 19th September 2011
  #163
IF installing a printer caused you to "lose your stuff forever", then perhaps you should be using neither pc or mac....


Just sayin...heh
Old 19th September 2011
  #164
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Finnish's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
Anyway for me windows = bad memories from the early 2000s.Specially when it just refused to reboot after I installed a new printer and I lost all my stuff forever. Then it was "never windows again", and I haven't had any serious problems since.
That's just BS... Well, you may want to make a full backup after clean install. After that go on and make your system as multimedia-possible as it is possible.. Still, going with 100% audio-system is your best bet. Win7 is kinda winner nowadays, but it's still purely audio oriented in my setup. And things just work. Go figure.
Old 19th September 2011
  #165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
Strange thread.
Around me no one is even considering windows to make music. It's as if windows doesn't even exist. It's fine, once the software is running and you haven't crashed yet, but the stability is horrendous and the rainbow land interface including the preference plane with 150 icons where everything is totally disorganized. I guess the debate is really about if your willing to pay more for a better interface that will not throw some some random unexpected and useless warning at you every 30 minutes.
Windows has come a long way since the early 2000s. Maybe you should as well.
Old 20th September 2011
  #166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
Strange thread.
Around me no one is even considering windows to make music. It's as if windows doesn't even exist. It's fine, once the software is running and you haven't crashed yet, but the stability is horrendous and the rainbow land interface including the preference plane with 150 icons where everything is totally disorganized. I guess the debate is really about if your willing to pay more for a better interface that will not throw some some random unexpected and useless warning at you every 30 minutes.

Last time I saw an installation of windows it was on a huge 50000$ tv subtitle-machine and worked on a single dedicated software. And it was still buggy.

Anyway for me windows = bad memories from the early 2000s.
Specially when it just refused to reboot after I installed a new printer and I lost all my stuff forever. Then it was "never windows again", and I haven't had any serious problems since.
Wild story. Or stories.

I daresay if most folks had had your luck with Windows, MS would be a footnote in the history books.

I know I would never use a platform that had served me as poorly as you say Windows served you.

That said, I certainly did have a number of stability headaches in the early 90s with Win 3.0 and Win 3.1. Or I thought I did.

Turned out, it was the bios of the very expensive '386 I'd bought in 1988 that didn't like Windows' memory management.

When, not long before switching to the new Win 95, I switched to a Frankensteined '486 with the same, relatively tiny 4 MB of RAM as my '386 -- a move that cost me only 1/10th the cost of the '386 (I already the monitor), my stability problems were hugely diminished.

And, a few years later when I built a new machine and switched to Win 98, I was pleased to be able to go 4 months without a system crash. To be sure, that's not really bragging territory these days, but in the waning days of the 90s, that was something, I thought.

But what really brought stability was doubling up my RAM (to a whopping 256 MB heh ) and installing XP. I literally went years without a system crash, although balky hardware hung the system a couple times. When I finally got a BSOD after maybe 4 years or more -- which was, indeed, hardware related -- I was shocked.

XP has been pretty much everything I look for in an OS, at least within the bounds of 32 bit systems. Sure, there are things I would change, a few things that drive me nuts -- mostly related to MS's obsession with backward compatibility going back to the 80s, stuff like some core system windows that aren't resizable. I mean, c'mon. A small, non-resizable window with vital information you have to scroll to see? WTF? Now that's just plain nuts. Er... but there are only a few of those, and they're presumably just there for backwards compatibility.

And, after all, that backwards compatibility is something I count on nearly every day.

One of my key productivity tools is the Ecco Pro outliner/personal organizer that came out in the early days of Windows 3.x and has been orphaned for over a decade. It's been kept alive -- and seriously extended -- by a cadre of people who just can't imagine computing without it. And, for sure, while I went more than a few years without it, when I realized it was available as a sort of de facto open source program, it once again became an integral part of my work flow. (Honest to gosh, I do not understand why everyone doesn't use outliners. They are one of the best organizational tools ever. I use mine for everything from project development and tracking to keeping track of new music and artists.)
Old 21st September 2011
  #167
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Problems arise when some people believe the tool is actually an object of worship, and anyone who uses a different type is a misguided individual (as an atheist, that's exactly what I get from the uber-Christians...)
Like when you worship pc?

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Old 21st September 2011
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
Like when you worship pc?

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I don't worship the PC (and if you knew something about computers, you'd know that the mac is in fact a PC), to me it's just a tool. And if tomorrow Linux will offer me a better alternative than Windows, then I'll switch to that. Remember, I'm a former mac user, but one who never belonged to the church and never worshiped a machine.
Old 21st September 2011
  #169
Here for the gear
 

Just take care of your PC or MAC.

If you are building a "Windows Based System" for professional use, don't go into it with the mindset of building a "cheap(er)" computer than a MAC. Go into it with the mindset of building a fine machine with quality parts without paying for the Apple brand if you want to try to get a bit more for your money.

I think Windows Based Systems have gotten a bad rap because it has turned into "building a Windows PC for cheap!". Building a Windows computer doesn't automatically make it cheaper than buying one or a MAC. It just means you have control over the quality and expandability of parts you put in it.

If you have $2000 to spend on a computer for instance and you limit yourself to building a "cheaper" PC with $500 thinking you're saving $1500 of money, you may just end up with a very cheaply made $500 PC. But if you have $2000 and make use of that $2000 to build a QUALITY Windows OS machine, you may get a bit more for your money than spending $2000 on a MAC.

When I say take care of your PC, build it and treat it as it's your prized, professional machine. Don't load it up with junk. Building vs buying a WINPC allows you to avoid manufactures from loading a bunch of junk on your OS. Buy enough hard drive space so that your root/OS drive isn't filled with only 800MB remaining on disk where it can bog down, get enough fast memory, get a motherboard that you can expand on in the future, don't overclock for the sake of overclocking (stability and flow is more important than a few split seconds of extra speed at the risk of unstable use), get a solid case than can take a hit without the gimmicky see through fiber glass and lights, etc. Make sure the computer is focused on music and loaded with the software you need. If you can avoid it, don't let it also double as the "home" computer for many other things. Save personal stuff on separate internal or external drives vs sharing your plugins/virtual instruments drives with personal docs and downloads.

I come from the gamer world, so I understand the desire to build a "budget PC" to handle what you want and the things that make it look cool (lights, overclocking, etc). But I also come from the graphic design and composing world where stability and solid/quality build is most important.

Build for quality and expandability. You can get quality and stability from both a MAC OS and a WIN OS machine. You just have to take care of whatever you buy or build.
Old 21st September 2011
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantT316 View Post
Just take care of your PC or MAC.

If you are building a "Windows Based System" for professional use, don't go into it with the mindset of building a "cheap(er)" computer than a MAC. Go into it with the mindset of building a fine machine with quality parts without paying for the Apple brand if you want to try to get a bit more for your money.
That's exactly my philosophy. Plus my machines are custom-tailored to my specific needs, and that's also very important to me.

Quote:
But if you have $2000 and make use of that $2000 to build a QUALITY Windows OS machine, you may get a bit more for your money than spending $2000 on a MAC.
It's an understatement, in fact you can get considerably more than a mac, even after selecting the best components. In the end, the only difference between your machine and a mac will be the OS. But once you launch Cubase or Kontakt, you will no longer see any difference, except for the fact that both these software titles actually work marginally better in Win 7.
Old 21st September 2011
  #171
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
That's exactly my philosophy. Plus my machines are custom-tailored to my specific needs, and that's also very important to me.

It's an understatement, in fact you can get considerably more than a mac, even after selecting the best components. In the end, the only difference between your machine and a mac will be the OS. But once you launch Cubase or Kontakt, you will no longer see any difference, except for the fact that both these software titles actually work marginally better in Win 7.
Yeah the big issue with comparisons is that Apple is very streamlined with their products (phones, MP3 players and computers). It's like there are 10 Windows based PCs of varying levels of quality to every top notch MAC PC or 20 Android phones (some good, many bad) to every top notch iPhone model. That leaves room to see fault in the cheap Windows based PCs which are sold to consumers compared to the expensive Apples. And consumers don't realize that there are powerful Windows PCs out there that you won't find in Best Buy or your local mall.

So when that local guy says "Oh I can build you a computer just as good as a MAC for $500". People should ask him to list you the parts he's going to use and explain why they compare to the top notch machines out there.

Many times consumers don't realize they're comparing a $499 Walmart HP, AMD Athlon X2 dual core, 2GB RAM w/ monitor package loaded with bloatware to a $3000 MacPro. When they should be comparing that $3000 MacPro to a more for your money $2500 PC with quality components to spec.
Old 21st September 2011
  #172
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valis's Avatar
Not necessarily disagreeing with you Tyrant, just some further clarification:

Honestly most people that talk about 'building a $500 PC' and compare that to a Mac are talking about building it themselves, and comparing that to a machine that comes with 1 year Applecare and has no matching model from Apple anyway (Apple has NO minitower option, just the 'executive class' model of the iMac--which dell & hp have--the Workstation class Mac Pros and the htpc class Mac Mini). The only comparable "Mac" (using the term loosely) to compare to a self build Win7 PC is a Hack, and that's still a decidedly grey area not just in terms of TOS issues (in the US) but also in terms of support/updates/troubleshooting.

Loosely translated, I can build an HTPC or Workstation class machine and load it with Win7 or make it a hack, but I cannot build an executive class "all in one" machine to run either Windows or 'hacked' OSX on.... Yet you can still compare an iMac to either the Dell Inspiron One or an HP Omni 220 series All In One. Point being is that many people compare the iMac or Mac Mini to what they'd build themselves, and they're not 100% comparable in terms of form factor/components nor in terms of building a machine yourself vs. buying a prebuild with some sort of 'global' warranty on components (where you don't have to do RMA on individual parts) and 1 year service contract.

As for Mac Pro, I've built Xeons and bought Mac Pros, and while I can build more for less you can't necessarily BUY a prebuild Xeon workstation from Dell or HP for much less. So again people are comparing something they'd build, service and essentially warranty themselves to something already built, serviced and warrantied from Apple or a 3rd party vendor.
Old 21st September 2011
  #173
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
As for Mac Pro, I've built Xeons and bought Mac Pros, and while I can build more for less you can't necessarily BUY a prebuild Xeon workstation from Dell or HP for much less. So again people are comparing something they'd build, service and essentially warranty themselves to something already built, serviced and warrantied from Apple or a 3rd party vendor.
Exactly. A MacPro is a competitive proposition at the beginning of its lifecycle, compared to identical/similar offerings from HP/Lenovo/Dell. However, the competition continually adjusts prices to reflect cost drops of parts, something Apple never does. That makes the MacPro overpriced towards the end of its lifecycle.
Old 21st September 2011
  #174
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stratology's Avatar
 

Apple is selling portables, Mac minis, iMacs and Mac Pros. You cannot build anything like a Mac mini, iMac or a portable Mac. As a home builder, you cannot build unibody cases, you cannot build a machine as small as a Macbook Air or Mac mini, you cannot build the computer into the back of a display. You cannot use hard disks or SSD that have your own custom firmware to optimize performance. You cannot re-write the OS you use to make it work closely with the fans, as it cannot know the exact specs of generic fans, or the exact location of the temparature sensors. You cannot build internal or external glass multitouch trackpads. You cannot build a backlit keyboard, that adjusts brighness according to the surrounding light.

You can build a machine that has similar specs on paper, if you tunnel vision into CPU speed, HD capacity etc. The similarity ends when you come back to the real world.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #175
Lives for gear
 

I'm scared to post saying ive never had problems with my windows 7 based PC cause it feels like knocking on wood sorta. But mine has been very solid. I'm sure a Mac in my hands would be too.

IME I've seen windows 7 get a lot sleeker and easier to use in terms of UI, general OS housekeeping tasks, installing new software / drivers, etc. I've felt fine working on Mac machines before also. My studio has a Win7 PC. Imho if you're an independent engineer, its probably beneficial for you to feel at least comfortable working in both, in case you're asked to do a session at a studio that uses a Mac. I think most engineers can probably do this, (don't want to make a "no s***" statement).

I know that around a year ago I was seeing prebuilt, core2quad Cpu windows 7 machines, from HP and the like, with 8 gigs of ram, for about 7 bills. This is a really good deal for that kind of cash. (I think). If you weren't running a lot of virtual instruments you could definitely have a high track count and lotsa VSTs.

I know that's def not the perfect machine, but I suppose I just agree about price point. Alot of what you're paying for is the brand, but it seems like Mac users are fairly open to this interpretation of late. There's a look and feel and community to Apple and to an extent you pay for that brand (we all agree on this right? [Probably not I guess...])

As far as Internet access goes, I generally like having a smaller laptop around for Internet or other non-audio related tasks while recording. I think I would do the same thing if I was working on a Mac. For some reason, insofar as workflow, etc. I like the idea of the audio PC being dedicated to that; keeps me focused (personally) on that task.

I can go to the coffee table and peek at the laptop quick if I need to.

P.S. thanks alot to undertow and theblue for being very awesome contributors to this forum. Ive read a lot of very useful posts from them over the last couple months.

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Old 22nd September 2011
  #176
Lives for gear
 

P.P.S.

Also, as far as looks of the physical machine / tower, I personally don't like to keep mine visible. The only things I / the client sees, are the keyboard trackball and monitor. If they were to go look at the tower its simply solid black.

Sorry if that's off topic but it seems like the inability to make a machine that looks like a Mac (with everything built into the monitor etc.) is an important point, but I would make the argument that I would want anything that can be out of sight to be that way, which is possible with a PC tower in a studio environment.

--Adam

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Old 22nd September 2011
  #177
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosleepPDX View Post
P.P.S.

Also, as far as looks of the physical machine / tower, I personally don't like to keep mine visible. The only things I / the client sees, are the keyboard trackball and monitor. If they were to go look at the tower its simply solid black.

Sorry if that's off topic but it seems like the inability to make a machine that looks like a Mac (with everything built into the monitor etc.) is an important point, but I would make the argument that I would want anything that can be out of sight to be that way, which is possible with a PC tower in a studio environment.

--Adam

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You can't see my 2008 Win7 8 core Xeon case nor can you see my Mac Pro, both make enough fan noise when under load that I have them surrounded by acoustic foam inside of what is essentially a large cabinet under my analog mixer desk. I also don't run Pro Tools to keep 'clients' happy, as I'm the only one that ever sees my workspace aside from friends and my wife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Apple is selling portables, Mac minis, iMacs and Mac Pros. You cannot build anything like a Mac mini, iMac or a portable Mac. As a home builder, you cannot build unibody cases, you cannot build a machine as small as a Macbook Air or Mac mini, you cannot build the computer into the back of a display.
My point was people need to get their comparisons traight. Ie, that the Laptop & "executive class" all in one machines do have that in common, you can't source the laptop motherboards that are used for both or the cases as an end user. You *can* easily buy htpc cases that come close (along with micro-atx mobos) to a Mac mini, and you can buy similar formats prebuilt. You can also buy laptops & Executive class systems from other vendors... Apple isn't exclusive here silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
You cannot use hard disks or SSD that have your own custom firmware to optimize performance. You cannot re-write the OS you use to make it work closely with the fans, as it cannot know the exact specs of generic fans, or the exact location of the temparature sensors. You cannot build internal or external glass multitouch trackpads. You cannot build a backlit keyboard, that adjusts brighness according to the surrounding light.
A Mac user didn't customize the hard disk (and fwiw Apple doesn't really customize normal HD's) any more than and OWC, OCZ, Intel or Crucial user needs to customize theirs. Nor are you re-writing the OS (lol!) and tbh the fan, power profile and overall sensor support on Windows blows away what's on Mac...mostly due to the Overclocking/gamer users who want that data down to the smallest minutae. You can also get multitouch and backlit keyboards from more than just Apple....with support for Vista, Win7 & the upcoming Win8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
You can build a machine that has similar specs on paper, if you tunnel vision into CPU speed, HD capacity etc. The similarity ends when you come back to the real world.
Your fanboy is showing again, the point was that comparisons need to be made directly (prebuilt models that are similar, hack to self build etc). But unsurprising that you'd coopt that for your own purposes
Old 22nd September 2011
  #178
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Wild story. Or stories.

I daresay if most folks had had your luck with Windows, MS would be a footnote in the history books.

I know I would never use a platform that had served me as poorly as you say Windows served you.

That said, I certainly did have a number of stability headaches in the early 90s with Win 3.0 and Win 3.1. Or I thought I did.

Turned out, it was the bios of the very expensive '386 I'd bought in 1988 that didn't like Windows' memory management.

When, not long before switching to the new Win 95, I switched to a Frankensteined '486 with the same, relatively tiny 4 MB of RAM as my '386 -- a move that cost me only 1/10th the cost of the '386 (I already the monitor), my stability problems were hugely diminished.

And, a few years later when I built a new machine and switched to Win 98, I was pleased to be able to go 4 months without a system crash. To be sure, that's not really bragging territory these days, but in the waning days of the 90s, that was something, I thought.

But what really brought stability was doubling up my RAM (to a whopping 256 MB heh ) and installing XP. I literally went years without a system crash, although balky hardware hung the system a couple times. When I finally got a BSOD after maybe 4 years or more -- which was, indeed, hardware related -- I was shocked.

XP has been pretty much everything I look for in an OS, at least within the bounds of 32 bit systems. Sure, there are things I would change, a few things that drive me nuts -- mostly related to MS's obsession with backward compatibility going back to the 80s, stuff like some core system windows that aren't resizable. I mean, c'mon. A small, non-resizable window with vital information you have to scroll to see? WTF? Now that's just plain nuts. Er... but there are only a few of those, and they're presumably just there for backwards compatibility.

And, after all, that backwards compatibility is something I count on nearly every day.

One of my key productivity tools is the Ecco Pro outliner/personal organizer that came out in the early days of Windows 3.x and has been orphaned for over a decade. It's been kept alive -- and seriously extended -- by a cadre of people who just can't imagine computing without it. And, for sure, while I went more than a few years without it, when I realized it was available as a sort of de facto open source program, it once again became an integral part of my work flow. (Honest to gosh, I do not understand why everyone doesn't use outliners. They are one of the best organizational tools ever. I use mine for everything from project development and tracking to keeping track of new music and artists.)
Thanks for the reply, I loved windows Xp but that crashed that destroyed everything was the last one in a series of crashes with different computers and had to try the alternative.

The thing happen however, when you get the "Mac experience" of stability, it's hard to go back if all the software you need are there. I don't play games, so windows for me really is just a different OS to do the same thing I do on my mac; but the mac for me is guaranteed stability (and I have 2 backups and 2 macs).

I actually started composing on my father's Atari ST (without permission) when I was 13 years old. We're talking 1 meg of ram, no hard drive, midi only, no score.

I was sending this in a tascam 8 track tape machine (using my father's wiring) and had to reset all the knobs to their original position before my father would come back in his studio and notice I played with it. It took him years to notice and then he bought a pc and I kept the Atari for another year or two.

I was quite lucky back then (1990) at that age to have my own computer.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #179
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Apple is selling portables, Mac minis, iMacs and Mac Pros. You cannot build anything like a Mac mini, iMac or a portable Mac. As a home builder, you cannot build unibody cases, you cannot build a machine as small as a Macbook Air or Mac mini, you cannot build the computer into the back of a display. You cannot use hard disks or SSD that have your own custom firmware to optimize performance. You cannot re-write the OS you use to make it work closely with the fans, as it cannot know the exact specs of generic fans, or the exact location of the temparature sensors. You cannot build internal or external glass multitouch trackpads. You cannot build a backlit keyboard, that adjusts brighness according to the surrounding light.

You can build a machine that has similar specs on paper, if you tunnel vision into CPU speed, HD capacity etc. The similarity ends when you come back to the real world.
The thing is eventually you don't have the time to build anything or even think about the internal parts of your computer; you have cash however, and need something that works immediately.
I don't care if a custom built PC is 9% faster than my iMac for 2/3 the price. Mac OS is slick, and I could produce for a decade with the same setup because it's stable, powerful, beautiful and well designed. It integrates well with my silver Euphonix consoles, etc, etc.

I think we pretty much always get what we paid for in the computer and professional audio equipment world.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #180
Lives for gear
 
Surbitone's Avatar
Considering this is a computer music forum, there seems to be little more than a handful of people who actually understand the concept of computers and the role they play in audio. So much outrageous misinformation and playground oneupmanship - embarrasing.
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