The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
How Do I Setup/Configure a PC to Run Like a Mac
Old 14th September 2011
  #91
Here for the gear
 

Dear god!

I've actually created an account just to wade in on this:

As someone who has worked for both Microsoft and Apple in the last 3 years (and who currently works for Sony, which in computing terms is effectively Microsoft) I felt I had to say that anyone who argues that mac or windows is better is flogging a dead horse.

Do you want to know what BOTH companies said when relating to their 'competition'? As far as our operating systems go, we are basically identical at this stage, in almost every way.

The decision really comes down to your preference in hardware and the way programs or 'apps' are developed. In terms of safety Microsoft have conceded that Macs are slightly safer when being used by a shrewd user, simply because there are millions more Windows PCs out there, so it is still more profitable to create malware for Windows. However with even a basic antivirus solution on either, this isn't a problem.

As for:

Performance: Almost IDENTICAL on similar specked machines
Price: IDENTICAL (if you are building your custom PC or Customac)

In terms of interface, I personally prefer mac, but windows is still extremely usable, and for certain tasks I still prefer it.

Programs are your only real point of difference, I like the wide range of small, niche apps that are constantly being developed for creative work, for example on mac there was an app I found for a couple of pounds that would batch convert high quality flac files to 65 bit mp3s for streaming purposes while I was working for an online music magazine, doing so silently in the background while I got on with the article. Found it within minutes, with one click it was downloaded to my dock and working. In comparison the windows method of browsing online, downloading, installing, etc.. is quite archaic.

Real creative software will not have an edge on the mac for long, the adobe creative suite is now just about identical with CS5 - very soon both OS's will reach parity with just about every piece of software out there - think about it, the companies that produce this software want to sell as many units as possible at the lowest possible production price, so why would they have an alternate, inferior version on another OS?) - so that can't really be used as an argument either.

So can everyone just grow a pair and stop defending one camp so fervently over the other?
Old 14th September 2011
  #92
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY View Post
My x58 cost $503,its a i5 2500k no video card needed.
You don't have an X58. You have an i5 and use onboard video so you have a H67 chipset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
You can turn that off, I'm pretty sure. (I think that's true up through Win 7.)
It's the first tweak we do on all of our workstations.
Old 14th September 2011
  #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkmonk View Post
I've actually created an account just to wade in on this:

As someone who has worked for both Microsoft and Apple [...]
See, now... if you'd just jumped in years ago, we'd have had this all settled by now. heh


Welcome to GS!

We only do these semi-annual knock-down/drag-outs (this is so tame as to almost not even count) in order to lure in perfectly reasonable and deeply knowledgeable guys like you from the lurker camp and turn you into active members.

Old 14th September 2011
  #94
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
So basically you are telling us you are not smart enough to check software for malware before installing, don't know how to find alternative tools for Windows, Can't figure out how to configure windows, couldn't figure out cygwin etc etc and people should listen to your advice? Riiiiight! heh

Alistair
Thanks for the personal attacks. Feel free to educate me how to replace BIOS on a PC Windows with EFI, how to run antivirus software without any performance hit, how to create a smart folder that finds all 24 bit .wav files that have a green label, how to set up a backup solution for individual files and the whole OS that can be configured with 1 mouseclick, how to set up file versioning, how to set up encrypted, firewalled peer to peer filesharing between 2 machines (that are not on the same network) with 1 click, how to keep multitasking smooth when 40 apps are open, how to keep browsing smooth when 60 tabs are open, how to provide meaningful control of fan speed when the OS does not know in which exact location the temperature sensors are, how to rebuild a power supply connector so it attaches with a magnet, how to replace a 2 button trackpad with a buttonless trackpad, how put the optical audio in and out into the minijacks on the side of a laptop, how to change languages in apps on the fly without a reboot (or reinstall), so you have Firefox open in French with Chrome next to it in English, how to install a system wide color picker that works across all 3rd party apps, and how to switch on sandboxing for individual processes.
Old 14th September 2011
  #95
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Thanks for the personal attacks. Feel free to educate me how to blah blah
I really wonder how our customers can work with our Windows based workstations. Broadcasters, opera houses, philharmonic concert halls, commercial studios, movie & game composers, post production studios, remote recording engineers and multiple german car manufacturers, as well as semi pro's and aspiring amateurs. And that is just audio, maybe I should list the 3D, event and video section as well? I thought they were happy customers, but now I actually pity them.
Old 14th September 2011
  #96
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Mac Defender was a classic scareware exploit that tried to trick users into giving admin approval for the malware install.

MacGuard, however, was a classic zero-day attack that end-ran the admin-approval requirement.
You can find info MacGuard here, complete with screenshots for the installer that you have to click through to get it on your system. The installer does not ask for an admin password for this variant, but you still have to make an effort to manually install it.

This is one of 3 pieces of malware available for the Mac (there were 2 that messed up DNS settings when installing pirated apps, password required). The patch to prevent MacDevender and its variants has been out for ages.


Compare that to over 1 million viruses available for Windows.


Just to avoid misunderstandings: it's perfectly possible that one day the first virus will show up for OS X (there were around 120 for OS 9 back in the day). But it has not happened in the last 10 years, regardless of relentless predictions that It will really happen, any minute now.

Security issues are not a Mac/PC thing. There are lots of platforms out there, some really excellent Linux and Unix variants, the only products that sport a large number of actual exploits come from one company only.
Old 14th September 2011
  #97
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
I really wonder how our customers can work with our Windows based workstations.
I really wonder how a whole nation could drive with Trabants...


P.S.:
Still waiting for the technical education for the points above..
Old 14th September 2011
  #98
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Thanks for the personal attacks.
Haha. It isn't a personal attack. It is just a translation of what you wrote. You walked straight into that one. :-)

But seriously, stop being such a fanboy. It is really silly. Both OSes have good and bad sides. For instance I just hate the Finder. No amount of arguing could convince me otherwise. I could explain why I hate it but would it make you hate it too? No, of course not. The same is true for your posts. They are not convincing anyone and just make you look like you are getting all worked up about nothing.

Alistair
Old 14th September 2011
  #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
I really wonder how a whole nation could drive with Trabants...
  1. get in the car at A
  2. ignite
  3. push the right pedal
  4. at some point, you are either at B or in jail.
Old 14th September 2011
  #100
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
For instance I just hate the Finder.
Argh, man, you just said something that I can sort of agree with, how can you do that??

Siracusa's arstechnica reviews really have the best details on all that is wrong with the Finder...
Old 14th September 2011
  #101
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkmonk View Post
I've actually created an account just to wade in on this:

As someone who has worked for both Microsoft and Apple in the last 3 years (and who currently works for Sony, which in computing terms is effectively Microsoft) I felt I had to say that anyone who argues that mac or windows is better is flogging a dead horse.
thats for sure..
and very nice first post. Welcome to the nightmare..

Quote:
Do you want to know what BOTH companies said when relating to their 'competition'? As far as our operating systems go, we are basically identical at this stage, in almost every way.
agreed for the most part

Quote:
As for:

Performance: Almost IDENTICAL on similar specked machines
Price: IDENTICAL (if you are building your custom PC or Customac)
here is where we disagree..

all cross platform software runs better on windows.
particularly since you mentioned it Adobe and Avid.

as far as price: not even close an Apple is vastly more than a windows system.
the only thing that comes close is the Imac. only a few hundred apart.




Quote:
Real creative software will not have an edge on the mac for long, ?
Apple lost that awhile ago.. other than Apple centric software only..

Scott
ADK
Old 14th September 2011
  #102
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkmonk View Post
I've actually created an account just to wade in on this:

As someone who has worked for both Microsoft and Apple in the last 3 years (and who currently works for Sony, which in computing terms is effectively Microsoft) I felt I had to say that anyone who argues that mac or windows is better is flogging a dead horse.

Do you want to know what BOTH companies said when relating to their 'competition'? As far as our operating systems go, we are basically identical at this stage, in almost every way.

The decision really comes down to your preference in hardware and the way programs or 'apps' are developed. In terms of safety Microsoft have conceded that Macs are slightly safer when being used by a shrewd user, simply because there are millions more Windows PCs out there, so it is still more profitable to create malware for Windows. However with even a basic antivirus solution on either, this isn't a problem.

As for:

Performance: Almost IDENTICAL on similar specked machines
Price: IDENTICAL (if you are building your custom PC or Customac)

In terms of interface, I personally prefer mac, but windows is still extremely usable, and for certain tasks I still prefer it.

Programs are your only real point of difference, I like the wide range of small, niche apps that are constantly being developed for creative work, for example on mac there was an app I found for a couple of pounds that would batch convert high quality flac files to 65 bit mp3s for streaming purposes while I was working for an online music magazine, doing so silently in the background while I got on with the article. Found it within minutes, with one click it was downloaded to my dock and working. In comparison the windows method of browsing online, downloading, installing, etc.. is quite archaic.

Real creative software will not have an edge on the mac for long, the adobe creative suite is now just about identical with CS5 - very soon both OS's will reach parity with just about every piece of software out there - think about it, the companies that produce this software want to sell as many units as possible at the lowest possible production price, so why would they have an alternate, inferior version on another OS?) - so that can't really be used as an argument either.

So can everyone just grow a pair and stop defending one camp so fervently over the other?
This is pretty much what I've said, except that I would add in the case of Adobe software if you use PS/AE/Premiere then Windows has the edge because the only non-Quadro Nvidia that will do gpu accell on a Mac is the GTX285, none of the consumer Fermi (current series) cards work without tricks and Mac 285's are going for exceptionally high prices used as a result (near or above original retail prices). iMacs with an ATI card can only do software rendering in Premiere & AE, and while PS still uses OpenGL for display fine there are a few functions that are reduced.
Old 15th September 2011
  #103
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
You can find out about end user access and EFI programming for OS X here. Singh's OS X book is not new, but has excellent information about system internals, including why EFI is a lot more secure than BIOS.
So in a discussion where we're talking about ease of use for end users being a winning point for OSX, we're going to start comparing EFI programming to what? How is this even relevant? There are a number of systems that have shipped on the 'PC' side since 2007/8 that have EFI primitives fully working btw, and Win7 supports them...including my 2008 Octo Xeon based on a SM X7DWA-n that matches my Mac Pro on just about every spec (except for having PCIe as well as PCI & PCI-x slots, more ram slots, more HD expansion, better cooling that I've customized and so on).

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
There's one thing I'd like to clarify: all of this is relevant to the OP, because a few years ago, I tried to do exactly what the OP is asking for. I was working in a Windows environment, and made daily efforts to make XP behave more like a Mac. This included trying to find a replacement for Stickies (I found one, it was crashy and installed malware), trying to get meaningful search results (I installed the Lookout toolbar, a good 3rd party tool that was purchased by MS just to kill it. Our sysadmins blocked the Lookout site, because of how the tool interfered with network traffic), trying to get organised in a way to quickly launch apps (half-succeeded on that one), quick access to required documentation (complete failure), half decent browsing performance (worked only with Firefox, company required MSIE for SAP access, argh), multitasking (no chance..), improve boot time (no way, best to not boot at all, leave it on), trying to find a replacement for Finder labels (I found one but did not install it, because all reports said 'malware' and 'crashes'), trying to find a replacement for Exposé (failed), Spring loading folders (failed), Automator type cross-application scripting (no chance), making cmd.exe behave more like a real Unix terminal (no chance, you could not even copy and paste properly), and on and on.
Oh wait, that's right. You're still insisting on comparing XP to everything... And obviously haven't heard of Powershell for Windows, CGYWin, GNU Utils for Win32, GnuWin or how to right click on a command prompt and 'enable quickedit mode'. And you're bringing up a HUGE number of Straw Man fallacies by listing your biased samples to draw your Ad Hominem conclusions on all current windows versions based on using a 10 year old version of the OS. Couldn't find more than 1 alternative to stickies really? And Search Results...hm Search 4.0 is backported to XP, you have several alternative Desktop Search apps you can install as well to sit on top of Search 4.0...and apparently you only know how to find apps that are loaded with malware.

I'll grant that you seem to fare better on Mac, but cherry picking your argument all the way to the end of this thread is proving nothing more than you're lacking competence on windows really. And since noone's trying to convince you to switch, what's the point? Several of us even keep pointing out that since modern OSes are essentially comparable on most major points you should stick with what works best for your chosen apps/workflow. You've made it quite clear what does...but still not contributed much else to the OP's original question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
A few years before that I made similar attempts, when I studied some VB programming (Microsoft Visual Basic). I tried to write an app with UI elements less garish than the standard Windows UI. I partly succeeded, the app had not a single standard Windows element (e.g. window or button), but it was impossible to get the flexibility of Interface Builder (it was still separate from Xcode back then), or the animations when UI elements appear or disappear.
A few years *before* XP? You studied a programming language that only provided basic API access to try to create custom UI elements on Windows? Sigh...try looking up Visual Studio, Expression and Blend and see what can be done on the Windows side these days. I'll not bother linking them as all the top google results will work fine.

Also can you PLEASE respond as to how this in ANY way correlates to the OP's original question and isn't repeatedly drawing things OT into Mac vs. PC religious zeolotry?
Old 15th September 2011
  #104
Lives for gear
 
tamasdragon's Avatar
 

This whole x vs. y thing is funny.

Macs are better if you like them better, or use some specific software, and love beautiful looking things.

Win machines are better if you like them better or use some specific software. Though, to build one, which is so nice looking, silent, you have to make research.

No good quality computer is cheap. To build a machine, you can save some money.

It's an easy choice here (hungary), because the price difference is almost non-existant. Of course, I'm talking about no warez software, buy everything for win too.
I prefer macs, but use peecees daily, and have no problem with them.
Old 15th September 2011
  #105
Lives for gear
 
Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
This whole x vs. y thing is funny.

Macs are better if you....love beautiful looking things.
Sums it up right there. heh


Apple is the king of marketing, from their product form, to their branding, to their elegant retail boxes. I just love getting (and giving) one of those white boxes for Xmas.
Old 15th September 2011
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
You can find info MacGuard here, complete with screenshots for the installer that you have to click through to get it on your system. The installer does not ask for an admin password for this variant, but you still have to make an effort to manually install it.

This is one of 3 pieces of malware available for the Mac (there were 2 that messed up DNS settings when installing pirated apps, password required). The patch to prevent MacDevender and its variants has been out for ages.


Compare that to over 1 million viruses available for Windows.


Just to avoid misunderstandings: it's perfectly possible that one day the first virus will show up for OS X (there were around 120 for OS 9 back in the day). But it has not happened in the last 10 years, regardless of relentless predictions that It will really happen, any minute now.

Security issues are not a Mac/PC thing. There are lots of platforms out there, some really excellent Linux and Unix variants, the only products that sport a large number of actual exploits come from one company only.
From the article you linked to:
Quote:
Intego today discovered a new variant of this malware that functions slightly differently. It comes in two parts. The first part is a downloader, a tool that, after installation, downloads a payload from a web server. As with the Mac Defender malware variants, this installation package, called avSetup.pkg, is downloaded automatically when a user visits a specially crafted web site.

If Safari’s “Open ‘safe’ files after downloading” option is checked, the package will open Apple’s Installer, and the user will see a standard installation screen. If not, users may see the downloaded ZIP archive and double-click it out of curiosity, not remembering what they downloaded, then double-click the installation package. In either case, the Mac OS X Installer will launch.

Unlike the previous variants of this fake antivirus,no administrator’s password is required to install this program. Since any user with an administrator’s account – the default if there is just one user on a Mac – can install software in the Applications folder, a password is not needed. This package installs an application – the downloader – named avRunner, which then launches automatically. At the same time, the installation package deletes itself from the user’s Mac, so no traces of the original installer are left behind.
The second part of the malware is a new version of the MacDefender application called MacGuard. This is downloaded by the avRunner application from an IP address that is hidden in an image file in the avRunner application’s Resources folder. (The IP address is hidden using a simple form of steganography.) [...]


Intego considers that the risk for this new variant to be medium, in part because the SEO poisoning has been very efficient in leading Mac users to booby-trapped pages, but also because no password is required to install this variant.


For further information about this fake antivirus and how it functions, see Intego’s Security Memo of May 2, 2011 describing the initial variant, Mac Defender.



Means of protection: the first thing to do is make sure that when seeing a web page that looks like a Finder window, and purports to be scanning your Mac, you know that this is bogus. Leave the page, and quit your web browser. If anything has downloaded, and the Installer application has opened, quit it right away; look in your Downloads folder for the file, then delete it. Next, users should uncheck the “Open ‘safe’ files after downloading” option in Safari’s General preferences.
[bold from original article]

I have no idea how many viruses or other malware there are that have targeted Windows over the decades. Lots and lots, without any question.

But it remains that, if your version of Windows 7 is properly up-to-date, you have precious little to worry about -- less than you have to worry about on the Mac because -- as that MacWorld article author notes in that article's comments -- Windows uses advanced randomization techniques to keep malware from being able to easily find vital system components, while the Mac puts parallel versions of those components in standardized locations.


Again, I don't mean to suggest that Mac users should now be fearful -- but I think it's time once and for all to pack it in on this whole Mac-is-more-secure thing. It was. But it's not now.
Old 15th September 2011
  #107
Deleted User #106149
Guest
Leave the pc alone and enjoy the fact that you have control over the machine you purchased. Or just install Linux which is free and is the backbone behind the MAC OS. You do realise the MAC is nothing but a gimmick for all the materialistic's out there?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Gearslutz.com App
Old 16th September 2011
  #108
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
OSX isn't linux, it's BSD/Darwin with a Mach kernel.
Old 16th September 2011
  #109
Lives for gear
 
Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcb123 View Post
You do realise the MAC is nothing but a gimmick for all the materialistic's out there?
You do realize that a computer is noting but a tool for all the productive people out there?
Old 16th September 2011
  #110
Lives for gear
 
hugol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcb123 View Post
You do realise the MAC is nothing but a gimmick for all the materialistic's out there?
Huh? Why? Macs are expensive compared to low end PCs - sure - but equally they are well designed and well constructed and hold their value well. The OS is certified Unix. Do you know how much Unix workstations used to cost? Choice is a good thing. Not your thing? Fine - go elsewhere - your choice.
Old 16th September 2011
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcb123 View Post
Leave the pc alone and enjoy the fact that you have control over the machine you purchased. Or just install Linux which is free and is the backbone behind the MAC OS. You do realise the MAC is nothing but a gimmick for all the materialistic's out there?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Gearslutz.com App
With all due respect...

Just as I maintain above that it's time to let go of the once-true-now-tired saw that Windows is less secure than the Mac, I'd say it's time to put to rest this notion that the only reason someone might want a Mac is because they're some sort of elitist or status-seeker.

I may not want a Mac, but it seems to me that there are plenty of perfectly good reasons someone might. Many folks simply like the Mac UI better or feel more comfortable with the tight control Apple places on the platform.

Maybe we could stop second guessing each others' choices and leave all this tit-for-tat stuff behind?

Old 16th September 2011
  #112
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
I think it'd be nice if the actual information in this thread (that relating to the original question) didn't stop half a page in but color me unsurprised otherwise.

On a related note, as a fan of Robert Anton Wilson I always enjoyed it when he referred to Belief Systems as B.S....
Old 16th September 2011
  #113
Lives for gear
MAC mini's are very powerful these days @ half the price of imac's.


Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 16th September 2011
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
You do realize that a computer is noting but a tool for all the productive people out there?
Finally a true and to-the-point statement.
Old 16th September 2011
  #115
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
You do realize that a computer is noting but a tool for all the productive people out there?
Problems arise when some people believe the tool is actually an object of worship, and anyone who uses a different type is a misguided individual (as an atheist, that's exactly what I get from the uber-Christians...)
Old 16th September 2011
  #116
Amen!.........
Old 16th September 2011
  #117
Lives for gear
 
inthere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPi61 View Post
Problems arise when some people believe the tool is actually an object of worship, and anyone who uses a different type is a misguided individual (as an atheist, that's exactly what I get from the uber-Christians...)
Would calling the other camp "fanboys" be the same?
Old 16th September 2011
  #118
To me "Fanboy" aint brand specific,its being a "Fan" and bein a boy!
Old 16th September 2011
  #119
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
I think it'd be nice if the actual information in this thread (that relating to the original question) didn't stop half a page in but color me unsurprised otherwise.

On a related note, as a fan of Robert Anton Wilson I always enjoyed it when he referred to Belief Systems as B.S....
R.A.W.
Old 16th September 2011
  #120
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
Would calling the other camp "fanboys" be the same?
There are fanboiz (sorry, it's the spelling as I learned it -- and I'm a traditionalist, if nothing else heh ) in either camp. But calling everyone who uses a certain platform -- or even who 'sticks up for' a given platform when someone else throws around info that may not be correct -- a fanboi is like any other form of prejudgment...
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump