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Drum Software - No Kits Like These (McCartney, Jon Brion, Beck, Midlake) Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 8th September 2011
  #1
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Drum Software - No Kits Like These (McCartney, Jon Brion, Beck, Midlake)

Alright so I've been trying to find some software drums that have a similar sound to the drum kits used in the references below and have found it's impossible. Everything is so dang "cracky" with the snare and boomy/snappy with the kick.

I've looked into: BFD2 (it's expansions), Addictive, Superior, EZ, NI Abbey Road, Ocean Way and Platinum...

Granted it seems a lot of the consumers of these products are predominantly loud rock and metal producers/artists, I was just hoping to find something that catered to a warmer, indie (if you will), dry sound.

Take a listen to these kits (while real drums I know) I just love these sounds and am surprised that no one has capitalized on this sound.










Dry, mushy, warm and fat... and it mainly has a lot to do with the snare (that's how I would describe these).

Does something like these exist? Have I overlooked a kit or package within the ones already stated above?
Old 8th September 2011
  #2
GMo
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I'm completely with you!! I too would love to have the drums ready to go in BFD,Kontakt,whatever.
Old 8th September 2011
  #3
BFD, with the expansion packs, like the Jazz & Funk one, definitely isn't just about loud rock drums. There are some quite naturalistic kits in there.
Old 8th September 2011
  #4
This is absolutely 'Custom & Vintage' territory:
https://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=56

Peter Henderson and I have both recorded with McCartney and done the retro, garage recording approach with him.
We both love the Sea Change album and actually set out to create a library that would work for that kind of contemporary sound (fatter, drier) when we went in to record 'Custom & Vintage'. Drums recorded in a small room thru a vintage EMI TGI console.

Recently we added a new pack which is slightly more open (bigger room and recorded thru a vintage Helios).
A few more softer, lower tuned snares in 'The Classic'.
It also features a completely separate 4 mic set up:
https://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=95
Old 8th September 2011
  #5
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toolskid's Avatar
 

Check out BFD's jazz and funk package and the Albini package also

Explore the mixer and the massive variation of tone and quality of sound you can get with combinations of balance and damping

You'll need to be compressing tastily along the way also
Old 8th September 2011
  #6
Gear Nut
 

i love that kind of drum sounds too, especially the one in the beck tune. is it from the album nigel godrich produced? he really knows how to nail drums.

well, i think you can get pretty close with the ni abbey road stuff. try the 70's drums premier kit, or the modern drums drum workshop kit...
with the mixer section you can easy dial in the right amount of natural room sound (i prefer them very dry, just a little) and on the drums section you can handle kick in/out and snare top/bottom mic's et cetera, with a little extra tweaking of a nice eq and a little compression you should be there.
Old 8th September 2011
  #7
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ryst's Avatar
 

I have no problem getting those sounds with Abbey Road 60's drums, SSD (Dan Steel kit), Superior Custom & Vintage, or Addictive Drums Retro Expansion pack.
Old 8th September 2011
  #8
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Quote:
I have no problem getting those sounds with Abbey Road 60's drums, SSD (Dan Steel kit), Superior Custom & Vintage, or Addictive Drums Retro Expansion pack.
Ditto - it's just how you mix & program them (don't hit too hard, use a low tuned damped snare & don't use too much room)
Old 8th September 2011
  #9
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
I admit I would really like an "imperfect" drum (as in the Imperfect Piano) sample set to have on stand-by for drum replacement.

Something by someone like Tchad Blake would be great.

R.
Old 8th September 2011
  #10
Our Jim Scott library for BFD has the exact sound you're looking for...

https://www.platinumsamples.com/JimScott.html

Check out Kit 3

Rail
Attached Files

Demo Kit 3.mp3 (1.17 MB, 1508 views)

Old 8th September 2011
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Ditto - it's just how you mix & program them (don't hit too hard, use a low tuned damped snare & don't use too much room)
This. Velocity 127 even in a vintage or jazz library is likely to be the drummer hitting very hard & is likely to "crack". BFD (& probably some of the others, and some DAWs) also allow you to dial back the velocity in the software itself so you can soften the hits without having to re-edit all your MIDI.
Old 8th September 2011
  #12
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88fingerz's Avatar
 

Steven Slate's "Steely Kit" comes to mind.
Old 8th September 2011
  #13
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Just my initial impressions on the aforementioned...

The Abbey Road 70's Tight Kit? It's got the dry, "tight" sound, down but that snare is way to thin and tiny. Compared to my examples.
(NATIVE INSTRUMENTS : HOME | HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE FOR MUSICIANS, PRODUCERS, DJS, GUITAR AND BASS PLAYERS)

The tea towel kit on Abbey Road's 60's drums is decent but you CANNOT get those drums to sound dry enough. Even with the room/ambient mics all the way down those drums are still way to LIVE sounding. Needs to be dry, needs to be dead and damp.
(NATIVE INSTRUMENTS : HOME | HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE FOR MUSICIANS, PRODUCERS, DJS, GUITAR AND BASS PLAYERS)

I listened to all the examples of BFD Jazz & Funk on this page and none of them sound close, in my opinion. The brush stuff is really nice though, but in my specific reference in what I'm looking for none of them fit the bill. The snare is still to cracky/snappy and tuned up to high. Needs to be deaden more if you reference my examples.
(FXpansion - BFD Jazz & Funk)

Ugh, I thought that Steely Dan Kit on Steven Slate Drums sounds gross. Way to thin, the high-end sounds cheap, there's no warmth whatsoever on those samples and the worst thing about this kit is the TOMS, those are for what I'm looking for are awful. Listen to the toms on that Beck tune and compare it to the SSD Steely Kit… you'll see.
(Steven Slate Drums)

The Jim Scott library sounded like it has the most potential, I actually really like the sound of the hats, but in my opinion the quality of the recording of the entire kit lacks, but it does sound like it has the headroom that with some additional eq and compression it definitely could work. ONLY Kit 3 is what sounds close. The others not so much.
(https://www.platinumsamples.com/JimScott.html)
Old 8th September 2011
  #14
Tui
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DrumCore has those type of kits.
Old 8th September 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
DrumCore has those type of kits.
Have a specific kit in mind?
Old 8th September 2011
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
Have a specific kit in mind?
You totally ignored Chris's post. Custom and Vintage by Toontrack is
what you're looking for.

TK
Old 8th September 2011
  #17
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
Have a specific kit in mind?
Yes, the "GT Ldwg Sparkle" sounds just like the kit in the first video clip.

DrumKit Pack Download [005-000327] - $99.00 : Sonoma Wire Works, Online Store

I think it is included in the basic version of DrumCore, but I'm not sure. I bought it a long time ago...

There's a free version with two kits here:

Sonoma Wire Works - DrumCore Drum Instrument Plugin and Drum Loops

I love DrumCore, I have been playing around with it all day today on my Yamaha e-drums.

The extension packs are good too, I've got most of them:

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/store...ort=20a&page=1
Old 8th September 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
You totally ignored Chris's post. Custom and Vintage by Toontrack is
what you're looking for.

TK
RE: http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=56

I saw it. I'm still trying to figure them out. The way the samples are laid out on their webpage and the actual samples given aren't very clear. I'd like to hear NO music with the samples and then the samples labeled with what kit is being used in the example.

With that said... the demo called "Sticks - Gretsch" sounds pretty good. I'd like to hear a little more of the bottom mic on the snare on that kit, hear a little bit more of the beads. Can that be adjusted?

"Sidestick Ballad" sounds really nice, but I really just want to hear JUST THE KIT no music. Having music and effects on it can really mask the product and not be a very good example of what you are buying. It doesn't give what kit was used for this... bad marketing. It almost looks like these demos are promoting these songs rather then the product.

"Slingerland 70's Style" that snare feels to far away and not intimate enough like that Beck snare.

"Sticks - Round Badge Black Beauty" has too much of a snap/almost crack to it.

I think it's good showing the drums with music in a real world example but you have to provide dry and unprocessed examples - that's what people are buying - otherwise it leaves too many questions.

Anyone at Toontrack or with Custom & Vintage can give me dry, raw unprocessed examples?
Old 8th September 2011
  #19
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samicide's Avatar
 

the classic ezx can get that sound, I mean you're looking for a paul mcartney type sound and someone who actually played with paul mcartney recorded a sample pack and recommended it to you, what the hell more could you ask for?
Old 8th September 2011
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samicide View Post
the classic ezx can get that sound, I mean you're looking for a paul mcartney type sound and someone who actually played with paul mcartney recorded a sample pack and recommended it to you, what the hell more could you ask for?
My references are not specific to THE "Paul McCartney type sound". Obviously as you can see there are multiple examples of different artists getting this particular sounding kit. Two of which were produced by Nigel Godrich.

McCartney and his bands The Beatles, Wings and his solo records have DOZENS of different drum kit sounds. Just because Chris played with Paul McCartney at some point doesn't mean his kits match the specific examples I've given. That isn't to say Chris did a fantastic job doing what he did, I'm just looking for a specific sound.

Now... with that said I've listened to all the examples on The Classic EZX... "4mic Noble & Cooley" has way to much crack and snap compared to my examples. "Craviotto Swingin" sounds just the same... and again the same with the Yamaha kit. There's just some sort of weird mid-range ring to these kits that in my opinion do not sound like the aforementioned song references.

The kits needed to of had towels on the snare when recorded (here is the mic'd drum kit from Sea Change : http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/69...a78_z.jpg?zz=1 )

Again... can Toontrack give some better samples of JUST the dry drums? I am still interested in hearing a raw unprocessed demo of the kit used on Custom & Vintage tune "Sidestick Ballad".
Old 8th September 2011
  #21
Gear Head
 

I too have been searching for this drum sound (in sampled form) for a while. Coincidentally, I've also narrowed it down to Beck and Jon Brion. With Sea Change, those drums are very round and mellow. Nigel Godrich seems to like his drums that way. It's interesting though because with Jon Brion, he clearly likes the same kind of kit but he records it in a much harsher way (that's also pleasing to my ears). If you listen to "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime" from the Eternal Sunshine soundtrack -- which is sung by Beck but I'm pretty sure recorded and played by Jon Brion (confused yet?) -- you can really hear how crisp and shimmery he makes this otherwise "dead" kit sound.

One thing is for certain: Beck, Jon Brion, and Nigel Godrich all clearly know each other and together hold the secrets for this awesome sound.

Anyway, better end this post before you all realize I actually haven't contributed anything...
Old 8th September 2011
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregm1989 View Post
I too have been searching for this drum sound (in sampled form) for a while. Coincidentally, I've also narrowed it down to Beck and Jon Brion. With Sea Change, those drums are very round and mellow. Nigel Godrich seems to like his drums that way. It's interesting though because with Jon Brion, he clearly likes the same kind of kit but he records it in a much harsher way (that's also pleasing to my ears). If you listen to "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime" from the Eternal Sunshine soundtrack -- which is sung by Beck but I'm pretty sure recorded and played by Jon Brion (confused yet?) -- you can really hear how crisp and shimmery he makes this otherwise "dead" kit sound.

One thing is for certain: Beck, Jon Brion, and Nigel Godrich all clearly know each other and together hold the secrets for this awesome sound.

Anyway, better end this post before you all realize I actually haven't contributed anything...
You are exactly right about describing Jon's sound vs Nigel's take... they are a bit shimmery but STILL have that "dead" sound (probably the mics and pres used between the two), and also maybe more of a blend of a bottom mic?

Here is the song referenced "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime" performed and recorded by Jon Brion and sung by Beck...



If a software/company/product has this sound or can make this sound in a drum software PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY!
Old 8th September 2011
  #23
We also have a "tea towel" kit in our Andy Johns library for BFD...

Kit 7 has the WFL 6.5x15" Vintage nickel over brass tube lug Black Beauty done 2 ways...

Option 1 is with a tea towel on the snare and Option 2 is with a weighted cigarette box on the snare

https://www.platinumsamples.com/KitL...dyKitList.html

Rail
Attached Files

AFJ Demo Kit 7 - Snare 1.mp3 (1.42 MB, 1407 views)

AFJ Demo Kit 7 - Snare 2.mp3 (1.42 MB, 1669 views)

Old 8th September 2011
  #24
Gear Head
 

I know you're not so into the Dan Steel kit from SSD, but this thread got me curious and I've been messing with them a little bit.

In the snare drum, go to the envelope page and dial back the decay to about 308.4 ms. This kind of imitates the tea towel effect. Also boost the volume a little bit. All these drum recordings seem to have EXTREMELY present snare drums, almost to the point of overpowering the rest of the kit.

I also replaced the hi hat in the Dan Steel kit with "hi hat 1." Then boosted the high end on the ride. And I turned down all the cymbals a lot, just to make sure nothing ever gets in the way of that snare.

None of this gets you those "Paper Tiger" toms, but it's a start...
Old 8th September 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregm1989 View Post
I know you're not so into the Dan Steel kit from SSD, but this thread got me curious and I've been messing with them a little bit.

In the snare drum, go to the envelope page and dial back the decay to about 308.4 ms. This kind of imitates the tea towel effect. Also boost the volume a little bit. All these drum recordings seem to have EXTREMELY present snare drums, almost to the point of overpowering the rest of the kit.

I also replaced the hi hat in the Dan Steel kit with "hi hat 1." Then boosted the high end on the ride. And I turned down all the cymbals a lot, just to make sure nothing ever gets in the way of that snare.

None of this gets you those "Paper Tiger" toms, but it's a start...
Mind sharing your results? I do not have Steven Slate Drums, I've only referenced the demos.
Old 8th September 2011
  #26
Gear Head
 

Here's a quick example, basically the beat from "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime." Aside from the changes I mentioned in my previous post, I also added a fairchild plugin just to make it punch a little more.
Attached Files

SSD dead drums example.mp3 (774.5 KB, 1215 views)

Old 8th September 2011
  #27
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Finnish's Avatar
 

I have SSD, Steely Dan kit comes to my mind
Old 8th September 2011
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregm1989 View Post
Here's a quick example, basically the beat from "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime." Aside from the changes I mentioned in my previous post, I also added a fairchild plugin just to make it punch a little more.
Thank you SO much for doing this. While this example is certainly much better then SSD demo example on their website, I still feel as if it's still not there. That isn't to say you could definitely get some use out of it for a certain client, for what I'm wanting, again, it just isn't thick and mushy enough.

Gregm1989 I really do appreciate you doing this though!!!
Old 8th September 2011
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples View Post
We also have a "tea towel" kit in our Andy Johns library for BFD...

Kit 7 has the WFL 6.5x15" Vintage nickel over brass tube lug Black Beauty done 2 ways...

Option 1 is with a tea towel on the snare and Option 2 is with a weighted cigarette box on the snare

https://www.platinumsamples.com/KitL...dyKitList.html

Rail
Thank you Rail, still trying to decide what I think of these. Definitely in the vein of what I am looking for, more so then many others... there's just something about the recording quality of these that bugs me, same with the Jim Scott drums. I don't know what it is and perhaps what bugs me would go away once the composition develops with other instruments.
Old 8th September 2011
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples View Post
Our Jim Scott library for BFD has the exact sound you're looking for...

https://www.platinumsamples.com/JimScott.html

Check out Kit 3

Rail
Rail do you have this Kit 3 by Jim Scott available as a dry demo? As in with the room and ambient mics turned down?
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