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Drum Software - No Kits Like These (McCartney, Jon Brion, Beck, Midlake) Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 13th September 2011
  #61
Jus
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"Granted it seems a lot of the consumers of these products are predominantly loud rock and metal producers/artists, I was just hoping to find something that catered to a warmer, indie (if you will), dry sound."

I have Superior, EZ, Ocean Way, some of Abbey Road... Was never quite satisfied with these. My search for exactly what you said was over when I found some kits in Drum Masters 2 (multikits, rather) and Ken Scott Epik Drums. Check out esoundz.com for these.

Particularly the Motown-ish Soul Kit from DM and Woody Woodmansey kit from Epik come to my mind.

I use these as Kontakt (and Infinite Player) libraries (i don't know if there are other options yet). In addition, I use EZ Player Pro to browse midi files, mainly from GrooveMonkee. A little trickier than just using Superior, AND you need a good computer as these are quite heavy (I'm on 4core iMac 2.93 GHz). But the sound is so much better for my purposes (indie pop). No going back for me.

A bonus is, that these are not in every second song you hear (that is one reason I don't like using Superior that much, not to mention Steven Slate, which is far too processed for a start).

You can also get some Phil Selway (Radiohead) drum sound out of these if you wish. Or like those on the Divine Comedy album Nigel Godrich produced (Regeneration, check it out if you haven't heard it).
Old 13th September 2011
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jus View Post
Particularly the Motown-ish Soul Kit from DM and Woody Woodmansey kit from Epik come to my mind.
Buy Drum Masters: Motown Multitrack Soul Drum Kit for the Infinite Player. (Downloadable sounds)

OMG!!! that is THE kit! The demos for this sound incredibly similar to selway's king of limbs stuff. I know toontrack does a dry grestch kit too. I have been looking for this sound in a drum sampler for over a year now. Will look into it more
Old 14th September 2011
  #63
Jus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidebomber View Post
Buy Drum Masters: Motown Multitrack Soul Drum Kit for the Infinite Player. (Downloadable sounds)

OMG!!! that is THE kit! The demos for this sound incredibly similar to selway's king of limbs stuff. I know toontrack does a dry grestch kit too. I have been looking for this sound in a drum sampler for over a year now. Will look into it more
Nice! That's about the same as my reaction with this one (and Ken Scott's Woodmansey kit)... Glad I could help!

Just remember that you need "Infinite Player" as well to play it in Kontakt. Buy Drum Masters - Infinite Player Starter Pack. (Downloadable sounds)
I am not ware if they have any special starter offers at the moment; sometimes you can get Infinite Player (which is just an encryption key) for free. (Squids?)

ps. I listened to the demo, it is just a small hint of what you can get out of it.
Old 14th September 2011
  #64
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theothermarkwilliams's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Request noted.

One of the key tricks for me is to make sure your midi is lower velocity.
If you program C&V with medium volume hits, say 100 to 110 velocity, the Sea Change sound starts to appear.

The included midi grooves are all higher velocity, as Toontrack wanted midi performance to be standard across the entire product range, but all you need to do is globally reduce my midi velocity by 10 to 30 ticks, or edit particular instruments.

If ever 'The Classic' goes on sale for $39 again I recommend it, as it works a treat in Superior. We sampled a lot of fatter, low tuned snares as we noticed a lot of requests for that sound, and you can dial out the larger room by concentrating on the close mics.
+1 to everything Chris has said in this thread so far.
C&V can definitely get the sound you're asking for, OP, and some of the trick is bringing down the velocity of the hits. For the snare to have some "breathing" room, the velocities can't be in the 120s. Or even the 110s, most of the time.

FWIW, I may actually like "The Classic" EZX even more than C&V, but that's because it's recorded in a bigger room, which is more my taste. But the C&V is simply an excellent pack.

And yes, I also wish all the Toontrack demo pages had some examples of the kits being played with no musical accompaniment and no effects.
Old 14th September 2011
  #65
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If you haven't listened to some of the producer presets for C&V, make sure you listen to the demos from the Peter Henderson presets. They'll definitely give you a better example of this genre of music than the demos from the main C&V page

http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=102
Old 14th September 2011
  #66
Someone just posted the perfect video of what C&V is about on another forum:
Chris Baker - Bluesy, soulful track - Superior Drummer Custom & Vintage SDX - YouTube

Raw unprocessed sounds apart from a 'ballad' preset on the snare top mic apparently.
Not overplaying the v-drums!
A couple of fills where you can hear the drums on their own.
Old 15th September 2011
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Someone just posted the perfect video of what C&V is about on another forum:
Chris Baker - Bluesy, soulful track - Superior Drummer Custom & Vintage SDX - YouTube

Raw unprocessed sounds apart from a 'ballad' preset on the snare top mic apparently.
Not overplaying the v-drums!
A couple of fills where you can hear the drums on their own.
Sounds pretty smooth, sounds like a Ryan Adams track. So far I am continuely being impressed by Custom & Vintage.

I know on ToonTrack's website you can purchase presets, is there any sort of community that puts out user created presets?

Lastly, regarding the velocity issue. Is there a way within Superior Drummer to say that you only want the loudest hit to be 110? If so where is that at in the program? Or is this something you have to configure in your DAW?
Old 15th September 2011
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
I know on ToonTrack's website you can purchase presets, is there any sort of community that puts out user created presets?
I think some people have. Try the vdrums.com forum (vst area).
The Official Superior Drummer Presets Thread

Presets, even the bought ones, tend to be product specific. So the C&V presets wont work in Avatar or Metal Foundry.

Quote:
Is there a way within Superior Drummer to say that you only want the loudest hit to be 110? If so where is that at in the program?
Superior gives you full control over velocity and how individual instruments react to incoming midi.
I think it's in the mapping section.
You can download the Superior manual here:
https://www.toontrack.com/downloads.asp

There's also a complete tutorial video series (I think 6 parts?) demonstrating all the features, basic and advanced, available here:
https://www.toontrack.com/tv.asp?cha...ESC&item=149#3
Old 15th September 2011
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
I know on ToonTrack's website you can purchase presets, is there any sort of community that puts out user created presets?
Personally, and I don't mean to come across as a d*ck here, but I have no idea why anyone would want preset drums, especially with a program like Superior 2.0 and its myriad of options.

My advice is to experiment: Create a drum kit with all of the levels in the mixer window at zero, buss out drums to groups in your DAW (i.e., Kicks, Snares, Toms, Overheads, Rooms, Hats), track a song and adjust to taste.

The more familiar you are with the tools at hand, the quicker the recordings will come.

That's just my opinion but it does come with years of experience.
Old 15th September 2011
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Superior gives you full control over velocity and how individual instruments react to incoming midi.
If I may add, the drum velocities in Superior greatly differ in tone and timber not only amongst different drums of the same family (snares & toms for example) but within each kit.

In other words, the "sweet spot" for each drum velocity is different from kit to kit and drum to drum. Just like in real life. Experimentation and exploration is necessary to achieve the "best" results in any given song or situation.
Old 15th September 2011
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post

In other words, the "sweet spot" for each drum velocity is different from kit to kit and drum to drum. Just like in real life. Experimentation and exploration is necessary to achieve the "best" results in any given song or situation.
Yep, the 'sweet spot' is almost never at velocities 125-127, which is surprisingly where a lot of users operate.
That's pretty much all I'm pointing out.
Old 15th September 2011
  #72
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You need to work the envelopes in superior drummer for the kik and snare especially. You can dry them right up by pulling the "reins" on the decay envelopes. Play around with it. I use the envelopes on every drum to tailor them to the feel of the track. This, along with the right ambience of the room mics and tuning should get you what you are looking for. These kits are meant to be owned and manipulated. Custom and Vintage EZX has every sound you are looking for. cheers! Have Fun.heh
Old 15th September 2011
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
Personally, and I don't mean to come across as a d*ck here, but I have no idea why anyone would want preset drums, especially with a program like Superior 2.0 and its myriad of options.
Well...because sometimes a composer wants to be in "music" mode instead of "engineer" mode. Having some presets that are close has been great when I just have that burst of creativity and don't want to dick around with different setting trying to get the sound right. I've lost count of the amount of times that's taken me out of the moment.
90% of the time I will still go back and edit the sounds afterwards, but I love that Toontrack has been selling preset packs for just this purpose.
Old 15th September 2011
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthdogg View Post
Well...because sometimes a composer wants to be in "music" mode instead of "engineer" mode. Having some presets that are close has been great when I just have that burst of creativity and don't want to dick around with different setting trying to get the sound right. I've lost count of the amount of times that's taken me out of the moment.
90% of the time I will still go back and edit the sounds afterwards, but I love that Toontrack has been selling preset packs for just this purpose.
I'm glad that works for you but quite honestly, it doesn't work for me.

As a composer, the first thing I do when I purchase a new drum pack is immediately zero everything out, create a drum map in Nuendo and either throw those drums in an existing track or create something on the fly. I never use preset mappings either because they don't "feel" right on a keyboard and often times, I'll program fills by hand instead of by mouse.

Then, I'll go through the cymbals, toms, snares and kicks to find out the samples sound like, then what works for what style of music. Once that's been determined, I create my own preset.

From that point forward, I recall the kit and drum map for immediate use in for whatever style the kit is in (i.e. classic rock, modern rock, funk, etc.).
Old 15th September 2011
  #75
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theothermarkwilliams's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
Custom and Vintage EZX has every sound you are looking for. cheers! Have Fun.heh
Just to avoid any possible confusion here, "Custom & Vintage" is an SDX. There's an EZX called "Vintage Rock", and it was taken directly from the "Custom & Vintage" sessions. Superior Drummer can work with either SDXes or EZXes. SDXes are always much larger and more comprehensive. Though I absolutely love "The Classic", which is an EZX.

Hope that clarifies things.
Old 15th September 2011
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markham View Post
Just to avoid any possible confusion here, "Custom & Vintage" is an SDX. There's an EZX called "Vintage Rock", and it was taken directly from the "Custom & Vintage" sessions. Superior Drummer can work with either SDXes or EZXes. SDXes are always much larger and more comprehensive. Though I absolutely love "The Classic", which is an EZX.

Hope that clarifies things.
And EZX's are 16 bit whereas SDX's are 24 bit.
Old 16th September 2011
  #77
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Yeah I try not to get to excited over semantics like sdx ezx or whatever else. The drift was, to message the software to get out of it what you want out of it. It gives you the straight samples and unfortunately we still have to produce the sounds that go with the track. cheers!



Quote:
Originally Posted by markham View Post
Just to avoid any possible confusion here, "Custom & Vintage" is an SDX. There's an EZX called "Vintage Rock", and it was taken directly from the "Custom & Vintage" sessions. Superior Drummer can work with either SDXes or EZXes. SDXes are always much larger and more comprehensive. Though I absolutely love "The Classic", which is an EZX.

Hope that clarifies things.
Old 28th September 2011
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregm1989 View Post
Here's a quick example, basically the beat from "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime." Aside from the changes I mentioned in my previous post, I also added a fairchild plugin just to make it punch a little more.
that's good drums. which kit is it?
Old 28th September 2011
  #79
One thing you have to (or should) accept if you have something like BFD and a couple of the expansion packs, is that you have to audition kits and find what works the best for the song. When I first started I'd just pick some kit and then do plugin backflips until I bashed it into something resembling what I need. Now I usually end up with very little processing, usually just a bit of EQ, sometimes some compression and it sounds vastly better. It's because I take the time to find the kit that works for the song, and it's not always at all obvious, at least not to me. Over time I'm starting to get a little better about having a good idea what's probably a good choice, but I still never just assume that's correct.

And, like above, I'd never use any sort of preset. I load up a kit, and start from scratch, just as I would if it was a real kit in a room. First just using track balance to try to get what I need, without trying to get rid of any bleed. If you have the right kit, you can get almost all the way there just with balance. The bleed can be frustrating to a newbie since changing the EQ of one drum affects the sound of another because you are EQ'ing the bleed of the other drums. But I think it provides a nicer sound if you don't get all anal and try to isolate everything.
Old 8th March 2012
  #80
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Anyone try SSD4 for this type of sound? I'd like to know.
Old 9th March 2012
  #81
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goddfodder's Avatar
 

Saw Paul McCartney live at the O2 in London just a month or so ago. Hands down the best live performance ive ever seen. The drummer, was out of this world. They all were to be fair.

Just a quick but it in to say,.. I just got BFD2 yesterday. Im only just getting into it (so i can only tell you so much) but i have to say the depth and the realism of this thing are just astounding. Im blown away by it. For me it was a great choice.
Old 9th March 2012
  #82
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tea towel kit on this:

Contempla
Old 9th March 2012
  #83
Gear Addict
great thread, had been looking for samples in this vein myself.
Old 9th March 2012
  #84
Here for the gear
Check out "Indie ADpak: from Addictive Drums. I have it and like the sound very much.
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