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Drum Software - No Kits Like These (McCartney, Jon Brion, Beck, Midlake) Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 8th September 2011
  #31
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
Thank you SO much for doing this. While this example is certainly much better then SSD demo example on their website, I still feel as if it's still not there. That isn't to say you could definitely get some use out of it for a certain client, for what I'm wanting, again, it just isn't thick and mushy enough.

Gregm1989 I really do appreciate you doing this though!!!

No worries, it took me all of 5 minutes to do. I'm with you on this too, there's just a certain warmth and presence that gets a little lost with how processed the SSD samples already are. Good luck in your search!
Old 8th September 2011
  #32
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duckoff's Avatar
 

Vintage rock (EZX) in SD has some good mutations-like sounds in it.
Old 8th September 2011
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckoff View Post
Vintage rock (EZX) in SD has some good mutations-like sounds in it.
Yeah, 'Vintage Rock' originates from the 'Custom & Vintage sessions.
Rystro,
Sorry you can't find the drum demos (without) music that you need.
Yes, C&V is very adjustable, and yes you can change the level of the under snare mic. The product is set up exactly like a regular drum recording session. You have access to all the mics and can bring them up or down to your hearts content.
I'm not sure how many drum software products were actually recorded in a small, dry room, but that's why we did C&V, to offer something different, and to cater for those people who enjoyed the fatter, drier sounds of Beck and Air.
Most of the drums are damped in some way, some are heavily damped. There's also a single headed kit on there.
Old 8th September 2011
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
Rail do you have this Kit 3 by Jim Scott available as a dry demo? As in with the room and ambient mics turned down?
Sure... I printed it 2 ways...

1) with no rooms and no kick & snare "crush" tracks

2) with no rooms and with the kick & snare "crush" tracks

Rail
Attached Files

Demo Kit 3 No Rm No Crush.mp3 (1.42 MB, 483 views)

Demo Kit 3 No Rm with Crush.mp3 (1.42 MB, 445 views)

Old 9th September 2011
  #35
Gear Addict
 
samicide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
My references are not specific to THE "Paul McCartney type sound". Obviously as you can see there are multiple examples of different artists getting this particular sounding kit. Two of which were produced by Nigel Godrich.

McCartney and his bands The Beatles, Wings and his solo records have DOZENS of different drum kit sounds. Just because Chris played with Paul McCartney at some point doesn't mean his kits match the specific examples I've given. That isn't to say Chris did a fantastic job doing what he did, I'm just looking for a specific sound.

Now... with that said I've listened to all the examples on The Classic EZX... "4mic Noble & Cooley" has way to much crack and snap compared to my examples. "Craviotto Swingin" sounds just the same... and again the same with the Yamaha kit. There's just some sort of weird mid-range ring to these kits that in my opinion do not sound like the aforementioned song references.

The kits needed to of had towels on the snare when recorded (here is the mic'd drum kit from Sea Change : http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/69...a78_z.jpg?zz=1 )

Again... can Toontrack give some better samples of JUST the dry drums? I am still interested in hearing a raw unprocessed demo of the kit used on Custom & Vintage tune "Sidestick Ballad".

toontrack or the platinum samples stuff can get close enough to those sounds, maybe not the slate drums but the other 2 definitely can, it might require you to have at least some entry level mixing skills though because part of that sound is how it's mixed and programmed, personally I think you're being silly like some others I see on the internet. if I cared I would try to match that sound with the classic ezx or the custom and vintage, but really I don't care enough because I can tell just about nothing would be good enough for you, I don't even know why I'm posting in this thread. lol good luck.
Old 9th September 2011
  #36
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

As a guy that's ripped off Beck and Jon Brion many, many times- I can tell you that you can somewhat easily get "that" sound using C&V. You can tuck some lower tuned Slate drums underneath if you want more shimmer. I own them all and that's as close as you're gonna get right now until Matt Chamberlain or Jim Keltner decides to do a sample collection.
Old 10th September 2011
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Yeah, 'Vintage Rock' originates from the 'Custom & Vintage sessions.
Rystro,
Sorry you can't find the drum demos (without) music that you need.
Yes, C&V is very adjustable, and yes you can change the level of the under snare mic. The product is set up exactly like a regular drum recording session. You have access to all the mics and can bring them up or down to your hearts content.
I'm not sure how many drum software products were actually recorded in a small, dry room, but that's why we did C&V, to offer something different, and to cater for those people who enjoyed the fatter, drier sounds of Beck and Air.
Most of the drums are damped in some way, some are heavily damped. There's also a single headed kit on there.
Can one forgo all the kits in the Superior Drummer and just get the software with no kits at a subsidized price with the purchase of Custom Vintage?
Old 10th September 2011
  #38
You have to buy Superior (Avatar).
None of the SDX's have the software, just samples.
There have been quite a few sales recently.
Sweetwater have 'C&V' for $150 for example.
Old 11th September 2011
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSon View Post
Here are some less expensive alternative to the sound you are looking for.

Tea Towel Drum | Wavesfactory | Kontakt libraries, drums, orchestral, bass, guitar, acoustic, electric, keys, percussion, best prices on the web. (listen to the mics demo)
This sounds decent for the price... I think I'll check it out. Thanks for these.
Old 11th September 2011
  #41
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duckoff's Avatar
 

Quote:
Tea Towel Drum | Wavesfactory | Kontakt libraries, drums, orchestral, bass, guitar, acoustic, electric, keys, percussion, best prices on the web. (listen to the mics demo)
yes - i have that, very nice
Old 11th September 2011
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Just bought the Tea Towel drums, very nice. Toms have a very unique sound, very Beatles Abbey Road sounding.

They quickly fit in to a mix pretty well too. Add some compression and they sound good. The quality isn't super amazing but they definitely will be a great tool to add to the toolbox.

SO it looks/sounds like Custom & Vintage is the way to go then...

Would love to see this sound and style of drumming sampled for drum software expand in the future to make for a more competitive and expansive market. Something even more dry, warm and dampened.
Old 11th September 2011
  #43
DTA
Gear Head
 

Being a fan of this "vintage" drumsound, too. Besides the TeaTowel Kit, i quite regularly use some of the libraries by Analogue Drums, which were recommended earlier. They're recorded with plenty of room, but you have access to the different mics via the kontakt GUI or mixer, so you can take the reverb off. I often use the close mics only and add some very short ambience.
Old 11th September 2011
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by rystro View Post
Something even more dry, warm and dampened.
But you haven't used 'C&V' yet.
If you find it isn't warm, dry and dampened enough, while still offering more normal sounding drums for variety...... get back to me.
FWIW, not all Beck's great drum sounds are teatowel types, but all those artists you listed have gone away from the bombastic, big room rock drum sound, which is the sound we thought dominated the drum software scene, which is why we made C&V.
Old 12th September 2011
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
But you haven't used 'C&V' yet.
If you find it isn't warm, dry and dampened enough, while still offering more normal sounding drums for variety...... get back to me.
FWIW, not all Beck's great drum sounds are teatowel types, but all those artists you listed have gone away from the bombastic, big room rock drum sound, which is the sound we thought dominated the drum software scene, which is why we made C&V.
Do you offer a demo or trial period?
Old 12th September 2011
  #46
No.
I'm not the company or seller by the way, just the guy who played and tuned the drums.
Old 12th September 2011
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
No.
I'm not the company or seller by the way, just the guy who played and tuned the drums.
Got it. Well after listening to the demos more, the more I actually really like Custom & Vintage.

Are you able to "detune" them? Basically change the pitch? I've been messing with these Tea Towel drums and it has an option to "tune" them, which I know is just a digital form of change the pitch of the sample wave, but is this a capability within Superior Drummer?

Thank you for answering questions and being very helpful.
Old 12th September 2011
  #48
No problem.
Yes, Superior has a lot of advanced features.
You can retune drums up and down, alter the decay with an envelope, completely change the mix inside Superior's mixer and use onboard fx like Transient Designer type fx.
There's also a pre-sales question area of the Toontrack forum...
Toontrack Support Forum
Old 12th September 2011
  #49
Gear Addict
 
rynugz007's Avatar
 

I have custom and vintage, though I haven't used it in a long time since it was too demanding for my previous PC. I'll give it another whirl now that i have a more powerful machine. I tried to sell the C+V but legally u can't resell toontrack products. It really turned me off on the company.

The samples sound great though I don't recall the super mellow "sea change" type drum sound being easily obtainable but if chris says its in there, then id take his word for it over mine.

I've recreated that snare sound pretty easily and the secret lies in a few areas: tuning relationship between bottom n top head, tuning the snares tighter which brings out the thuddy ness of the drum (at the exspense of sensitivity). Of course some muffling is needed...but most importantly- NOT HITTING RIM SHOTS! U can still get that sound w a loud hit but a rim shot brings in too much honky mids and crack.

Make your own samples if u can, its pretty easy to do
Sent from my DROID2 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 12th September 2011
  #50
Gear Addict
 
at4033's Avatar
I own and use many of the libraries mentioned here. At some point I would like to pick up EpiK DrumS - A Ken Scott Collection. I think the sound here (similar to, if not exactly what you are looking for) is superlative:


70s Elton John Style Kit.mov - YouTube
Old 12th September 2011
  #51
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feck's Avatar
The Sea Change drum sound is one of my all time favorites, and is elusive of course to ABSOLUTELY nail, but I have gotten close plenty of times using C&V and Platinum Samples - those are the best I have found. Abbey Road drums can do pretty well sometimes also, but they aren't quite as punchy as the other 2.
Old 12th September 2011
  #52
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s_sibs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynugz007 View Post
I tried to sell the C+V but legally u can't resell toontrack products. It really turned me off on the company.
Sure you can re-sell Toontrack products.

From the FAQ:

In respect to license transfer, please note the below information, for your own benefit:

You are the Seller - it is imperative that written consent is obtained by you (the licensee and seller) prior to a sale. We only disallow transferal in extreme circumstances if you are the original owner* but failure to follow the procedure outlined above may result in transfer being refused.

You are the Buyer - as a prospective buyer monitoring the 2nd hand market, you should always seek guarantees from the party transferring the license to you. It is in your interest to do so and you expose yourself to severe inconveniences if you ignore this recommendation.

* It is important to note that 2nd hand licenses are non transferable thereafter and the terms of the EULA printed herein will be in effect in full, with no exemptions.
Old 12th September 2011
  #53
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
But you haven't used 'C&V' yet.
If you find it isn't warm, dry and dampened enough, while still offering more normal sounding drums for variety...... get back to me.
FWIW, not all Beck's great drum sounds are teatowel types, but all those artists you listed have gone away from the bombastic, big room rock drum sound, which is the sound we thought dominated the drum software scene, which is why we made C&V.
As a long time C&V user, I completely agree that these sounds are the closest I've heard to the original examples in this thread.

Chris, one recommendation/request would be for a Toontrack to do a preset pack for C&V with these types of examples in mind. Having all the compression/transient etc plug ins already set up would be great for guys who just want to plug and play. (at least I would buy it...)
Old 12th September 2011
  #54
Request noted.

One of the key tricks for me is to make sure your midi is lower velocity.
If you program C&V with medium volume hits, say 100 to 110 velocity, the Sea Change sound starts to appear.

The included midi grooves are all higher velocity, as Toontrack wanted midi performance to be standard across the entire product range, but all you need to do is globally reduce my midi velocity by 10 to 30 ticks, or edit particular instruments.

If ever 'The Classic' goes on sale for $39 again I recommend it, as it works a treat in Superior. We sampled a lot of fatter, low tuned snares as we noticed a lot of requests for that sound, and you can dial out the larger room by concentrating on the close mics.
Old 12th September 2011
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynugz007 View Post
I tried to sell the C+V but legally u can't resell toontrack products. It really turned me off on the company.
Just to +1 Scott.
Yes you can sell on. People regularly sell Toontrack products in Gearslutz classifieds and other outlets.
Old 12th September 2011
  #56
It would be nice if BFD had some mono overhead style kits. They put out a poll at one point and that was one of the things to vote for, which I did. But definitely you can get some nice sounding stuff from the J&F pack. And yeh, how hard you hit the drums makes a lot of difference, just as it does with real drums. The further you look back in time, more or less, the less and less hard drummers were hitting the drums. Partly because they weren't having to compete against 50 layered guitars and keyboards and 100 layered vocal tracks.
Old 13th September 2011
  #57
Gear Addict
 
rynugz007's Avatar
 

Quote:
Sure you can re-sell Toontrack products.

From the FAQ:

In respect to license transfer, please note the below information, for your own benefit:

You are the Seller - it is imperative that written consent is obtained by you (the licensee and seller) prior to a sale. We only disallow transferal in extreme circumstances if you are the original owner* but failure to follow the procedure outlined above may result in transfer being refused.

You are the Buyer - as a prospective buyer monitoring the 2nd hand market, you should always seek guarantees from the party transferring the license to you. It is in your interest to do so and you expose yourself to severe inconveniences if you ignore this recommendation.

* It is important to note that 2nd hand licenses are non transferable thereafter and the terms of the EULA printed herein will be in effect in full, with no exemptions.
I bought C+V second hand. As stated directly above, you can't sell it unless you're the orignal owner. I've asked toontrack and was denied the right to transfer my ownership.

Though, I am gonna install it again on my new machine and see if I like it any better now. It's been a couple years since I've used it.
Old 13th September 2011
  #58
Love those types of kits you describe. Most people go for the full throttle, hard hitting roomy kits.

I highly recommend Wavesfactory Tea Towel Drums for Kontakt. It will be the best $10 you've ever spent.

Full description here: Tea Towel Drum | Wavesfactory | Kontakt libraries, drums, orchestral, bass, guitar, acoustic, electric, keys, percussion, best prices on the web.
Soundbyte here: Tea Towel Drums Test by The Buddha Rats on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Dry presets for AD can be found on my blog. They are free to download, free to use, and if you hate them... you guessed it: They're free.

Hope that helps.
Old 13th September 2011
  #59
Lives for gear
 
s_sibs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynugz007 View Post
I bought C+V second hand. As stated directly above, you can't sell it unless you're the orignal owner. I've asked toontrack and was denied the right to transfer my ownership.

Though, I am gonna install it again on my new machine and see if I like it any better now. It's been a couple years since I've used it.
Not being able to resell sample libraries more than once is a pretty standard practice. If fact, I would be surprised if any sample based sofware company would allow more then one resell...some allow no resale at all. Others offer one resell but with a fee.
Old 13th September 2011
  #60
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88fingerz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
No.
I'm not the company or seller by the way, just the guy who played and tuned the drums.
"You got me runnin in a Figure of 8..."

LOVE LOVE LOVE your playing on Macca's stuff! Big fan of Flowers' and 'Ground.

Thanks for the memories sir!
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