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What drum software do you use? Virtual Instrument Plugins
View Poll Results: What drum software do you use?
Addictive Drummer
32 Votes - 12.65%
Superior Drummer
75 Votes - 29.64%
EZ drummer
20 Votes - 7.91%
BFD
33 Votes - 13.04%
Slate
23 Votes - 9.09%
Ocean Way Drums
3 Votes - 1.19%
Ken Scott Collection
3 Votes - 1.19%
Abbey Road 60, 70 etc
11 Votes - 4.35%
NI Studio Drummer
9 Votes - 3.56%
Other
44 Votes - 17.39%
Voters: 253. You may not vote on this poll

Old 8th September 2011
  #31
Here for the gear
 
deepsoul's Avatar
 

I've been using AD..not bad but I am sure BFD is better.
Old 8th September 2011
  #32
restpause
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Usually Poise VSTi Sampler with various freeware drum samples from all over the net and royalty-free drum samples from sample CD's. It was a really good deal. velocity switching, round robin, pitch and envelope curves, panning, 16 outputs. good level controls and very good support. best 50 dollars I ever spent.

http://onesmallclue.com

Other times I use the FL Studio step editor and only use the Sampler modules. I'll set up a project step grid with 64 beats and just layer like crazy.
Old 8th September 2011
  #33
Gear Nut
 

AD here, with the Metal ADpak.
Old 8th September 2011
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astroidmist View Post
Usually Poise VSTi Sampler with various freeware drum samples from all over the net and royalty-free drum samples from sample CD's. It was a really good deal. velocity switching, round robin, pitch and envelope curves, panning, 16 outputs. good level controls and very good support. best 50 dollars I ever spent.

http://onesmallclue.com
Word!

Would like to hear from other Poise users about their experiences with a Akai MPD32 or other software controller surfaces, which pad surfaces they swear by, etc.
Old 8th September 2011
  #35
restpause
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody Aki View Post
Word!

Would like to hear from other Poise users about their experiences with a Akai MPD32 or other software controller surfaces, which pad surfaces they swear by, etc.
I'm just using an M-Audio (1st Gen) Axiom 25. It only has 8 pads, but I assigned the remaining 8 pads in poise to all of the white keys from middle C to upper C. This shows that you could use a keyboard with Poise even if you didn't have any pads.

The Axiom's black rubbery pads are really nice. They're firm enough to be durable, yet soft enough to dampen acoustical noise. And they don't feel clunky. I demoed some Akai pads on a controller at Guitar Center and they felt too hard and clunky in comparison. The Axiom's pads are very responsive too. You get dynamics/velocity variation without too much or too little.

That's my 2 cents.
Old 8th September 2011
  #36
Gear Addict
 

Hmmm...M-Audio, mixed feelings. If Akai's controllers have the same feel as the MPC's, I'm sold.
Mind you, I bet anything feels better than the pads on the Novation 61SL Mk.1 - God, do they suck....so stiff!
Old 8th September 2011
  #37
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
Well...there you go! I say something negative about it...and the man himself reads it

First of all it was because I was looking forward to it, and felt it was a product I'd really appreciate. And I bought it as soon as it came out.

The problems are primarily
1. The Infinite engine is cumbersome and confusing to work with
2. The sample pool is not big enough to be playable on V drums (machine gun galore)
3. The editing is sloppy (some have a click in the beginning...others hang), and the samples are too uneven to sound believable in a track (some will stick out in a bad way so you keep noticing them when the track plays)

I don't understand why it feels like the sample pool is too small...since it's 81 GB.
And it was a pretty expensive product...so I did expect it to run more smoothly.

After all many of us are getting used to very smooth operation on Superior and others...even the NI Abbey Road packs are a lot more easy and intuitive to get ones head around.

Bottom-line is that it has not made it to any of my productions since I got it, and when I have tried, it always starts to annoy me after some time that I recognize certain samples, fills sound odd or machine like or the back-beat feels repetitive.

It's a drag...since I don't doubt that the recordings were pristine, and I really like the idea of this pack.
And must be disappointing for you to have put a lot of time and effort into it...and then only get this kind of feedback.

A Toontrack version of this pack would probably be fantastic...if there are enough hits recorded to make for a detailed version like their Metal Foundry pack.

Cheers
Let me clarify a few things here if I may. The software itself is Kontakt, not Infinite Player, so Kontakt is the engine. Infinite Player is simply the Sonic Reality gateway to play the encrypted sounds within Kontakt.

I can understand some frustration from V-Drummers. Besides there being some known issues with velocities and alt choices which we're going to update drummer by drummer as we release each individual drummer's updated packs (and providing that to all previous users of the full EpiK DrumS) the product otherwise has a lot of great features that suit keyboard players, songwriters, producers etc. For one thing, the multitrack rex grooves with the drummers is a part of that (something you don't find in any other products) and the iMap layout kits in particular perform really well for that kind of drum programming in DAWS (ie. finger drumming and also with midi grooves which is something Ken's been meticulously working on as another additional feature of the product line... and it's sounding better than most midi I've ever heard).

The Kontakt scripting technology we worked very hard on to make essentially our iMap and GM kits port over to V-Drum and other e-Drum kits has its plus and minus points. Is the layout and feature set as ideal as these dedicated drum software products? No. It's still Kontakt. Ironically, NI is just releasing Studio Drummer which is more like that so we'll see what's possible in terms of integrating with that potentially. But, if the two things that are most important are the look and feel of the software and/or specifically V-Drum/e-Drum use then Kontakt may or may not be the format of choice. Everyone has their preferences. Perhaps you'd rather have the kits in BFD. When we release those we can cross-grade users to that format for cheap or maybe even free in some cases if they're not satisfied with it in Kontakt.

That said, as a keyboardist I actually prefer Kontakt to all of them and Epik Drums, apart from a list of tweaks that are being made fixing any known issues, suits me just fine. In fact it's everything I dreamed it to be and I could create a drum track with it that I would defy anyone to be able to tell if it was a real drummer in the studio or not. But, each person works differently is the thing. For those that use V-Drums, we can tweak it to improve it but there comes a point where no matter what we do to improve the V-Drum performance kit to kit at the end of the day I've found that most V-Drummers I find STILL prefer BFD2 or Superior Drummer! So... to please them we're probably better off focusing on reaching them through those adored formats.

My feeling about it as a sound developer is to go where the demand is. If people want these kits in BFD2 because of this or that feature of the software then we'll go there. We're already doing it. As for Superior Drummer, I am all for it but we'd have to coordinate with the Toonies to make that happen. Companies without unlimited funds have to take it one step at a time. So if the BFD versions do really well (and our only BFD title today does actually outsell the Kontakt version so that's a good sign) then it could help pave the way for more alternate format options.

While it would not be appropriate for anyone to be doing direct customer support on here, I invite any users to give any reports of issues they find to customer support allen (at) esoundz (dot) com and we can look into them. Now is the perfect time because we're preparing a re-release drummer by drummer. We have incorporated previous feedback from users already into the free update.

Last edited by Squids; 9th September 2011 at 12:40 AM..
Old 9th September 2011
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squids View Post
Let me clarify a few things here if I may. The software itself is Kontakt, not Infinite Player, so Kontakt is the engine. Infinite Player is simply the Sonic Reality gateway to play the encrypted sounds within Kontakt.

I can understand some frustration from V-Drummers. Besides there being some known issues with velocities and alt choices which we're going to update drummer by drummer as we release each individual drummer's updated packs (and providing that to all previous users of the full EpiK DrumS)

As for Superior Drummer, I am all for it but we'd have to coordinate with the Toonies to make that happen. Companies without unlimited funds have to take it one step at a time. So if the BFD versions do really well (and our only BFD title today does actually outsell the Kontakt version so that's a good sign) then it could help pave the way for more alternate format options.

While it would not be appropriate for anyone to be doing direct customer support on here, I invite any users to give any reports of issues they find to customer support allen (at) esoundz (dot) com and we can look into them. Now is the perfect time because we're preparing a re-release drummer by drummer. We have incorporated previous feedback from users already into the free update.
Thanks for the post Dave.

May I ask why you can't set it up like Abbey Road drums are in Kontakt? ...It's a lot easier to work with...the constant scrolling up and down on Infinite player is really frustrating. It's impossible to see what kitpiece one is editing at a glance, and if you want to audition another sound, it gets mingled in the crowd too easily.
On Abbey Road drums it changes display according to the kitpiece you are playing...at least easier in Kontakt. But not nearly as intuitive and fast as Superior.

It seems like such a waste that you all did all this work...and then end up with a product that nobody uses
And both the price and nerdyness seem to aim at the really picky users...so you really should consider to get this on the S2.0 platform. Especially if you have all the bleeds and lots of hits recorded.
I have BFD too...but prefer S2.0 in daily use.
Old 9th September 2011
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
Thanks for the post Dave.

May I ask why you can't set it up like Abbey Road drums are in Kontakt? ...It's a lot easier to work with...the constant scrolling up and down on Infinite player is really frustrating. It's impossible to see what kitpiece one is editing at a glance, and if you want to audition another sound, it gets mingled in the crowd too easily.
On Abbey Road drums it changes display according to the kitpiece you are playing...at least easier in Kontakt. But not nearly as intuitive and fast as Superior.

It seems like such a waste that you all did all this work...and then end up with a product that nobody uses
And both the price and nerdyness seem to aim at the really picky users...so you really should consider to get this on the S2.0 platform. Especially if you have all the bleeds and lots of hits recorded.
I have BFD too...but prefer S2.0 in daily use.
Thanks. I wouldn't say 'nobody' uses it (we know that's not true) but it certainly hasn't reached its full potential for a variety of reasons. One of them being the high price tag and the unfortunate economy situation that has happened since we started the project. As a solution to that obstacle we are putting together a variety of lower priced options that offer more specific things centered around each drummer. The big package will be available for those that want it all and can afford it (and it will be updated to include new features added such as midi grooves from each drummer which are outstanding and also any bug fixes in patches etc.).

Anyway, alternate formats are also going to be offered. BFD2 kits from EpiK DrumS are sounding fantastic and I really think e-Drummers will like those a lot. There are a number of dedicated drum features in BFD that are really good like its remap functions for articulations and the whole way it sorts velocities in the development makes it less likely for some of the issues we've come across in Kontakt to happen. Granted there are other sacrifices though with these other formats. They may or may not mean anything to you. Kontakt is capable of higher resolution audio (in this case 48k vs. BFD and Superior which use 44.1k only I believe). We have have a potential 96k version in the wings but that too would only be able to be done in Kontakt and not these dedicated drum software products... unless they can support 96k in the future. So it's always a trade off. As I said, as a keyboardist/songwriter/producer I am personally THRILLED with the Kontakt version drum libraries we have and I also have zero problem using the interface... it's Kontakt which is the most popular sampler there is these days! So I am used to loading instruments of a multi and picking the sounds I want whether it is drums or keyboard sounds, world instruments... not a problem for me. But I understand some people find it cumbersome.

Anyway, to answer your question as to why we don't just do it the way they did Abbey Road Drums... well, first of all, that came out after us. I agree it's cool. I'd have to go back and forth to compare feature for feature to see what it doesn't have that we do though and visa versa but either way to do a whole revamp of the scripts to be more like that AND still retain the proprietary features we have in ours (including as I mentioned the only multi-track rex grooves on the market... where you can follow the tempo of the sequencer with the groove of the drummer AND still have discrete mics to mix!) would be a very big project. Might be worth doing except that... before you know it a company like NI might do their own thing such as STUDIO DRUMMER! Boy am I glad we didn't go chasing that rainbow. Probably better to just see how we can integrate our Kontakt kits into that format. No one is going to beat NI at their own game.

So, bottom line here is this. We're going to be making many of our drum libraries available in a variety of formats and people can choose the platforms they prefer. We're thinking that BFD will probably be the preferred choice of e-Drummers. Maybe STUDIO DRUMMER too if we do that and as far as Superior Drummer... I personally love the software so we'll see what happens. I think the sales of the BFD version will determine what makes sense to do next... since another factor is that sample companies don't have unlimited funding to do everything you ever wanted. We have to pick and choose. FXpansion was very accommodating with their development tools and made it easier for us to start on that one first. So that's what we're doing!

In the meantime, the updated Kontakt version may just do the trick for some people especially with regard to any velocity/alt issues we can improve. The instrument/multi system though (still "cumbersome" to some ) but with the midi grooves playing iMap format and the new lower price options I am sure it will reach a lot more people.
Old 9th September 2011
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
...so you really should consider to get this on the S2.0 platform.
In fairness, I think it's Toontrack who decide which products are released in Superior format. So you need to lobby Toontrack on this.
So far, regarding 3rd party product, we've only seen one Platinum pack (Evil Drums), so you would assume more Platinum releases in Superior format before any other 3rd party release.
Personally I would love to do an SDX of my own every year, but the sales figures wont support more product, especially with so many competing (and good quality) platforms (eg Kontakt, BFD etc...).
Unfortunately, making the same basic products available in multiple platforms just takes development money away from new product in my view.
Although I totally sympathize with your post Oli, as Ken Scott is responsible for several of my all time favourite albums, specifically the drumming and drum sounds he presided over.
Old 9th September 2011
  #41
Gear Addict
 

Yes one has to decide whether to put time, effort and expense into multiple formats or into more drum products. Although in the case of having something as rare as Epik Drums A Ken Scott Collection it's worth exploring multiple formats because getting Cobham, Bozzio, Morgenstein, Siebenberg and Woodmansey together with Ken again ain't gonna happen in this lifetime and there's nothing else out there that's specifically just like it. User experiences with it will vary depending on how they use it and the way the sample platform works best. Kontakt is capable of some great things and there's no doubt improvements can be made. But given the beta reaction to the BFD versions with some e-Drummers already I think it's likely they're just going to want to get it in BFD. Fine with me. The keyboardists may want to stick with Kontakt for a variety of reasons. Songwriters and producers can take their pick as both versions will have the new midi grooves extracted from the drummer's performances using a variety of tools ranging from drum triggers in the session to Toontrack's Drumtracker which we all like a lot... that and some very detailed techniques Ken is doing. The results are fantastic. I really think users are going to love these updates. First one is happening early October. So not that far away.
Old 11th September 2011
  #42
Thanks to all who participated!

Looks like Superior Drummer is untouchable with more than 1/4 of the users preferring it.

I regret that I forgot to put Mixosaurus on the list, as it is probably the most serious attempt at realism yet. But also the most expensive option there is.
Old 11th September 2011
  #43
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
Thanks to all who participated!

Looks like Superior Drummer is untouchable with more than 1/4 of the users preferring it.

I regret that I forgot to put Mixosaurus on the list, as it is probably the most serious attempt at realism yet. But also the most expensive option there is.
I 2nd superior drummer. I use it in reaper and without a doubt sounds really professional, and it's room mics along with it's routing capabilities make me feel it's vastly superior to steven slate and BFD for sure
Old 11th September 2011
  #44
Deleted User
Guest
Superior 2 here mostly with all the SDX expansions.

I use AD as a rhythm guide track while tracking other stuff.
Old 12th September 2011
  #45
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
In fairness, I think it's Toontrack who decide which products are released in Superior format. So you need to lobby Toontrack on this.
Toontrack is present...just so you know

(hey look, my first post!)

Martin, Toontrack
Old 12th September 2011
  #46
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Drumasonic !!!

Zabukowski
Old 13th September 2011
  #47
Gear Addict
 
Hide's Avatar
Can I say.... I use KONG.
Old 13th September 2011
  #48
Gear Nut
 
Leechlife's Avatar
 

Why do I only get vote for 1? I always mix at least 2 kits. Best results I get by mixing bfd2 with slate and sometimes add an NI kit.
Old 13th September 2011
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leechlife View Post
Why do I only get vote for 1? I always mix at least 2 kits. Best results I get by mixing bfd2 with slate and sometimes add an NI kit.
Seems to be the way polls work here on GS.
There is no option to make it so that you can vote for several...even if that was what I intended.
Old 13th September 2011
  #50
Jus
Lives for gear
 
Jus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Scott View Post
Hi, Finally someone says something about it, even if it's negative. May I ask why it was such a disappointment?

Cheers
Ha! I'm not going to repeat what I just wrote here: Drum Software - No Kits Like These (McCartney, Jon Brion, Beck, Midlake)

...but you have my vote, Mr. Scott.

It may be that these are not the best solution for actual drummers, I don't know about that, but for midi programming for indie pop/rock, I have found some EpiK kits (Woodmansey is my favourite, I guess) + some in Drum Masters 2 (I must add) very, very heart-warming. Could not make music without, once I have found them.

If there are any "bad" hits which jump out of the picture I just record the drum and replace those ones. Yet I have noticed this with some DM kits, mainly. My very special admiration, compared to any other libraries, goes to rides and toms in the Epik library.
Old 14th September 2011
  #51
Gear Addict
 

I have or had pretty much most of the drum software out there (BFD, SD, AD, SSD, Epik Drums, OWD Gold, ARD) and play on an ekit. BFD is my favorite, closely followed by SD2. I do hope the KS stuff makes it way to another platform at some point.
Old 14th September 2011
  #52
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmontano View Post
closely followed by SD2.
You mean Stormdrum 2? If so, yes, I have to agree, EastWest has implemented round robin samples surprisingly well.
Old 14th September 2011
  #53
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
You mean Stormdrum 2? If so, yes, I have to agree, EastWest has implemented round robin samples surprisingly well.
Sorry I meant Superior Drummer! This thread inspired me to whip out ARD drums last night. Was playing the 70s and 80s kits. Not too shabby.
Old 14th September 2011
  #54
Here for the gear
 

Previously been a big fan of Steven Slate, Recently made the jump to NI Abbey Road Modern drums and couldn't be happier!
Old 14th September 2011
  #55
Here for the gear
 
Studio6460's Avatar
 

Addictive Drums + expansions.
Old 4th October 2011
  #56
Gear Maniac
 
Mr. Bars's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli P View Post
Right...exactly how I feel about it.

The Ken Scott pack was the biggest disappointment ever
I'm not agree. The Bill Cobham Kit was recorded pretty cool and sounds really nice. I'd buy this particular kit tomorrow, if it sell separately from the others. It's exactly what I like according to audio demos but the price of full pack kills me. Unfortunately there is no sense to me of other kits except Cobham's one.
Old 4th October 2011
  #57
I have Superior Drummer 2...it's good...but I don't have e-drums, can't drum, can't midi drum more than a snare bang and hardly ever seem to be able to find decent fills to go with any of the songs I do.

To me the fills often sound 100x more complex, crazy and harsh than what I need.

Working out a drum track is the most cumbersome and annoying part of any project and slows everything down.

Of course...I'm not a skilled drum programmer/ user of SD2. But I find it a bit weird because even some fills that are grouped and belong to a given style often do not match verse/ chorus patterns. Even the Nashville pack, packs fills that sound like Lars Ulrich played them or something...just way, way too over the top for my particular styles...you can't win 'em all...but having bought the Nashville stuff I was expecting a little bit more finesse or a little bit more of a laid back vibe on some of the midi fills and grooves.

So my drums always sound like this: boom chhk boom chhk boom chhk

Anyway...
Old 4th October 2011
  #58
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello people View Post
To me the fills often sound 100x more complex, crazy and harsh than what I need.
Superior works with any of the EZ Drummer expansions & MIDI packs, too. THIS may be a good answer for you. The MIDI is much more sparse. I'm about to pick it up myself.
Old 4th October 2011
  #59
Sure PERfan...we'll see...it looks promising...small room etc
Old 4th October 2011
  #60
All my included midi is realistic and somewhat sparse. I'm incapable of playing '100x more complex'.
Apart from the products aimed at the Metal crowd, I think realistic midi is the way Toontrack are going. So expect more in the future (like Americana).
http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=95
http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=56
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