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Ease of use - Melodyne or Auto-Tune? Dynamics Plugins
Old 6th September 2011
  #1
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Ease of use - Melodyne or Auto-Tune?

Going to have to do some slight pitch correction for my projects.
I've never used any pitch correction software.


What would you recommend learning for some simple flxes?

Melodyne? Auto-Tune?
Old 6th September 2011
  #2
Gear Nut
 

I found Autotune to be much more intuitive, and to my ears Melodyne introduces more artifacts. However, I greatly prefer Waves Tune to both.
Old 6th September 2011
  #3
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If all you need to do is fix a few notes Melodyne is very easy and very fast. Just make sure you put it in the FIRST SLOT in your plug-ins because any changes made to plugins parameters in slots above Melodyne are ignored since Melodyne is reading its changed data off of disk, not from the audio stream.

I haven't used auto tune in about 7 years...
Old 6th September 2011
  #4
Autotune is easier to use if you want to sound like a robot.
Melodyne is a PITA to use, but natural sound is possible.
Autotune can manage to do minor correction without being detectable however it doesn't know what to do with vibrato and usually tries to correct it.

My method of choice is lots of takes and tons of comping.
Old 6th September 2011
  #5
Registered User
Consider Gsnap - and not just because its free ...

GVST - GSnap Manual
Old 6th September 2011
  #6
Gear Nut
 

I found Melodyne way more musically intuitive than Autotune. never tried waves tune...
Old 6th September 2011
  #7
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mmcfarlane's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
Autotune is easier to use if you want to sound like a robot.
Melodyne is a PITA to use, but natural sound is possible.
Autotune can manage to do minor correction without being detectable however it doesn't know what to do with vibrato and usually tries to correct it.

My method of choice is lots of takes and tons of comping.
One nice thing about Melodyne is it lets you handle pitch, vibrato, and pitch drift as 3 separate corrections. Many times a drift correction is all I need, to help singers who come (typically flat) onto or off of notes in a non-musical way.

Pitch drift is a 'valid' vocal technique, but sometimes it just does't sound right.

Melodyne also works well on instruments, easy to fix a note here and there, even on fretless instruments, timing as well as tuning.

Oh ya, I usually regret telling the talent that I even have the capability to pitch and/or time correct. Don't ever let on to this possibility unless you are being paid well, by the hour . I think I dumped 5 hours one day tweaking 7 backing vocal tracks to get everyone to breath and phrase together... Comping takes would have been faster if I had the takes.
Old 6th September 2011
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
Autotune is easier to use if you want to sound like a robot.
Melodyne is a PITA to use, but natural sound is possible.
Autotune can manage to do minor correction without being detectable however it doesn't know what to do with vibrato and usually tries to correct it.

My method of choice is lots of takes and tons of comping.
Melodyne is easier to kind of get a "natural" sound, but to my ears it DESTROYS the top end in a vocal. Just A/B the bypass....all the air disappears. You can EQ a bit back in...but kind of pointless getting a great tracking chain together if you're just going to do this!

AT is harder to get sounding natural (and for large tuning jumps, probably won't sound as good anyway) but when used carefully in graphic mode (from the above post... I'LL tell it what to do with vibrato thanks! this is only a problem in auto mode, which to be honest should never really be used in a finished product...) you can get very natural results with no artefacts - if you have a good singer to start with of course!
Old 6th September 2011
  #9
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
AT is harder to get sounding natural (and for large tuning jumps, probably won't sound as good anyway) but when used carefully in graphic mode (from the above post... I'LL tell it what to do with vibrato thanks! this is only a problem in auto mode, which to be honest should never really be used in a finished product...) you can get very natural results with no artefacts - if you have a good singer to start with of course!
Yep, a few little lines drawn in the right places in graphical does the trick. Becoming a bit tedious to agree so often......
Old 6th September 2011
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Yep, a few little lines drawn in the right places in graphical does the trick. Becoming a bit tedious to agree so often......
We're just the same person and you know it!
Old 6th September 2011
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
We're just the same person and you know it!
No, No, there can only be ONE!
Old 6th September 2011
  #12
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The Fold Studios's Avatar
 

They're both quite different to be honest. Autotune definitely introduces a certain "sound" even when used mildly that seems to be becoming popular in slick pop productions as a part of the sound as well as for just pure pitch correction.

IMO Melodyne is far superior for correcting a few notes here and there of a generally well performed vocal for styles outside of super-slick pop
Old 6th September 2011
  #13
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Outlaw Hans's Avatar
 

lol. This is what I call "the ultimate lazy man's question".
Old 6th September 2011
  #14
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theBackwardsman's Avatar
 

If you can't get it to sound good with AT, IMO the singer should consider doing something else.
If the take is so bad that AT can't fix it in a natural way, redo!

I use autotune on mostly good singers to get it from great to perfect, and it's almost always impossible to detect.
Old 6th September 2011
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fold Studios View Post
They're both quite different to be honest. Autotune definitely introduces a certain "sound" even when used mildly that seems to be becoming popular in slick pop productions as a part of the sound as well as for just pure pitch correction.

IMO Melodyne is far superior for correcting a few notes here and there of a generally well performed vocal for styles outside of super-slick pop
No, I don't think AT does. You can use it skilfully and there's NO artefacts, NO sound (given a certain competency of vocal performance). OTOH, as soon as you engage Melodyne, the sound deteriorates (even if you don't actually correct anything).
Old 6th September 2011
  #16
Gear Head
 

I know this thread is between melodyne and auto tune but if the application is mainly for vocals izotopes nectare (which has pitch correction as one section of the plugin) is a great plugin that gets a lot of use here even when the vocals don't get tuned at all.
Old 6th September 2011
  #17
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VoltsUnited's Avatar
 

nectare is pretty sweet, but an absolute cpu destroyer. if this is your first run at pitch correction i would go with auto tune efx. idiot proof... i still use it sometimes over the full version of auto tune if the vocals going in are already pretty close.
Old 6th September 2011
  #18
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mmcfarlane's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
... OTOH, as soon as you engage Melodyne, the sound deteriorates (even if you don't actually correct anything).
FWIW, I've never noticed this deterioration. Also, you can use Melodyne to 'capture' only the words or phrases that you wish to effect, so it should have 0 impact on anything else.

There is one annoying thing with Melodyne in Cubase (and I expect all similar plug-ins have the same problem), if you shift a track in time the time shift isn't detected by Melodyne. My suspicion is that tracks time shifts aren't reported to VSTs. The impact of this is, when you change only a few words, they will now play out of Melodyne at the original, unshifted (wrong) time.

So, my 'best practice; is:
1) Make it your first plug-in in the track's plug-in chain (explained earlier in this thread)
2) Don't time shift any tracks after you insert the plug-in.
Old 6th September 2011
  #19
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EastWest Lurker's Avatar
 

Funny because I hadn't had to do this in a while until this week so even though I had AutoTune 7 for quite a while, I hadn't really used it. Last week, however, I recorded a very pitchy singer. I opened AT7 in Logic Pro 9 in graphical mode, as automatic was not giving me a good enough result because the singer's pitch was all over the map. In the past I have experienced graphical mode as a colossal pita to work with. I was surprised by how much easier it is to do so now and how really good AT now sounds.

I haven't bought Melodyne simply because I don't really need it but my friends who use it love it.
Old 6th September 2011
  #20
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scruffydog's Avatar
melodyne is a very creative tool....brilliant for single and layered sculpting.
But...there are times i miss a simple autotune option....(long time since i had a copy of AT...melodyne is my choice of the two)
i would say if you like autotune you will love melodyne and that there is room for both if you can afford them.
Old 6th September 2011
  #21
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skyshooter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Melodyne is easier to kind of get a "natural" sound, but to my ears it DESTROYS the top end in a vocal. Just A/B the bypass....all the air disappears. You can EQ a bit back in...but kind of pointless getting a great tracking chain together if you're just going to do this!

AT is harder to get sounding natural (and for large tuning jumps, probably won't sound as good anyway) but when used carefully in graphic mode (from the above post... I'LL tell it what to do with vibrato thanks! this is only a problem in auto mode, which to be honest should never really be used in a finished product...) you can get very natural results with no artefacts - if you have a good singer to start with of course!
I'll agree with that, don't use much auto correct, though the auto quantizing works very nice. I'm fortunate that a girl I've been working with has fantastic pitch, it's her timing that I've been adjusting here and there. Melodyne has been fantastic for that. Start with good input and you'll find it easy to get everything flowing in the groove.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app so please forgive any bad auto-correct. I'll try to fix it in the mix later!

Last edited by skyshooter; 7th September 2011 at 05:12 AM.. Reason: clarity of my words... typing on a mobile
Old 6th September 2011
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcfarlane View Post
FWIW, I've never noticed this deterioration. Also, you can use Melodyne to 'capture' only the words or phrases that you wish to effect, so it should have 0 impact on anything else.
Try A/Bing. You'll notice it immediately - it's not subtle. Basically any time that Melodyne has "captured" (even if you're not actually correct it) it's getting that filter happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcfarlane View Post
There is one annoying thing with Melodyne in Cubase (and I expect all similar plug-ins have the same problem), if you shift a track in time the time shift isn't detected by Melodyne. My suspicion is that tracks time shifts aren't reported to VSTs. The impact of this is, when you change only a few words, they will now play out of Melodyne at the original, unshifted (wrong) time.

So, my 'best practice; is:
1) Make it your first plug-in in the track's plug-in chain (explained earlier in this thread)
2) Don't time shift any tracks after you insert the plug-in.
NO edits on the original track will be noticed by melodyne - as soon as you scan it into melodyne, you're no longer playing back from the DAW channel but from the melodyne plugin.

It's good practice to have your tuning plugin as the first insert always, in case you need to change something later as you note. regardless of if it's melodyne, AT, whatever.
Old 6th September 2011
  #23
Gear Maniac
Not trying to sniper your thread but...

How about variaudio (cubases built in pitch correct) in comparision to auto tune and melodyne? I've used it to correct some vocal parts in cubase 5 and its worked pretty well as long as the vocals arent too pitchy but at times it seems to miss the mark all togetehr. It is "free' and so i would expect AT and melodyne to be far superior, but can anyone comment because I was thinking of getting AT myself if its worth it.
Old 7th September 2011
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcfarlane View Post
There is one annoying thing with Melodyne in Cubase (and I expect all similar plug-ins have the same problem), if you shift a track in time the time shift isn't detected by Melodyne. My suspicion is that tracks time shifts aren't reported to VSTs. The impact of this is, when you change only a few words, they will now play out of Melodyne at the original, unshifted (wrong) time.

So, my 'best practice; is:
1) Make it your first plug-in in the track's plug-in chain (explained earlier in this thread)
2) Don't time shift any tracks after you insert the plug-in.
It's a pain but time shift them inside of melodyne. The thing is Melodyne editor is like a DAW within a DAW so it's kind of like recording your tracks into it. Once there the playback is from Melodyne not the host program. Melodyne has much of the same chopping and moving features of your daw.

I find Melodyne plugin such a cpu hog and so prone to crashing hosts I prefer to use the standalone melodyne, do all my correction and import the processed files back to the host. This way i can work with them as reg audio files and dont have to worry about crashing. I have used Cubase's vari-audio (and sonar's) and i have to say I much prefer the integrated solution. Melodyne still does abit more though I think as far as editing transitions and the like.

Ive spent so much time on melodyne and at first it was like "My God" I can do this all day for other studios and charge like $100 an hour because of the possibilities. And then it was like why does doing this have to suck so bad. Then it was like just sing it a few more times I'm sure we'll get an in tune one. It's interface and workflow is just so bad. i don't understand. Amazing technology with a primitive interface.

I mean if you really get into using it like I have there's just some obvious thngs that would be so helpful. I think anybody would come up with these same ones actually. Things like a display of the notes center and fluctuation pitch on the waveform events themselves. It needs a gradiated grid to campare the wiggly fluctuation line against. This way you can actually see the amount of fluctuation at any time rather than only going by ear and looking at the notes with no cents markers on the left of the screen. Also you should be able to see at a glance what an event's original pitch was and how much you've moved it without returning it to it's original position (which i know it does). You should also be able to quickly store and recall multiple pitch and time positions within the waveform events. I mean if your going to give us note based editing go all the way and let the notes store various edits that we can call up at anytime. There should also be a note fluctuation limiter as well. There is something like a pitch "compressor" that lessens the fluctuation, but why not somthing that can handle those non proportionate spikes in vibratos and such without splitting and manually doing it all the time. I mean even why do all the waveforms have to be the same color, why not different colors for different notes or for amount that've been corrected. Hell I'd be happy just to see a different color for notes that have been corrected than ones that haven't. I mean nothing Ive suggested here is hi tech, especially compared to what's under the hood.


I have tons more I just have been so frustrated with melodyne being so close to something that could both pull off amazing results (which it does) and not be something I don't even tell my customers about anymore cause i don't want to have to do it.
Old 7th September 2011
  #25
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Are you guys complaining about the sound of Melodyne using the lastest version? The current version I've got is 1.2.1 and the plugin (and its scaled down stand-alone companion) are the only versions with these improvements.

For a start the sound quality has improved a lot. I still sometimes hear stuff on esses (only when moved around), but the rest of it sounds great. You should never hear a change in audio just by capturing the data but not changing anything.

I've got Melodyne, Waves Tune and AT7. When I've got to dig in and really do some heavy lifting on some really ordinary vocals, it's Melodyne every time. I think it makes it so easy it's almost fun. If Waves Tune would allow its GUI to be grown large like the other two, then it would challenge for top dog because it sounds GREAT and has some unique tools.
Old 7th September 2011
  #26
js1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fender4593 View Post
Not trying to sniper your thread but...

How about variaudio (cubases built in pitch correct) in comparision to auto tune and melodyne? I've used it to correct some vocal parts in cubase 5 and its worked pretty well as long as the vocals arent too pitchy but at times it seems to miss the mark all togetehr. It is "free' and so i would expect AT and melodyne to be far superior, but can anyone comment because I was thinking of getting AT myself if its worth it.
Variaudio is really good. I haven't been using Melodyne much since Variaudio was added. The integration into Cubase is a real pleasure after working with the non-integrated Melodyne. The fact that it stays part of the project instead of separate files that you have to keep track of is great too.

Audio quality - really, the artifacts are different than Melodyne, but on the same level. Which is to say - once you learn how to use it, it can be transparent. I didn't truly understand how to use it cleanly until I saw it demo'ed at a Cubase clinic. And one thing that Variaudio does better than Melodyne is detection of breaths, and not messing them up.

In fairness, I haven't pitted it against the new (DNA) version of Melodyne. I do have it. It worked once after install, after which it started up with a fatal error that I haven't sorted out yet.

My recommendation - get good with Variaudio, THEN get the demos for Melodyne and Autotune and compare.

js
Old 7th September 2011
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey MTC View Post
Are you guys complaining about the sound of Melodyne using the lastest version? The current version I've got is 1.2.1 and the plugin (and its scaled down stand-alone companion) are the only versions with these improvements.

For a start the sound quality has improved a lot. I still sometimes hear stuff on esses (only when moved around), but the rest of it sounds great. You should never hear a change in audio just by capturing the data but not changing anything.

I've got Melodyne, Waves Tune and AT7. When I've got to dig in and really do some heavy lifting on some really ordinary vocals, it's Melodyne every time. I think it makes it so easy it's almost fun. If Waves Tune would allow its GUI to be grown large like the other two, then it would challenge for top dog because it sounds GREAT and has some unique tools.
I'm talking about DNA. I don't use it a lot, but the version I have still affects the top end. As soon as you capture the data, it starts playing back from the plugin, and that's when the top end goes. Try it - just bypass the plugin whilst listening critically. you may not notice it just coming in dry, but it stacks up.
Old 7th September 2011
  #28
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mmcfarlane's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'm talking about DNA. I don't use it a lot, but the version I have still affects the top end. As soon as you capture the data, it starts playing back from the plugin, and that's when the top end goes. Try it - just bypass the plugin whilst listening critically. you may not notice it just coming in dry, but it stacks up.
Curiously, what sample rate and bit depth are you using in the DAW when Melodyne damages the high end? I have a session booked today, I'll try bypassing to see what I hear. I typically run 48K and 32 bit float, although I've never looked at Melodyne's intermediate files to see what they are...
Old 7th September 2011
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
Melodyne is a PITA to use
This statement couldn't be further from the truth.
Old 7th September 2011
  #30
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If it's ease of use then AT is the way to go,
If it's natural SOUND, then also AT (graphic mode).
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