The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
14 bit midi controllers DJ Controllers
Old 26th July 2011
  #1
Lives for gear
 
maxwelldub's Avatar
 

14 bit midi controllers

Hi, I'm looking to compile a list of midi controllers that send 14 bit (high resolution) midi data. I've noticed that the knobs/encdoers my nanokontrol and korg kontrol jump around a lot when doing filter sweeps. I'm looking for a controller that can do really smooth filter sweeps. Thanks
Old 26th July 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Altitude909's Avatar
 

All novation controllers have NRPN
PC-1600
BCR/BCF with 3rd party software (can do everything)
Old 26th July 2011
  #3
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
I guess this doesn't really count but I use my Andromeda as a controller when not using it for it's own sounds. It sends out NRPN and has nice big chunky knobs for Fc and Osc tune.

Alistair
Old 26th July 2011
  #4
Lives for gear
 
maxwelldub's Avatar
 

will check those out, thnx
Old 28th August 2012
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
dexfx69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
All novation controllers have NRPN
I have the X-Station, it's strictly 7 bit with extremely limited (almost nonexistent) NRPN infrastructure. I get 128 levels of MIDI data, which sucks when I hear filter zippering.
Old 19th October 2012
  #6
Gear Head
 

I pray for 14bit MIDI control
Old 20th October 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexfx69 View Post
I have the X-Station, it's strictly 7 bit with extremely limited (almost nonexistent) NRPN infrastructure. I get 128 levels of MIDI data, which sucks when I hear filter zippering.
I'm pretty sure he was referring to their current products which use Automap and the endless encoders (for the most part) and so will actually be able to give usable resolution when 14bit data is being sent. Novation fits a certain price:performance category over the years though and while the X-station controllers weren't horrible compared to the other models that existed at the time, they're out of date now and certainly no longer supported by Automap to the degree that their newer products are.

Besides the fact that X-station is not only not a current product from Novation, the faders and encoders on it are so miniscule, how could you complain about the lack of 14bit data? I would imagine they also parameter jump just from being cheap and somewhat stiff (at least the ones I've seen). So if your intent was to tell the OP to avoid 5+ year old sub $100 used offers on craiglist, then good form!

& to get back on topic my BCF2000 sends 14bit data just fine. What I do though is set faders to send on different midi channels and just use pitchbend as it's 14bit and doesn't lag midi processing like NRPN's and Sysex can do. Most of the tools I do the pitchbend data with have methods to convert midi to what I need (Logic) or just assign the controller directly (Live, Traktor etc) and seem to support passing the 14bit resolution on to the thing being controlled (plugin etc).

Alternatively maybe invest in a plugin or two that can 'de-zip' (or slew limit) the important automation parameters. CC related stepping was a known factor for a long time now, and most hardware & software has incorporated at least some method of compensating for it.
Old 22nd February 2013
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
CC related stepping was a known factor for a long time now, and most hardware & software has incorporated at least some method of compensating for it.
older post, i know... but this brings up an interesting thought... my Virus interpolates it's own controllers brilliantly, giving me filter sweeps just as smooth as my true analogs (not digitally controlled....i.e. no memory!)... of course, i like the SOUND a bit more on the analogs, but different topic...

so: does the Virus pass it's interpolated/smoothed MIDI on output? anyone know? I'm at work and not in a position to check right now.
Old 12th August 2015
  #9
Here for the gear
 

No, they can't. I wish dearly that you were correct. They're *supposed* to, but they chop off/ignore one of the bytes (I can't tell you which, and I may be wrong on this specific). One of the guys that writes the third party software (I forget the names right now.. Mountain utilities? Royce?) was helping me try to sort out problems with this about two years ago.
Basically, so few users back in the day were actually using NRPN's that Behringer cut this corner.
I have a Novation A-Station. Love it or hate it, a knob controller (like my BCR's) makes it *way* more fun for live tweaking and creating horrible (which end up often being glitchy and over incremental) sounds without stepping through menus.
But, IMHO there were serious interface design "flaws" that can make it pretty annoying. For example: control individual oscillators from the front of the A-station you have to use a physical three position slide-switch to select which one you're editing with the (tiny and dark) knobs. To control the arpeggiator, you have to slide a shift switch over using another slide switch and then step through a bunch of menus. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
Every (or close enough to every) parameter and menu selection is controllable via MIDI... but all of the slide switches and far too many of the menu items and "hidden knob" features are buried in "packed parameter" and NRPN messages. And these messages are where this obscure limitation of the BC's come to the fore.
You can kind of hack around and make some of the CC functions sort-of do some of these things (with fun results actually), but the NRPN message options available just don't-quite-work-right.

I have been informed that it's unlikely that anything can be done in new BCR firmware and software to remedy this.

I went so far as to call Novation support to see what they could tell me. They informed me that none of the controllers they've ever made go deep enough to handle this. I guess they were just kind of hoping someone else would do the work someday. No clue.
FWIW, the A-Station is super-powerful once you get page after page of knob controls. Four pages of assigned knobs still aren't enough to cover what the A-Station can do. But, MAN, not being able to address those critical messages was a huge disappointment and makes addressing those parameters hell of painful and irritating. Every slide of a switch is accompanied by a moment of "how long will it be before this switch is useless?"

I am in this forum now looking for alternative solutions, and, man, I sure hope I am wrong. And regarding the A-Station: it isn't really Analog, no. But it really is a killer, and, especially with added knobs, a great complement to a pile of other synths with amazing character of it's own.

Sooooooo frustrating.









Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
...
BCR/BCF with 3rd party software (can do everything)
Old 28th January 2016
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimu View Post
No, they can't. I wish dearly that you were correct. They're *supposed* to, but they chop off/ignore one of the bytes (I can't tell you which, and I may be wrong on this specific). One of the guys that writes the third party software (I forget the names right now.. Mountain utilities? Royce?) was helping me try to sort out problems with this about two years ago.
Basically, so few users back in the day were actually using NRPN's that Behringer cut this corner.
I have a Novation A-Station. Love it or hate it, a knob controller (like my BCR's) makes it *way* more fun for live tweaking and creating horrible (which end up often being glitchy and over incremental) sounds without stepping through menus.
But, IMHO there were serious interface design "flaws" that can make it pretty annoying. For example: control individual oscillators from the front of the A-station you have to use a physical three position slide-switch to select which one you're editing with the (tiny and dark) knobs. To control the arpeggiator, you have to slide a shift switch over using another slide switch and then step through a bunch of menus. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
Every (or close enough to every) parameter and menu selection is controllable via MIDI... but all of the slide switches and far too many of the menu items and "hidden knob" features are buried in "packed parameter" and NRPN messages. And these messages are where this obscure limitation of the BC's come to the fore.
You can kind of hack around and make some of the CC functions sort-of do some of these things (with fun results actually), but the NRPN message options available just don't-quite-work-right.

I have been informed that it's unlikely that anything can be done in new BCR firmware and software to remedy this.

I went so far as to call Novation support to see what they could tell me. They informed me that none of the controllers they've ever made go deep enough to handle this. I guess they were just kind of hoping someone else would do the work someday. No clue.
FWIW, the A-Station is super-powerful once you get page after page of knob controls. Four pages of assigned knobs still aren't enough to cover what the A-Station can do. But, MAN, not being able to address those critical messages was a huge disappointment and makes addressing those parameters hell of painful and irritating. Every slide of a switch is accompanied by a moment of "how long will it be before this switch is useless?"

I am in this forum now looking for alternative solutions, and, man, I sure hope I am wrong. And regarding the A-Station: it isn't really Analog, no. But it really is a killer, and, especially with added knobs, a great complement to a pile of other synths with amazing character of it's own.

Sooooooo frustrating.
I built an editor in Reaktor for the A-station due to all the problems mentioned. Here's a link.

https://www.native-instruments.com/e...try/show/9041/
Old 10th April 2018
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Pioneer DJ controllers, tested with DDJ-RX, DDJ-SP1. "Real" resolution is 10-bit for these.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump