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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base Audio Interfaces
Old 30th November 2018
  #2821
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M Albazy's Avatar
 

PreSonus Quantum

Received the PreSonus Quantum today for my Windows 10 workstation with built-in TB3.

Did a quick test on all DAWs I got installed (Protools Pro 12, Studio One Pro 4, Ableton 9, Cubase Pro 10) and it did function as it should. And no issues at all during the installation process. I've included also the RTL utility figures.

Converters quality I'll say it's subjectively very good, especially for what it cost. With powerful HP amps. The mic pre-amps really powerful but I don't care about them quality, I prefer to use external mic pre-amps anyway.

I would love if they give us credit on the Plugin Alliance bundle instead of the pre-chosen plugins as I already got them lol. Also, I already own Studio One Pro 4 so the included Artist license useless in my case.
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-quantum-48khz-latency-w10.png  
Old 1st December 2018
  #2822
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
Received the PreSonus Quantum today for my Windows 10 workstation with built-in TB3.

Did a quick test on all DAWs I got installed (Protools Pro 12, Studio One Pro 4, Ableton 9, Cubase Pro 10) and it did function as it should. And no issues at all during the installation process. I've included also the RTL utility figures.

Converters quality I'll say it's subjectively very good, especially for what it cost. With powerful HP amps. The mic pre-amps really powerful but I don't care about them quality, I prefer to use external mic pre-amps anyway.

I would love if they give us credit on the Plugin Alliance bundle instead of the pre-chosen plugins as I already got them lol. Also, I already own Studio One Pro 4 so the included Artist license useless in my case.

I had issues with my quantum. It would not register when I turned on the computer and I had to unplug the thunderbolt Cable every time if I wanted to use it. It was rather annoying and for that reason I sold it.
Old 1st December 2018
  #2823
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jlaws's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
I had issues with my quantum. It would not register when I turned on the computer and I had to unplug the thunderbolt Cable every time if I wanted to use it. It was rather annoying and for that reason I sold it.
Were you on pc with a thunderbolt 2 aic, by any chance?
Old 1st December 2018
  #2824
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M Albazy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
I had issues with my quantum. It would not register when I turned on the computer and I had to unplug the thunderbolt Cable every time if I wanted to use it. It was rather annoying and for that reason I sold it.
Which TB3 extension did you use? Also, did you approve the interface to be always automatically connected through the Intel TB control panel?
Old 1st December 2018
  #2825
Gear Addict
 

I was using an ASRock Z370 gaming Itx.
It's got TB3
I also used an apple Thunderbolt 2/3 adapter.

I asked the tech support and they suggested I buy a different TB 2/3 converter.

I decided. Screw it. Best sell the quantum if it was giving me troubles. I had already spent some time troubleshooting a Keith McMillan interface. So my patience was running out. I just wanted something that worked. UAD Arrow fit the bill. But... That got switched out for an RME Babyface Pro.

The arrow is a good interface. But I'm not a fan of the UAD methods. I think they have great plugins. But even on sales they are too expensive.
Plus.... The plugins don't add and value to the interface. I think it would be cool if UAD had a subscription based format as well. Pay as you go with ownership would be a better model.
Until then... I'll pass. I have other plugins such as S-gear, blue cat, black rooster, etc that give me excellent results. Sorry. Got a bit off topic.
Old 1st December 2018
  #2826
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
I had issues with my quantum. It would not register when I turned on the computer and I had to unplug the thunderbolt Cable every time if I wanted to use it. It was rather annoying and for that reason I sold it.
FWIW - I have tested the Quantum successfully directly on TB2 and also TB3 to TB2 using a Startech adapter. I also have the Apple adapter here for qualification with all TB interfaces , total crap shoot. I shelved it. Apple adapter should be reserved for Apple systems only IMO.

Your problem with the Quantum was most likely due to your use of the later.

I digress

Old 1st December 2018
  #2827
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daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
FWIW - I have tested the Quantum successfully directly on TB2 and also TB3 to TB2 using a Startech adapter. I also have the Apple adapter here for qualification with all TB interfaces , total crap shoot. I shelved it. Apple adapter should be reserved for Apple systems only IMO.

Your problem with the Quantum was most likely due to your use of the later.

I digress

yes it is clearly stated on Presonus website not to use Apple adapter (that unplugging everytime ting is a typical wrong adapter isssue). I use Startech and no problem here
Old 2nd December 2018
  #2828
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M Albazy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
I was using an ASRock Z370 gaming Itx.
It's got TB3
I also used an apple Thunderbolt 2/3 adapter.

I asked the tech support and they suggested I buy a different TB 2/3 converter.

I decided. Screw it. Best sell the quantum if it was giving me troubles. I had already spent some time troubleshooting a Keith McMillan interface. So my patience was running out. I just wanted something that worked. UAD Arrow fit the bill. But... That got switched out for an RME Babyface Pro.

The arrow is a good interface. But I'm not a fan of the UAD methods. I think they have great plugins. But even on sales they are too expensive.
Plus.... The plugins don't add and value to the interface. I think it would be cool if UAD had a subscription based format as well. Pay as you go with ownership would be a better model.
Until then... I'll pass. I have other plugins such as S-gear, blue cat, black rooster, etc that give me excellent results. Sorry. Got a bit off topic.
Your issue was the Apple adapter 100% it's a known issue with many other TB interfaces on Windows. And very few have reported any success with it on Windows. I'm using the StarTech adapter which just fine.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #2829
Gear Addict
 

Yeah. Oh well. The adapter was an extra 80€ so... It wasn't worth it to me. I wasn't to thrilled, had to buy a Tb3 cable, another adapter, and the quantum isn't bus powered. If it had been Tb3 and bus powered. It would still be here.
Old 3rd December 2018
  #2830
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Would anybody recommend buying a new ESI Maya44 eX, for a new Windows 10 setup? Trying to find a decent PCI-e setup, as I don't use hardware much at all anymore. The next step up would be the RME AIO, but I've read online about it having problems with hiss/static + it's a lot more expensive.

I see the Julia XTE on the front page, but not the Maya 44 eX. I have no idea if it's better or worse in the driver department & I cannot even find a Julia XTE card online.

thanks very much!
Old 6th December 2018
  #2831
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quick heads up,

Not having much fun on the test bench this week, 2 new interfaces, one USB2 , one TB, both are at the status of NRA : No Result Achievable.

I'll hold off any further details for the interim , as I have opened a dialog with one of the respective companies.

Stay tuned.

@ Peak09 , I haven't tested the ESI MAYA 44eX , but i did test the earlier 44e, results are in the Database.

All ESI are powered by the same IC chip/driver dev team and by right should share similar if not identical performance across the PCIe range, but I found significant variable between what was reported compared to delivered on the Maya 44e . Delivered latency was significantly higher , whereas the Julia XTe was very good the 44e was not on the same level.

Not sure if that applies to the newer 44eX.

You will find it very difficult to find a Julia XTe , as I believe all ESI PCIe cards are discontinued except the 44eX.

Old 6th December 2018
  #2832
Here for the gear
Don't look there. Last drivers for [email protected] were in year 2015, Maya in year 2016. I had [email protected] on Windows 7 and it never worked without crackles and other driver problems. Their forum was full with people having problems, and now there is no ESI forum at all. With RME there will never be any driver problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak09 View Post
Would anybody recommend buying a new ESI Maya44 eX, for a new Windows 10 setup? Trying to find a decent PCI-e setup, as I don't use hardware much at all anymore. The next step up would be the RME AIO, but I've read online about it having problems with hiss/static + it's a lot more expensive.

I see the Julia XTE on the front page, but not the Maya 44 eX. I have no idea if it's better or worse in the driver department & I cannot even find a Julia XTE card online.

thanks very much!
Old 6th December 2018
  #2833
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monkeyxx's Avatar
I had to use the Star Tech adapter for my Apollos. However for the Focusrite Clarett only the Apple TB2-3 adapter would work.

Haven't tried the Quantum on that PC yet.
Old 6th December 2018
  #2834
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I had to use the Star Tech adapter for my Apollos. However for the Focusrite Clarett only the Apple TB2-3 adapter would work.

Haven't tried the Quantum on that PC yet.
Just to be clear , the Clarett wouldn't work with the StarTech on PC ?

I tested on a native W10/TB2 ( yes its a unicorn system )

FWIW - I have been informed that the reports of the death of the Clarett TB line, were , hmmm , premature , as new stock has surfaced again locally.

Old 6th December 2018
  #2835
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Just to be clear , the Clarett wouldn't work with the StarTech on PC ?

I tested on a native W10/TB2 ( yes its a unicorn system )

FWIW - I have been informed that the reports of the death of the Clarett TB line, were , hmmm , premature , as new stock has surfaced again locally.

Yeah clarett is a great product, glad they got re-stocked.

I guess they got rid of the Thunderbolt 4Pre and 2Pre and those are USB only now.

Yes, I believe that the StarTech did not work with my 4Pre, 8Pre, or 8PreX, and the recommended device on the official Focusrite statement was to use the Apple one, which does work for me. I'm using a Gigabyte motherboard.

I updated the firmware on the 8Pre, to the TB3 update, beta I guess. then tried to use it with the old drivers, on a TB2 computer, I think I had to reinstall the drivers or something. I wish I understood better what was going on.

You can roll back the firmware but you need specific "secret" support from Focusrite to get the packages and the app. The app didn't work for me, something about the command line prompt wasn't "computing."

The guy I sold it to said his computer died, but focusrite firmly told him "the clarett didn't kill your computer" it was just a really weird transaction. It worked fine before I boxed it up.
Old 7th December 2018
  #2836
I actually did a demo of the M Audio M Track 8x4 today. made a livestream and edited it down to a video. Mostly dealing with using the thing in OBS here is a link to my review/demo.
YouTube
The interface seemed to solve a problem that I have been having with my old Fast Track Ultra 8R in my ASUS GL702ZC (Ryzen 7 1700 8 core laptop). Here it is shown to immediately require a buffer resize and nothing else. A quick fix compared to my FTU8R which goes to static and requires the entire DAW to be shut off, then the interface to be power cycled, then the DAW reopened.
The interface is run via USB C to the USB C port on the ASUS in this demo.
Old 7th December 2018
  #2837
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Line 6 Helix LT 2.70 firmware results on supplied driver vs ASIO4ALL.
"Measured" means "Calculated by Utilty"
Measured RTL (samples)/ Measured RTL ms/ Reported RTL (smpl)/ Reported RTL (ms)/ Driver Buffer / Sampling Frequency

Helix ASIO

0596 12ms 0604 13ms 064 48k
0996 20ms 1004 21ms 128 48k
1651 34ms 1660 35ms 256 48k


0986 10ms 1004 10ms 064 96k
1530 16ms 1548 16ms 128 96k
3428 36ms 2348 24ms 256 96k


Helix ASIO4ALL

559 12ms 192 04ms 064 48k
687 14ms 320 07ms 128 48k
943 20ms 576 12ms 256 48k


1041 11ms 192 02ms 064 96k
1169 12ms 320 03ms 128 96k
1423 15ms 576 06ms 256 96k

AD/DSP/DA Path latency is 1.8ms
Old 8th December 2018
  #2838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braindedzluney View Post
I actually did a demo of the M Audio M Track 8x4 today. made a livestream and edited it down to a video. Mostly dealing with using the thing in OBS here is a link to my review/demo.
YouTube
The interface seemed to solve a problem that I have been having with my old Fast Track Ultra 8R in my ASUS GL702ZC (Ryzen 7 1700 8 core laptop). Here it is shown to immediately require a buffer resize and nothing else. A quick fix compared to my FTU8R which goes to static and requires the entire DAW to be shut off, then the interface to be power cycled, then the DAW reopened.
The interface is run via USB C to the USB C port on the ASUS in this demo.
I bought this, and the 2nd day trial is more interesting by far, look for it it is the next video in my uploads, and created the day after this one. Though I warn you the raw unedited footage is full of verbal abuse to no one in particular the viewer, so don't take it personally. It is still uploading at 00:41 EST SAT DEC 8 2018. BUT, it should be uploaded within an hour or so. It is an upload of the live stream in which I discover that, at least in my case, in Windows 10 on the ASUS ROG GL702ZC, The M Track 8x4 can not be used via the provided cable from the box, but only using a 40cm Samsung T5 USB C to USB C drive cable (which is what I had used in THIS EARLIER UPLOADED video, to save the unopened cable status). THE NEXT DAY (Friday, yesterday), I tried the provided cable and you can clearly observe what I discovered in the 2:00:00 of live stream footage from that day.

Though my ASUS GL702ZC IS TYPICALLY a VERY BUGGY LAPTOP, which I have had several problems with, which could be part of the problem seen, It doesn't change the fact that you will still very clearly be able to observe the same difference in the two cables I did in the 2:00:00 test. In that video the first glitch from the provided cable is at about 5:20-5:50, and the cable replacement is after 1:33:00 about. The glitch happens 10 times between 5:00 and 1:30:00, and not at all after the provided cable is replaced with the Samsung T5 USB C to USB C cable.

Synopsis being that M Audio should include a Samsung T5 cable with this device. If you know anyone at M Audio, better tell them about this for me, and if you are from M Audio personally, make the check for product testing and reimbursement out to me at cash out.
Old 8th December 2018
  #2839
I did some more research on the cable issue described in the above post, searching for anyone who may be selling a good USB C to USB C cable and came upon this Verge article which talks about the USB C Cable problem, how none are standard and they are capable of burning out and destroying a laptop. Be careful out there Interface users. Turns out the thing shutting off with the OEM M Track cable is a good thing. While the Windows may not be getting the same power draw from the Samsung cable

I had figured it had to do with some RAM or Buffer issue and the length of the cables. However if you read the article about the USB C Cables it will probably put a little fear into you about ever substituting a non OEM cable in your devices. Reminds me of some phone charging troubles we have been having. I think M Audio has to look into this.

"The Verge" article for more details on unsafe USB C cables blowing laptops away: USB-C cables are playing Russian Roulette with your laptop - The Verge
and this list of USB C compliant cables:
USB-C Compliant Cables - Nexus 6p, Nexus 5x, and OnePlus 2 USB Cables
(and those aren't Type C to Type C cables)
Old 9th December 2018
  #2840
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jlaws's Avatar
I had a usb c cable destroy the charging port on my phone and it started heating up like crazy. Luckily I noticed it because I was using that cable in the car, otherwise it could have started a fire. Lesson learned: don't cheap out on USB c cables.
Old 10th December 2018
  #2841
We are drifting again guys, this is about low latency and driver performance, not about ports and adapters.

Old 10th December 2018
  #2842
Gear Maniac
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zolko View Post
Line 6 Helix LT 2.70 firmware results on supplied driver vs ASIO4ALL.
I thought the dedicated driver was supposed to be fastest. Strange that the Asio4All is faster that the dedicated driver
Old 10th December 2018
  #2843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
I thought the dedicated driver was supposed to be fastest. Strange that the Asio4All is faster that the dedicated driver
ASIO4ALL is overlay for WDM driver. At lower buffers it only reports nice figures while measured RTLs are the same.
Old 12th December 2018
  #2844
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Shameless Plug .

I have finally made it to FB with DAWbench , so those wanting to keep up while doing the SM thang , I'll be posting there regularly as well as here.

A Podcast is in the works , as well as a website refresh for 2019.

Old 12th December 2018
  #2845
Here for the gear
 

Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2gen
Athlon II X4 2.8GHz, 8GB RAM, Win7 64bit
RTL Utility output:
Code:
Device	                S.R.          Buffer	Measured RTL (ms)
Focusrite USB ASIO	44100		16	3.800
Focusrite USB ASIO	44100		24	4.160
Focusrite USB ASIO	44100		32	4.525
Focusrite USB ASIO	44100		48	7.141
Focusrite USB ASIO	44100		64	7.859
Focusrite USB ASIO	48000		16	3.678
Focusrite USB ASIO	48000		32	4.348
Focusrite USB ASIO	48000		64	7.678
Focusrite USB ASIO	96000		16	2.934
Focusrite USB ASIO	96000		32	3.268
Focusrite USB ASIO	96000		64	3.934
Old 14th December 2018
  #2846
Gear Maniac
Dumb question: is all this testing only for Windows which uses custom drivers? Seems like most devices use CoreAudio when used with a Mac? How do custom window drivers compare with Apple CoreAudio?
Old 14th December 2018
  #2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbdan View Post
Dumb question: is all this testing only for Windows which uses custom drivers? Seems like most devices use CoreAudio when used with a Mac? How do custom window drivers compare with Apple CoreAudio?
ASIO on Windows is a custom driver from the manufacturer (often written by a third-party). There are no in-box ASIO drivers.

There's ASIO4ALL which hits WASAPI/WDM under the covers, but that is not used in any of the tests here.

ASIO performance is good as it is a very low-level and thin driver model which allows DAWs to talk almost directly to the hardware. There is no other API stuck in between.

Pete
Old 15th December 2018
  #2848
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
ASIO on Windows is a custom driver from the manufacturer (often written by a third-party). There are no in-box ASIO drivers.

There's ASIO4ALL which hits WASAPI/WDM under the covers, but that is not used in any of the tests here.

ASIO performance is good as it is a very low-level and thin driver model which allows DAWs to talk almost directly to the hardware. There is no other API stuck in between.

Pete
Right, but i meant as a Mac user, is this relevant to me?

I ask because I was going to do a test and share with you all, but found that RTL Utility is Windows only.
Old 15th December 2018
  #2849
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbdan View Post
Right, but i meant as a Mac user, is this relevant to me?

I ask because I was going to do a test and share with you all, but found that RTL Utility is Windows only.
There's a Mac beta: RTL Utility Beta Releases
Old 15th December 2018
  #2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbdan View Post
Right, but i meant as a Mac user, is this relevant to me?

I ask because I was going to do a test and share with you all, but found that RTL Utility is Windows only.
Probably not. There are a lot of variables depending upon driver, chipset, connection method, etc.

That said, the gross differences are probably similar on macOS even if the individual minor differences don't quite line up the same way.

Pete
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