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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base Audio Interfaces
Old 1 week ago
  #2671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
Some decent RTLs for an interface in this price range. Would love to see Windows figures for this interface.
According to some tests, they're identical. And you can even set 20 samples in the ASIO driver setup (Logic only allows me to go down to 32, the RTL utilities 16 are only available there, from all I gather).

And yes, it's pretty decent, so if you can get away with nothing else but stereo and MIDI I/O (which usually is fine for me), it's a nice contender.
Oh, before I forget, there's been an ongoing SysEx stream on a virtual MIDI port used for the devices internal communication (a known issue), had to get rid of it with a systemwide MIDI filtering utility (so, no biggie, you just need to know it) - but for whatever reason, that stream stopped out of nowhere (which obviously was a nice surprise).

Fwiw, the TB version apparently performs yet a tad better, plus it has some automatic input level learn which I would like to have as well (very handy when switching guitars), but there's no TB on my machine.
Old 1 week ago
  #2672
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
I have posted results in this forum. Check out my imugr

Dallon426
I posted my results, here

Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :

Seems like RTL of the UAC-2 is slightly better on Windows than on OSX

Danny Bullo
Old 1 week ago
  #2673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullo View Post
Seems like RTL of the UAC-2 is slightly better on Windows than on OSX
Has been like it since almost decades by now.
So much for Apple and their superior "system embedded" Core Audio protocol.

Well, on a serious note: Core Audio does well, especially in case you have a device with no dedicated drivers. It also seems to be pretty efficient, at least when using Logic (I rarely get any crackles at 32 samples since years and used a whole plethora of interfaces). But when it comes to raw latency numbers and in case there's dedicated drivers, the Windows/ASIO versions often are a bit ahead.
Old 1 week ago
  #2674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
But when it comes to raw latency numbers and in case there's dedicated drivers, the Windows/ASIO versions often are a bit ahead.
Aye, the thing with Core audio is that it can be a great leveller. In times past and especially down the lower end of the market (well, still to some degree now) interfaces, where they were built out of stock parts and didn't maintain an expensive to manage driver team, Core audio being there, meant that pretty much any interface would see a decent performance level.

The one that sorted the men from the boys was often the Windows drivers because the lack of Core for us meant that if further development wasn't put in by the interface brand, we'd often be left with rather lacklustre generic controller drivers. Anyone who compared the off the peg DICE drivers vs the heavily rewritten ones a few firms maintained, will know where I'm coming from with that.

Historically, it was always a bit of a strength for Mac OS and one of the key factors of the "it just works" reputation.

Still, if a firm was able to put time and money into the development of more custom drivers, there are plenty of examples of ASIO drivers being tuned to a greater degree. Obviously, there is also plenty of examples of pissed off Windows users struggling with sub-standard ones too!
Old 1 week ago
  #2675
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Kaine View Post
The one that sorted the men from the boys was often the Windows drivers because the lack of Core for us meant that if further development wasn't put in by the interface brand, we'd often be left with rather lacklustre generic controller drivers.
Pretty much this.
But I think the event of ASIO4All leveled things out quite a bit. Sure, it's not good enough to cure severe problems such as drifting recording offsets - but then, CoreAudio can't do that, either. Having to use ASIO4All also often comes with some extra bits of CPU overhead, but back in the days when I was configuring quite some Windows machines for audio usage, it often turned out to work quite well, even with sub-standard hardware, I even used a laptop with its internal interface myself, the thing had a digital I/O (rare, but you'll see that on some machines) and I used a TC G-Force for ADDA conversion duties. The only problem being that there was no driver for the audio device - but ASIO4All allowed me to get along pretty well for a while, at least when using virtual instruments.
From what I remember, there's been even quite some folks reporting better figures using ASIO4All instead of the delivered ASIO driver. Would be interesting to know whether that is still the case here and there.
Old 1 week ago
  #2676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
According to some tests, they're identical. And you can even set 20 samples in the ASIO driver setup (Logic only allows me to go down to 32, the RTL utilities 16 are only available there, from all I gather).
You can set it to 24 samples and it still has lower latency than the CA version with 16 samples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
So much for Apple and their superior "system embedded" Core Audio protocol.

Well, on a serious note: Core Audio does well, especially in case you have a device with no dedicated drivers.
CoreAudio is certainly better than what Windows offers out of the box. Then again, ASIO offers great performance AND Direct Monitoring, which is a kick ass feature if implemented properly.

Quote:
It also seems to be pretty efficient, at least when using Logic (I rarely get any crackles at 32 samples since years and used a whole plethora of interfaces). But when it comes to raw latency numbers and in case there's dedicated drivers, the Windows/ASIO versions often are a bit ahead.
Logic uses hybrid buffers so it will always perform decent. So does any DAW with activated hybrid buffers. Recording a performance with armed/monitored tracks in a busy mix is the challenge for native software.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
From what I remember, there's been even quite some folks reporting better figures using ASIO4All instead of the delivered ASIO driver. Would be interesting to know whether that is still the case here and there.
ASIO4ALL is a decent solution where low budget interfaces mess up by either not delivering ASIO drivers or writing terrible ASIO drivers. ASIO4ALL may help those users through the current bad phase but the real solution would always be investing in something decent.

Oh well, just be glad you guys didn't spend your hard earned money on the over expensive EWS64XL like I did. I suspect ASIO4ALL would have simply overvolted that card to make me realize that I should have abandoned all hope from day one.
Old 1 week ago
  #2677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Oh well, just be glad you guys didn't spend your hard earned money on the over expensive EWS64XL like I did.
No, I'm NOT! Because I *owned* one of these as well, hah! Has been quite an expensive thing back then - and very promising. Just that they never even got the most basic things done. Varying recording offsets and all that. Bursts of noise while editing their "Ed!son" sampler, etc. Let alone any functioning ASIO driver.

Have you been on the mailing list back then? That was some fun, bashing the folks from Nettetal...
Old 1 week ago
  #2678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
No, I'm NOT! Because I *owned* one of these as well, hah! Has been quite an expensive thing back then - and very promising. Just that they never even got the most basic things done. Varying recording offsets and all that. Bursts of noise while editing their "Ed!son" sampler, etc. Let alone any functioning ASIO driver.

Have you been on the mailing list back then? That was some fun, bashing the folks from Nettetal...
In short: only got one day of sound off that sampler, after 2 weeks of hacking it finally worked as a regular interface. I wasn't on the list, but I regret not having returned the pos. I was a student back then, way too expensive. Anyway...data base topic...
Old 1 week ago
  #2679
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Oh well, just be glad you guys didn't spend your hard earned money on the over expensive EWS64XL like I did.
Ha , TerraTec ( or should that be TerrorTech !! ) , oh boy , you are bringing back some memories ( or is that nightmares ). Luckily I crossed my arms and simply refused to have anything to do with them.

I digress.

ASIO4All is something that I would only recommend being used on a laptop for playback from the internal audio device when the client is traveling and sans the usual ASIO interface. Who knows maybe someday MS will get WaveRT to the level of CoreAudio , who is that laughing in the back ?

O.K, where were we , oh yeh, I have received notice that the issue with the Focusrite USB driver / Win7 / Cubase will be addressed in the next driver release.

Old 1 week ago
  #2680
mp3
Lives for gear
 

So any bets on when RME is gonna release a smaller TB interface? I'll be upgrading my computer soon (currently have a 2012 MacBook Pro, most likely gonna get the new Mac Mini) and I want an RME, and I want thunderbolt, but the UFX+ is just plain too much interface for me. I hate paying for facilities I know I'll never use.

Can someone convince them to update the Babyface Pro with TB?
Old 1 week ago
  #2681
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
So any bets on when RME is gonna release a smaller TB interface? I'll be upgrading my computer soon (currently have a 2012 MacBook Pro, most likely gonna get the new Mac Mini) and I want an RME, and I want thunderbolt, but the UFX+ is just plain too much interface for me. I hate paying for facilities I know I'll never use.

Can someone convince them to update the Babyface Pro with TB?
Why should they do that? The Babyface is working great via USB and your computer should have a USB port, right?
Going USB would more or less mean to do an interface for Mac users only - and RME is not like that (which I think is a good idea).
Old 1 week ago
  #2682
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Why should they do that? The Babyface is working great via USB and your computer should have a USB port, right?
1. Future proofing. My current interface is FireWire and over a decade old. (And if new computers still carried FW ports then I may well have continued using it...) I’d like my next interface to last that long too so I’d rather buy one that has a connection protocol that’s on its way in instead of on its way out, adapters be damned...

2. The chance that it’ll perform better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Going USB would more or less mean to do an interface for Mac users only - and RME is not like that (which I think is a good idea).
(Assuming you meant to say ‘Going TB’) Then why would they have produced the UFX+? To what extent should the current state of Windows TB support dictate their product planning?
Old 1 week ago
  #2683
Gear Addict
 

FW still offers very good performance with new machines using a Texas Instruments XIO2213B or LSI/Agere FW643 card (better than many USB units). No immediate need for a new interface.
Old 1 week ago
  #2684
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
1. Future proofing. My current interface is FireWire and over a decade old. (And if new computers still carried FW ports then I may well have continued using it...) I’d like my next interface to last that long too so I’d rather buy one that has a connection protocol that’s on its way in instead of on its way out, adapters be damned...
USB should be every bit as future proof as TB. Add to this that it's most often backwards compatible. Without having to purchase horribly expensive adapter stuff.

Quote:
2. The chance that it’ll perform better...
RME has already proven that their USB interfaces perform as well (if not better) than almost all others. That includes a bunch of PCI interfaces (and TB isn't anything else).

Quote:
(Assuming you meant to say ‘Going TB’) Then why would they have produced the UFX+? To what extent should the current state of Windows TB support dictate their product planning?
The UFX+ features both TB and USB3. And I'm sure it was made with the Mac users in mind having no proper USB connections, so they added that.
And it's not about Windows' TB support. It's about what works for the largest amount of people. TB isn't.
Old 1 week ago
  #2685
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
FW still offers very good performance with new machines using a Texas Instruments XIO2213B or LSI/Agere FW643 card (better than many USB units). No immediate need for a new interface.
Firewire still being perfectly valid is not a popular refrain on this forum but your statement is absolutely true.
Old 1 week ago
  #2686
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
FW still offers very good performance with new machines using a Texas Instruments XIO2213B or LSI/Agere FW643 card (better than many USB units). No immediate need for a new interface.
And as I said I’d happily continue using mine if new Macs had FireWire ports.
Old 1 week ago
  #2687
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
USB should be every bit as future proof as TB. Add to this that it's most often backwards compatible. Without having to purchase horribly expensive adapter stuff.



RME has already proven that their USB interfaces perform as well (if not better) than almost all others. That includes a bunch of PCI interfaces (and TB isn't anything else).



The UFX+ features both TB and USB3. And I'm sure it was made with the Mac users in mind having no proper USB connections, so they added that.
And it's not about Windows' TB support. It's about what works for the largest amount of people. TB isn't.
You appear to be of the opinion that there’s no reason for them to do a TB babyface. You’re entitled to that (as I’m entitled to my differing opinion). That is not the same, however, as there being a reason not to. Especially given that, as you note, they’ve already solved the audience problem on their first TB interface.
Old 1 week ago
  #2688
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
You appear to be of the opinion that there’s no reason for them to do a TB babyface. You’re entitled to that (as I’m entitled to my differing opinion). That is not the same, however, as there being a reason not to. Especially given that, as you note, they’ve already solved the audience problem on their first TB interface.
I really fail to see the need for a TB Babyface. Given RMEs most excellent USB implementation, there's very little reasons for them to do a Babyface/TB.
So far, the only advance of TB seems to be the additional bandwidth. Which might be good to have on a machine such as the UFX+ and its 94 I/Os (even if RME themselves seem to think of USB3 doing the job as well). But for the vastly smaller amount of I/Os of the Babyface, USB (even USB2) is absolutely sufficient. Their super low RTL figures prove that.
Old 1 week ago
  #2689
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
And as I said I’d happily continue using mine if new Macs had FireWire ports.
For a mere 30-40 bucks your wishes could be satisfied.
Old 1 week ago
  #2690
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
For a mere 30-40 bucks your wishes could be satisfied.
At the moment I’m not aware of any tb3->fw adapter aside from the OWC thunderbolt 3 dock. I could cascade adapters (tb3->tb2->fw) to get the job done (assuming it does indeed get the job done...) but I’d rather just plunk that $60-80 (or $279 in the case of the OWC) into a new interface.
Old 1 week ago
  #2691
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
At the moment I’m not aware of any tb3->fw adapter aside from the OWC thunderbolt 3 dock. I could cascade adapters (tb3->tb2->fw) to get the job done (assuming it does indeed get the job done...) but I’d rather just plunk that $60-80 (or $279 in the case of the OWC) into a new interface.
I thought there must have been... but oh well - blame it on Apple and their ongoing attempts to kill *any* backwards compatibility. Or use USB.
Old 1 week ago
  #2692
Gear Maniac
 

I contacted RME about 6 months ago and asked them if they were going to have any tb3 interfaces. I was told no plans are in the works.
However, despite being told that. It might be a smart move for them to make a 4-6 analogue input TB3 input interface. Many people feel the Babyface isn't worth it because of the lack of analogue inputs. Yes you can have much more with adat. But that requires more gear.
So RME.... If you'd reading this how about a
Grand baby face? USB-C and TB3?
Old 1 week ago
  #2693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
However, despite being told that. It might be a smart move for them to make a 4-6 analogue input TB3 input interface.
Why would it have to be TB3? USB 2/3 is every bit as sufficient for the required data bandwidth, even if you go up to 192kHz.
And you can use it on literally any computer anyway.
Old 1 week ago
  #2694
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Why would it have to be TB3? USB 2/3 is every bit as sufficient for the required data bandwidth, even if you go up to 192kHz.
And you can use it on literally any computer anyway.
People are excited about TB3. Also it would appeal to Mac users and PC users. People in general would prefer TB3 interfaces nowadays. It is pretty clear that it will be developed more and more in the years to come. Also.... why not? Just adds and extra connector which is good in my book.
Old 1 week ago
  #2695
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
And as I said I’d happily continue using mine if new Macs had FireWire ports.
The Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter usually works just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg View Post
Firewire still being perfectly valid is not a popular refrain on this forum but your statement is absolutely true.
Whilst no longer very popular, many FW interfaces still offer better LLP than competing USB units.
Old 1 week ago
  #2696
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
People are excited about TB3. Also it would appeal to Mac users and PC users. People in general would prefer TB3 interfaces nowadays.
Do you have *any* evidence for that bold claim? I know Mac users are "excited" about TB because that'll leave one of their USB ports (a rare breed on Macs, especially on mobile ones, as we all know) untouched. But Windows users? Pretty much not so. On desktop workstations you can use PCIe and on laptops there's usually no need for anything but USB3, coming with the undeniable advance of being backwards compatible.

Quote:
It is pretty clear that it will be developed more and more in the years to come.
In Apple land, sure. So they can charge you another premium for further TB2/3/4/5 adapters.

Quote:
Just adds and extra connector which is good in my book.
True. That's why plenty of highly compatible USB ports are great. TB however is not needed in anyones everyday computing life, it's a niché thing. Apple is just trying to sell it to you as something oh-so-great. Which, all too apparently, worked quite well...
Old 1 week ago
  #2697
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post

True. That's why plenty of highly compatible USB ports are great. TB however is not needed in anyones everyday computing life, it's a niché thing. Apple is just trying to sell it to you as something oh-so-great. Which, all too apparently, worked quite well...
Wow, this brings back memories of Firewire. Will TB ever become mainstream? i think you just answered the question.
Old 1 week ago
  #2698
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrage View Post
Wow, this brings back memories of Firewire. Will TB ever become mainstream? i think you just answered the question.
Don't get me started on Apple and FW.
Apple: "Hey, FW is the bees knees and you just NEED it!"
Next generation of Macbooks had NO FW ports at all anymore - but they didn't add a further USB port, either, all they did was removing the FW port and charging you more money. Because, you know, less is more.

Edit: Sorry, I promise I'll try to stay on topic a bit more...
Old 1 week ago
  #2699
Gear Head
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
TB however is not needed in anyones everyday computing life, it's a niché thing.
I agree that you don't need many TB ports but you need one and that is for you're audio interface. I'm on pc and got one TB port and that is dedicated to my Presonus Quantum audio interface. Maybe a TB port is actually a pci port, but getting a pci port into a cable is a huge advantage when it comes to placing of the interface, it makes you're lives easier. And one other point you don't need to buy all those preamps and patchbays ports that you need when buying a pci audio interface. A TB port (and pci port) is much faster and better for audio than a usb port or a firewire port. On windows the most important thing is to find a stable TB driver. If a TB port is a niché thing then making music is a niché thing too
Old 1 week ago
  #2700
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Why would it have to be TB3? <snip>
Such an interface would not have to be TB3. That's beside the point. I'm sure there are products or services that don't exist that you'd like to see exist, and you may want those things whether or not you need them, and whether or not makes sense to others for you to want them or for those things to exist.

But with all due respect, why does anybody have to justify anything to you?
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