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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base
Old 4th August 2019
  #3391
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Wonderful stuff!

I mainly ask due to this page https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-u...Thunderbolt-3- which states



The StarTech adapter costs about $140 AUD while the Apple adapter cost me $69 AUD which I already thought was too expensive

I suppose they do answer the question there though, as I'm using a Gigabyte motherboard on a desktop PC.
get the apple adapter first (amazon?), test it, if it doesn't work: return it!
why should you have to pay something to apple that doesn't actually work??
Old 4th August 2019
  #3392
Gear Head
 

I have an Apollo TB3 that has low latency, around 8ms RTL. That is what Logic reports at 64 buffer size. The latency isn't noticeable but seems high for a TB3. That is one of the main reasons I stick with my Pro Tools HDX system which gives me (from what I've read) around .7 RTL which translates to zero perceptible latency while tracking. If I could find a system to at least match that I would drop Pro Tools HDX in a heart beat (I hate Avid with a passion....they can stick their subscription plan with their substandard updates up their asses). Anyone know of a system that comes close to HDX latency numbers?
Old 4th August 2019
  #3393
Here for the gear
 

Allright, feel like I need to update my interface-hunt. Did go for theMOTU 828ES, and boy am I happy!! For some reason the new interface is reporting better figures than my old RME hdspe + apogee ad/da! Havent had a chance to actually test it with any dedicated program other than Cubase 10 pro. But it's super stable @ 16 samples with my monster recording-template (a lot of plugins etc). And this is only by USB connection. Guess the thunderbolt will be slightly better.
Old 4th August 2019
  #3394
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Two little questions re the Quantem:

* Do you think that Presonus will continue to support it for a long time (like RME do) when it goes out of production and they release the next model?
Presonus do not develop their own drivers, they are dependent on 3rd parties, so the longevity of support will depend on their agreements with said 3rd parties.

Quote:
* Does it work well with the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 converter or do you need to pay more for the Startech adapter?
I would recommend the Startech over the Apple for the Quantum, but test and and see if it works. It will be evident very quickly if the Apple adapter doesn't play nice.

Old 5th August 2019
  #3395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Presonus do not develop their own drivers, they are dependent on 3rd parties, so the longevity of support will depend on their agreements with said 3rd parties.



I would recommend the Startech over the Apple for the Quantum, but test and and see if it works. It will be evident very quickly if the Apple adapter doesn't play nice.

Thanks for the reply
Old 5th August 2019
  #3396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason kalman View Post
I have an Apollo TB3 that has low latency, around 8ms RTL. That is what Logic reports at 64 buffer size. The latency isn't noticeable but seems high for a TB3. That is one of the main reasons I stick with my Pro Tools HDX system which gives me (from what I've read) around .7 RTL which translates to zero perceptible latency while tracking. If I could find a system to at least match that I would drop Pro Tools HDX in a heart beat (I hate Avid with a passion....they can stick their subscription plan with their substandard updates up their asses). Anyone know of a system that comes close to HDX latency numbers?
Apollo´s RTLs are around 8ms with 128 buffers/44,1 kHz. You should download TAFKAT´s RTL Utility for OSX and insert plugins within Console for proper testing.
Old 5th August 2019
  #3397
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Presonus do not develop their own drivers, they are dependent on 3rd parties, so the longevity of support will depend on their agreements with said 3rd parties.
Sure, and 99% of goods are made in China
but we are saved. Antelope is actually not developing presonus drivers...
(just saying..)
Old 5th August 2019
  #3398
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daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
but we are saved. Antelope is actually not developing presonus drivers...
(just saying..)
yepp seems like Antelope, Windows and Thunderbolt is a bad combination so far. On Windows sometimes less is more. That is why I selected Presonus Quantum. No dsp and fancy schmancy = Less chance for bad drivers
Old 5th August 2019
  #3399
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfor3st View Post
Allright, feel like I need to update my interface-hunt. Did go for theMOTU 828ES, and boy am I happy!! For some reason the new interface is reporting better figures than my old RME hdspe + apogee ad/da! Havent had a chance to actually test it with any dedicated program other than Cubase 10 pro. But it's super stable @ 16 samples with my monster recording-template (a lot of plugins etc). And this is only by USB connection. Guess the thunderbolt will be slightly better.
Thanks for the update. Mac or PC? I'd be curious about the 828ES on a PC via USB. Very few interfaces do both TB and USB and that's currently where my head is at considering TB is a no-go on my current PC but I'd like to also future proof.
Old 5th August 2019
  #3400
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Thanks for the update. Mac or PC? I'd be curious about the 828ES on a PC via USB. Very few interfaces do both TB and USB and that's currently where my head is at considering TB is a no-go on my current PC but I'd like to also future proof.
PC! That's my initial thought too. USB now and TB when I have the stuff. Read somewhere that AMD is pushing thunderbolt 3 with their third generation of Ryzen.. Who knows =)
Old 5th August 2019
  #3401
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
yepp seems like Antelope, Windows and Thunderbolt is a bad combination so far. On Windows sometimes less is more. That is why I selected Presonus Quantum. No dsp and fancy schmancy = Less chance for bad drivers
I was a loud voice, along with some others, calling Presonus to task over the Studio192 fiasco and awful VSTi performance due to crap RTL and their "nebulous" advertising of "near zero latency" stuff but when the Quantum units were released I gave Presonus credit where due. They are wonderful units at a good price point and everything the Studio192 should have been and more. And if you happen to be using Studio One DAW, the integration is superb. It just works.

Like Tafkat says, driver development is farmed out so it remains to be seen how long support lasts but Presonus has been decent in the past and their user base is growing in leaps and bounds due to Studio One so my gut feeling is not to worry about it.
Old 6th August 2019
  #3402
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
I was a loud voice, along with some others, calling Presonus to task over the Studio192 fiasco and awful VSTi performance due to crap RTL and their "nebulous" advertising of "near zero latency" stuff but when the Quantum units were released I gave Presonus credit where due. They are wonderful units at a good price point and everything the Studio192 should have been and more. And if you happen to be using Studio One DAW, the integration is superb. It just works.

Like Tafkat says, driver development is farmed out so it remains to be seen how long support lasts but Presonus has been decent in the past and their user base is growing in leaps and bounds due to Studio One so my gut feeling is not to worry about it.
That's why is so important constructive criticism from user experience

Otherwise, what else makes you think Presonus switched the 'nebulous marketing' for an actual product that actually performs well now?

Are you listening Antelope??

Now, I don't believe that the quantum will stop working with Studio One.. and surely Studio One won't get discontinued anytime soon..

what makes me think..

Antelope is actually the number one in releasing and DISCONTINUING products very quickly.. right??
Old 6th August 2019
  #3403
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
That's why is so important constructive criticism from user experience

Otherwise, what else makes you think Presonus switched the 'nebulous marketing' for an actual product that actually performs well now?

:
When the Studio 192 was first released the advertising copy glowed about "near zero latency" which implied using VST but what they were really talking about was direct monitoring. It was IMHO a bit deceptive. Somewhere along the way they dropped that description so they did the right thing.
Old 6th August 2019
  #3404
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Apollo´s RTLs are around 8ms with 128 buffers/44,1 kHz. You should download TAFKAT´s RTL Utility for OSX and insert plugins within Console for proper testing.
Thanks for the advice lllubi! I will give it a shot.
Old 7th August 2019
  #3405
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
Are you listening Antelope??
Can you take this ongoing agenda directly to the Antelope threads, and stop polluting this thread with this !!
Old 7th August 2019
  #3406
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Can you take this ongoing agenda directly to the Antelope threads, and stop polluting this thread with this !!
are you trying to censor my comments???
sorry for not following your agenda then!
I find quite funny that antelope audio actually thanks you personally for your measurements:
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/antelop...erbolt-driver/

let's be honest here...
and welcome to gearslutz mate!!

Last edited by pangea2003; 7th August 2019 at 03:28 PM..
Old 7th August 2019
  #3407
Gear Nut
 

motu 828

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfor3st View Post
Allright, feel like I need to update my interface-hunt. Did go for theMOTU 828ES, and boy am I happy!! For some reason the new interface is reporting better figures than my old RME hdspe + apogee ad/da! Havent had a chance to actually test it with any dedicated program other than Cubase 10 pro. But it's super stable @ 16 samples with my monster recording-template (a lot of plugins etc). And this is only by USB connection. Guess the thunderbolt will be slightly better.
Thanks for sharing this I'm interested in the 828es, or maybe the 828x. Motu seems to have good support and a $99 fixed repair price for out of warranty, I'm in process of asking them a little more about that in general and with legacy units to try to see how serious they are about it. But the numbers for the 828 Mk3 published here don't look so great to me, but that is the generation prior to the ultralite mk4, the 828es, etc, and a different driver, so of course I'm wishing we had same testing methodology numbers to compare. But any more info we can get about the latest gen would be great !

Last edited by el touristo; 7th August 2019 at 07:47 PM..
Old 7th August 2019
  #3408
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
are you trying to censor my comments???
sorry for not following your agenda then!
I am asking you to stop polluting this thread with your consistent sniping.

My agenda is to report the LLP performance of audio interfaces objectively, and to keep the information on this thread relevant.

We get it, you have an issue with Antelope , take it to them.

Quote:
I find quite funny that antelope audio actually thanks you personally for your measurements:

Let's be honest here...
As much as you would like to continue to imply some bias, the reality is that if there was some underlying bias, my involvement would have not been made public. I clearly stated I was testing for them under BETA.

Most developers use my tools for measurement , more than a few have contacted me directly over the years to assist in testing , the Database is used as a comparative reference.

If you have an issue because I was actually thanked for testing a driver and giving developers some feedback to help them improve it , there is a longer list , and you have missed the point of what I am actually doing here.

Enjoy your Quantum

Last edited by TAFKAT; 8th August 2019 at 05:10 AM..
Old 8th August 2019
  #3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
are you trying to censor my comments???
No, he kindly asks you to stay on topic.
This thread is about latency and performance of interface drivers. Nothing else.
Old 8th August 2019
  #3410
Lives for gear
There seems to be a suitably Antelope-specific gripe-basket for unhappy users in this Music Computers thread:Antelope Audio, Constant Issues?
Old 8th August 2019
  #3411
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfor3st View Post
Allright, feel like I need to update my interface-hunt. Did go for theMOTU 828ES, and boy am I happy!! For some reason the new interface is reporting better figures than my old RME hdspe + apogee ad/da! Havent had a chance to actually test it with any dedicated program other than Cubase 10 pro. But it's super stable @ 16 samples with my monster recording-template (a lot of plugins etc). And this is only by USB connection. Guess the thunderbolt will be slightly better.
Are you on mac or win? Have you run RTL utility on the 828es? Thanks!
Old 9th August 2019
  #3412
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Gomjab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by el touristo View Post
Are you on mac or win? Have you run RTL utility on the 828es? Thanks!
For Mac RTL results for the 828es see my prior post in this thread.

Old 9th August 2019
  #3413
Here for the gear
 

Hi! Im trying to use RTL utility to compare my old (Steinberg UR22) and new (IK Multimedia AXE I/O) interfaces. I'm getting some results that would kinda confirm what i was afraid of with the AXE I/O but before taking the leap to call these results reliable i need some help: on lower buffer sizes on the AXE I/O i get a weird error message on RTL utility (see pic 1.)
I wonder if its trying to tell me something important

At the moment it would seem like the AXE I/O isn't performing particularly well and this impression is further amplified by my tests with old projects. In most cases i even have to up the buffer size from the one i used with UR22 to not get clicks and pops and all the bad stuff Any thoughts? Anyone tested the AXE I/O before?
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-error.png   Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-ur22_latency.png   Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-axe_io_latency.png  
Old 10th August 2019
  #3414
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helbob View Post
Hi! Im trying to use RTL utility to compare my old (Steinberg UR22) and new (IK Multimedia AXE I/O) interfaces. I'm getting some results that would kinda confirm what i was afraid of with the AXE I/O but before taking the leap to call these results reliable i need some help: on lower buffer sizes on the AXE I/O i get a weird error message on RTL utility (see pic 1.)
I wonder if its trying to tell me something important
The screenshot is scrambled, but I'll take a guess from the posted results that it is reporting there is a large variance between reported and measured results.

Its indicating the driver for the device is not reliably reporting the I/O and RTL to the DAW, which in itself could cause issues with latency compensation.

Quote:
[At the moment it would seem like the AXE I/O isn't performing particularly well and this impression is further amplified by my tests with old projects. In most cases i even have to up the buffer size from the one i used with UR22 to not get clicks and pops and all the bad stuff Any thoughts? Anyone tested the AXE I/O before?
Indicating the efficiency of the driver at the respective latencies, despite being higher, is less than the UR22.


Old 11th August 2019
  #3415
Here for the gear
 

Has anybody measured Expert Sleepers ES-8 performance?
Old 11th August 2019
  #3416
vns
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helbob View Post
Hi! Im trying to use RTL utility to compare my old (Steinberg UR22) and new (IK Multimedia AXE I/O) interfaces. I'm getting some results that would kinda confirm what i was afraid of with the AXE I/O but before taking the leap to call these results reliable i need some help: on lower buffer sizes on the AXE I/O i get a weird error message on RTL utility (see pic 1.)
I wonder if its trying to tell me something important

At the moment it would seem like the AXE I/O isn't performing particularly well and this impression is further amplified by my tests with old projects. In most cases i even have to up the buffer size from the one i used with UR22 to not get clicks and pops and all the bad stuff Any thoughts? Anyone tested the AXE I/O before?
I saw some figures in a spanish forum, and I would say that your findings is what I would expect from that unit.

It is a shame, 2019 and we still having issues with latency in new models.
Old 11th August 2019
  #3417
Aef
Here for the gear
latency perdormance Marian PCIe A3 interface

Is there any information on the latency performance of the Marian A3 PCIe ineterface? The little I was able to find sounds quite promising, comparable maybe to RME PCIe cards, but quit a bit more affordable.
Old 11th August 2019
  #3418
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aef View Post
Is there any information on the latency performance of the Marian A3 PCIe ineterface? The little I was able to find sounds quite promising, comparable maybe to RME PCIe cards, but quit a bit more affordable.
IME, that applies. It's some time, when I tried Marian interface and yes, it was roughly at ballpark of my RME AIO.
I don't have any exact performance benchmarking with instance counts like Vin, because I often come to some gear, when doing setup, helping out or troubleshooting.. so it's almost always at different rig. And I don't have any common baseline PC DAW, where I could systematically try all interfaces.
Despite all of that, Marian seemed to perform well to me and it was stable also at short buffers with low overhead for audio streaming, which indicates well executed DMA.

Of course exact reported latency of such ADAT card doesn't make much sense itself, unless whole setup is the same, because there will be always influence of used external converter.

Michal
Old 12th August 2019
  #3419
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Of course exact reported latency of such ADAT card doesn't make much sense itself, unless whole setup is the same, because there will be always influence of used external converter.
Michal
That is why I always try to test both analog and digital connections of interfaces if they have both.
Old 12th August 2019
  #3420
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aef View Post
Is there any information on the latency performance of the Marian A3 PCIe ineterface? The little I was able to find sounds quite promising, comparable maybe to RME PCIe cards, but quit a bit more affordable.
Unfortunately the Marian cards are no longer available locally, so I can't do any comparative testing. I have had a note from a colleague recently that has had one on the bench for some qualification and testing. Measured I/O and RTL was promising, but I am not in the position to comment further re the specific details or the comparative performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Of course exact reported latency of such ADAT card doesn't make much sense itself, unless whole setup is the same, because there will be always influence of used external converter.
Thats a given , the HDSPe AES and the Lynx AES AES16e that are at the top of the table were tested with their respective matching AD/DA.

That will influence the measured RTL with the included converter latency, but the actual driver efficiency and performance at respective buffer settings will still be relevant , with/without AD/DA.

A note would need to be made re the respective 3rd party converter latency, seeing its not from the same manufacturer

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