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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base
Old 14th July 2019
  #3361
Lives for gear
 

[QUOTE=Dallon426;14093570]Or just turn the volume knob down......[/QUOTE
Yeah, but then you or someone else has to turn it back up again, preferably at the last volume you or someone else had it, which is a "brainer" compared to a "no-brainer." You may also have to turn off the software monitor button -- and turn it back on for the next take. And depending on the rest of your rig and what stage of the recording process you're in, you may still get feedback. If you're tracking all day long, it all adds up.
Old 14th July 2019
  #3362
[QUOTE=troggg;14094714]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
Or just turn the volume knob down......[/QUOTE
Yeah, but then you or someone else has to turn it back up again, preferably at the last volume you or someone else had it, which is a "brainer" compared to a "no-brainer." You may also have to turn off the software monitor button -- and turn it back on for the next take. And depending on the rest of your rig and what stage of the recording process you're in, you may still get feedback. If you're tracking all day long, it all adds up.
Then.. depending on the software create a hotkey to turn monitor on or off. It is a very simple fix. Moving on, sorry to derail this.

No new interfaces being tested here. I still think the best interfaces I have come across (for portability and stability) are RME Babyface Pro, UAD Arrow, and Apogee Duet (Latest version)

So if you come across this thread and are reading up to here. I highly suggest those interfaces if you only need a couple of inputs. RME of course takes the cake because of the ADAT input and Stable drivers. I never had one single issue with windows 10 and RME. I have had a couple hiccups with the UAD and Apogee. But, they are still fantastic interfaces!
Old 15th July 2019
  #3363
Gear Maniac
 

Hi. Does anyone have SPL Crimson 3 RTL latency specs on windows 10?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3364
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Hey All,

Just tidying up of the back end, these updated charts should have been posted in January , but blink and we are now almost in June.

LLP Database Update: May 2019 :





Not a lot of updates the last year, but here is the summary of the additions.

Antelope DISCRETE 8 : Results speak for themselves, I/O and RTL at respective latencies is on par to RME's TB offering , efficiency is again pretty much identical. Thats no small feat and I commend the Antelope Team for delivering on the promise, very impressive.

Unit has buffer settings down to 8 samples, but I focused on latency settings of 032 and above to maintain consistency with the database, and also those respective and preferred working latencies that are more viable and have workable efficiency.

A race to the bottom re latency is good to a point, but if its at the expense of viability and efficiency, then its losing focus of the target goal. Driver needs a few dots connected regards WDM capability under TB, which has yet to be finalized as of date of writing this summary

I have posted the USB2 results as well, which is the Thesycon V4 driver under the skin, near identical performance to other offerings using the same base driver ( i.e Audient ) , same quirk with identical listed playback latency for 032/064 with slightly differing results ? , most like a kernel/safety buffer variance. Nothing much to report , same ole same ole. The variance between the TB and USB performance is quite significant , which was not unexpected.

Lynx Aurora LT-TB : The Lynx Unit performed pretty much as I expected once I resolved the initial gremlins. Very good I/O and RTL, with good efficiency and stability at the respective buffer settings, that we have come to expect from Lynx over the years. Not overly surprising to be honest with their experience of the PCIe products that the technology is derived.


Last 12 Months in Review : Things seem to be slowing down regards new units that are focusing on better LLP , most Thunderbolt devices have delivered on the premise of equaling PCIe , USB2/3 performance is still dominated largely by RME , while most others are dependent on Thesycon shuffling the deck chairs. Ethernet protocols like Dante and AVB are proving themselves viable solutions in live and non critical LLP environments, with a new comer promising to shake that area up, but verdict is still out.

I do have to mention the biggest non show being the insanely overhyped and continually absent Slate unit , which was supposed to have rewritten the book on LLP with its so called proprietary chip ( 20 year old ESI chip ) and game changing cross platform performance. Almost 2 1/2 years after the ShamWow product launch, we are yet to see a final Windows drivers and no one can manage to spend 5 minutes to test and upload a complete RTL log even on the final OSX driver.

I'll let you all form your own conclusions, but I believe the days of vapourware and marketing on hyperbole has long passed.

Thats it for now, I'll be back when I have some fresh interface results to share.

And for those wondering, the new DAWbench website is still in the works, and the DAWbench Radio Show podcast is still on and actually not too far away.

Well, after researching and reading about the antelope discrete I don't quite understand how you can compare it as good as RME??
and what gremlins you had with the Lynx??

It's really clear after reading user experiences on the antelope's thread that the discrete interfaces are full of bugs and they don't even work with many computers.

The interface is 'in development'?
Is that a funny way of saying that the antelope discrete is a beta interface perhaps??

I really thought this thread was not biased from endorsements..

Just my 'fair user comment'...

The Quantum should be up on that list perhaps (perhaps)?

thanks!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3365
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
Well, after researching and reading about the antelope discrete I don't quite understand how you can compare it as good as RME??
and what gremlins you had with the Lynx??

It's really clear after reading user experiences on the antelope's thread that the discrete interfaces are full of bugs and they don't even work with many computers.

The interface is 'in development'?
Is that a funny way of saying that the antelope discrete is a beta interface perhaps??

I really thought this thread was not biased from endorsements..

Just my 'fair user comment'...

The Quantum should be up on that list perhaps (perhaps)?

thanks!
The idea of Vin's chart is different, essentially only criteria for score there is composite results from common latency performance tests at reference system under controlled conditions.

Basically, when Vin is able to get the interface and there isn't any technical issue preventing him to do those tests.. He will do them and calculate scores for table.
It's not like some generic review score or shopping advise in magazine, where can be other things.. like reliability, compatibility, ease of use, some subjective audio I/O performance, comparison of contenders at given price levels etc.
But you will hardly find nearly as accurate benchmark for comparative latency performance like in this chart.

So in this sense, it's not possible, that something should be up or down in the list based on some subjective criteria.. also it's not general recommendation, what to purchase (unfortunately lot of people goes here for some generic thoughts, shopping advice and just clutter this discussion.. instead of starting own thread with description of what they need).

Michal
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3366
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
Wow the results of the Antelope Discrete 8 TB are very impressive! I've been looking to change to a Presonus Quantum but now the Antelope Discrete 8 has really caught my attention!

Last edited by dickiefunk; 4 weeks ago at 10:44 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3367
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Wow the results of the Antelope Discrete 8 TB are very impressive! I've been looking to change to a Presonus Quantum but now the Antelope Discrete 8 has really caught my attention!
At your peril, brother. I’d read some user reviews before you pull the trigger.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3368
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
The idea of Vin's chart is different, essentially only criteria for score there is composite results from common latency performance tests at reference system under controlled conditions.

Basically, when Vin is able to get the interface and there isn't any technical issue preventing him to do those tests.. He will do them and calculate scores for table.
It's not like some generic review score or shopping advise in magazine, where can be other things.. like reliability, compatibility, ease of use, some subjective audio I/O performance, comparison of contenders at given price levels etc.
But you will hardly find nearly as accurate benchmark for comparative latency performance like in this chart.

So in this sense, it's not possible, that something should be up or down in the list based on some subjective criteria.. also it's not general recommendation, what to purchase (unfortunately lot of people goes here for some generic thoughts, shopping advice and just clutter this discussion.. instead of starting own thread with description of what they need).

Michal
User experiences are high and first on my list
why?
because my own experience has thought me no to trust manufacturer's marketing and product promotion, who also use this forum for the exact same thing!!
I encourage people to read the reviews and experiences from many users on antelope's forum about the antelope discrete interface and judge for yourself
2 years since the interface came in to production and still doesn't work!

kudos
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3369
Gear Addict
 
highvoltage's Avatar
Maybe slightly off topic, but:

I bought a PCI-e to PCI converter, and works flawlessly with an old RME HDSP 9652. Same Dawbench results (even better):

RME HDSP 9652 working perfectly with PCI-e to PCI converter
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3370
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
Well, after researching and reading about the antelope discrete I don't quite understand how you can compare it as good as RME??
and what gremlins you had with the Lynx??
I only report on driver performance as its delivered in my set testing environment !

As noted on the Lynx initial report , I had performance issues which were resolved with some firmware and driver updates !

Quote:
It's really clear after reading user experiences on the antelope's thread that the discrete interfaces are full of bugs and they don't even work with many computers.
I don't and can't report on overall end user experience in respect to compatibility , thats specific to end user system environments that I could not possibly even begin to comment on. Interface worked on numerous TB environments on my test bench.

Quote:
The interface is 'in development'?
Is that a funny way of saying that the antelope discrete is a beta interface perhaps??
I clearly stated the driver I tested was BETA on the initial post , drivers are always in development , I noted the WDM aspect was still to be finalised !

Quote:
I really thought this thread was not biased from endorsements..
?

Where have I shown bias or made any endorsement !

Quote:
The Quantum should be up on that list perhaps (perhaps)?
The Quantum is exactly where its meant to be regards delivered performance in context against the other tested interfaces.

With that out of the way.

Why did you need to quote the whole post , it just clogs up the thread constantly having the charts unnecessarily repeated.

Clean it up please.

Dickiefunk, can you do that as well please.


Old 4 weeks ago
  #3371
Here for the gear
 

motu 8pre-es

Tried to search this humongous database to see if I could find any questions/answers about Motu 8PRE-es interface regarding latency.

My current setup is RME raydat with apogee x AD/DA. But my home situation with 3 teenagers is forcing me to be a bit more mobile, so I'm selling my rig to get something I can use with comparable result with PC laptop.

my options are:

Quantum
Discrete 8 synergy core (aware of the problems)
Motu 8pre-es

Cant find any test-results for the Motu though. Does any of you know how it compare to ex Quantum?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3372
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfor3st View Post
Tried to search this humongous database to see if I could find any questions/answers about Motu 8PRE-es interface regarding latency.

My current setup is RME raydat with apogee x AD/DA. But my home situation with 3 teenagers is forcing me to be a bit more mobile, so I'm selling my rig to get something I can use with comparable result with PC laptop.

my options are:

Quantum
Discrete 8 synergy core (aware of the problems)
Motu 8pre-es

Cant find any test-results for the Motu though. Does any of you know how it compare to ex Quantum?
I did a comparison of the Quantum to the 828es. I imagine the 8pre-es is very similar as they are the same generation and probably share an underlying architecture. Look at my other posts in this thread and you’ll find my screen shots running the RTL utility.

Pure speculation on my part but it’s all I can offer as I don’t own the 8pre-es.

Hopefully someone with one in hand will reply.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #3373
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_fun View Post
Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. I'm just an amateur musician, I normally loop guitar and bass using Ableton Live 10 on the spot and play with a drummer, a singer, and sometimes a sax player.

I have a very basic interface and decided to buy a new one. I'm debating between a UA Apollo Twin MKii and an RME Babyface Pro. After looking at the DAWbench I realize that these two interfaces have very similar performances in terms of latency.


What I find really attractive of the UA Apollo are the UAD plugins, the guitar and bass amp simulators sound incredibly well. I understand that many in this forum dislike the business model of UA, but to me it is not an issue since I'm not planning on getting hundreds of plugins, just a couple of good amp simulators.

On the other hand, I've read a lot of people that swear by RME's products. I am well aware that their drivers are extremely solid and very reliable for live performances. Nevertheless, they do not offer the kind of "one-stop solution" offered by the UA Apollo with regards to the UAD plugins that could be processed by the interface.

What is your opinion about these two interfaces? Is one of them far superior than the other one in terms of performance when live looping in Ableton Live? I don't plan on running dozens of tracks or effects. Could I route all tracks, including an electric drummer, through the interface and monitor through the DAW without annoying levels of latency?

Thanks for your help!
Hi music_fun,

Keep in mind the purpose of the devices: the UA Apollo boxes are designed around direct input guitar monitored through the interface while one of their modeling plugins is running on the SHARC DSP chip in it. The preamps in it around designed for this and otherwise sound worse than the competition. They also do not have basic stuff like an ADAT or MIDI on the desktop ones for your drummer.

The RME Babyface Pro is just a better product with better pres and more connectivity (ADAT expansion and MIDI) so if you’re not direct inputting a guitar through a UAD plugin, it’s the way to go. Competitors would be MOTU Ultralite (cheaper, different sound) and slower stuff with better sound you don’t need.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3374
Here for the gear
 

TAFKAT I can't find RTL numbers of babyface pro

TAFKAT Can you please share RTL numbers of the babyface pro?
p.s Your site is not updated with your latest results.
Thank you
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3375
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfor3st View Post
Tried to search this humongous database to see if I could find any questions/answers about Motu 8PRE-es interface regarding latency.

My current setup is RME raydat with apogee x AD/DA. But my home situation with 3 teenagers is forcing me to be a bit more mobile, so I'm selling my rig to get something I can use with comparable result with PC laptop.

my options are:

Quantum
Discrete 8 synergy core (aware of the problems)
Motu 8pre-es

Cant find any test-results for the Motu though. Does any of you know how it compare to ex Quantum?
EDIT: Checked out that MOTU 8 channel pre myself. I'd go for that one. Sounded better to me.

I’d say just go for the MOTU or Presonus depending on the sound you like better. Presonus only has decent performance over Thunderbolt though. Maybe keep your Apogee for the pres over ADAT if it still works and is one of the older models before Apple paid them to make GarageBand and Logic dongles. Avoid Antelope at all costs. Keep in mind that MOTU write their own drivers and Presonus do not so MOTU are more likely to fix future problems.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3376
Lives for gear
 
stella645's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yigalnavon View Post
TAFKAT Can you please share RTL numbers of the babyface pro?
p.s Your site is not updated with your latest results.
Thank you
In the first post in thread look for a link to the latest results.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3377
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stella645 View Post
In the first post in thread look for a link to the latest results.
I did look, but there is no metric info of the babyface pro (i need RTL NOT LLP)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3378
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yigalnavon View Post
I did look, but there is no metric info of the babyface pro (i need RTL NOT LLP)
Looks like GS is knocking the main graph off being displayed again :-(

Must be tripping over a size limitation.

I'll message the admins.

Direct Link : Here

FWIW - I do need to update the website with a later report , but was holding off for it to be on the new site. I am playing octopus at the moment, and trying to learn WordPress for the new site is killing me, LOL.


Old 4 weeks ago
  #3379
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Looks like GS is knocking the main graph off being displayed again :-(

Must be tripping over a size limitation.

I'll message the admins.

Direct Link : Here

FWIW - I do need to update the website with a later report , but was holding off for it to be on the new site. I am playing octopus at the moment, and trying to learn WordPress for the new site is killing me, LOL.


Thank you !!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3380
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Wow the results of the Antelope Discrete 8 TB are very impressive! I've been looking to change to a Presonus Quantum but now the Antelope Discrete 8 has really caught my attention!
I flipped my Discrete for a Quantum. The Discrete sounded better/warmer/nice color. But it was a nightmare, glitchy, annoying, work flow killer (though progressively getting better).

The quantum is MUCH faster and zero fuss! look at the RTL calculations, Quantum is the fastest one on the chart. In my personal experience it is even faster than RTL displays, because I can run a lower buffer with out artifacts with the quantum than I could with Discrete.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3381
Gear Addict
 
MontyMakesMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esla View Post
The quantum is MUCH faster and zero fuss! look at the RTL calculations, Quantum is the fastest one on the chart.
+1
And there are plenty of sound comparisons here on gs too. The quantum sounds fantastic and if you need the lowest latency with turnkey functionality, YES YES YES. Absolutely loving mine. Thanks to this thread for helping me land on it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3382
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quantum conversion is up there with any of the best. It is only really bested by super high dollar or standalone converter units. I use a Topping DX7S for my DAC. But the Quantum is very close, the main difference is heard in the transient response. The Topping is a little smoother and easier to listen to for long periods.

As an interface I have no complaints, other than the lack of direct monitoring. I had to set up a hardware mixer feed for my vocal headphone 0 ms mix.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3383
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
I have switched to the Quantum too.
I really think this is the fastest interface at this current comment.
I have never owned an interface as fast as this one.
In my experience, Presonus has released the best fastest audio driver for windows.
Now, the sound of the converters and preamps is average.
Nothing special on this department..
And at this price tag there are a few better choices out there.
Although, at the expense of not getting a driver as good as this one, which is crucial for producing music with a computer..
cheers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3384
Lives for gear
Two little questions re the Quantem:

* Do you think that Presonus will continue to support it for a long time (like RME do) when it goes out of production and they release the next model?
* Does it work well with the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 converter or do you need to pay more for the Startech adapter?

Asking as a Clarett owner who is considering their next upgrade soon. I'm on a PC with the Gigabyte Thunderbolt AIC and have already purchased the Apple adapter which works perfectly with the Clarett.

Huge thanks
Fotis
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3385
Gear Head
 
pangea2003's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Two little questions re the Quantem:

* Do you think that Presonus will continue to support it for a long time (like RME do) when it goes out of production and they release the next model?
* Does it work well with the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 converter or do you need to pay more for the Startech adapter?

Asking as a Clarett owner who is considering their next upgrade soon. I'm on a PC with the Gigabyte Thunderbolt AIC and have already purchased the Apple adapter which works perfectly with the Clarett.

Huge thanks
Fotis
As far as I know Presonus is been taking care to marry software and hardware very well to all their products.
Something that make them quite apart from other companies.
In matter of fact, is amazing how well the Quantum works with Studio One.
The interface is fully integrated in their DAW and you almost don't have to set Preferences because you control the Quantum directly within Studio One (very neat).
as i said, this thunderbolt driver is phenomenal
if you have a fast processor in your computer you can then go as low as 16 samples.. it's quite remarkable

in regards to the thunderbolt adapter, i might say that it all depends of the motherboard of your pc
i got the quantum connected to a NUC Hades and i have both adapters (startech and apple)
with my computer the quantum works perfectly with both adapters and apple thunderbolt cable
but send an email to presonus and check with them too!

cheers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3386
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
As far as I know Presonus is been taking care to marry software and hardware very well to all their products.
Something that make them quite apart from other companies.
In matter of fact, is amazing how well the Quantum works with Studio One.
The interface is fully integrated in their DAW and you almost don't have to set Preferences because you control the Quantum directly within Studio One (very neat).
as i said, this thunderbolt driver is phenomenal
if you have a fast processor in your computer you can then go as low as 16 samples.. it's quite remarkable

in regards to the thunderbolt adapter, i might say that it all depends of the motherboard of your pc
i got the quantum connected to a NUC Hades and i have both adapters (startech and apple)
with my computer the quantum works perfectly with both adapters and apple thunderbolt cable
but send an email to presonus and check with them too!

cheers
Thank you so much for the reply
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3387
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Two little questions re the Quantem:

* Do you think that Presonus will continue to support it for a long time (like RME do) when it goes out of production and they release the next model?
* Does it work well with the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 converter or do you need to pay more for the Startech adapter?

Asking as a Clarett owner who is considering their next upgrade soon. I'm on a PC with the Gigabyte Thunderbolt AIC and have already purchased the Apple adapter which works perfectly with the Clarett.

Huge thanks
Fotis
I had to switch to using the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter after replacing my old iMac with an iMac Pro a year ago. The Quantum worked just the same using the Apple adapter on my system.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #3388
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomjab View Post
I had to switch to using the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter after replacing my old iMac with an iMac Pro a year ago. The Quantum worked just the same using the Apple adapter on my system.

Wonderful stuff!

I mainly ask due to this page https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-u...Thunderbolt-3- which states

Quote:
We do not recommend using the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter on a PC Desktop / Laptop as it may not work.

In our tests using a Gigabyte Motherboard with USB-C, the Apple Adapter worked. However using a late model Dell XPS 13 laptop, the Apple adapter did not work. In both cases, the StarTech Adapter worked.
The StarTech adapter costs about $140 AUD while the Apple adapter cost me $69 AUD which I already thought was too expensive

I suppose they do answer the question there though, as I'm using a Gigabyte motherboard on a desktop PC.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3389
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Wonderful stuff!

I mainly ask due to this page https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-u...Thunderbolt-3- which states



The StarTech adapter costs about $140 AUD while the Apple adapter cost me $69 AUD which I already thought was too expensive

I suppose they do answer the question there though, as I'm using a Gigabyte motherboard on a desktop PC.
I can’t help you on the PC side. I could see where it could be an issue as it wouldn’t surprise me if Apple only cares about their adapter working with their computers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3390
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangea2003 View Post
As far as I know Presonus is been taking care to marry software and hardware very well to all their products.
Something that make them quite apart from other companies.
Steinberg does exactly the same thing.
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