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Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base
Old 8th July 2019
  #3331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Kaine View Post
I had one up and running last week, so it definitely works fine. Didn't get a chance to pull benches at the time through.
I observed one in action, at NAMM, albeit on the Mac side. It behaved perfectly poised for two hours as onlookers requested all sorts of tasks from the demonstrator. I've also wondered about the latency -- you'd like to think between Steinberg, Yamaha, and Neve they've figured some things out, especially at the hefty price point ...

Then again, read their press release:

"When we unveiled the AXR4 Thunderbolt 2 audio interface in January, it made big waves at the NAMM show in LA. The downside however, it was only compatible with macOS systems. Since then we have been working on developing a driver for Windows, and we are now happy to say: it's here!"

Um, anyone think it would take RME six months to write a Windows driver? Just what was so vexing?
Old 8th July 2019
  #3332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg View Post
Just what was so vexing?
RME = some pretty serious time-proven skills and experience with windows driver development and workarounds for typical massive microsoft beartraps (from what I can gather)

The rest = trying to release products out the door as quick as possible to grab the easiest chunk of market, ie mac... once the money rolls in they invest in pushing devices onto the windows platform... or by the time they get round to it with beta/alpha drivers, the product is end-of-life and they've moved onto the next big 'money' making device and the above cycle repeats...

One would expect better from the likes of Steinberg to be frank... with their huge infrastructure and whatnot... If I was to have a guess, the majority home studios are running off mac laptops these days, and Microsoft just doesn't make it easy for all the hardware manufacturers, especially considering all their updates generally break something here and there, dont forget they broke DTS 5.1 and took nearly 7 months was it? to fix? a few releases back.

Point being, I blame microsoft first. Hardware manufacturers second for not investing in the brightest driver gurus, no disrespect to anyone, but driver coders of high-calibre are from what I have gathered very difficult to come by.

ps. I went with Quantum because Presonus don't treat Windows based studios as the lesser market and their support forum is very helpful, plus their products tend to stick around for a long time, always a good thing, aka RME.

I'm no expert, all IMO, just my thoughts.
Old 8th July 2019
  #3333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkg_uk View Post

ps. I went with Quantum because Presonus don't treat Windows based studios as the lesser market and their support forum is very helpful, plus their products tend to stick around for a long time, always a good thing, aka RME.

I'm no expert, all IMO, just my thoughts.
True on their products tend to stick around for a long time -- I still use a Presonus MP20 dual preamp.

And true they don't treat Windows as the lesser market.

However, if you want to stay in love with Presonus and S1, keep to controller keyboards and VSTis, don't try to record a keyboard workstation ... their communication gets a lot foggier there, as in they're never going to tell us why they make it so hard to use them. But I digress. Glad you like the Quantum, it appears to be a well-executed piece of kit.

And if you like the Presonus forum, well, don't ever bring up their treatment of "External Hardware" if you don't want to see your posts disappear.
Old 8th July 2019
  #3334
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Just to keep on thread topic...

I get 1.5ms combined total of in+out latency from the Quantum at block-size of 16, that's with quite a fair few VSTs (some FX VSTs very CPU heavy), I haven't actually heard it pop crackle or bang yet in my workflows under Studio One and Reaper... however, at block-size 16 I do hear the odd click when watching videos... and so I dial it back to 128 when not DAW'ing.

The headphone output I was concerned about, but it turned out to work flawlessly with my AKG702s, normally keep the dial at about 60%, and when I do dial it up all the way to 100, the sound doesn't get distorted, very loud indeed but no ear pain from clipping etc which some of my other interfaces have been prone to. I actually hear a nice wide range of sounds now, everything sounds more alive without any artificial warming etc.

The other thing I love is the fact I can daisy chain up to 4 of them so when I do eventually expand to more microphones for our drum kit etc, I will be able to do my thing without having to worry about running out of inputs and latency etc.

Also love the led VU meters, love the way they actually show you the noise floor too down to -50, and also love that I can individually phantom power the inputs and the digital readout of the gain is very helpful for when I plug in different mics so I can dial in whatever I have written down in a flash without having to fumble around in the blind or look at the mixer software. I have a few ribbons and they are very particular about the right gain etc in my arrangements.

Honestly all in all, I cannot fault it. They weren't kidding when they said no bells and whistles, just does what it does and does it very well, that was exactly what I was after. An audio interface that gets me 120db of dynamic range and an EIN <-130db, vocals and piano are pristine on this. The Audient ID14 was great too but it just lacked in all areas to be honest. This upgrade really was night and day for my needs. This thread helped a great deal, because latency is a big issue for live recording with multiple artists wanting to hear their pieces through the FX chains in realtime.

There is one flaw I have come across, but I double checked and it is to do with Thunderbolt on my pc, if I pull the cable out of any thunderbolt device, my pc crashes. However if I turn off the Quantum via its big button on the front, windows automatically switches back to my inbuilt soundcard and its back to ordinary pc use, no headaches, no flaffing around with pulling cables and whatnot.

Yup, Presonus did their homework on this one, plus you really can't argue with the price, pound for pound its a splendid package all the way... (plus they throw in a free copy of Studio One 4 Artist and a number of respectable plugins too. Would I consider premium RME gear? sure I would, however that gear is only going to give me bragging rights, not improve my production abilities. The Quantum delivers studio grade audio and expansion plus rock solid low latencies, one really can't argue with that - now we get to concentrate on what truly matters... the music.
Old 9th July 2019
  #3335
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomjab View Post
One more set of measurements for the new setup. For those that are interested in MOTU’s AVB implementation. I repeated my RTL tests but this time took the output from the 828es and patched it into an input on the 24ai module which is connected to the 828es via Ethernet.

Using AVB to connect to a computer is worse than using thunderbolt due to the networking stack on the computer however the latency between two MOTU modules connected with AVB is very good.

Adding the 24ai AVB connection only added 0.363 ms of latency at 44.1 buffer size 64.

Here are the results.

iMac Pro ——TB-—> 828eS ——Audio Patch Cable——> 24ai ==AVB==> 828es —TB—> iMac Pro
hi gom, nice to see ur figures. same as mine.

please note that if u monitor directly through the Motu interface the latency is under 1.5 ms if I am not mistaken. the routing from motu is very powerful, specially with avb capabilities.

what intrigues me is why these avb latency reports don't get more attention. I see so many emails from protools experts and other companies promoting Dante, but the latency in Dante is more than double if my memory is not mistaken. in addition avb is a free protocol.

I wished there were more AVB connecter than motu or presonus, in a rack. I think avb is huge. u can buy more interfaces instead of cables, which is pretty insane.
Old 9th July 2019
  #3336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkg_uk View Post
Just to keep on thread topic...
Once again I am glad you have taken delight in the Quantum. And I will not try and take it away from you. That said, many of the virtues you describe -- daisy chaining, good headphone section, acceptable live latency, sorting out recording drivers from Windows audio drivers with minimal intervention, and so on were not exactly invented by Presonus and brought to market with the Quantum. And RME is not the only company that's been delivering good Windows performance for some time.

So by all means keep enjoying your new interface getting out of the way of you making the music you want to make even though that ability has been available on the Windows side for some time ... albeit not at a block size of 16. Are you using the word "block" interchangeably with "buffer?" A buffer size of 16 would certainly be impressive if that is accurate. That would be new and different.
Old 9th July 2019
  #3337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg View Post
Once again I am glad you have taken delight in the Quantum. And I will not try and take it away from you. That said, many of the virtues you describe -- daisy chaining, good headphone section, acceptable live latency, sorting out recording drivers from Windows audio drivers with minimal intervention, and so on were not exactly invented by Presonus and brought to market with the Quantum. And RME is not the only company that's been delivering good Windows performance for some time.

So by all means keep enjoying your new interface getting out of the way of you making the music you want to make even though that ability has been available on the Windows side for some time ... albeit not at a block size of 16. Are you using the word "block" interchangeably with "buffer?" A buffer size of 16 would certainly be impressive if that is accurate. That would be new and different.
I'm no expert on latencies and drivers and ASIO buffers and RTL etc etc... the whole thing is just annoying when all you want to do is have something that just works, you know, I'm a musician first and foremost, we just want to get our sound into the computer and stored as transparent as possible with next to no noise and a great dynamic range so we can then do our magic to it with an army of VST FX plugins...

With the FX chains it is absolutely beautiful now to be able to hear everything in realtime without any crackling sounds... and we do

@ troggg - I've attached the image of where it says block size 16... I really have no clue what the difference is. As a consumer, at the end of the day, realtime FX with a whole lot of plugins was the intention (distributed across tracks). Indeed there are other interfaces which do it too, that was never in question, but some you end up paying silly money for, and with some interfaces as we added more plugins the crackling would start. That hasn't happened with the Quantum thus far, I'm happy, it does exactly what everyone said it does. ps. it looks rather pretty on the edge of my desk
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-universal_control_iddevb4ivq.png  
Old 9th July 2019
  #3338
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where did you get the screen shot from?

Did you measure you're actual latency with RTL loopback?
Old 9th July 2019
  #3339
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by troggg View Post

"When we unveiled the AXR4 Thunderbolt 2 audio interface in January, it made big waves at the NAMM show in LA. The downside however, it was only compatible with macOS systems. Since then we have been working on developing a driver for Windows, and we are now happy to say: it's here!"

Um, anyone think it would take RME six months to write a Windows driver? Just what was so vexing?
Comes down to what resources are available for the development of the drivers. I have no idea who developed the TB driver for Steinberg, if its internal ( Yamaha ), I'd take anything to do with LLP with a few grains , if its a 3rd party, well then it depends who the 3rd party is.

Case in point, who ever Slate commissioned to develop their TB drivers, has not been able to deliver a final Windows solution for 30 months since the product announcement, and 10 months after the official release. The time between the announcement to release can be viewed however you choose.

FWIW - The Quantum driver was not developed by Presonus, it was commissioned, and I have a pretty good idea who developed it, as it has left some finger prints :-)

Old 9th July 2019
  #3340
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@ Dewdman42 The screenshot is from the Quantum UC application, it gets installed as part of the driver app which you download from Presonus website when installing the device. Never ran an RTL test, the chart at the beginning of the thread already includes the Quantum, good enough for me.
Old 9th July 2019
  #3341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
The Quantum driver was not developed by Presonus, it was commissioned, and I have a pretty good idea who developed it, as it has left some finger prints :-)
Is it a good thing or bad??
Old 9th July 2019
  #3342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkg_uk View Post
@ Dewdman42 The screenshot is from the Quantum UC application, it gets installed as part of the driver app which you download from Presonus website when installing the device. Never ran an RTL test, the chart at the beginning of the thread already includes the Quantum, good enough for me.
Can you screen shot the whole window so we can see what "block" means?
Old 9th July 2019
  #3343
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The chart on the first post does not list 16 sample buffer results, so where are you getting your 1.5ms number from?
Old 9th July 2019
  #3344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
Can you screen shot the whole window so we can see what "block" means?
Doesnt show much, here you go...
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-universal_control_nujrbp8vlo.png  
Old 9th July 2019
  #3345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
The chart on the first post does not list 16 sample buffer results, so where are you getting your 1.5ms number from?
The Asio driver in one of the daws...
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-buzz_x64_ppghdogb91.png  
Old 9th July 2019
  #3346
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The reported latency does not always match reality. if you really want to know what latency you are getting, do an RTL loopback test.
Old 9th July 2019
  #3347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
The reported latency does not always match reality. if you really want to know what latency you are getting, do an RTL loopback test.
Yes that much I have read in this thread. The ears and experience with the device somewhat puts you at ease in validation of others reports. If it's live, if it aint crackling, you hear no delays, then its working. I'll leave the RTL scientific stuff to the experts on this thread. User experience is all I profess to share, and so far, it has been great. Also I am using Windows Workstation rather than the typical Professional edition everyone tends to use, had to pay extra for that just so I can have RDMA enabled on my nic for server hookup, not entirely sure if that makes a difference, a techie could do a comparison between Win Pro and Win Workstation to see if there is any kind of difference.

Also the driver version is: 9.15.28.559
Firmware 1.1-14
Old 9th July 2019
  #3348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkg_uk View Post
Is it a good thing or bad??
I think you already have your answer in the delivered performance.

Re Presonus Quantum @ 16 Samples.

I didn't list 16 samples because it is outside of my test parameters for the database, and realistically its not a setting that will be used as a preferred working latency.

Old 9th July 2019
  #3349
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The screenshot of one of the machine's Asio drivers (thanks for providing) shows the word "Default" right next to "16" in the Buffers field. That's kind of intriguing. Seems like your Quantum really likes the rest of your hardware. Or?
Old 10th July 2019
  #3350
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Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. I'm just an amateur musician, I normally loop guitar and bass using Ableton Live 10 on the spot and play with a drummer, a singer, and sometimes a sax player.

I have a very basic interface and decided to buy a new one. I'm debating between a UA Apollo Twin MKii and an RME Babyface Pro. After looking at the DAWbench I realize that these two interfaces have very similar performances in terms of latency.


What I find really attractive of the UA Apollo are the UAD plugins, the guitar and bass amp simulators sound incredibly well. I understand that many in this forum dislike the business model of UA, but to me it is not an issue since I'm not planning on getting hundreds of plugins, just a couple of good amp simulators.

On the other hand, I've read a lot of people that swear by RME's products. I am well aware that their drivers are extremely solid and very reliable for live performances. Nevertheless, they do not offer the kind of "one-stop solution" offered by the UA Apollo with regards to the UAD plugins that could be processed by the interface.

What is your opinion about these two interfaces? Is one of them far superior than the other one in terms of performance when live looping in Ableton Live? I don't plan on running dozens of tracks or effects. Could I route all tracks, including an electric drummer, through the interface and monitor through the DAW without annoying levels of latency?

Thanks for your help!
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-imgext.jpg  
Old 11th July 2019
  #3351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_fun View Post
What is your opinion about these two interfaces? Is one of them far superior than the other one in terms of performance when live looping in Ableton Live? I don't plan on running dozens of tracks or effects. Could I route all tracks, including an electric drummer, through the interface and monitor through the DAW without annoying levels of latency?

Thanks for your help!

I use an RME interface for the rock solid drivers/performance and have UA PCIe cards for the plugins--best of both worlds IMO.
Old 11th July 2019
  #3352
I know it's not very high-end, but I just thought I'd share it anyway. TC Impact Twin, Windows 10, TC Near software version 3.6.1.34, Driver version 4.3.1.47542. The interface is PCI FireWire powered by some usual TI chip.
All values measured with a scope, not reported or calculated.
Didn't do the processing benchmark at this point though 'cause it's a whole new dimension.

Linux RT kernel measurements coming next.

P.S. I wonder if anyone has any insight into how those modes work on this DICE powered interface. It doesn't look like its just double or triple-buffering...
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-2019-07-12-01_32_37-window.png  

Last edited by Orson Maxwell; 12th July 2019 at 05:26 PM..
Old 12th July 2019
  #3353
sbs
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Nothing outstanding here, just thought some extra numbers for the DB might help someone.

Windows 10, 1803
MBox Pro 3, driver 1.1.10 Win 81829
i9-9900k
Asus Prime Z390A
Attached Thumbnails
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base-rtl-results-071119.jpg  

Last edited by sbs; 12th July 2019 at 05:46 AM.. Reason: More fluff
Old 12th July 2019
  #3354
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what about the new focusrite scarlett 3nd line? is it better than the 2nd?
Old 12th July 2019
  #3355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterMueller View Post
what about the new focusrite scarlett 3nd line? is it better than the 2nd?
On the to do list, but I am not expecting any changes as its simply the same core USB2 controller and driver from Gen 2 with a USB-C connector I believe.

Same as the Clarett USB models.

I wish they would fix the broken ASIO driver in Cubase/Win7 that I reported quite a while back, its still broken according to some recent feedback.

Old 13th July 2019
  #3356
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A couple questions regarding the Presonus Quantum.

Does the Quantum have comparable performance on Windows as compared to Mac? And does the smaller Quantum 2 have similar performance to the Quantum?

Thanks.
Old 13th July 2019
  #3357
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tombot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
On the to do list, but I am not expecting any changes as its simply the same core USB2 controller and driver from Gen 2 with a USB-C connector I believe.

Same as the Clarett USB models.

I wish they would fix the broken ASIO driver in Cubase/Win7 that I reported quite a while back, its still broken according to some recent feedback.

Correct, I tested last week. It’s identical to gen 2
Old 13th July 2019
  #3358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooberknob View Post
A couple questions regarding the Presonus Quantum.

Does the Quantum have comparable performance on Windows as compared to Mac? And does the smaller Quantum 2 have similar performance to the Quantum?

Thanks.
I'm pretty sure the performance should be close if not exact.

I'm also pretty sure the 2 is missing a Mute button (the bigger Quantum definitely has one), which is a big deal because that forces you to either buy another piece of gear like a Monitor Station to get mute capability, or a lot more fiddling around in software. The price of a Monitor Station and a Quantum 2 may be pretty close to to a big Quantum with less wiring required and less complexity.
Old 14th July 2019
  #3359
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Just buy a Behringer Monitor 1 and you should be good to go. Or a JBL Nano Patch if you prefer. These are budget picks. A step up would be something like a Drawmer MC series or the Audient Nero thingy.
Old 14th July 2019
  #3360
Or just turn the volume knob down......
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