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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 28th November 2017
  #2551
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadside View Post
I downloaded the N4 trial.

I thought it was OK, but it only comes with compressors and preamps,
and my ear for both of those is underdeveloped.

I also have no experience with hardware and only recognize the most popular names.

But I can tell with the aqua plugs that the EQs are the best I've heard, and so I am drawn to AA.

So I wonder, will I find much value in nebula if I don't recognize the gear being emulated?

Are the eq's as great as the Aqua ones? If so, its a no brainer, right? But if N4 is as good as the aqua plugs, why create the plugs at all? More features?

If N4 is just as good, the price for what you get in N4 compared to the aqua plugins is a source of much confusion for me; why is N4 not 20x more expensive?

Need enlightenment.
Nebula, which later became N4 (maybe the re-badge has something to do with licensing?), came first. I highly doubt that Acustica had any idea that they were going to eventually go on to create Acquas when they released Nebula, either. Many, many third-party libraries were made for the Nebula crowd for years. And, the general opinion is that those libraries have always been preferable to the stock Nebula libraries in terms of tone. Those libraries (including eqs) that the 3rd party developers made/make, which have, since the beginning, normally been way less expensive than Acquas, hold their own and often even best Acquas in terms of tone. So, monetarily, it was quite the pickle for Acustica. Acustica allowed or created a situation in which third-party developers were able to make money from their tech, while they (Acustica) didn't take a cut. And, all the while they were working on Nebula (and later the Acquas). As they say, "It takes money to make money." So, to correct things, Acustica apparently has new policies in place and is working out a format and software to collect their licensing fees and kill a lot of problems with their software. I am referring to Aquarius. (Aside: Why isn't it spelled "Acquarius"? I mean, they're called Acquas.)


Now, Acquas bring to the table certain gear and somewhat unique gear combos that just haven't been sampled in N4. Dreamware. And, even if individual units have been sampled for Nebula, Acustica's process and equipment used to sample surely gives their Acquas different tones than similar libraries from third-party Nebula developers. Other advantages of the Acquas include more efficient workflow. That's probably the main one, in my opinion. I think that the situation was like this: Acquas = better, faster workflow and handling with a nice tone. Nebula = Best tone. Slowest, most horrible workflow. Ever? (I'm partially joking. It's not that bad.)


In the past, Acquas have also had the benefit of receiving the latest CORE engines and advancements in this tech. So, third-party Nebula compressor libraries, for a long time, couldn't quite compete with the Acquas or even some of the other algorithmic compressors in terms of action and accuracy. They usually didn't behave like the hardware they were sampled from. Now, guys like Tim P and Cupwise have come along and offered compressor libraries (often with visually appealing custom skins by jpn to facilitate better workflow) that do handle well, succeeding where others did not! On the Acustica side, based on all the chatter I see on this forum, the tone of their Dreamware has been getting better and better with every offering, model update, and advancement. Lemon!!!


So, the gap between N4 and the Acquas is ever diminishing. It's gonna narrow even more after N4 receives some of the big updates that we're waiting for.

Meh. Sorry for the rambling... Carry on.

Last edited by wagz; 28th November 2017 at 06:10 AM..
Old 28th November 2017
  #2552
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
ACQUA and N-4 have different design strategy/workflow ... but are based on the same CORE engines.
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Nebula 4 is single instance only and 11 years in the making...
Doh. If I had seen your posts, I could have saved myself all the time I spent typing.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2553
Lives for gear
 
davidgary73's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
But those are all solid state amps.
My bad..thank you for the correction

I was thinking of Flucti-Mew at the end of the chain hence the tubeness hahaha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadside View Post
I downloaded the N4 trial.

I thought it was OK, but it only comes with compressors and preamps,
and my ear for both of those is underdeveloped.

I also have no experience with hardware and only recognize the most popular names.

But I can tell with the acqua plugs that the EQs are the best I've heard, and so I am drawn to AA.

So I wonder, will I find much value in nebula if I don't recognize the gear being emulated?

Are the eq's as great as the Acqua ones? If so, its a no brainer, right? But if N4 is as good as the acqua plugs, why create the plugs at all? More features?

If N4 is just as good, the price for what you get in N4 compared to the acqua plugins is a source of much confusion for me; why is N4 not 20x more expensive?

Need enlightenment.
Imho, the presets that comes with the N4 trial downloads is no where near 3rd party libraries quality from AlexB, Tim Petherick, Cupwise etc. Best ask Will to send you those free presets to try

Anyway, Acqua EQ’s and Comps are great but with N4, you get to use tons of modern and vintage EQs/Comps/Consoles/Tape machine/Reverbs/Preamps etc at an affordable price $40 (less or more).

The good is..we get to use both N4 and Acqua to enhance our music mix

If you’re on FB, join us AA fan page @ https://www.facebook.com/groups/703927439766698/

and read about Why N4? @ https://www.facebook.com/notes/acust...3593493466758/
Old 28th November 2017
  #2554
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagz View Post
Doh. If I had seen your posts, I could have saved myself all the time I spent typing.
Not at all. Interesting to read others Users perspective, and I think you wrote a clear overview that would help bridge a better understanding.

I would add/emphasize ... since we get questions in choosing N-4 or ACQUA.

Many of Us started with NEBULA, and have accepted its workflow. With the advent of ACQUA, the doorway to this type of sonic technology, with its familiar GUI interface would probably be the best introduction. Combine that with the available TRIALS allows one to personally test form, function, performance.

That might seem to make N-4 trivial, but only to those making a causal glance.

Though we have previous done entire projects with NEBULA only ... we have opened the options in a big way.

We could consider N-4 as housing the separate ingredients of the sonic recipe [hey, been a long day in production ... 1st parallel that came to mind]. But the main point ... N-4 is now a focused specialist.

For example: Calling up a Console. We can choose from a wide variety of Mainframes with a PreAmp or LINE input. Insert into various BUSes. There are also a major amount of PREAMPs ... then there are all formats of Reel-to-reel tapes. We have isolated EQ bands, Filters ... and more.

Though I could still work with only ACQUAs or N-4. I am glad to have, and use, BOTH formats .... and so is my final project results. It is using the STRENGTH from each of these formats, and minimizing inherent weak-spots.

Whether helpful ? This is how I work.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2555
Lives for gear
 

To add to the conversation, I was thinking about how N4 libraries are like paint brushes for me to colour the sound. I use transformerless pres that could be described as clean (too "clean" and not fat enough for my taste), so then I choose N4 libraries to colour tracks in certain ways. Tele v72? Sure. 1081? Why not. These libraries are subtle, but that's how it's supposed to be. Lots of algorithmic plugins are like effects; they totally change the sound, and sometimes that's what I need. But N4 libraries add depth and class to recordings. And then the EQs are just amazing ....

Today I was messing about with a mixdown file. I decided to run it through a .47 tube pre, and then for kicks TimP 1102 pre, and then, heck why not, AlexB N14 mix bus clean. A bit much, maybe ... but man, what a sound! The perfect weight added to compliment the song. Such a killer combo.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2556
Gear Head
 
Roadside's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagz View Post
Nebula, which later became N4 (maybe the re-badge has something to do with licensing?), came first. I highly doubt that Acustica had any idea that they were going to eventually go on to create Acquas when they released Nebula, either. Many, many third-party libraries were made for the Nebula crowd for years. And, the general opinion is that those libraries have always been preferable to the stock Nebula libraries in terms of tone. Those libraries (including eqs) that the 3rd party developers made/make, which have, since the beginning, normally been way less expensive than Acquas, hold their own and often even best Acquas in terms of tone. So, monetarily, it was quite the pickle for Acustica. Acustica allowed or created a situation in which third-party developers were able to make money from their tech, while they (Acustica) didn't take a cut. And, all the while they were working on Nebula (and later the Acquas). As they say, "It takes money to make money." So, to correct things, Acustica apparently has new policies in place and is working out a format and software to collect their licensing fees and kill a lot of problems with their software. I am referring to Aquarius. (Aside: Why isn't it spelled "Acquarius"? I mean, they're called Acquas.)


Now, Acquas bring to the table certain gear and somewhat unique gear combos that just haven't been sampled in N4. Dreamware. And, even if individual units have been sampled for Nebula, Acustica's process and equipment used to sample surely gives their Acquas different tones than similar libraries from third-party Nebula developers. Other advantages of the Acquas include more efficient workflow. That's probably the main one, in my opinion. I think that the situation was like this: Acquas = better, faster workflow and handling with a nice tone. Nebula = Best tone. Slowest, most horrible workflow. Ever? (I'm partially joking. It's not that bad.)


In the past, Acquas have also had the benefit of receiving the latest CORE engines and advancements in this tech. So, third-party Nebula compressor libraries, for a long time, couldn't quite compete with the Acquas or even some of the other algorithmic compressors in terms of action and accuracy. They usually didn't behave like the hardware they were sampled from. Now, guys like Tim P and Cupwise have come along and offered compressor libraries (often with visually appealing custom skins by jpn to facilitate better workflow) that do handle well, succeeding where others did not! On the Acustica side, based on all the chatter I see on this forum, the tone of their Dreamware has been getting better and better with every offering, model update, and advancement. Lemon!!!


So, the gap between N4 and the Acquas is ever diminishing. It's gonna narrow even more after N4 receives some of the big updates that we're waiting for.

Meh. Sorry for the rambling... Carry on.
Wagz, thanks for the post. I feel as if I now benefit from an insiders experience/perspective without having to have had live through it myself. Value.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2557
Gear Head
 
Roadside's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgary73 View Post
My bad..thank you for the correction

I was thinking of Flucti-Mew at the end of the chain hence the tubeness hahaha.



Imho, the presets that comes with the N4 trial downloads is no where near 3rd party libraries quality from AlexB, Tim Petherick, Cupwise etc. Best ask Will to send you those free presets to try

Anyway, Acqua EQ’s and Comps are great but with N4, you get to use tons of modern and vintage EQs/Comps/Consoles/Tape machine/Reverbs/Preamps etc at an affordable price $40 (less or more).

The good is..we get to use both N4 and Acqua to enhance our music mix

If you’re on FB, join us AA fan page @ https://www.facebook.com/groups/703927439766698/

and read about Why N4? @ https://www.facebook.com/notes/acust...3593493466758/
Thanks! Yes, Will PM'd me and I received some stuff. I joined the FB group earlier today; and I just read the Why N4? article. Great info!
Old 28th November 2017
  #2558
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
I was referring to the separate EQ's. For my work, I've used the W95S [which is the Stereo version of the Neumann W495].
Hi,
I understand, thanks for the clarification!
regards
Old 28th November 2017
  #2559
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagz View Post
I have Silk and a bunch of other eq libraries, too. I use Surge for exactly what you are talking about. Vocals. Master Bus. It sounds great. I track with a fairly clean tube preamp that gives everything a sort of sweet, warm sound with soft edges. Audio honey.

Tonally, Surge just sort of focuses in and solidifies the edges of the picture, making the audio less blurry and more defined. It's even doing all this with even minus -2 db cuts in the midrange. I like Surge because it's clean, but gives a "harder" sound (sharper transients, with a more defined picture). Diamonds. Plus, Surge is more versatile than lots of other eq libraries.

Hi,

you seem to have discerning ears :o)
Thanks for this reply!

I could hear 'focuses in and solidifies the edges of the picture, making the audio less blurry and more defined' in the demo and it is something that is really surprising.

I decided to get the Surge eq to see how this might be a helpful addition to my more 'soundspreading-exciting- dispersing' plugins.

It is really a pity that only AA has this one month trial period: it can really help to get a clearer picture of what to buy at this point. But I understand that 3rd party offerings are mighty one man efforts. Therefore I also bought Silk on good luck and gut feeling.

Many thanks again for sharing your opinion ... regards!
Old 28th November 2017
  #2560
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Thanks a lot! AlexB's preamp color suite has it too.

Did anyone compare nebula preamps with for example Warm Audio or Golden Age preamps? Would buying something cheaper like that make much difference or should I save for a Great River? It feels like a good Neve or API nebula should sound better than a Warm Audio. I don't know.
I have a pair of WA Tonebeasts and they literally beat higher-end hardware for certain uses. I think that is the key. Certain things are awesome for certain uses. That's why a lot of the top mixers set their hardware a certain way and leave it, almost like a preset. So I prefer not to see it as "this is better than that". It really depends on the use and what your needs are.

It also depends on your CPU strategy as well as other factors.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2561
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearsuser View Post
Hi,

you seem to have discerning ears :o)
Thanks for this reply!

I could hear 'focuses in and solidifies the edges of the picture, making the audio less blurry and more defined' in the demo and it is something that is really surprising.

I decided to get the Surge eq to see how this might be a helpful addition to my more 'soundspreading-exciting- dispersing' plugins.

It is really a pity that only AA has this one month trial period: it can really help to get a clearer picture of what to buy at this point. But I understand that 3rd party offerings are mighty one man efforts. Therefore I also bought Silk on good luck and gut feeling.

Many thanks again for sharing your opinion ... regards!
Very very good first choice.

One of my all time Nebula favorite.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2562
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

I've been reading much raving on the Acqua thread about Magenta's ability to openly bump low-mids without becoming boxy or muddy (a balancing act I contend with frequently with mixed results).

Before I take that $150 plunge would any of you recommend any of the Mass Pass Neb libs over Magenta for this exact purpose?
Old 28th November 2017
  #2563
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
I've been reading much raving on the Acqua thread about Magenta's ability to openly bump low-mids without becoming boxy or muddy (a balancing act I contend with frequently with mixed results).

Before I take that $150 plunge would any of you recommend any of the Mass Pass Neb libs over Magenta for this exact purpose?
I always hear that AlexB MMeQ is better than Magenta.

You should try the demo.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
I've been reading much raving on the Acqua thread about Magenta's ability to openly bump low-mids without becoming boxy or muddy (a balancing act I contend with frequently with mixed results).

Before I take that $150 plunge would any of you recommend any of the Mass Pass Neb libs over Magenta for this exact purpose?
To my knowledge there's none that do what Magenta does.

It's a great EQ that does quite the oposite that a pultec eqp1 does to the low mids
Old 28th November 2017
  #2565
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
I've been reading much raving on the Acqua thread about Magenta's ability to openly bump low-mids without becoming boxy or muddy (a balancing act I contend with frequently with mixed results).

Before I take that $150 plunge would any of you recommend any of the Mass Pass Neb libs over Magenta for this exact purpose?
I have MMEQ by Alex B.

For me, does not do the same thing in that range.

But... is MUCH better in higher freqs... by miles.

I'm not well versed in real MMP so I don't have a theory but I've compared those two a lot.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2566
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
To my knowledge there's none that do what Magenta does.

It's a great EQ that does quite the oposite that a pultec eqp1 does to the low mids
Have you tried MMeq?
Old 28th November 2017
  #2567
TNC
Lives for gear
 
TNC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_of_ours View Post
I have a pair of WA Tonebeasts and they literally beat higher-end hardware for certain uses. I think that is the key. Certain things are awesome for certain uses. That's why a lot of the top mixers set their hardware a certain way and leave it, almost like a preset. So I prefer not to see it as "this is better than that". It really depends on the use and what your needs are.

It also depends on your CPU strategy as well as other factors.
Yeah Tonebeast seems really cool but unfortunately is out of my budget. I'm pretty sure WA12 is very cool too. Especially their Pultec clone also. I bough the AlexB Preamp Colors & Saturation, I love it. It's just that they are very subtle, which is actually what I was aiming for but I can't help but wonder would a real preamp be as subtle as Nebula preamps. I should save up for the Tonebeast.
Old 28th November 2017
  #2568
Acustica support got back to me saying they plan to fix the messed up gain reduction needle movement in N4 sometime in Q1 2018
Old 29th November 2017
  #2569
Lives for gear
 

Any TG12413 or Chand*** TG1 comps out there in Nebula land? Prime Studio does the Core 10 plugin, yes? Am I best off sticking with c660 and vari-level? How about Cupwise flucti-mew?
Old 29th November 2017
  #2570
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
A question for tape (R2R, TimP or whatever) users who use inserts on tracks and/or buses...

Have you tried using a single instance on an aux/send?

I've been playing with the tape on a send/aux with high saturation, then dialling in a % for each track. Less CPU used and the effect is subtle but significant.

In the digital world, is there any reason—bar emulating a real world hardware chain—of using multiple instances (except when you want specifically different settings for something) rather than a single aux?
Old 29th November 2017
  #2571
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
A question for tape (R2R, TimP or whatever) users who use inserts on tracks and/or buses...

Have you tried using a single instance on an aux/send?

I've been playing with the tape on a send/aux with high saturation, then dialling in a % for each track. Less CPU used and the effect is subtle but significant.

In the digital world, is there any reason—bar emulating a real world hardware chain—of using multiple instances (except when you want specifically different settings for something) rather than a single aux?
I've used T-Tape from Tim on a FX buss in S1 and was pleased.
It brought a good body to the source and I didnt need to go berserk on the FX.
Old 29th November 2017
  #2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
Have you tried MMeq?
Yes and its totaly different.

MMeq is a great EQ in the mid mid high.

Magenta is on its own at 100 to 300hz for example.

MMeq is not in the same type of result.

You get great 500 hz to 1khz with MMeq.

Magenta soon become honky there.
Old 29th November 2017
  #2573
Lives for gear
 
Patrick_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Yeah Tonebeast seems really cool but unfortunately is out of my budget. I'm pretty sure WA12 is very cool too. Especially their Pultec clone also. I bough the AlexB Preamp Colors & Saturation, I love it. It's just that they are very subtle, which is actually what I was aiming for but I can't help but wonder would a real preamp be as subtle as Nebula preamps. I should save up for the Tonebeast.
As an owner of a bunch of preamps and the nebula stuff it is so close it’s scary but the hardware has an extra 10% more due to just committing to the tone and not fighting with CPU and ALSO impedances depending on the mics and preamp uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
A question for tape (R2R, TimP or whatever) users who use inserts on tracks and/or buses...

Have you tried using a single instance on an aux/send?

I've been playing with the tape on a send/aux with high saturation, then dialling in a % for each track. Less CPU used and the effect is subtle but significant.

In the digital world, is there any reason—bar emulating a real world hardware chain—of using multiple instances (except when you want specifically different settings for something) rather than a single aux?
I use the Briscasti or asrADDA on all my reverb channels. Just a hint.
Old 29th November 2017
  #2574
TNC
Lives for gear
 
TNC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_ View Post
As an owner of a bunch of preamps and the nebula stuff it is so close it’s scary but the hardware has an extra 10% more due to just committing to the tone and not fighting with CPU and ALSO impedances depending on the mics and preamp uses.
I record my external gear, process individual channels with nebula and export it uncompressed, then I use Ableton's sampler so CPU doesn't become an issue. But yeah, using Nebula with other mixing tools such as DMG Audio's, CPU can become an issue easily.
Old 29th November 2017
  #2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_ View Post
I use the Briscasti or asrADDA on all my reverb channels. Just a hint.
How do you pass a full sequence through an ASR 10 and back in?

Whats your procedure step by step ?

I'm interested.

I thought it was a sampler with limited recording time possibility....

Isn't it 16 bit ?
Old 1st December 2017
  #2576
Lives for gear
 
swartzfeger's Avatar
Does anyone have experience/thoughts on AlexB's MFC? I'm doing more ambient oriented work, which kind of leans toward the cinematic spectrum. Seeing the dedicated LFE channel -- low frequency effects/explosions -- caught my interest. Doing lots of low end drones, I'm wondering if the LFE channel adds a little sub pixie dust to the mix.

Also curious about general thoughts on MFC and mixing with, as I've read it's spacious, big, softens transients etc.
Old 1st December 2017
  #2577
Here for the gear
 
lahenhessu's Avatar
 

Hello! Any info on when we will have setups for Nenula 4?
Old 1st December 2017
  #2578
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzfeger View Post
Does anyone have experience/thoughts on AlexB's MFC? I'm doing more ambient oriented work, which kind of leans toward the cinematic spectrum. Seeing the dedicated LFE channel -- low frequency effects/explosions -- caught my interest. Doing lots of low end drones, I'm wondering if the LFE channel adds a little sub pixie dust to the mix.

Also curious about general thoughts on MFC and mixing with, as I've read it's spacious, big, softens transients etc.
I'm fairly sure you won't be disappointed with MFC. Sounds like it's just the ticket for you.
Old 1st December 2017
  #2579
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lahenhessu View Post
Hello! Any info on when we will have setups for Nenula 4?
In the making
Old 1st December 2017
  #2580
Lives for gear
Great news! Does anyone have a list of what 3rd party libraries have had N4 skins? I've stuck with N3 so far without setups nd it's a little difficult going back and figuring that out on some of their websites (no complaints on that mind you, I appreciate they are not HTML gurus, saving us costs etc)

Could be a useful list for all of us.
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