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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 24th November 2017
  #2431
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Temoti View Post
Does a CD emulation library exist? Seeing as we have ones for vinyl and tape, I'm guessing it would be straight forward to make one, and would be quite cool to add another sonic stamp to ITB sounds. And, perhaps if the resulting impulses are too clean and don't add enough character to the sound, the sounds could be burnt on to CD multiple times over to bring it out more?
CD's are digital and offer no character. Vinyl and tape are an analogue process on physical media; character.

Just compress the sound or reduce it to 128KB or something :¬)
Old 24th November 2017
  #2432
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Temoti View Post
Does a CD emulation library exist? Seeing as we have ones for vinyl and tape, I'm guessing it would be straight forward to make one, and would be quite cool to add another sonic stamp to ITB sounds. And, perhaps if the resulting impulses are too clean and don't add enough character to the sound, the sounds could be burnt on to CD multiple times over to bring it out more?
Thank you! I needed a laugh today. One of the best things I have read on gs.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2433
Gear Head
 

I thought it was common knowledge that the medium of CD adds a sonic (harshness perhaps) quality. That might be the character of the CD player itself perhaps, the quality of the CDR, or the quality of the burning process, regardless - there would be no difference in the prices of CDRs, CD players, and CD writers if absoloutly no sonic quality was added.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2434
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Thank you! I needed a laugh today. One of the best things I have read on gs.
I'm not sure how off I am on this, and neither am I sure how off you are, but in the case that I am, and you are not, i'm certain you've said far dumber things that warrant far more of a laugh. And in the case that I'm not and you are, you probably need to rethink how you communicate with people - especially the ones with new and different ideas
Old 24th November 2017
  #2435
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Temoti View Post
I thought it was common knowledge that the medium of CD adds a sonic (harshness perhaps) quality. That might be the character of the CD player itself perhaps, the quality of the CDR, or the quality of the burning process, regardless - there would be no difference in the prices of CDRs, CD players, and CD writers if absoloutly no sonic quality was added.
CD's are digital dude, ones and zeros (burned into the surface).



The only change a CD can make is if the surface is damaged and the 1/0 cannot be read, and then all you get is skipping/pausing/errors.

CD players themselves can have sonic characteristics (flaws, essentially), depending on the circuitry. This is what you're talking about, I think.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2436
Gear Head
 

Turns out you are both, seemingly, wrong.

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-a...ake-difference

Quote:
Different burn speeds do indeed have a measurable effect on the quality of the signal burned into a CD-R, but it also depends on the quality of the CD burner and the CD-R itself.

Higher burn speeds don't induce more errors in the disc directly, but you have to remember that while the data is digital, the physical process of burning a CD is an analogue one, and that the error protection embedded in audio CDs is much inferior to that of data CDs. The CD burner creates small bumps in the playing surface of the CD-R that the CD player can then detect. The spacing between each bump is critical to being able to detect and decode the data signal. But more importantly, the rising and falling edge (the beginning and end) of each bump is also critical, and this is the aspect that is most affected by different combinations of burn speed, disc media and the state of the laser.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2437
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Temoti View Post
I'm not sure how off I am on this, and neither am I sure how off you are, but in the case that I am, and you are not, i'm certain you've said far dumber things that warrant far more of a laugh. And in the case that I'm not and you are, you probably need to rethink how you communicate with people - especially the ones with new and different ideas
No need to get so touchy, I merely thanked you for gifting me a lovely belly laugh. And I totally meant it. Thanks again. I'll stay out of your cd theories and would just like to wish you a great day.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2438
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
No need to get so touchy, I merely thanked you for gifting me a lovely belly laugh. And I totally meant it. Thanks again. I'll stay out of your cd theories and would just like to wish you a great day.
And there's no need to fake sincerity. Repeating your sarcastic thanks makes you no less wrong, and makes your "lovely belly laugh" no less ironic.

As I said, if the article I posted above is in any way accurate, which I imagine it is, then you are, in fact, technically wrong.

In which case, I think you should worry more about actually being right before taking the piss out of others, and less about how "touchy" others may seem whilst they're correcting you.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2439
Ok now Temoti, there's no need for gentlemans to get into a pissing contest.

Both of you have a great day and stay classy.

That was the end of it.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2440
Lives for gear
 
brockorama's Avatar
 

Go make some music.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2441
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Temoti View Post
And there's no need to fake sincerity. Repeating your sarcastic thanks makes you no less wrong, and makes your "lovely belly laugh" no less ironic.

As I said, if the article I posted above is in any way accurate, which I imagine it is, then you are, in fact, technically wrong.

In which case, I think you should worry more about actually being right before taking the piss out of others, and less about how "touchy" others may seem whilst they're correcting you.
Keep drawing a picture for yourself if you like. My laughing wasn't actually about taking the piss out of someone, but an actual direct response to what I view as the now normal surrealness around here. You just happened to have been the guy channeling it this time. It's also a mystery how I was 'wrong' when I didn't even offer any thoughts on the subject, so that be 100% your projection as well.

No probs, do what you must. Just don't assume too much, sometimes things are not what they first seem to be, and even more so, what they DO seem to be always tells you more about yourself than the person you are looking at.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2442
Lives for gear
2Temoti you brought something up that I'd long forgotten. CDs have Adda (my CDR did), analogue motors and laser chemistry for cdrs.

But the inaccuracies of CD burning if done properly were insignificant to my ears.

So you do have a point but I think there's no mileage in it. Probably why no developer ever bothered. 20 passes of a CD player neb library or whack it through a glorious summing amp, pre, comp or whatever. You've got a fight on your hands I fear, even though it is an unexplored inaccuracy.

And I'll admit I was just as incredulous as Karloff70.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2443
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b0se's Avatar
Eeeh. I have a Masters in Advanced Computer Science and have written papers on data transfer. The burning process may be analogue, but it's burning a digital format. That digital format—categorically—does not carry any 'character' from the burning process. Likewise, the data read by the laser (in the player) imparts no character, as it's reading 1s and 0s. Any errors when burning (what I assume you're thinking is 'character') is treated as that - an error.

You have your wires crossed bro. The players can sound different, but the data on the CD will never have 'character'. It can have errors, but they're entirely negligible.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2444
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wjmwpg's Avatar
 

I think much of the sonic quality of the "CD listening experience" is down to how the file is prepped for the burn. Something being mastered to land on CD isn't going to be mastered exactly the same as something being mastered for vinyl.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2445
Gear Addict
 
leckel1996's Avatar
Wow, this discussion is so off topic. Hahaha, anyone here using Flucti-Mew? Just bought it and am really having a hard time getting the compression working correctly. It seems to overreact to transients compared to other Nebula compressors I have. I love the tone of the unit. Any tips on how to get the most out of this library or what material to use it on?
Old 24th November 2017
  #2446
Quote:
Originally Posted by leckel1996 View Post
Wow, this discussion is so off topic. Hahaha, anyone here using Flucti-Mew? Just bought it and am really having a hard time getting the compression working correctly. It seems to overreact to transients compared to other Nebula compressors I have. I love the tone of the unit. Any tips on how to get the most out of this library or what material to use it on?
It is not meant to be a fast compressor knocking your transient.

A vari mu is not a compressor with a tube in the end of the compression stage.

A vari mu compression is obtain in the valve itself which mean that you will and should have saturation on your transient when pushing it as a multipurpose compressor.

A vari mu is used ( to me ) for 2 things.

1 - Smooth out a my buss or mix buss source.

2 - I use a dizengoff to distort low end material

So in conclusion, the compression is acting correctly, you are not using it correctly.

Use it to ride your source...not to squash it.

It'll bring warmth, depth and width to your mix if you treat her like a princess.

This thing bring his full grace when used in very little amount.

If you want to squash something, use a VCA, not a vari-mu.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2447
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
It is not meant to be a fast compressor knocking your transient.

A vari mu is not a compressor with a tube in the end of the compression stage.

A vari mu compression is obtain in the valve itself which mean that you will and should have saturation on your transient when pushing it as a multipurpose compressor.

A vari mu is used ( to me ) for 2 things.

1 - Smooth out a my buss or mix buss source.

2 - I use a dizengoff to distort low end material

So in conclusion, the compression is acting correctly, you are not using it correctly.

Use it to ride your source...not to squash it.

It'll bring warmth, depth and width to your mix if you treat her like a princess.

This thing bring his full grace when used in very little amount.

If you want to squash something, use a VCA, not a vari-mu.
Yup. It's a mastering compressor. Can be used on anything but as Martel says, tickle the source.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2448
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
I own Flucti-Mu and I had the Manley Vari-Mu hardware for years, Martel and Bose are correct, this is a mixbus comp used mostly in mastering. It's know as imparting a bit of a hi-fi tone while smoothing out material, 2-4 db reduction max for most situations.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2449
Gear Addict
 
leckel1996's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I own Flucti-Mu and I had the Manley Vari-Mu hardware for years, Martel and Bose are correct, this is a mixbus comp used mostly in mastering. It's know as imparting a bit of a hi-fi tone while smoothing out material, 2-4 db reduction max for most situations.
Thanks for all the replies. I should have clarified how I am using it. I was having problems using it on the mixbus with 1.5dB compression max. It was a simple acoustic song with vox, acoustic guitar, and a djembe. The transients from the djembe caused the whole mix to duck unless I turned the compression control down to extremely low levels.

The release seems to not match up with the music no matter how long I spent tweaking attack, release and hpf controls. I then tried TimPs compressors and U76, Opto3A, and L-Buss all seemed to match the music far better and these aren't even all mix compressors.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by leckel1996 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I should have clarified how I am using it. I was having problems using it on the mixbus with 1.5dB compression max. It was a simple acoustic song with vox, acoustic guitar, and a djembe. The transients from the djembe caused the whole mix to duck unless I turned the compression control down to extremely low levels.

The release seems to not match up with the music no matter how long I spent tweaking attack, release and hpf controls. I then tried TimPs compressors and U76, Opto3A, and L-Buss all seemed to match the music far better and these aren't even all mix compressors.
I dont know what to tell you.

I dont even know how to make a ducking effect with a Vari-Mu.

I thought it was impossible.

Its too slow to pump

Maybe if you can send me your source I can try to recreate your results and see how I could set it up to react as best as I think it should ( as we all have different vision of correct application)
Old 24th November 2017
  #2451
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by leckel1996 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I should have clarified how I am using it. I was having problems using it on the mixbus with 1.5dB compression max. It was a simple acoustic song with vox, acoustic guitar, and a djembe. The transients from the djembe caused the whole mix to duck unless I turned the compression control down to extremely low levels.

The release seems to not match up with the music no matter how long I spent tweaking attack, release and hpf controls. I then tried TimPs compressors and U76, Opto3A, and L-Buss all seemed to match the music far better and these aren't even all mix compressors.
I would say then that the Flucti-Mu was not the best tool for the song but you found a better tool fit for your song.
Old 24th November 2017
  #2452
Gear Addict
 
leckel1996's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
I dont know what to tell you.

I dont even know how to make a ducking effect with a Vari-Mu.

I thought it was impossible.

Its too slow to pump

Maybe if you can send me your source I can try to recreate your results and see how I could set it up to react as best as I think it should ( as we all have different vision of correct application)
Have you used Flucti-Mew before? I ask because I've never heard this behavior from other vari-mu styled compressors I've used.
Old 25th November 2017
  #2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by leckel1996 View Post
Have you used Flucti-Mew before? I ask because I've never heard this behavior from other vari-mu styled compressors I've used.
Yes, I've used it for about a year now in my project studio.

Thats where all my AA stuff are and where I compose at night after my sessions while at home.

I'm in the process of moving from an almost all OTB (I mostly use my pc to record and stash signals ) to an hybrid setup.

I use 2 altec 436c as part of my last chain before printing my final at my main.

I'm use to Vari Mu behavior.

In fact I think I over use them....I just love how it flow without destroying.

There's no pumping effect possible with this ....You will hear distortion everywhere before you even feel something pumping.

My dizengoff is the perfect example.
Old 25th November 2017
  #2454
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by leckel1996 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I should have clarified how I am using it. I was having problems using it on the mixbus with 1.5dB compression max. It was a simple acoustic song with vox, acoustic guitar, and a djembe. The transients from the djembe caused the whole mix to duck unless I turned the compression control down to extremely low levels.

The release seems to not match up with the music no matter how long I spent tweaking attack, release and hpf controls. I then tried TimPs compressors and U76, Opto3A, and L-Buss all seemed to match the music far better and these aren't even all mix compressors.
Try Violet instead. Fab on the mixbus with 1-3 dB GR.

Or Cupwise's C660.

Or Cobalt :¬)
Old 25th November 2017
  #2455
Listen to a dizengoff on low freq:



Thats a vari-mu with distorting valves.

It get interesting with the growl on.

I thought he would have put it on but he didnt

My altecs are distorting very differently.

Ive never heard a Manley vari-mu plain distortion....ive never had one and never had the balls to do something stupid in front of a studio owner with one haha
Old 25th November 2017
  #2456
I'm interested in the 609 bundle from cupwise.

can someone share experience compared to gold ?
Old 25th November 2017
  #2457
Gear Addict
 
leckel1996's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Try Violet instead. Fab on the mixbus with 1-3 dB GR.

Or Cupwise's C660.

Or Cobalt :¬)
Yeah, I like Violet. I've tried other Manley Vari-Mu emulations and Flucti-Mew sounds nothing like them. It sounds really wrong to my ears. Cobalt, Violet, and Ultramarine all sound correct. Could something be wrong with it? I'll post some examples of what I'm talking about tomorrow.
Old 25th November 2017
  #2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by leckel1996 View Post
Yeah, I like Violet. I've tried other Manley Vari-Mu emulations and Flucti-Mew sounds nothing like them. It sounds really wrong to my ears. Cobalt, Violet, and Ultramarine all sound correct. Could something be wrong with it? I'll post some examples of what I'm talking about tomorrow.
There's definitaly something wrong somewhere.

None of those you mentionned bring the warmth and depth flucti mew bring.

So you really need to look into it cuz theres something that is not working right in your N4 or signal chain to it
Old 25th November 2017
  #2459
Gear Addict
 
bukarin's Avatar
 

Just bought Flucti-Mew after all this talk and seeing the new skin! I've used the real one a fair amount so know what to expect...

Just tried it replacing a Violet on the mixbuss of a hip hop track I'm currently mixing, didn't beat it in this application (didn't tweak too much) but I can hear already how powerful it will be on the right source.

I really love Violet (has pretty much replaced Coral Comp for me atm) and I think Flucti-Mew will be an great addition. Its got that distinct Manley buttery smooth high end.

So when are we getting a proper Fairchild with JPN Skin for N4 from one of the Tim's??
Old 25th November 2017
  #2460
Gear Addict
 
leckel1996's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
There's definitaly something wrong somewhere.

None of those you mentionned bring the warmth and depth flucti mew bring.

So you really need to look into it cuz theres something that is not working right in your N4 or signal chain to it
The tone of it sounds great. Definitely sounds superior to the Acustica plugins I mentioned.
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