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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 23rd October 2017
  #2191
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfjer View Post
so how do you guys think Tim`s new L-bus wonder compares to Sand bus comp ?
no one has mentioned that yet so i had to ask
I've been using Sand on the mixbus since I bought it last year. Love it!

L-Bus seems 'deeper' to me (hard to explain), the glue it gives you is more invisible. It reaches down further into the aspects of the track, into smaller spaces. A darker hue. Hard to explain, more of a feeling.

Sand has a brighter tone and doesn't reach as deep.

Both great, and what works depends on the source material. L-Bus is my new default though!

Looking forward to testing L-Bus followed by Novatron later this week.
Old 23rd October 2017
  #2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
I've been using Sand on the mixbus since I bought it last year. Love it!

L-Bus seems 'deeper' to me (hard to explain), the glue it gives you is more invisible. It reaches down further into the aspects of the track, into smaller spaces. A darker hue. Hard to explain, more of a feeling.

Sand has a brighter tone and doesn't reach as deep.

Both great, and what works depends on the source material. L-Bus is my new default though!

Looking forward to testing L-Bus followed by Novatron later this week.
I know you said "hard to explain" but what you mean by "reach deeper"?

I tested Sand 2 times, but could not use it in a real track. I'm not really a SSL bus comp fan, but the hardware XLogic, that I have used just a few times, had the Wow effect on me. Don't know why, but maybe the shiny, polished tone on the hardware is still better than the plugins trying to emulate it.

L-Bus has not this type of tone. As Will said, is a bit darker (still, it doesn't color to much the track) and more vibey to me.

The action might be better on L-Bus, more on par with my time with the XLogic. But that could be just an impression, and my mind playing tricks on me, as I have little experience with Sand and the hardware.
Old 23rd October 2017
  #2193
Yes, new outboard SSL comps and the ones in AWS and C series are more polished sounding while the ones in the 4k and even in the first 9K are more "gritty"
Old 23rd October 2017
  #2194
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
I know you said "hard to explain" but what you mean by "reach deeper"?

I tested Sand 2 times, but could not use it in a real track. I'm not really a SSL bus comp fan, but the hardware XLogic, that I have used just a few times, had the Wow effect on me. Don't know why, but maybe the shiny, polished tone on the hardware is still better than the plugins trying to emulate it.

L-Bus has not this type of tone. As Will said, is a bit darker (still, it doesn't color to much the track) and more vibey to me.

The action might be better on L-Bus, more on par with my time with the XLogic. But that could be just an impression, and my mind playing tricks on me, as I have little experience with Sand and the hardware.
If you imagine a track as a valley, with lows, highs and crevices, L-Bus fills those spaces with something I cannot really explain. A deeper coherence of dynamic movement. I suppose that what the word glue is intended to represent :¬)

Most algos never reach that deep into the track - the compression feels less coherent across the spectrum; more superficial and surface based. As if pulling (and distorting) the skin away from the bone, rather than moving the skin with the flesh and bone underneath.

I have no experience with the hardware and can only go from these plugins. I could also be completely imagining it all. We all know how easy it is to trick ourselves into hearing, seeing or believing pretty much anything.

Regardless, that what I feel when I use L-Bus.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2195
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What I found using SSL consoles nightly and having owned a G384 for years was that algo plugins never glue to the depth the hardware does and the plugins were always like an added effect, whereas the hardware was always more subtle in what it does. Sand came the closest but with the more modern compression tone, L Bus reminds me of my 4000 G384 hardware experience, it's there but not really super noticeable until you remove it. Let's not forget Sand is also 4K and 5K EQ with the comps, so a direct of tool to tool comparison is harder to do. They each have a place.

As always to each their own opinions.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2196
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bukarin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Sand sounds like the XLogic buss comp next to L Bus, which sounds dark and very 1990's SSL. The added HP and wet/dry make L Bus a fantastic tool for bus work.
My quick tests of L Bus really didn't make me think dark. Next to The Glue and Slate Grey VBC it sounded more open and transparent (classic 1dB gain reduction 4:1 Ratio slowest attack fastest release). Tim P mentioned on the Acustica forum that its based around the THAT VCA not DBX so its more than likely not a 90s unit.

I've got a hardware GSSL clone with THAT VCA that I want to test it against but not got any time until next week. All this Nebula/Aqua stuff has forced my hand and I'm buying my first PC for music since 1998!!! Love Tim P compressors but they cripple my old Mac Pro, hoping the new 14 core monster is going to lap em up!!
Old 24th October 2017
  #2197
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Good on you Bukarin. Seeing as youre making a fresh start for Nebula on PC, make sure you run Reaper with that!
Old 24th October 2017
  #2198
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People are using a 4:1 ratio on the mix bus? Madness!
Old 24th October 2017
  #2199
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Patrick_'s Avatar
I can’t use L Buss it’s kills my 3rd gen i5 lol. And I don’t want too upgrade my laptop. But the drive is mighty fine.

Question I want to know is why is the drive from the comps different files ? Will just pulling up the comps themselves be just a clean comp and the drive is the color ? Or does the comp come with color and the preamp is just driven ?

Please explain.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
People are using a 4:1 ratio on the mix bus? Madness!
Um. Yup.

Don't over-think just one aspect. If you are only after .5-1.5 db of reduction then it becomes much more about the knee, which in some comps is affected by the ratio.

4:1 at 1db of reduction with slow attack and fast release is VERY light compression in many contexts.

If you've not tried it, it's well worth it as it is one of the few "recipes" found in mixing. In a world of very few "rules" this is a quite ubiquitous approach.

I'm saying this as someone who used to swear by the 1.5:1 on an API 2500 plug... so believe me, I'm with you on how it may appear.

But try an SSL style on 4:1, slowest/fastest. Mix into it... remove it... and you'll see what the fuss is about. Not saying you'll like it (opinions being what they are) but you'll certainly feel differently about the idea.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Um. Yup.

Don't over-think just one aspect. If you are only after .5-1.5 db of reduction then it becomes much more about the knee, which in some comps is affected by the ratio.

4:1 at 1db of reduction with slow attack and fast release is VERY light compression in many contexts.

If you've not tried it, it's well worth it as it is one of the few "recipes" found in mixing. In a world of very few "rules" this is a quite ubiquitous approach.

I'm saying this as someone who used to swear by the 1.5:1 on an API 2500 plug... so believe me, I'm with you on how it may appear.

But try an SSL style on 4:1, slowest/fastest. Mix into it... remove it... and you'll see what the fuss is about. Not saying you'll like it (opinions being what they are) but you'll certainly feel differently about the idea.
I was being semi-sarcastic as I knew this was likely a thing people do ... but was really hoping someone would give me an in-depth explanation about it as you have. I'm one of those people who usually set up the mix bus compressor with a 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio. But the characteristics you've described seem really interesting. Going to try it out ASAP.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
People are using a 4:1 ratio on the mix bus? Madness!
yes 'people'. Inc many of the world's top mixers. For decades.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2203
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
People are using a 4:1 ratio on the mix bus? Madness!
Works quite well for Andy Wallace most days of the week.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2204
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by bukarin View Post
My quick tests of L Bus really didn't make me think dark. Next to The Glue and Slate Grey VBC it sounded more open and transparent (classic 1dB gain reduction 4:1 Ratio slowest attack fastest release). Tim P mentioned on the Acustica forum that its based around the THAT VCA not DBX so its more than likely not a 90s unit.

I've got a hardware GSSL clone with THAT VCA that I want to test it against but not got any time until next week. All this Nebula/Aqua stuff has forced my hand and I'm buying my first PC for music since 1998!!! Love Tim P compressors but they cripple my old Mac Pro, hoping the new 14 core monster is going to lap em up!!
Which CPU? There's a big thread over on the AA forum comparing performance. Will's machine seems to be a sweet spot for AA. 5820K iirc.

Looking at the new i9's too. 8700K looks to be a good choice. 6 core / 12T but clocks to 5GHz.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2205
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bukarin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Thanks!




Which CPU? There's a big thread over on the AA forum comparing performance. Will's machine seems to be a sweet spot for AA. 5820K iirc.

Looking at the new i9's too. 8700K looks to be a good choice. 6 core / 12T but clocks to 5GHz.
I've gone for the i9 7940x with 32gb of ram and an M2 System drive and a second M2 drive for Nebula. It's 14 core/28 thread and will be clocked to 4.2ghz. I'll probably add more ram at some point but decided to go for a more powerful cpu initially. I'm far from a PC expert but this seems to be a beast and one of the better i9 CPUs. I'm hoping it'll give me many years of service. I wish it was a Mac but at this point as long as it's stable overall performance with Nebula is way more important and obviously the price to performance ratio is decent compared to any Mac.

I've followed the thread on the Acustica forum and I'll add some results when I'm all tweaked and running smoothly.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2206
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bukarin View Post
I've gone for the i9 7940x with 32gb of ram and an M2 System drive and a second M2 drive for Nebula. It's 14 core/28 thread and will be clocked to 4.2ghz. I'll probably add more ram at some point but decided to go for a more powerful cpu initially. I'm far from a PC expert but this seems to be a beast and one of the better i9 CPUs. I'm hoping it'll give me many years of service. I wish it was a Mac but at this point as long as it's stable overall performance with Nebula is way more important and obviously the price to performance ratio is decent compared to any Mac.

I've followed the thread on the Acustica forum and I'll add some results when I'm all tweaked and running smoothly.
Great build, I was reading about the 7940x the other night. Very tempting.

More cores vs higher clock is a hard one to get spot on (software dependant), but at 4.2Ghz you'll be sailing anyway. I'll keep an eye out for your speed testing, if it's uber I'll follow suit with that chip too.

Good luck with the build!

P.S. I went from 32 to 64GB RAM for AA/N4 and it made no difference whatsoever. Just a quad core (8T) machine though, clocked at 4.6Ghz now.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Works quite well for Andy Wallace most days of the week.
If I remember correctly, his settings are 4:1, Release on Auto, he tries different attacks and goes for 4db of reduction.

Yeah, 4db with 4:1.

Extreme.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2208
Gear Maniac
 

Hi Guys,

L-bus news-

I've just uploaded a new version with today's date on it.

The files uploaded are not the lower CPU versions that i'm gonna make. However, I found some little bug that may improve the cpu consumption of the originals.
Nothing has changed sonically In fact the files ended up being a tiny bit larger. You may find that these bring down the cpu a little as they did on my system.
The performance meter in nebula is now showing around half the amount on my system. So please try download this latest version and install the vectors again, you only need to change the vectors.



I'm now gonna make some lighter versions that should half the cpu. They won't sound exactly the same as you can imagine.. this will take some time too

Also, please keep in mind I don't tend to post much here, this is just to get the message out. I'm not sending out emails Until all updates are done

Last edited by TimP Nebula; 24th October 2017 at 12:57 PM.. Reason: Change order of para
Old 24th October 2017
  #2209
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Patrick_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Hi Guys,

L-bus news-

I've just uploaded a new version with today's date on it.

The files uploaded are not the lower CPU versions that i'm gonna make. However, I found some little bug that may improve the cpu consumption of the originals.
Nothing has changed sonically In fact the files ended up being a tiny bit larger. You may find that these bring down the cpu a little as they did on my system.
The performance meter in nebula is now showing around half the amount on my system. So please try download this latest version and install the vectors again, you only need to change the vectors.



I'm now gonna make some lighter versions that should half the cpu. They won't sound exactly the same as you can imagine.. this will take some time too

Also, please keep in mind I don't tend to post much here, this is just to get the message out. I'm not sending out emails Until all updates are done
If it’s going to destroy the sound than it’s not worth it. Even I know not all nebula programs will work with my old ass CPU. So please don’t sacrifice the quality.

Also I asked a question about your comps and pre programs. Do the compressor come with the harmonics or is it a clean compressor ?
Old 24th October 2017
  #2210
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
If I remember correctly, his settings are 4:1, Release on Auto, he tries different attacks and goes for 4db of reduction.

Yeah, 4db with 4:1.

Extreme.
Mixes into that compression I assume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Hi Guys,

L-bus news - I've just uploaded a new version with today's date on it.

The files uploaded are not the lower CPU versions that i'm gonna make. However, I found some little bug that may improve the cpu consumption of the originals.

Nothing has changed sonically In fact the files ended up being a tiny bit larger. You may find that these bring down the cpu a little as they did on my system.
The performance meter in nebula is now showing around half the amount on my system. So please try download this latest version and install the vectors again, you only need to change the vectors.

I'm now gonna make some lighter versions that should half the cpu. They won't sound exactly the same as you can imagine.. this will take some time too

Also, please keep in mind I don't tend to post much here, this is just to get the message out. I'm not sending out emails Until all updates are done
Amazing, thanks Tim.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2211
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_ View Post
If it’s going to destroy the sound than it’s not worth it. Even I know not all nebula programs will work with my old ass CPU. So please don’t sacrifice the quality.

Also I asked a question about your comps and pre programs. Do the compressor come with the harmonics or is it a clean compressor ?

They will be extra presets the originals will left as is..... I’m not gonna destroy what I already made.


In terms of distortion, the two are seperated into pre and comp, Why? I won’t get into to much detail here but if you imagine this. A compression creates modulation/tracking/compression distortion, these are generally dictated by compression amount and speed shape of attack and release. If you sweep through lbus with a fast attack and release you’ll hear the compression distortion come into play on the low frequency’s . As you can imagine it’s important to sepearte these two things in the sampling process.

I have indeed sampled harmonics before in compression but this way is more accurate imo.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Hi Guys,

L-bus news-

I've just uploaded a new version with today's date on it.

The files uploaded are not the lower CPU versions that i'm gonna make. However, I found some little bug that may improve the cpu consumption of the originals.
Not working for me Nebula 4 latest version Mac os x 10.12.6 Reaper 5.52.

Knobs return to their original position
Old 24th October 2017
  #2213
And now same problem with previous version HELP!
Old 24th October 2017
  #2214
Gear Maniac
 

Hmmmmm


Try clearing your temp in n4 and reloading, check your vector paths are correct. If it persists give a mail and I'll try help out.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2215
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Patrick_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
They will be extra presets the originals will left as is..... I’m not gonna destroy what I already made.


In terms of distortion, the two are seperated into pre and comp, Why? I won’t get into to much detail here but if you imagine this. A compression creates modulation/tracking/compression distortion, these are generally dictated by compression amount and speed shape of attack and release. If you sweep through lbus with a fast attack and release you’ll hear the compression distortion come into play on the low frequency’s . As you can imagine it’s important to sepearte these two things in the sampling process.

I have indeed sampled harmonics before in compression but this way is more accurate imo.
So the pre is to make up for the lost sound I guess due to the compression. Sorry I’m not very tech nerdy
Old 24th October 2017
  #2216
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bukarin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Hmmmmm


Try clearing your temp in n4 and reloading, check your vector paths are correct. If it persists give a mail and I'll try help out.
Yeah this version isn't working for me either in Pro Tools 12.8.1 (Yosemite).
I've emptied the temp file, checked all paths, cleared the Nebula Cache etc.

Seems to get stuck when loading and a few times has filled the entire memory (according to Pro Tools System Usage). When it has loaded its just come up with INIT and the knobs reset to the same position every time.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2217
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bukarin View Post
Yeah this version isn't working for me either in Pro Tools 12.8.1 (Yosemite).
I've emptied the temp file, checked all paths, cleared the Nebula Cache etc.

Seems to get stuck when loading and a few times has filled the entire memory (according to Pro Tools System Usage). When it has loaded its just come up with INIT and the knobs reset to the same position every time.
Ok well that is strange. I'm not gonna go ahead and make new versions right now, Until it's fully confirmed. The only other thing I can suggest, that it might be because the old version is used on a project that was using the original files. You guys could be right but try a fresh project first before I start hunting for it.

Oh also try installing the programs too in this case, it could be that you are using the very first version of programs without that threshold bug fix I made.

Contact me if it persists.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2218
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Same problem
New version 24-10-17 doesnt work.
Old 24th October 2017
  #2219
Gear Maniac
 

Ok i'm gonna make another version, so it will be a couple hours.....



Tim


Edit- just uploaded again, it was something silly simple. You'll have to replace programs too. Its a quick fix for those who needed it working.

Last edited by TimP Nebula; 24th October 2017 at 04:55 PM..
Old 24th October 2017
  #2220
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Mixes into that compression I assume?

Unlikely to stick it on randomly after he's finished.
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