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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 6th June 2017
  #1861
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
Will (or anyone else who cares to say), what are your favorite tube samples? I've got HO's and AlexB's preamp collections, which do have some tube pre offerings (and sound great). Am I good with those? Are there others I'm missing out on? (CDSM's Vintage Tube collection comes to mind, but how much different will the Mullards and such sound from what I've got?)

The tubes in Gold are quite nice. I've been trying out the new Cobalt pres and compressor and I've got to say it's quite something. I've mostly just been using the compressor on the master buss for a bit of tubey goodness, and it excels ... but I also want to avoid the price tag just for the tube flavor if I can and get just a tube library that's comparable (I know, I know .... I'm being picky here).
The CDSM tube pack is ok, but I don't use it much. Gold's tube pre is ok but Cobalt tube pre is unique IMHO. That said, Cupwise C660 and Vari-Mu have tube pre's I use all the time, C660 is thicker while Vari-mu is more hi-fi, and Tim P's Vary Level pre is also worth the listen. FWIW, C660 and Vary Level are also 2 of my go to vocal comps, even with all the Acqua's, so start there.
Old 6th June 2017
  #1862
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I use Tim's comps mainly on vocals, they shine there IMHO, while the Acqua comps are quicker and punchier with much more control, and are better suited for drums, buss work and the 2 buss.

Also remember that Alex B has the whole consoles, we've yet to have an Acqua console. I do feel since Sand AA rules the ITB compressors, but there is still room for improvement.

We have lots of options these days.

As always test for yourself.

Just to check are we talking variants in model?
I'd just like to add a little info about vari level as it took forever to make, hehe-
Vari level is a compensated ratio feedback compressor, there are no others like this. Practically all comps are setup in feedforward in the tech even when they emulate feedback designs. This will slow the reaction time slightly as you get momentary over compression when using fast attacks. As can be seen here using a sine wave, looking in wav editor, a momentary dip happens in attack

That's the nature of old comps. In other words you cannot sample a feedback comp and use feedback in a sample tech at this time as it will change the ratio, so I had to find a way to compensate this in the background in nebula. Usually my approach is a hybrid one, usually trying to avoid any repeat characteristics. For example... you sample a release shape, when used in emulation, this could be wrong as also the release shape can be derived from ratio, you must avoid doubling like the feedback issue, also auto or charging emulation can cause a inverse release shape in sampling (common issue), which I compensated also. So I try to look at the way the comp works first..
Just to note, vari level has a exponential release,as well as charging (auto) this also makes the compression very subtle.

example of exponential slowing of release on vu!-




Example of discharge release on drums, notice vu speeding up (program dependence) after discharge



From some of the approach's needed above, I believe you get more character from every product made, As all topology's are different and require a different approach (background program editing, no standard templates), another example would be opto 3a, Two releases are actually running at the same time in the emulation like the hardware, so again a hybrid approach was needed

Simply the hardware is that speed... It's not that the presets are any slower with what I'm doing..

Take n60a, it is running the same speed as the actual comp. I could however add a faster attack or add ahead to make it faster and less similar.. It was a/b for at whole week making sure it was close as possible in terms of speeds

Last edited by TimP Nebula; 6th June 2017 at 04:58 PM..
Old 6th June 2017
  #1863
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Vari level is a compensated ratio feedback compressor, there are no others like this. Practically all comps are setup in feedforward
Loving the vari level Tim
Old 6th June 2017
  #1864
Gear Addict
 
reggiejaxx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Just to check are we talking variants in model?
a little info-

That's the nature of old comps. In other words you cannot sample a feedback comp and use feedback in a sample tech at this time as it will change the ratio, so I had to find a way to compensate this in the background in nebula. Usually my approach is a hybrid one, usually trying to avoid any repeat characteristics. For example... you sample a release shape, when used in emulation, this could be wrong as also the release shape can be derived from ratio, you must avoid doubling like the feedback issue, also auto or charging emulation can cause a inverse release shape in sampling (common issue), which I compensated also. So I try to look at the way the comp works first..
Just to note, vari level has a exponential release,as well as charging (auto) this also makes the compression very subtle. From some of the approach's needed above, I believe you get more character from every product made, As all topology's are different and require a different approach (background program editing, no standard templates), another example would be opto 3a, Two releases are actually running at the same time in the emulation like the hardware, so again a hybrid approach was needed

Simply the hardware is that speed... It's not that the presets are any slower with what I'm doing..

If Tim can do this sorta thing with older neb tech i shudder to think what can be done with the latest tech, Go ahead and make your own acqua plugs and blow everything else out the water already.

BTW even picked up the simple eq you did it's the bees knees ,thats the closest we've got to a TimP whole plugin and i thank you for it.
Old 6th June 2017
  #1865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
The CDSM tube pack is ok, but I don't use it much. Gold's tube pre is ok but Cobalt tube pre is unique IMHO. That said, Cupwise C660 and Vari-Mu have tube pre's I use all the time, C660 is thicker while Vari-mu is more hi-fi, and Tim P's Vary Level pre is also worth the listen. FWIW, C660 and Vary Level are also 2 of my go to vocal comps, even with all the Acqua's, so start there.
Thanks, Will! I knew I'd get some stellar advice. I've been wanting a 660/670 comp lately as well, so that's a double whammy. Can't wait to use these.
Old 6th June 2017
  #1866
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP Nebula View Post
Just to check are we talking variants in model?
I'd just like to add a little info about vari level as it took forever to make, hehe-
Tim your work is always appreciated, Surge and Vari Level are tools I could not work without today. Your 160 is on my list when I do my next round of library purchases.

When you get a chance, give Cobalt comp a test drive, the amount of control is great. We need you on N4 technology!!
Old 8th June 2017
  #1867
Gear Head
 

What is everyone's top choice (or 2) for reverb?

How do you control the decay time?

Any thoughts on how they compare to LS Seventh Heaven or Verbsuite? I know they are slightly different tech...
Old 8th June 2017
  #1868
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Benj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjam View Post
What is everyone's top choice (or 2) for reverb?

How do you control the decay time?

Any thoughts on how they compare to LS Seventh Heaven or Verbsuite? I know they are slightly different tech...
My favorites might be Cupwise Plate's of Legend and BX-20. Also really enjoy many of his others including the more honky/short custom plate and his Orban spring reverb. Also really like just about everything VNXT had put out as well (seems up there with Cupwise in terms of quality).

Also have seventh heaven and really enjoy it as well, but it feels more static than any Nebula or Algo reverb to me. It also isn't as vivid sounding, but in that it becomes very useful for natural/soft/mellow/invisible spaces.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1869
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj View Post
My favorites might be Cupwise Plate's of Legend and BX-20. Also really enjoy many of his others including the more honky/short custom plate and his Orban spring reverb. Also really like just about everything VNXT had put out as well (seems up there with Cupwise in terms of quality).

Also have seventh heaven and really enjoy it as well, but it feels more static than any Nebula or Algo reverb to me. It also isn't as vivid sounding, but in that it becomes very useful for natural/soft/mellow/invisible spaces.
I'll have to grab Tim's Bundle.

Any experience with AITB's rooms or halls? Considering those as well for spaces. Other suggestions for natural spaces welcome to!

Thanks for your thoughts on SH.

AA's 140 should be interesting too
Old 8th June 2017
  #1870
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjam View Post
I'll have to grab Tim's Bundle.

Any experience with AITB's rooms or halls? Considering those as well for spaces. Other suggestions for natural spaces welcome to!

Thanks for your thoughts on SH.

AA's 140 should be interesting too
I have just about every verb for Nebula including all the AITB, VNXT, Cupwise and STN libraries. I love the AITB packs for real spaces, STN for all the hardware verb boxes and VNXT for the fantastic EMT's, but Cupwise POL 1&2 have that control that make them great options IMHO.

I'm patiently waiting for Ebony with the EMT verb, hopefully AA nails it. With Ebony so close I suggest waiting for it, take it for a demo, then look to Nebula verbs to fill any gaps you may be missing.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1871
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OK, I've decided to pick up another TimP EQ (have Surge already). Trying to decide between Blue 1102 and Vintage Gyrator. Any recommendations?
Old 8th June 2017
  #1872
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gussyg2007's Avatar
Tim P's silk for high end .. sometimes it's the ONLY high end EQ that fits the bill
It's not like I don't have enough choices either
Old 8th June 2017
  #1873
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
With Ebony so close I suggest waiting for it, take it for a demo, then look to Nebula verbs to fill any gaps you may be missing.
Strikes me as a somewhat strange recommendation to someone on the lookout for reverb in general. How likely is it that an EMT plate will fulfill his every reverb want?
Old 8th June 2017
  #1874
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For those curious ...

CDS has 2 libraries that contain REVERBs. I think they are the 'Producer Series'.

note: it has been quite some time since I've needed to use reverb. In Mastering, the situation can arise in specific Restoration projects, where the room the performance has taken place needs to be 're-built' due to intensive 'noise' reduction treatment [a delicate balance]. It was during said projects that I may have gone to the CDS pack.

note 2: the Reverb presets are a part of the overall 'Producer Pak' series. They are not 'entire' library of reverbs. I do remember that they were quite unique, and very organic. Might be worth researching.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1875
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
OK, I've decided to pick up another TimP EQ (have Surge already). Trying to decide between Blue 1102 and Vintage Gyrator. Any recommendations?
Gyrator's 2.8kHz band is one of the greatest things about Nebula IMHO
Old 8th June 2017
  #1876
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Talking Reverb [in general].

My typical reverb template is built on 3 different designs. Rooms, Plates, and Halls.

All three are used to build out all my required dimensions.

AITB probably offers a most complete suite of libraries for NEBULA.

What I look forward to is an advancement in the critical controls of said reverbs on a Preset by Preset basis.
A main issue are the RT times. The only option then available were Presets of different times.

If Acustica-Audio can make the next generational jump of full control of Reverb parameters/per instance, this would be another major processing accomplished.

If 'tail' modulation could be implemented, we might be looking at Bricasti class.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1877
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
Talking Reverb [in general].

My typical reverb template is built on 3 different designs. Rooms, Plates, and Halls.

All three are used to build out all my required dimensions.

AITB probably offers a most complete suite of libraries for NEBULA.

What I look forward to is an advancement in the critical controls of said reverbs on a Preset by Preset basis.
A main issue are the RT times. The only option then available were Presets of different times.

If Acustica-Audio can make the next generational jump of full control of Reverb parameters/per instance, this would be another major processing accomplished.

If 'tail' modulation could be implemented, we might be looking at Bricasti class.
Thats another thing... I know Cupwise has Damper controls. Does that work well in your (others) experience? Or is there another way to control RT (automating output?)?

I suppose that if the aim is for a "real" space (such as AITB), such control isnt - and shouldnt - be possible. Right?

If I wanted RT control, should I look beyond AA/Neb? What do you/others recommend?
Old 8th June 2017
  #1878
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
For those curious ...

CDS has 2 libraries that contain REVERBs. I think they are the 'Producer Series'.

note: it has been quite some time since I've needed to use reverb. In Mastering, the situation can arise in specific Restoration projects, where the room the performance has taken place needs to be 're-built' due to intensive 'noise' reduction treatment [a delicate balance]. It was during said projects that I may have gone to the CDS pack.

note 2: the Reverb presets are a part of the overall 'Producer Pak' series. They are not 'entire' library of reverbs. I do remember that they were quite unique, and very organic. Might be worth researching.

I agree. The Producer Pack reverbs are hard to beat in the box. I think there are only like 10 or 12 options but each one sounds great. Definitely feel real.

The STN verbs are cool too. They can get a little expensive because he charges 3 bucks for each preset, which adds up faster than you think. And you have to really tweak the xml to get the SRC to work properly so that the blinking question mark goes away for longer tails. The tweaks aren't hard but you have to search the entire internet to find the answers. But once you do that, STN is smoother sounding to my ear than Verbsuite.

AITB's are very good too. Many options.

I personally avoid Cupwise verbs because I find that his settings will often use up way too much CPU. And I eventually give up trying to figure out his instructions to avoid that. But that's just me. Some people love his work.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1879
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjam View Post
Thats another thing... I know Cupwise has Damper controls. Does that work well in your (others) experience? Or is there another way to control RT (automating output?)?

I suppose that if the aim is for a "real" space (such as AITB), such control isnt - and shouldnt - be possible. Right?

If I wanted RT control, should I look beyond AA/Neb? What do you/others recommend?
To my ear, the only option that gets kind of close to Nebula quality are the Relab products. They get you about two-thirds of the way there. And they have the control you seek. Go that route or go hardware at the moment.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1880
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Strikes me as a somewhat strange recommendation to someone on the lookout for reverb in general. How likely is it that an EMT plate will fulfill his every reverb want?
Not really when you think about it.

First, I have zero idea what he has currently for reverb or what he prefers.
Second, my suggestion was with Ebony so close to release, is to demo it for free, which he can't do with any of the other Nebula libraries, then decide what needs he has to fill. Demoing the free verb first, especially considering it may be the first Nebula verb with real control (something he's after), seems like the smart play with it dropping so soon.

As always, to each their own.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1881
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Avgatzeblouz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjam View Post
Thats another thing... I know Cupwise has Damper controls. Does that work well in your (others) experience? Or is there another way to control RT (automating output?)?

I suppose that if the aim is for a "real" space (such as AITB), such control isnt - and shouldnt - be possible. Right?

If I wanted RT control, should I look beyond AA/Neb? What do you/others recommend?
I think the damp control of Plates of Legend works amazingly well. I don't see how better the RT could be implemented. Yet, this is the only real reverb control in Nebula. It is almost too bad Ebony is likely to give a close sound, or at least in the same family, instead of bringing something new. But this is the Nebula market. And I guess G and his team will likely put out other reverb types later on.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1882
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgatzeblouz View Post
I think the damp control of Plates of Legend works amazingly well. I don't see how better the RT could be implemented. Yet, this is the only real reverb control in Nebula. It is almost too bad Ebony is likely to give a close sound, or at least in the same family, instead of bringing something new. But this is the Nebula market. And I guess G and his team will likely put out other reverb types later on.
Thank you.

AITB's real spaces may be a good start in interim as I wait to pick Ebony/PoL.
Old 8th June 2017
  #1883
Jus
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Jus's Avatar
My two cents related to couple of things said on this page: even a mention of Gyrator or C660 makes me want to mix some music. Gyrator is indeed fantastic around 2–2.8 area. And I'm happy to hear Will likes C660 for vocals that much. I'm just a hobbyist, so don't take my word, take his; but I don't think I will ever give C660 up as my vocal go-to compressor. Even when I use other comps, I like to add it as the last insert to get a bit of that tone.
Old 9th June 2017
  #1884
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OK, I hope that you guys don't mind me continually asking for advice on specific questions. I've been getting some wonderful, special results lately with the Nebula tools I have and I'm just smitten and hungry for more! And I have been reading through the threads and the AA forums as well!

Thanks to those who said things about Gyrator. I'm going to go with it and combine it with some N14 and MFC instances and so forth .... Oh yes. Now I'm in need of a great tape package. Of course, R2R is the obvious go-to, but with the Gyrator purchase, I'm not sure I'll be able to budget out for it. I'll get it eventually .... In the meantime, are there other tape packages that would work to put on tracks? TimP's J37? Signaltonoize NAG? These options are a bit more affordable for me for the time being. Do you recommend them?
Old 9th June 2017
  #1885
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
OK, I hope that you guys don't mind me continually asking for advice on specific questions. I've been getting some wonderful, special results lately with the Nebula tools I have and I'm just smitten and hungry for more! And I have been reading through the threads and the AA forums as well!

Thanks to those who said things about Gyrator. I'm going to go with it and combine it with some N14 and MFC instances and so forth .... Oh yes. Now I'm in need of a great tape package. Of course, R2R is the obvious go-to, but with the Gyrator purchase, I'm not sure I'll be able to budget out for it. I'll get it eventually .... In the meantime, are there other tape packages that would work to put on tracks? TimP's J37? Signaltonoize NAG? These options are a bit more affordable for me for the time being. Do you recommend them?
I cannot recommend anything Tim P releases enough, and after R2R Tim's tapes would be the next I use. Tim's J37 is a killer library just only one machine, I reach for R2R first mainly because it's 7 tape machines in one library with different tapes. IMHO, quality wise R2R and Tim's Tapes are the tops, and while I'm a big STN verb fan, Nag is of lower quality, I have not used it in years.
Old 9th June 2017
  #1886
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jus View Post
And I'm happy to hear Will likes C660 for vocals that much. I'm just a hobbyist, so don't take my word, take his; but I don't think I will ever give C660 up as my vocal go-to compressor.
For the record, I don't like the C660 for vocals, I love it.... it's saved my azz several times, I do hate cheap Chinese condenser mic recordings, lol. I'll also add that Stay Level from Tim P would be another go-to for vocals, it's not as thick as C660 but it offers another great tone and can compress vocals so silky smooth. They are my 1-2 Nebula vocal comps.

Last, never take mine or anyone else word online...... ALWAYS test for yourself.
Old 9th June 2017
  #1887
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
OK, I hope that you guys don't mind me continually asking for advice on specific questions. I've been getting some wonderful, special results lately with the Nebula tools I have and I'm just smitten and hungry for more! And I have been reading through the threads and the AA forums as well!

Thanks to those who said things about Gyrator. I'm going to go with it and combine it with some N14 and MFC instances and so forth .... Oh yes. Now I'm in need of a great tape package. Of course, R2R is the obvious go-to, but with the Gyrator purchase, I'm not sure I'll be able to budget out for it. I'll get it eventually .... In the meantime, are there other tape packages that would work to put on tracks? TimP's J37? Signaltonoize NAG? These options are a bit more affordable for me for the time being. Do you recommend them?
Get Airwindows IronOxide5. It's free and awesome. And watch out for his coming ToTape for more awesome.
Old 9th June 2017
  #1888
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JulenJVM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Get Airwindows IronOxide5. It's free and awesome. And watch out for his coming ToTape for more awesome.
It is not free per se, Chris needs at least $1/month as support from each of us to carry on releasing those amazing plugins.

And I do agree, Iron Oxide 5 is mindblowing!
Old 9th June 2017
  #1889
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
It is not free per se, Chris needs at least $1/month as support from each of us to carry on releasing those amazing plugins.

And I do agree, Iron Oxide 5 is mindblowing!
Oh, of course, get on that Patreon, everyone should be on that!! But Chris stresses himself if you can't because you are truly skint, have the plugins anyway......
Old 9th June 2017
  #1890
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
It is not free per se, Chris needs at least $1/month as support from each of us to carry on releasing those amazing plugins.

And I do agree, Iron Oxide 5 is mindblowing!
I wish some users of this guy's stuff would put out some sample vids. This whole product line seems esoteric to me and his vids kind of mess with my brain and make me impatient. The music samples he uses are bizarre to my ear making it hard to distinguish "improvement". I keep skipping ahead in the vids hoping I will get to the good part. Yes, I could download and try the plugs myself. I could also fly to China if I want to try real Chinese food. Life is short and willpower is a word for a reason.
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