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Nebula must have
Old 1 week ago
  #7381
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Old 1 week ago
  #7382
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post

Old 1 week ago
  #7383
Lives for gear
This N3 debate is why I keep harping on the importance of trying to achieve backward compatibility within AA plugins. I see this same thing concerning authorizations & installers eventually happening to the different versions of Acqua plugins as well. (not to mention keeping every version available takes up so much hd space)
Old 1 week ago
  #7384
Gear Addict
Anyone else getting issues with latest N4. Have had to roll back to vN000 which was last stable version and recommended by DibiQuadro with their Virgo plugin. Basically latest versions lose all user setting on a session

Would be great if others with issues hit up AA support so they can recognise there’s an issue as I was given a fob off answer. I’m on Win10, Reaper
Old 1 week ago
  #7385
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomheavybeats View Post
Anyone else getting issues with latest N4. Have had to roll back to vN000 which was last stable version and recommended by DibiQuadro with their Virgo plugin. Basically latest versions lose all user setting on a session

Would be great if others with issues hit up AA support so they can recognise there’s an issue as I was given a fob off answer. I’m on Win10, Reaper
My ticket has been closed, they can't reproduce it.
Old 1 week ago
  #7386
Here for the gear
 

The best option is to render/bounce files and projects to keep 100% future proof sessions, other then that its a always a risk. One thing that puzzles me is why when Acqua crashes they still showing Nebula 3 engine and not N4, so this thing G says that code is not available is bit strange... Also if Nebula has almost no sales like G states why not offer a update? I mailed AA support like 1yr ago and was able to get a discount upgrade, this is also a tip to users complaining, get in touch and make it happen.
Old 1 week ago
  #7387
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
My ticket has been closed, they can't reproduce it.
Tickets are never really closed, system does it after you don't reply any more
We can't reproduce the issue in any way
BUT we are trying to collect more data. I'm seriously interested in fixing it.
Old 1 week ago
  #7388
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sv0gthir View Post
No... But if I ask Steinberg for downloads of wavelab 6, they will provide them. If my e-licenser decides to go to dongle heaven, they will provide me, with another license. If I decide to sell my wavelab 6 license, they will also assist me with that too.

Which one of these, can you provide for N3 according to your current plan?

People are getting blinded by getting N4 a bit cheaper, but there are people with many projects running N3, if anything happens to their systems all their work becomes inaccessible. Even asking people to transfer those N3 settings to N4 settings (while we know this is not possible to be done 1:1), it will cost these people so many hours. Who can promise the buffoons who only care to get a cheap N4 license, that the libraries they bought for N3 will be working on N4 FOREVER?

Some people are sadly really short sighted. It feels like America is being bought with trinkets again.

This whole charade is a complete SCANDAL!

What is the reason you cannot access the old code? People (not in gearslutz) are fuming over this. If you think you had too many people opening support tickets for N3, you cannot imagine what is coming if you proceed with that crazy idea of not providing them with a license. There is still time to save face.
Because Steinberg didn't change the protection, so they are not forced to recompile.
But if they were forced to recompile the code, I'm not sure they would do it, or it was possible

In our case we changed everything.
The product you are speaking about doesn't exist any more.
End of the story
Old 1 week ago
  #7389
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by moge View Post
The point is there is really no technical reason why N3 can't continue indefinitely. All people want is an authorization not installers or support.

For those who think abandon ware is ok for any company the reasons why old N3 customers are upset:
Those N3 libraries are unique samplings that are irreplaceable.
You say just go to N4 but the fact is that down the line they can pull N4 support from Alexb Cupwise & Timp with an update which they have never said they wouldn't. If fact, unless the 3rd party (commercial?) developers sign up for the Aquarius model they have been told this WILL happen. Has something changed since this earlier discussion?
Are their negotiations going on in the background now?

As usual the customers have never had a clear direction on Nebula4.
The brief upgrade path that no one knew about. The price rises for N4 with the sales campaign "buy it at much higher prices later unless you buy now' followed by the limited flash sale of which N4 was only a part & N3 buyers missed out on.
The N4 saga has been going on for years They are always going to do "something" but all that is happened is they are proving to be unreliable business partners.

This is a big reason to keep N3 going with authorizations or as freeware.
No, there is a technical reason.
Old 1 week ago
  #7390
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
There would still be an issue with not having access to Nebula-3 ... and that is:

N4 and Neb-3 are NOT 1:1 replaceable due to sonic differences [using the same exact library and settings].

Though I use N4 now, I have Projects that go back well over 10+ years that were Nebula-3 based.
There is no issue if the system doesn't change, otherwise I suggest to commit. Whatever update to whatever plugin could cause sonic differences in this huge amount of time. Unless there is no update at all.

Btw: also hardware gear changes its sonic properties in this huge amount of time. And if you recap it, sound changed anyway.
Old 1 week ago
  #7391
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loji View Post
I can't pull up my old projects from Cubase SX, nor from Logic/ Emagic. Neither of these will even install on anything I can purchase now. I had an opportunity to cross-grade these projects to new supported versions.

I can't pull up my projects that used the DX plug-in format like Spitfish

Nor can I pull up old projects physically on Exabyte discs, or 1640

Old projects on tape have physically deteriorated, a much larger difference in fidelity than N3 to N4 engine changes


I *DO* have the exports, the 'masters' from all those projects. So I keep an archive, which could be loaded and re-exported into a new future format if needed... but the sessions themselves are abandoned.

This is one of the reasons Analog and Digital hardware outperforms ITB digital processing... much greater longevity of investment.

However my hardware GML just had a $800 service calibration cost.
My Hardware Sontec, had a $1000 PSU rebuild
My Knif Soma had a $300 tube replacement .... all this year

$400 for a new N4 engine is part of the costs of doing business to maintain compatibility / fidelity.

If an individual is doing this as a career, this is an investment in tools. Treat it as such

If an individual is not commercial and 'doing it for the love' and simply wishes to make good music to fulfill their soul ... EXCELLENT! in which case, there is no responsibility to a client to maintain indefinite backups. An individual musician may want to revisit a mix 20-years down the line. I suggest to export stems, and you will have a future-proof 'mix' for as long as PCM audio is supported.

AA should absolutely offer a cross-grade to existing N3 users who wish to update to N4, this is pretty industry standard. But IMO are under no obligation to support N3 indefinitely. This is simply not possible unless the company controls the entire platform (they run on general-purpose computing platforms Mac/PC ..they don't control a damn thing, and are at the mercy of MUCH larger industries)

AA's standing discount of 20%/ 30% / 50% is actually about on-par for what other companies charge as 'upgrade' fee's when releasing a new product .... the discount is already built-in, and compounds with time.


Obsolescence sucks. . . I feel your pain there. but it's part of the game.

I'd have to say Metric Halo has done the best job of any hardware maker I've ever seen 'future proofing' their devices
Exactly
Old 1 week ago
  #7392
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceemusic View Post
This N3 debate is why I keep harping on the importance of trying to achieve backward compatibility within AA plugins. I see this same thing concerning authorizations & installers eventually happening to the different versions of Acqua plugins as well. (not to mention keeping every version available takes up so much hd space)
There is not an issue really in acqua because they share the same protection and engine backward compatibility, and we access the library code, and it is the same for all of them. Basically if we support a single one, then we support all of them.
N4 is an acqua too.
Aquarius makes the management full automatic, and it supports and validates the transition to new OS.
Just a single example: as soon as Aquarius is supported in Catalina, this new incredible can-of-worms-OS will be supported for all products (ever hosted in Aquarius) at once (with the limitations imposed by the OS if any). It will be an incredible achievement if you ask to me

Nebula 3 is a product pre-aquarius, and it is almost the only one. A very limited amount of acquas were never hosted in Aquarius, but still their license system belongs to the new aut way. So the only exception is nebula 3 and previous. Nebula 3 was abandoned for this exact reason, it was not compatible with strict Aquarius requirements.
Old 1 week ago
  #7393
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agustin Mongelli View Post
Only the possibility of generating new licenses slots if necessary. I think that is what we all need.
No issues about this, we can add license slots to products based on license slots
Nebula 3 is not based on license slots really, since the license is generated manually. Problem is not about license slots here, but about supporting an old product which is stopping working in new OS, and where the authorization sometimes fails - so a license request is leading to a support request
Old 1 week ago
  #7394
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
You misunderstand, I have not used N3 in a while and I'm all N4 today. I've seriously recommitted myself to hardware for some of the reasons you stated, and a few others. I'm loving a hybrid workflow maximizing the best of both digital and analog.

I'm just speaking out for all those that will be needlessly negatively affected by AA's shortsighted action with N3. This one decision is going to hurt AA's reputation and make it hard for many to fully trust AA again.
A company several years ago updated a product and ceased to update the previous release.
It happens all the day long in the software realm, it is not a matter of reputation.
In this iPhone, I paid for software which I can't use or install any more: for example I bought the old TomTom app, and it doesn't install on new phones, they forced me to buy a "TomTom go" subscription. But I discovered I can't install the old app in old phones too.
Problem is that the old phone is not supported any more: I can't update it. Those applications I paid for are lost. Forever. And they all have a good reputation, they have giant teams of programmers.

Nobody cares when apple releases a new OS which is creating huge incompatibility issues on 99% of audio developers, nobody cares about "apple reputation" but it easy to blame a small company which is trying to support it anyway, this is the world we are living on
Meanwhile my email inbox is full of messages telling me to not upgrade to "Catalina"
Old 1 week ago
  #7395
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixcore View Post
The best option is to render/bounce files and projects to keep 100% future proof sessions, other then that its a always a risk. One thing that puzzles me is why when Acqua crashes they still showing Nebula 3 engine and not N4, so this thing G says that code is not available is bit strange... Also if Nebula has almost no sales like G states why not offer a update? I mailed AA support like 1yr ago and was able to get a discount upgrade, this is also a tip to users complaining, get in touch and make it happen.
We never abandoned the n3 interface. All acqua are basically multi-instance n3, but with an update engine and a new authorization protocol. This multi-instance engine is actually used by n4, which is wrapping it.
What we are not supporting any more is
- nebula3, based on old and not maintained engines
- the old authorization method, based on init files

We can "maybe" solve the first point of the list, adding the old interface to actual n4 users. Also it would fix incompatibility issues with new OS. Also it would be supported in Aquarius. Actually we are brainstorming this solution

We can't solve the second point of the list. This method is based on code we don't access any more and we want to cease the support completely. It is ancient, ugly, error prone, and it is causing issues everywhere. We should support it in old OS only. But users are updating to new OS and they are asking support. On the other side, I don't want my support team spend their time on debug VMware machines resumed from the past, trying to debug nebula in Windows XP. Time to move on.
Old 1 week ago
  #7396
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
BUT we are trying to collect more data. I'm seriously interested in fixing it.
I am yet to be asked any questions apart from the basics that apparently didn't help much.
Old 1 week ago
  #7397
Lives for gear
 
Avgatzeblouz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
There is not an issue really in acqua because they share the same protection and engine backward compatibility, and we access the library code, and it is the same for all of them. Basically if we support a single one, then we support all of them.
N4 is an acqua too.
Aquarius makes the management full automatic, and it supports and validates the transition to new OS.
Just a single example: as soon as Aquarius is supported in Catalina, this new incredible can-of-worms-OS will be supported for all products (ever hosted in Aquarius) at once (with the limitations imposed by the OS if any). It will be an incredible achievement if you ask to me

Nebula 3 is a product pre-aquarius, and it is almost the only one. A very limited amount of acquas were never hosted in Aquarius, but still their license system belongs to the new aut way. So the only exception is nebula 3 and previous. Nebula 3 was abandoned for this exact reason, it was not compatible with strict Aquarius requirements.
So does this mean old products like BLUE won't be able to be authorized anymore as well ? Is there any old Acqua that's being abandoned as well ?
Old 1 week ago
  #7398
Gear Head
 

G. My last post contained mainly my opinions but I did ask a question that has never been answered directly. I will rephrase it.
Bose first asked it some months ago during discussions about the future of the third party developers who at that time appeared to not be interested in the Aquarius model. The question fundamentally was,

while their product works currently in nebula 4 are Alexb Cupwise & Timp libraries going to be accessible in future upgrades of nebula 4. (I am not talking about customer care or anything like that)

Some months ago you were saying that unless they paid a royalty and had "training" sessions they would have their access limited eventually.

In my last post I asked "has something changed since this earlier discussion?" in another words what timeframe are you looking at before cutting them off or have you changed your mind and their programs will still be able to be loaded in Nebula4 in the for-see able future?

Last edited by moge; 1 week ago at 02:30 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #7399
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
My ticket has been closed, they can't reproduce it.
Just got email and fix on way apparently
Old 1 week ago
  #7400
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
No issues about this, we can add license slots to products based on license slots
Nebula 3 is not based on license slots really, since the license is generated manually. Problem is not about license slots here, but about supporting an old product which is stopping working in new OS, and where the authorization sometimes fails - so a license request is leading to a support request
So issue the license and don't offer the support, done. Nobody is asking for support, only their license. You are able to generate them at present, as users have shown here very recently, so what prevents you from doing this in the future?
Old 1 week ago
  #7401
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by moge View Post
G. My last post contained mainly my opinions but I did ask a question that has never been answered directly. I will rephrase it.
Bose first asked it some months ago during discussions about the future of the third party developers who at that time appeared to not be interested in the Aquarius model. The question fundamentally was,

while their product works currently in nebula 4 are Alexb Cupwise & Timp libraries going to be accessible in future upgrades of nebula 4. (I am not talking about customer care or anything like that)

Some months ago you were saying that unless they paid a royalty and had "training" sessions they would have their access limited eventually.

In my last post I asked "has something changed since this earlier discussion?" in another words what timeframe are you looking at before cutting them off or have you changed your mind and their programs will still be able to be loaded in Nebula4 in the for-see able future?
Having invested a lot of money in Nebula (3, server, n4) and a lot in libraries I would like to know this as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #7402
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Respectfully G, I'm not sure why you posted this as I was responding to another post..... but since you want to keep making illogical excuses to justify your actions on this..... you wanna poke the bear, let's go there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
A company several years ago updated a product and ceased to update the previous release.
Please stop using straw man logic, you are NEVER going to convince anyone here by using the lame excuse that "other companies do it", so that justifies your company to do it. Stop FOLLOWING other bad companies policies, focus on what your company can do and LEAD this industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
It happens all the day long in the software realm, it is not a matter of reputation.
You really need to change your mindset G....... It's all about reputation. You've developed a platform based on incomplete tools that you are constantly developing and upgrading. None of your products are finished so AA's customers have to trust you and AA. Without trust and a positive reputation your business model will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
In this iPhone, I paid for software which I can't use or install any more: for example I bought the old TomTom app, and it doesn't install on new phones, they forced me to buy a "TomTom go" subscription. But I discovered I can't install the old app in old phones too.
Problem is that the old phone is not supported any more: I can't update it. Those applications I paid for are lost. Forever. And they all have a good reputation, they have giant teams of programmers.
This is what confuses me the most..... you understand the frustration of planed obsolescence yet you choose to do the same thing? I remember when you and AA were leaders, you've decided to follow bad philosophies and become part of the problem. Why not man up and be part of the solution, like you once were?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Nobody cares when apple releases a new OS which is creating huge incompatibility issues on 99% of audio developers, nobody cares about "apple reputation" but it easy to blame a small company which is trying to support it anyway, this is the world we are living on
Meanwhile my email inbox is full of messages telling me to not upgrade to "Catalina"
Hell yeah we care. Apple has lost a ton of market share because customers vote with their money. If it wasn't for Iphones Apple would be in chapter 11 and gone. Don't follow Apple, Steve Jobs is no longer leading it and they are slowly dying as a company with every crap OS they release, lol.

So.....
Why were you shortsighted and not have a positive solution to N3 customers? All you had to do is make a version of N3 without needed authorization (again), problem solved, reputation saved, everyone's happy and AA wins.

STOP using what other companies do as an excuse to justify your illogical actions!

AA's reputation is the key to your companies lifespan.

You know I love AA and I respect you. I've given you the benefit of the doubt the past few years, but your shortsighted N3 solutions have lost you respect from your customers. Telling us you no longer have N3 code is just an excuse that makes you look unprofessional, did your dog eat your homework too? LOL

1. Get your company in order and protect your reputation.
2. Fix your half azz customer support.
3. Fix your unusable meters like you said you would.
4. Release finished products with backward compatibility.
5. Re-read you mission statement as you've lost your way with this N3 no plan, plan.
Old 1 week ago
  #7403
Gear Maniac
 
plexus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Respectfully G, I'm not sure why you posted this as I was responding to another post..... but since you want to keep making illogical excuses to justify your actions on this..... you wanna poke the bear, let's go there.[snip]plan.
100% agree. I've been an apple customer since 1981 and I am now working on migrating away from Apple completely. Their hardware sucks, their software sucks and their prices are ridiculously high and they offer crappy customer support. I refuse to buy new apple hardware and will struggle along with old hardware until it gets to a point where I need to move everything to windoze. Why? Apple sucks. I can give more details but that would derail the thread.

The N3 issue is carried over to N4 in that N4 is also not usable for many users. It's a use-case thing. In my use-case N4 is not usable, I've tried to reason with AA about it and in that process got doxed and a complete dead-end with AA and their exuses. I no longer use N4 and it's up for sale.

I refused to buy any AA products however during that 70% off sale I did with the understanding that I should expect no support, help, sympathy or otherwise for the products I bought based on past AA experience. In otherwords, buy as-is. The price was low enough to do so. The Acqua products work way better than N4 for me. Too bad for me I sunk so much money into N4 libraries.

I advise people to avoid AA as much as I to avoid Apple, pretty much for the same reasons - [struggling to explain here diplomatically so I'll just leave this blank since I can't find any words that don't come across as insults]
Old 1 week ago
  #7404
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
None of your products are finished
Not my impression, when is a product finished, does that exist anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Why were you shortsighted and not have a positive solution to N3 customers? All you had to do is make a version of N3 without needed authorization (again), problem solved, reputation saved, everyone's happy and AA wins.
You should understand that Acustica has to make some money in order to survive an continue delivering great new products, why is that so hard to get?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
AA's reputation is the key to your companies lifespan.
Im not buying Acustica plugins because of the reputation, of course the reputation should be ok and it IS the case, your trying to imply something else here, which is pretty lame imo
Old 1 week ago
  #7405
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holographic View Post
Not my impression, when is a product finished, does that exist anyway?

You should understand that Acustica has to make some money in order to survive an continue delivering great new products, why is that so hard to get?

Im not buying Acustica plugins because of the reputation, of course the reputation should be ok and it IS the case, your trying to imply something else here, which is pretty lame imo
Don't be supporting these AA excuses because the company hired some backward thinking people that they consider brilliant,all these hassle for N3 was to snob the old third party libraries and the developers becuase N4 is actually N3 with a new skin.

The sonic difference is less than 2% so they planned to make some more money with introduction of N4 which was downgraded with retrictions that is not clever on the customers side.

Am using N3 On current windows 10 and it is stable with no issues than N4 which crush sometimes.luckily i kept all my authorizations when i bought N3.

We understand if you wanna make some money for the survival of AA but removing the protection from N3 and leaving it as a freeware wouldn't harm your N4 and Aquarius if they are any better. but if it is the same thing in a new gui then you are just robbing anyone that bought N3 without giving them some cheap upgrading path or free from authorization.

Bad advisors are to be blamed and if a company keep this policies of apple and co then they must be ready for the repercussion,apple and co might still survive loosing billions but not sure about a plugin company with harsh behavior.

The competition is real and since i got the new IK tapes i just stopped using Taupe from AA,IK is in comfortable lead on the Tapes side of things now and if the same technology is put into their new compressors and equalizers then the flexibilities makes hardwares even obsolete in my world.

Listen to learn and don't be offended.
Old 1 week ago
  #7406
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Few Knobs View Post
Bad advisors are to be blamed and if a company keep this policies of apple and co then they must be ready for the repercussion,apple and co might still survive loosing billions but not sure about a plugin company with harsh behavior.
Harsh behavior, you must be kidding me, you mean the 75% promo a few weeks ago? that was your upgrade path for N3 btw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Few Knobs View Post
The competition is real and since i got the new IK tapes i just stopped using Taupe from AA,IK is in comfortable lead on the Tapes side of things now and if the same technology is put into their new compressors and equalizers then the flexibilities makes hardwares even obsolete in my world.
The IK tape is pretty good but it still sounds like an algo to me, im pretty sure AA will have an edge for some time, and they are constantly improving

Quote:
Originally Posted by Few Knobs View Post
Listen to learn and don't be offended.
No worry, im not offended, but im getting sick of the "i need everything for free" mentality, this is not sustainable
Old 1 week ago
  #7407
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by holographic View Post
No worry, im not offended, but im getting sick of the "i need everything for free" mentality, this is not sustainable
You are missing a huge fact here, nobody wants anything for free..... people who paid for N3 just want to be able to continue to use it moving forward. Nobody wants support, just the ability to use the tool they already paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.
Old 6 days ago
  #7408
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
You are missing a huge fact here, nobody wants anything for free..... people who paid for N3 just want to be able to continue to use it moving forward. Nobody wants support, just the ability to use the tool they already paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.
But come on let's be real. Once it goes license-less it is pretty much free...
Old 6 days ago
  #7409
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scandal View Post
But come on let's be real. Once it goes license-less it is pretty much free...
Ok let's be real, AA already released a version some 5 years back without protection, it was all over the net and yet in that same 5 year period AA thrived. So releasing a license free version would have made logical sense for all the thousands of paying customers who will still need compatibility for older projects.

Since AA no longer has the code for N3 and can't offer paying customers licenses, it is what it is.
Old 6 days ago
  #7410
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by scandal View Post
But come on let's be real. Once it goes license-less it is pretty much free...
That's ok. G has said many times AA revenue comes from aquas not nebula these days, so making N3 free would just help the community and restore the AA reputation.

AA doesn't factor nebula into their bottom line too much and get nothing from N3 devs. But AA exists today because of it.

They have other plans, so awesomeness would reign once again if they gave away a product of little value to them but of great value to a whole sub community.
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