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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 12th April 2018
  #3421
Gear Nut
 

Hey Stella645, the network support was already announced with the latest N4 update. Frankly, I don't know enough to comment more than what I said. But it was already listed on our forum/website. More info to follow.
Old 12th April 2018
  #3422
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

My apologies if this has been covered here before and I missed it, but is there yet thorough documentation/manual updates on using the new features of this latest N4 update, or is it so straight forward no reading/learning is necessary?

I came to Nebula just after N4 was released so I have no experience with (N3) setups and I don’t want to download an update that includes a bunch of functionality I won’t know how to use, and will become frustrated trying.

. . . and for the record, what are setups/presets going to give me that running N4 inside something like MetaPlugin or PatchWorks won’t?
Old 12th April 2018
  #3423
Gear Nut
 
Cali.bre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acustica Press View Post
OK, I just went through nearly 100 posts here in the New Product Alert part of GS to find the attached quotes from Zaphod when N4 was first released. Really, at this point I can only defend what was already said. Even if the requested feature was marked as something we want to do, it was very clear that this will be of much lower priority and that we promised and released a few days as the first Aqua library. As to what other differences are there between N3 and N4 - all I can say is that since its release there were 200+ updates. I'll try to get a list of all these improvements (yes, some were just bug fixes) and post here as soon as I get a chance.

Actually, on the AA forum, before N4 was released we were told "multi-load" would be rolled out in Feb 2017. Later this was rebuffed via the use of semantics and we were told the terms "multi-rack" and "multi-load" meant totally different things...
Go figure
Old 12th April 2018
  #3424
Gear Nut
 

To reply to this I need to go over the thread there (now that you say I will), but I can tell you that what we internally call multiload is indeed the support for 3rd party Aqua libraries.

EDIT: I did spend quite some time browsing and searching through our forum and these two threads (one was made before the release of N4 and the other just around the release).

Nebula4, new details -
Nebula4 -

I cannot find anything that points at any form of dodgy or wrong by accident statements made by AA (not that I have ever had any doubt in the honesty of my colleagues, but a check is always a good practice and mistakes can happen). Now, yes, we talk of multiload of Aqua libraries. And yes, I can see how someone may misunderstand this. But these really are different things. And from the comments I found there I can only see that Zaphod didn't make any false promises.

I am sorry if there was any misunderstanding! I am here now to try to communicate things clearer and in better English. This indeed is the reason to post the N4 vs N4 Player comparison table.

And yes, please feel free to ask about other bits of info that may be unclear. I follow forums and depending on my workload/knowledge on the subject usually answer quickly.

Last edited by Acustica Press; 12th April 2018 at 06:04 PM.. Reason: see my message
Old 12th April 2018
  #3425
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali.bre View Post
Actually, on the AA forum, before N4 was released we were told "multi-load" would be rolled out in Feb 2017. Later this was rebuffed via the use of semantics and we were told the terms "multi-rack" and "multi-load" meant totally different things...
Go figure
multi-load means nebula can load multi instance libraries. Actually bronze is composed by many instances, it is a multiload library.
An user guessed badly the meaning, and we explained the difference quite immediatly, two years ago.
When it was released, multi-load was explained very well, in many different places. We can't control what users are guessing wthout reading our official statements, for example if they report bad concepts on boards without reading what we write on the official board.
I understand an user can create confusion sometimes, so please check always who is posting, if it is an official statement or not. I created the term "multi-rack" in order to explain the difference of semantics.
I can't exclude in the future nebula will load MORE skins at once (racks), but it requires huge efforts on the GUI side: how to connect nebulas, how to edit connections and so on. It's in my plans, but I don't have a timeframe. A basic implementation would be a waste of time: we would sum latencies, offering a simple serial connection. You can do the same things using a lot of free chainers, and many professional chainers are way more advanced than that. So I don't see why we should do it, in the way that original poster described. To my knowledge, rack based plugins are a bit less popular nowdays, because you can't control very well what you have in each single cluster, especially from the daw mixer. This is my personal opinion, I don't see why we should do it at all if we don't collapse latencies - we can't do it today without editing xml and samples, period.

About client/server and acquas: actually we COULD release the feature, but we are debugging the resulting cpu load.
I'm not satisfied about results so you have to wait a bit. Meanwhile we released setups and we moved successfully nebula to aquarius
Old 12th April 2018
  #3426
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
multi-load means nebula can load multi instance libraries. Actually bronze is composed by many instances, it is a multiload library.
An user guessed badly the meaning, and we explained the difference quite immediatly, two years ago.
Back then was a free N4 player mentioned that would run these multi rack devices though? I don't think so.

Its this bringing out of a free player that makes me feel a bit like a mug
Old 12th April 2018
  #3427
Gear Nut
 

Just started using Setups with Nebula3 and I so regret waiting this long to do it. It loads much faster and I don't have to open the plugin to know what I am using on each track.

TimP's skins are really great too, AlexB's not so much (but fine).

Regarding the N4 discussion: I'm going to sell my license. It crashes Sonar and I don't really see the point of working that out if Nebula3 works really well (especially now).
Old 12th April 2018
  #3428
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
My apologies if this has been covered here before and I missed it, but is there yet thorough documentation/manual updates on using the new features of this latest N4 update, or is it so straight forward no reading/learning is necessary?

I came to Nebula just after N4 was released so I have no experience with (N3) setups and I don’t want to download an update that includes a bunch of functionality I won’t know how to use, and will become frustrated trying.

. . . and for the record, what are setups/presets going to give me that running N4 inside something like MetaPlugin or PatchWorks won’t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomheavybeats View Post
Back then was a free N4 player mentioned that would run these multi rack devices though? I don't think so.

Its this bringing out of a free player that makes me feel a bit like a mug
Player runs only libraries created by official 3rd party developers, so it is a different market
You cannot tune anything there, you can't load commercial libraries from nebula3 developers
Old 12th April 2018
  #3429
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by manymanyhaha View Post
Just started using Setups with Nebula3 and I so regret waiting this long to do it. It loads much faster and I don't have to open the plugin to know what I am using on each track.

TimP's skins are really great too, AlexB's not so much (but fine).

Regarding the N4 discussion: I'm going to sell my license. It crashes Sonar and I don't really see the point of working that out if Nebula3 works really well (especially now).
Check the latest update, it is really stable here
N3, depending on the release date, can be really ancient. Basically it can't run several libraries properly if the engine is outdated. You will not be able to run several new ones too.
Btw n4 implements the setup functionality, and its updating is more and more automatic
Old 12th April 2018
  #3430
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Player runs only libraries created by official 3rd party developers, so it is a different market
You cannot tune anything there, you can't load old libraries
I see you quoted me but I don’t see an answer to my question. I did check the N4 page on the Acustica website, but it still says “it will be available in the next few days“; I couldn’t actually find a link to download the manual. My question is about the update for the “full” N4 - I’m not using N4 Player.

Last edited by wjmwpg; 12th April 2018 at 11:17 PM.. Reason: Clarification.
Old 12th April 2018
  #3431
Quote:
Originally Posted by manymanyhaha View Post
Just started using Setups with Nebula3 and I so regret waiting this long to do it. It loads much faster and I don't have to open the plugin to know what I am using on each track.
Would you care sharing what that Setup thing is and how to use it ?
Old 12th April 2018
  #3432
Lives for gear
 
swartzfeger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Btw n4 implements the setup functionality, and its updating is more and more automatic
One thing that's unclear to me that I probably misunderstand --

I love N3 -- but the global/persistent skin setting was incredibly irritating. I eventually learned to use setups, but it was a ridiculous amount of work simply to have a dedicated skin 'stick' to the proper library.

Does N4 support skin settings without having to use setups? When I load Library A, I want skin A loaded. When I load Library B, I want skin B loaded. I want to quickly go to the MAST page and set the skin individually for each library... or must we still use setups with magic codes etc to simply have skins load properly?
Old 13th April 2018
  #3433
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
ok Nik will be more exhaustive, but yes, n4 skins libraries without setups. So, to be honest, you would not need setup: n4 customers survived without this feature at all, even if I agree the feature is handy for reducing the loading time.

Anyway we moved things further, allowing the creation of real acqua plugins starting from nebula libraries. We'll release the setup feature of acqua libraries on next month (Franci is waiting for a small fix on my side).
- Read carefully: acqua libraries vs nebula libraries.
At this point there will be the real revolution, aquarius will setup things at installation time, automatically. Before the end of the year you'll use daily this feature, for all n4 libraries.

Nik (and Franci) will explain maybe in a better way. Sorry if I'm very quick on forums nowadays, but modula is taking all my time
Old 13th April 2018
  #3434
Lives for gear
 
Patrick_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
ok Nik will be more exhaustive, but yes, n4 skins libraries without setups. So, to be honest, you would not need setup: n4 customers survived without this feature at all, even if I agree the feature is handy for reducing the loading time.

Anyway we moved things further, allowing the creation of real acqua plugins starting from nebula libraries. We'll release the setup feature of acqua libraries on next month (Franci is waiting for a small fix on my side).
- Read carefully: acqua libraries vs nebula libraries.
At this point there will be the real revolution, aquarius will setup things at installation time, automatically. Before the end of the year you'll use daily this feature, for all n4 libraries.

Nik (and Franci) will explain maybe in a better way. Sorry if I'm very quick on forums nowadays, but modula is taking all my time
Ohhhhhhh REALLY!!!!!!
Old 13th April 2018
  #3435
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acustica Press View Post
... creating an Aqua library (say Bronze EQ with multiple bands and dedicated skin) is not a trivial thing...this is a feature only possible with the later Cores and open to official developers...
So, does that mean that with the new N4 tech you can create a library with more than one instance within an instance, if you understand what I mean, i.e. would it be possible to create all the instances of Silk eq in one instance?

If so that would be so good! Thank you.
Old 13th April 2018
  #3436
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Short answer

Yes if you are a developer
No if you are a standard user
Old 13th April 2018
  #3437
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
My apologies if this has been covered here before and I missed it, but is there yet thorough documentation/manual updates on using the new features of this latest N4 update, or is it so straight forward no reading/learning is necessary?

I came to Nebula just after N4 was released so I have no experience with (N3) setups and I don’t want to download an update that includes a bunch of functionality I won’t know how to use, and will become frustrated trying.

. . . and for the record, what are setups/presets going to give me that running N4 inside something like MetaPlugin or PatchWorks won’t?
Hey wjmwpg,

Yes, the manual has to be ready any time soon. I've asked to be kept updated (London here, not Lodi) and I'll let you know as soon as this is available.

As to a basic overview of what you can do with Setups, please refer to my post #3415 on the previous page. There is a short video and description.

There is a big difference between using N4 Setups and, say, PatchWorks. With Patchworks you can combine a few plug-ins and 'create' one. Setups will not allow you to do this (at least for the time being) - you cannot combine multiple N4 instances, instead you can have multiple versions of the same single instance N4 plug-in all set it up in a very different way. Let me explain this...

Now, you know that currently N4 can only load one band of an EQ, unless we are talking about a created by official developers Aqua library, which takes time to assemble and can load all the bands of an EQ within one single N4 instance (first one that came out very recently is the Bronze EQ Nebula - DiBiQuadro - Bronze - Acustica Audio)

Well, people want us to open this to customers, not only developers, and provide an option to do this inside N4 - but it is not a simple task in terms of codding.

OK, so what is the issue with using Patchworks to do this? - because all it does is to add together plug-ins, and in our case this means higher CPU load and latency. On the contrary in an Aqua library the impulse responses for the EQ will be coalesced into a single 1 and only then executed, so this will save CPU and latency (by quite a bit).

The trouble is that such functionality inside N4 is difficult to code and takes a lot of time. But you asked about Setups and it is intended for a very different use...

The real benefit of Setups starts to show when you have more libraries. Imagine that you have 10 EQ libraries, 5 reverbs, 5 echos, 5 flagers, etc. But you really use most of the time a specific EQ and a specific Plate. With Setups you can quickly create and manage copies of the N4 plug-in (new setups) that are fully dedicated to a specific library. So you can have a N4 plug-in fully dedicated to your fav EQ or Plate library. Why?

• you can name this Setup 'Plate' or 'EQ X', and so it appears this way in your mixer
• you can ask from this new setup to load a specific library with a specific skin by default
• this new specific setup will NOT load all of your other libraries, which takes time, especially if you have many of these (so you get much faster load when you insert that in your DAW's mixer)
• you can setup different buffers for each setup - so for your Plate you can go higher with the buffer, but for the EQ lower. You could even have 'Plate' low and high latency versions depending on how hungry your mix is or what sample rate you work at...

So really, I don't see how this isn't exciting, but now you have an easy way inside N4 to create and manage endless number of custom plug-ins based on N4...
Old 13th April 2018
  #3438
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acustica Press View Post

So really, I don't see how this isn't exciting, but now you have an easy way inside N4 to create and manage endless number of custom plug-ins based on N4...
I'm an AA fanboy and I'm starting to get annoyed. As said above, a few clicks in N4 is all it takes to load library, setups not a big deal. Still no mention of how bringing out free N4 player a bit of a middle finger to people paying big money for N4 when I could have stuck with N3 pro. Just keep babbling on about how great you are all the time. Ugh now I sound like a twat. Maybe I am. TimP rules!
Old 13th April 2018
  #3439
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomheavybeats View Post
I'm an AA fanboy and I'm starting to get annoyed. As said above, a few clicks in N4 is all it takes to load library, setups not a big deal. Still no mention of how bringing out free N4 player a bit of a middle finger to people paying big money for N4 when I could have stuck with N3 pro. Just keep babbling on about how great you are all the time. Ugh now I sound like a twat. Maybe I am. TimP rules!
Nah youre not, were quite a few sharper pen here that think like you. Just keepin mind they are not different from any business. If they were to make hamburgers like mcdonald, they would certainly state how their beef is 100% real beef. It's just hype and marketing bull****. Just dont be fooled by them. Stop believing them to be clearer.

The Fox and the Crow (Aesop - Wikipedia)

Old 13th April 2018
  #3440
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
Nah youre not, were quite a few sharper pen here that think like you. Just keepin mind they are not different from any business. If they were to make hamburgers like mcdonald, they would certainly state how their beef is 100% real beef. It's just hype and marketing bull****. Just dont be fooled by them. Stop believing them to be clearer.

The Fox and the Crow (Aesop - Wikipedia)

Haha nice man. Yeah I guess just a business thing, but they know we're not idiots and don't need to be spoken too like consumer drones. It was their promo for Crimson saying it was the best saturation ever produced on the planet or whatever and I tried and I started to consider maybe they talk a bit of ****e
Old 13th April 2018
  #3441
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acustica Press View Post
Hey wjmwpg,

Yes, the manual has to be ready any time soon. I've asked to be kept updated (London here, not Lodi) and I'll let you know as soon as this is available.

As to a basic overview of what you can do with Setups, please refer to my post #3415 on the previous page. There is a short video and description.

There is a big difference between using N4 Setups and, say, PatchWorks. With Patchworks you can combine a few plug-ins and 'create' one. Setups will not allow you to do this (at least for the time being) - you cannot combine multiple N4 instances, instead you can have multiple versions of the same single instance N4 plug-in all set it up in a very different way. Let me explain this...

Now, you know that currently N4 can only load one band of an EQ, unless we are talking about a created by official developers Aqua library, which takes time to assemble and can load all the bands of an EQ within one single N4 instance (first one that came out very recently is the Bronze EQ Nebula - DiBiQuadro - Bronze - Acustica Audio)

Well, people want us to open this to customers, not only developers, and provide an option to do this inside N4 - but it is not a simple task in terms of codding.

OK, so what is the issue with using Patchworks to do this? - because all it does is to add together plug-ins, and in our case this means higher CPU load and latency. On the contrary in an Aqua library the impulse responses for the EQ will be coalesced into a single 1 and only then executed, so this will save CPU and latency (by quite a bit).

The trouble is that such functionality inside N4 is difficult to code and takes a lot of time. But you asked about Setups and it is intended for a very different use...

The real benefit of Setups starts to show when you have more libraries. Imagine that you have 10 EQ libraries, 5 reverbs, 5 echos, 5 flagers, etc. But you really use most of the time a specific EQ and a specific Plate. With Setups you can quickly create and manage copies of the N4 plug-in (new setups) that are fully dedicated to a specific library. So you can have a N4 plug-in fully dedicated to your fav EQ or Plate library. Why?

• you can name this Setup 'Plate' or 'EQ X', and so it appears this way in your mixer
• you can ask from this new setup to load a specific library with a specific skin by default
• this new specific setup will NOT load all of your other libraries, which takes time, especially if you have many of these (so you get much faster load when you insert that in your DAW's mixer)
• you can setup different buffers for each setup - so for your Plate you can go higher with the buffer, but for the EQ lower. You could even have 'Plate' low and high latency versions depending on how hungry your mix is or what sample rate you work at...

So really, I don't see how this isn't exciting, but now you have an easy way inside N4 to create and manage endless number of custom plug-ins based on N4...
Thanks for that Acustica Press. That is a very clear rundown of what this update does, and doesn’t do. I did review back a few pages looking for my answer, but I missed your post with the video, so I must have blinked as it went by.

Indeed, please post here when the manual becomes available.
Old 13th April 2018
  #3442
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

I’m thinking about giving this N4 update a whirl today. I’m not seeing much posting about crashes in the last two days, so should I presume these bugs have been resolved (and install should be safe), or are all you affected quietly still awaiting the fixes?
Old 13th April 2018
  #3443
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
I’m thinking about giving this N4 update a whirl today. I’m not seeing much posting about crashes in the last two days, so should I presume these bugs have been resolved (and install should be safe), or are all you affected quietly still awaiting the fixes?
I installed the last N4 version yesterday. No more crashes now, the 1421506 engine seems as stable as 1417006, but of course I've used this new version just a couple of days.

Just pay attention: before upgrading save the old N4.xml (expecially if you have alternativedatapaths or other custom tags), because Acquarius overwrites it with a new one (but just this time only: from the next version the xml file will be mantained).
Anyway, if anything goes wrong, you should also be able to revert back to the previous installation through aquarius (or replace the engine again, as in Zabukowsi tip).
Old 13th April 2018
  #3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomheavybeats View Post
Haha nice man. Yeah I guess just a business thing, but they know we're not idiots and don't need to be spoken too like consumer drones. It was their promo for Crimson saying it was the best saturation ever produced on the planet or whatever and I tried and I started to consider maybe they talk a bit of ****e
Of course they put the full talksh!t mode on when they release something or talk about their hard worked product. I dont think they are the one to blame, I've learned a lot about charmers when I was younger on my trip in south america.
Old 13th April 2018
  #3445
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
I installed the last N4 version yesterday. No more crashes now, the 1421506 engine seems as stable as 1417006, but of course I've used this new version just a couple of days.

Just pay attention: before upgrading save the old N4.xml (expecially if you have alternativedatapaths or other custom tags), because Acquarius overwrites it with a new one (but just this time only: from the next version the xml file will be mantained).
Anyway, if anything goes wrong, you should also be able to revert back to the previous installation through aquarius (or replace the engine again, as in Zabukowsi tip).
Many thanks Robertom - I’ll take the plunge with these tips in mind.
Old 13th April 2018
  #3446
For those who have updated to the most recent/stable N4 version, how is the gain reduction needle movement in Violet? What about with 3rd party comps with skins, like any of TimP's? Has this issue finally been fixed and the needle now moves smoothly and reacts properly, as it should?
Old 13th April 2018
  #3447
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by candyflip View Post
For those who have updated to the most recent/stable N4 version, how is the gain reduction needle movement in Violet? What about with 3rd party comps with skins, like any of TimP's? Has this issue finally been fixed and the needle now moves smoothly and reacts properly, as it should?
In my system this has not been fixed, and is so severe that in TimP comps I can't use meters at all. But I know that they are working on it.
Old 13th April 2018
  #3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
In my system this has not been fixed, and is so severe that in TimP comps I can't use meters at all. But I know that they are working on it.
Thanks for that. So the promise of a fix for this during Q1 2018 now becomes Q2 2018...sigh. I think I'll hold off on the update, as everything else is running pretty smooth with it for now. Cheers
Old 13th April 2018
  #3449
Gear Nut
 

I still can’t open an instance of N4P in Reaper under Win10/64 without crashing. Support has gone silent. Would like to audition Bronze and possibly spend my money on it.
Old 13th April 2018
  #3450
Lives for gear
 
wjmwpg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
In my system this has not been fixed, and is so severe that in TimP comps I can't use meters at all. But I know that they are working on it.
. . . Okay. Maybe I'll hold off a little longer then . . .
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