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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3271
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RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
Well, I don't know where is the issue in my system, maybe it's not the OS. Both you and Will are speaking of Studio One and/or Reaper. My daw is Cubase 9.5.20
Maybe is something related to my daw, or something else.
Previous (VST2) N4 engine was working great, absolutely stable, never a crash. The new version is completely unusable on my system.
I thought you meant you went from N3 to N4. Don't know about the differences between versions of N4. The N4 I'm running runs like a champ on Win10, but I haven't updated since I first installed it a few months ago. So maybe the issue is with N4/Win 10 after all.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3272
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
I thought you meant you went from N3 to N4. Don't know about the differences between versions of N4. The N4 I'm running runs like a champ on Win10, but I haven't updated since I first installed it a few months ago. So maybe the issue is with N4/Win 10 after all.
We will see... I' ve raised a ticket with AA
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
Pretty sure 5=highest
If you have Official Documentation pointing to this ... I'd sure like to review it.

It has been quite some time since we've discussed this Quality setting in the BetaTest-Forum.

If I'm recalling ... the 'higher' value setting SEEMS to be assumed as higher quality ... but not quite right.

If we look at the DEFAULT settings in N4's [or Neb-3] XML file, we find:

<FIXEDQUALITY> 0 </FIXEDQUALITY> and
<EXPORTAUDIOQUALITY> 1 </EXPORTAUDIOQUALITY>

Some of these numbers are, in fact, linear values. But others are 'Binary Switches' [On/OFF].

The point we learned directly from Acustica-Audio:

The DEFAULT settings represent the HIGHEST QUALITY settings. Rarely is there reason to change them [unless a true understanding of all interactions]. This applies to things like modified <LTIMED> and <LFREQD> customizing. But they also depend on specific Engine settings [Classic or SPLITH].

These settings have caused confusion over the years. I only raise this to see if you have specific documentations on this ... or to suggest resetting your values to the factory DEFAULT.

hope this is helpful
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3274
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RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
If you have Official Documentation pointing to this ... I'd sure like to review it.

It has been quite some time since we've discussed this Quality setting in the BetaTest-Forum.

If I'm recalling ... the 'higher' value setting SEEMS to be assumed as higher quality ... but not quite right.

If we look at the DEFAULT settings in N4's [or Neb-3] XML file, we find:

<FIXEDQUALITY> 0 </FIXEDQUALITY> and
<EXPORTAUDIOQUALITY> 1 </EXPORTAUDIOQUALITY>

Some of these numbers are, in fact, linear values. But others are 'Binary Switches' [On/OFF].

The point we learned directly from Acustica-Audio:

The DEFAULT settings represent the HIGHEST QUALITY settings. Rarely is there reason to change them [unless a true understanding of all interactions]. This applies to things like modified <LTIMED> and <LFREQD> customizing. But they also depend on specific Engine settings [Classic or SPLITH].

These settings have caused confusion over the years. I only raise this to see if you have specific documentations on this ... or to suggest resetting your values to the factory DEFAULT.

hope this is helpful
Interesting. I would haven't imagined it to be a binary switch since by definition there are only two options with binary , while the Quality meter goes up to 5. Perhaps they're allowing for future possibilities?

On the one hand, your quote above from AA (if that's what it is ) seems to suggest setting beyond 1 serves no purpose whatsoever except maybe to eat more CPU amd make it sound worse. If the xml snippet tells the whole story, anything above a 1 is just 1 or 0 in disguise. There really isn't a third option with a binary switch.

On the other hand, the statement about the defaults is immediately followed by [I]" This applies to things like modified <LTIMED> and <LFREQD> customizing. But they also depend on specific Engine settings [Classic or SPLITH]."[/I ] That suggests, or at least invites the suspicion, that they are referring to the kinds of tweaks mentioned at Nebula VST Plug-in Tips - Switching To TIMED Kernels where folks were changing between different modes of the engine , as opposed to addressing the Quality meter specifically.

I would assume (and in fact probably did assume ) that the quality meter is for oversampling. As you probably know, the story with oversampling is a bit more complicated than just higher=better: o.s. usually will help, up to a point, but it's not always necessary. In some rare cases, if the filtering algorithms aren't so great, it can actually hurt things a little. But most of the time, in most plugins, it seems to help--at least a little. Arguably not enough to justify the extra CPU expenditure, but it varies with the source.

At any rate...to answer your question more directly: no, the Quality slider doesn't seem to be mentioned specifically in any documentation I've come across. The notion most likely entered my head that 5= highest from others' posts suggesting as much, or from other plugins having comparable settings for oversampling. The one time I bothered to try to A/B it and hear the difference it seemed to me to subjectively sound ever-so-slightly better at 5 than the default . An d I do mean slightly) . That's pretty much the same situation for me when I try oversampling on most plugins (which would also reinforce the notion). My monitoring situation is decent but not quite high end, so I struggle a bit to hear the difference between, say, Invisible Limiter at 2x and 4x. I'm pretty sure both sound better than 1x, unless there's not much limiting to begin with, but I may well be imagining that also. When differences seem even those hearing them (or those that imagine they are hearing them ) to be as subtle as the differences between oversampling rates , we have to at least suspect that whatever differences supposed are possibly just the effects of placebo.

At any rate, it's not a question I had reason to investigate further. The setting stays put after first time , so it's been largely out of sight and mind for me.

It would be good of AA to comment here on what exactly the Quality meter does, and whether there's any difference between 1 and 2 and 5.

Last edited by RedBaaron; 2nd April 2018 at 03:27 AM..
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3275
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swartzfeger's Avatar
Happy Easter everyone! I just bought AlexB's MFC on sale... I've been looking at this for a LONG time and think it might be perfect for my style (cinematic ambient, I guess).

Has anyone used a Nebula console library in conjunction with Airwindow's Console4 or Console5? I'm waiting on AlexB authorization and excited to try it with Airwindows and some other favorite plugins in my arsenal.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3276
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RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzfeger View Post
Happy Easter everyone! I just bought AlexB's MFC on sale... I've been looking at this for a LONG time and think it might be perfect for my style (cinematic ambient, I guess).

Has anyone used a Nebula console library in conjunction with Airwindow's Console4 or Console5? I'm waiting on AlexB authorization and excited to try it with Airwindows and some other favorite plugins in my arsenal.
I like Alex B's MFC and the 9KC best , and use those both regularly, even in the same project. His Modern Logic console is a bit like the 9Kc but doesn't give as much saturation/flavor; the 9kc pretty much displaced the Modern Logic for me.
Not a Nebula product, but I'll also occasionally use Slate VCC or NLS, Neither seem as good as Alex B's but each does its own thing and may be appropriate for a given source.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3277
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
Interesting. I would haven't imagined it to be a binary switch since by definition there are only two options with binary , while the Quality meter goes up to 5. Perhaps they're allowing for future possibilities?

On the one hand, your quote above from AA (if that's what it is ) seems to suggest setting beyond 1 serves no purpose whatsoever except maybe to eat more CPU amd make it sound worse. If the xml snippet tells the whole story, anything above a 1 is just 1 or 0 in disguise. There really isn't a third option with a binary switch.

On the other hand, the statement about the defaults is immediately followed by [I]" This applies to things like modified <LTIMED> and <LFREQD> customizing. But they also depend on specific Engine settings [Classic or SPLITH]."[/I ] That suggests, or at least invites the suspicion, that they are referring to the kinds of tweaks mentioned at Nebula VST Plug-in Tips - Switching To TIMED Kernels where folks were changing between different modes of the engine , as opposed to addressing the Quality meter specifically.

I would assume (and in fact probably did assume ) that the quality meter is for oversampling. As you probably know, the story with oversampling is a bit more complicated than just higher=better: o.s. usually will help, up to a point, but it's not always necessary. In some rare cases, if the filtering algorithms aren't so great, it can actually hurt things a little. But most of the time, in most plugins, it seems to help--at least a little. Arguably not enough to justify the extra CPU expenditure, but it varies with the source.

At any rate...to answer your question more directly: no, the Quality slider doesn't seem to be mentioned specifically in any documentation I've come across. The notion most likely entered my head that 5= highest from others' posts suggesting as much, or from other plugins having comparable settings for oversampling. The one time I bothered to try to A/B it and hear the difference it seemed to me to subjectively sound ever-so-slightly better at 5 than the default . An d I do mean slightly) . That's pretty much the same situation for me when I try oversampling on most plugins (which would also reinforce the notion). My monitoring situation is decent but not quite high end, so I struggle a bit to hear the difference between, say, Invisible Limiter at 2x and 4x. I'm pretty sure both sound better than 1x, unless there's not much limiting to begin with, but I may well be imagining that also. When differences seem even those hearing them (or those that imagine they are hearing them ) to be as subtle as the differences between oversampling rates , we have to at least suspect that whatever differences supposed are possibly just the effects of placebo.

At any rate, it's not a question I had reason to investigate further. The setting stays put after first time , so it's been largely out of sight and mind for me.

It would be good of AA to comment here on what exactly the Quality meter does, and whether there's any difference between 1 and 2 and 5.
So no to mis-understand ... I mention certain settings [those that 1 or 0] MIGHT be BINARY switches ... not all of them. [a point in and of itself]. That fuels some of the confusion.

Several years back [Neb-3], we were able to get some documentation, along with comments from GianCarlo, that offered some details and clarification. I've made attempt to scan my collection in order to locate [not found as yet].

As I review my settings ... If we had learned that a particular setting DID offer a higher quality ... with a powerful computer, I would have made those settings for my Mastering work, since we typically are working a single track, and can focus processing to it alone.

What I do recall ... the factory 'Quality' setting IS the recommended value. I cannot recall WHY there was even a settings choice.

There ARE customizing settings that DO change Neb/N4 'qualities'. Some that I test/use for particular projects and specific PreSets. These changes are not a one size fits all ... and some people conclude that they don't like, or don't hear the change.

When this became a Topic of heavy interest at the AA forum [years back], there was a push to offer a 'Render Option' of this 'Higher Quality'. Sort of an Automatic switcher. AA [and others] pointed out that the Render sound could be so different to the Auditioned sound that the change would not relate [as well as cause stability, timing issue due to CPU loads and RAM requirements].

Least we forget, that Nebula CAN be configured to bring most any computer to its knees with a single instance. I can confirm.

Anyway ... I've not recently heard anyone mentioning Quality setting changes till you posted. I know some of the 3rd Party Devs have posted suggested settings in their Library manuals. AlexB for one.

Part of his manual states:
Quote:
2.1 - Parameter Settings
Some parameters must to be set into Nebula's MAST Page for better performance and Nebula experience:
1 – set the Mode from SIMPLE to GURU
2 – set the AHEAD to 6ms
3 – set the RATE CNV to 4500ms
4 – click on save and reload Nebula
2.2 - Off Line Process
If your DAW isn't powerful or you want/need to freeze or export processed audio tracks I strongly recommend
the NEBULAMAN by Zabukowski: Zabukowski Software | Software tools for Acustica Audio Nebula audio processor
Some parameters must to be set into Nebula's MAST Page for better off line performance:
1 – set the QUALITY to 1
2 – click on save and reload Nebula
2.3 – TIMED, FREQD and “Web Tricks”
On the forums you will find many “tricks” which theoretically will improve sound and performance: Please leave
libraries the original conditions! Results from these changes are widely varied and often lead to very undesirable
results.
The presets are programmed to sound close to the original sampled hardware. If you change any parameter the
sound changes and it will be different from the original sampled unit.
NOTE: some of these types a recommendations are also to 'protect' product integrity. We should be mindful that only the actual DEV has the hardware side-by-side to compare to. The User only can compare one change to another, and not relate to the hardware's actual performance.

Right ... Wrong. I take NO position on what others may do, but can only caution new users to test and evaluate, and not take changes to factory settings as gospel. Sometimes they work ... and there are times they don't. In my Mastering work, Rendering time is not an issue. I have no problem pushing the quality envelope at this final stage of processing someones project, and my Room delivers the finer details.

I'm not speaking to only your post, but to the many followers of these threads. As a beta-tester, we've been called on to test concepts behind the scenes. As it is known, we have a Team that is tough to satisfy [if ever]. We've banged into the current, technological 'wall' at times ... AA has brainstormed a new evolution, tech advancement/concept that opens new possibilities [CORE Engines are visible examples]. On its' own, AA is pushing the technology ... the beta-team [and Customers] remain the continual 'thorn in their side'.

We enjoy it. We are hear for the sound and the music. It is The Passion and the Drive.

Hope this is useful to some.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3278
Lives for gear
 
RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzfeger View Post
Happy Easter everyone! I just bought AlexB's MFC on sale... I've been looking at this for a LONG time and think it might be perfect for my style (cinematic ambient, I guess).

Has anyone used a Nebula console library in conjunction with Airwindow's Console4 or Console5? I'm waiting on AlexB authorization and excited to try it with Airwindows and some other favorite plugins in my arsenal.

..Also, the console emu in Acustica Gold sounds fantastic if you drive up the input and lower the output. The comp and eq are no slouches either. But it's pricey and terrible on CPU.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3279
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swartzfeger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
..Also, the console emu in Acustica Gold sounds fantastic if you drive up the input and lower the output. The comp and eq are no slouches either. But it's pricey and terrible on CPU.
You got me thinking... I own Lime and have never tried cranking the input. While most of Lime is the Neve RS and 88, the "F" preamp is the 1073 I believe. Maybe I'll try cranking the F preamp for a little color.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3280
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjmwpg View Post
Yes I am creating a Support Ticket for this, but just curious if anyone else is having the same experience.

I'm running OSX 10.13 and Reaper 5.77

Since rebuilding my system from the ground up with fresh installs of everything, including all Acustica plugs being installed through the latest Aquarius build, every time I open a project that has an instance of N4, or I insert an instance of N4 into a new project, a bunch of empty Acustica folders get added to my Reaper project folder. For what it's worth I'm not yet running the latest N4 update that was just released as I reinstalled my N4 the day before it dropped, (and I'm not taking that plunge until I have all other kinks worked out).

I'm referring to the six folders above the Bounces folder in the image below. Anyone else experiencing this?


These are actually files, not folders. It is a known "cosmetical" issue, completely harmless, though
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3281
Lives for gear
Purchased N4 commercial and Bronze yesterday, but still not showing up in Aquarius. No previous Nebula installs, no previous problems with Aquarius...any ideas?

Edit: Oops, it's there now!
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3282
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I installed N4 player few days ago, checked quickly, it crashed almost instantly.. Tried for few more times, same thing, decided to let it rest and headed for holidays. Now that I'm opening up sessions, my Nebula3 crashes on load. This sucks so badly, I have work to do, deadlines and stuff. Feeling a bit angry right now. I feel stupid for not having a sandbox to install and try out stuff.. But then again this is the first time that an "upgrade" has broken anything on my system, I'm pretty cautious. Wish me luck, I really hope to have this sorted out fast. Going to put in a ticket now, posted this here as my experience. Be careful

EDIT: and now I'm not able to login to my account , that started well , ,.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3283
Lives for gear
 

Nebula4 is very very unstable here. It doesn't always crash, but does a lot randomly. Sometimes when opening the session, sometimes when clicking on a button, sometimes when opening the plugin.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3284
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
Nebula4 is very very unstable here. It doesn't always crash, but does a lot randomly. Sometimes when opening the session, sometimes when clicking on a button, sometimes when opening the plugin.
Win or OSX ?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3285
Lives for gear
 

For any reason I had to renew my password . . got to send the ticket, now waiting for help
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3286
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
Nebula4 is very very unstable here. It doesn't always crash, but does a lot randomly. Sometimes when opening the session, sometimes when clicking on a button, sometimes when opening the plugin.
Almost same here, I've reported this on this thread some posts ago. The behaviour, in my case, is the following one: If I instantiate a single N4 on a track, and I swap libraries one after another, my daw (Cubase 9.5.20) never crashes, even if I swap 50 libraries in sequence. My daw, instead, always crash with more than one instance of N4 (two, three, five, it's almost random), sometimes on instantiating it, sometimes on loading libraries.
I have verified the same exact behaviour in Reaper (last available version).
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Win or OSX ?
OSX

Pro Tools 2018.

I have Nebula4 full, not the Player.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3288
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
OSX

Pro Tools 2018.

I have Nebula4 full, not the Player.
Open N4.XML with textedit and change ENGINEVERSION from 14212 to 14170.

See if it gets any better.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3289
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Open N4.XML with textedit and change ENGINEVERSION from 14212 to 14170.

See if it gets any better.

This is for Windows, too?
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3290
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
This is for Windows, too?
On Windows you shoud also specify complete path to repository inside currently empty <DATAPATH> tag. Dont forget leading and trailing space. Also path must be terminated with a backslash.

example: <DATAPATH> c:\mypath\ </DATAPATH>
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3291
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
On Windows you shoud also specify complete path to repository inside currently empty <DATAPATH> tag. Dont forget leading and trailing space. Also path must be terminated with a backslash.

example: <DATAPATH> c:\mypath\ </DATAPATH>
Ok, I will try this... thank you
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3292
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Note, that this potential solution is just for a quick test - i am trying to isolate the reason for crashes - for official solutions always open support ticket.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3293
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Note, that this potential solution is just for a quick test - i am trying to isolate the reason for crashes - for official solutions always open support ticket.
Ok, it works for me. With the old 14170 engine (the one I was using before, infact) it is rock solid. 40 instances on a project: I have added-swapped libraries and instances, copy-paste, moved instances between tracks, every operation: N4 is solid like it was before the upgrade.

I understand that this is a workaround for you to understand if the engine is the problem (and it is, in my system), but: can I use Nebula this way until a solution is found for the new engine? This way I do not need to uninstall the new (aquarius-based) one and reinstall the standalone application with the old engine.

Thank you, I'm happy you are among the developers, now, I'm sure you will soon find the solution.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3294
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
Ok, it works for me. With the old 14170 engine (the one I was using before, infact) it is rock solid. 40 instances on a project: I have added-swapped libraries and instances, copy-paste, moved instances between tracks, every operation: N4 is solid like it was before the upgrade.

I understand that this is a workaround for you to understand if the engine is the problem (and it is, in my system), but: can I use Nebula this way until a solution is found for the new engine? This way I do not need to uninstall the new (aquarius-based) one and reinstall the standalone application with the old engine.

Thank you, I'm happy you are among the developers, now, I'm sure you will soon find the solution.
Enrique is already aware of this issue. Anyway, please inform support about your findings, they will give you an official advice / solution. Anyway, to my knowledge, you can use 170 engine normally.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #3295
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Enrique is already aware of this issue. Anyway, please inform support about your findings, they will give you an official advice / solution. Anyway, to my knowledge, you can use 170 engine normally.
Perfect, thanks. Ok, I prefer to use the old engine on the new version, for the moment: I'll have some of the benefits of the new version, while I wait for the fixed engine. Of course, I'm going to update my ticket to inform support.
Old 3rd April 2018
  #3296
Lives for gear
 

@zabukowski , or anyone in the know.. How do I uninstall N4 Player? Looks like it wrote load of stuff on my system, I think I'd better try to uninstall it and then re-install my Nebula3 pro.. ( regarding this post: Nebula must have )
Old 3rd April 2018
  #3297
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Open N4.XML with textedit and change ENGINEVERSION from 14212 to 14170.

See if it gets any better.
Much better now. Thanks.
Old 3rd April 2018
  #3298
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOh View Post
Much better now. Thanks.
No more crashes ??
Old 3rd April 2018
  #3299
Gear Nut
 
PhelixK's Avatar
 

Hi
Unless checking latest AQPs, I've mostly used NAE 1.4.190 for best non-crash stability.

Note:
Here 1.4.212 (Core12) feels more stable compared with 1.4.200.
I did not experiment with 1.4.170.

macOS 10.13.4
Old 3rd April 2018
  #3300
Lives for gear
 
Arionas's Avatar
Hello @zabukowski,
I just purchased Bronze which is an excellent EQ.
I'm trying to make a Nebula set up for Bronze but in the skins section I don't see the Bronze skin.
Is there something I can do to have this set up with Bronze skin?
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