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Nebula must have Saturation Plugins
Old 21st March 2018
  #3061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnut View Post
Thank you very much for the recommendations folks! I shall investigate all of these.

I purchased Vari level, 37J Tape, Surge EQ and Shape Modifier. I'm going to pick up one or two more I think then get on with getting my head around these tools and Nebula 4 in general.

Thanks.
It's probably been mentioned, but don't forget the Henry Olonga bundle. I think it's free now, and it comes loaded with preamp and hardware presets. User @martman22 put these very useful frequency plots for all the presets. HO_EQ_Graphs

Not to overload you with library recommendations, but here are some that you might want to consider in the future:
-AlexB consoles (take your pick, really -- though MFC, SP79, and 9KC get tons of praise around here. I also make frequent use of N14 and A16).
-I really like Analoginthebox's Doc Fear and use it regularly. The low shelf is round and full, and the highs are amazing as well. I often combine the lows of Doc Fear with Surge highs on a 2buss.
-Any EQ by TimP is amazing, really. Pick your flavour. I also like the 5033 from AlexB for a modernish Neve with the custom transformer.
-TimP and Tim Cupwise compressors. I see you've already got some. Excellent stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
To me its like a kind of warmed up Surge. So it's precise, but not as warm as a Siemens, (forgot what Tim calls his...) It adds a little bit of body. You can use it everywhere. It could be the only EQ you needed - (Disclaimer: I WOULD NEVER CONSIDER THIS TO BE EVEN REMOTELY SENSIBLE!!!)

The shelf/bell combo dial is convenient too.
That sounds ... scrumptious. I think I'm sold. (Tim calls the Siemens the Silk 259, btw.) I see now that there are some demos on Tim's website. Gonna grab those asap.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3062
Lives for gear
 

I'll give mention to AlexB's MMeQ [Mass-Pass] eq library.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3063
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
I'll give mention to AlexB's MMeQ [Mass-Pass] eq library.
Especially with those JPN N4 skins!
Old 21st March 2018
  #3064
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Especially with those JPN N4 skins!
Dang. I missed those too. They were probably released when I was off doing video production stuff and just didn't have the time for Gearslutz (or much else).

Wait a second .... Skins for MFC and MFeQ were released!?
Old 21st March 2018
  #3065
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
And I wonder how AA mysteriously just learned to do this, lol.......
I wonder, why on earth Tim is not part of the 'official' developers? The guy's skills are legendary!
Old 21st March 2018
  #3066
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGroarty View Post
I wonder, why on earth Tim is not part of the 'official' developers? The guy's skills are legendary!
Agreed, AA should be paying him big money to develop for them. The saturation I can get out of some of his libraries are just amazing and organic, easily best of any plugin out there, and that's with people saying Nebula can't do distortion!
Old 21st March 2018
  #3067
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomheavybeats View Post
Agreed, AA should be paying him big money to develop for them. The saturation I can get out of some of his libraries are just amazing and organic, easily best of any plugin out there, and that's with people saying Nebula can't do distortion!
For real though.

I have the exact same thought.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3068
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGroarty View Post
I wonder, why on earth Tim is not part of the 'official' developers? The guy's skills are legendary!
I'm not 100% totally sure....... but from my seat watching this for 2 years now and having discussed it with both parties my best guess would be Tim P and G are very different personalities, kinda like oil and water and don't agree on the value of each others Nebula contributions.

Only G and Tim know the full reason, but I can say for sure AA is putting the squeeze on as they regain full control of Nebula starting with N4 and the new N4 Player as only N4 libraries created with Nat4 will work with the N4 Player and available via Aquarius only. At some time in the future I predict AA will release N5 that will NOT read anything made with Nat3, so any 3rd party dev not officially under AA's contract will be out cold and disappear.

What I accepted several years back when G and I went round and round about their Manifest needing updated, is that the open source project that was the original Nebula was gone and that the company that is now AA had a busisness plan to regain total control and licensing of their IP so they could prosper as a company. It was AA's right to do this even if it eliminated the small 3rd party dev's that put AA in the position they are today.

My hope was that more of the 3rd party dev's would adapt to AA's new model and move forward in cooperation, amazingly only AITB sees the future model properly and jumped on board.... Azure is a result of that cooperation. I'm still hoping Tim P and Tim Cupwise move forward with AA as their time is limited as unofficial 3rd party dev's. IMHO Aquarius and the free N4 Player signal the end of 3rd party dev's making money on their own without AA getting their cut for their IP and hard work. The reality is that AA will be getting their deserved cut for their IP moving forward one way or another.

For me it really sucks thinking that both Tim P and Tim Cupwise will not be making their great Nebula libraries for us much longer, but it is what it is.

As always to each their own.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3069
Lives for gear
I already feel like a Cuban driving one of Tim's beautiful 1950's Cadillacs.

Last edited by Shaolin; 21st March 2018 at 04:31 PM..
Old 21st March 2018
  #3070
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
I already fell like a Cuban driving one of Tim's beautiful 1950's Cadillacs.
Yup. In totally unsupported N3 Ultimate, running the highest OS it can take for years to come....
Old 21st March 2018
  #3071
Gear Addict
 

I'm happy I bought Nebula 3 a few years ago then... N4 player for free... Well I get have worlds I suppose!

Still, would be cool for the Tim's and AlexB to continue with N4.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3072
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I'm not 100% totally sure....... but from my seat watching this for 2 years now and having discussed it with both parties my best guess would be Tim P and G are very different personalities, kinda like oil and water and don't agree on the value of each others Nebula contributions.

Only G and Tim know the full reason, but I can say for sure AA is putting the squeeze on as they regain full control of Nebula starting with N4 and the new N4 Player as only N4 libraries created with Nat4 will work with the N4 Player and available via Aquarius only. At some time in the future I predict AA will release N5 that will NOT read anything made with Nat3, so any 3rd party dev not officially under AA's contract will be out cold and disappear.

What I accepted several years back when G and I went round and round about their Manifest needing updated, is that the open source project that was the original Nebula was gone and that the company that is now AA had a busisness plan to regain total control and licensing of their IP so they could prosper as a company. It was AA's right to do this even if it eliminated the small 3rd party dev's that put AA in the position they are today.

My hope was that more of the 3rd party dev's would adapt to AA's new model and move forward in cooperation, amazingly only AITB sees the future model properly and jumped on board.... Azure is a result of that cooperation. I'm still hoping Tim P and Tim Cupwise move forward with AA as their time is limited as unofficial 3rd party dev's. IMHO Aquarius and the free N4 Player signal the end of 3rd party dev's making money on their own without AA getting their cut for their IP and hard work. The reality is that AA will be getting their deserved cut for their IP moving forward one way or another.

For me it really sucks thinking that both Tim P and Tim Cupwise will not be making their great Nebula libraries for us much longer, but it is what it is.

As always to each their own.
Jeez man, I hope that they can work something out man, that would be a real loss for everyone i think.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3073
OMU
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OMU's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I'm not 100% totally sure....... but from my seat watching this for 2 years now and having discussed it with both parties my best guess would be Tim P and G are very different personalities, kinda like oil and water and don't agree on the value of each others Nebula contributions.

Only G and Tim know the full reason, but I can say for sure AA is putting the squeeze on as they regain full control of Nebula starting with N4 and the new N4 Player as only N4 libraries created with Nat4 will work with the N4 Player and available via Aquarius only. At some time in the future I predict AA will release N5 that will NOT read anything made with Nat3, so any 3rd party dev not officially under AA's contract will be out cold and disappear.

What I accepted several years back when G and I went round and round about their Manifest needing updated, is that the open source project that was the original Nebula was gone and that the company that is now AA had a busisness plan to regain total control and licensing of their IP so they could prosper as a company. It was AA's right to do this even if it eliminated the small 3rd party dev's that put AA in the position they are today.

My hope was that more of the 3rd party dev's would adapt to AA's new model and move forward in cooperation, amazingly only AITB sees the future model properly and jumped on board.... Azure is a result of that cooperation. I'm still hoping Tim P and Tim Cupwise move forward with AA as their time is limited as unofficial 3rd party dev's. IMHO Aquarius and the free N4 Player signal the end of 3rd party dev's making money on their own without AA getting their cut for their IP and hard work. The reality is that AA will be getting their deserved cut for their IP moving forward one way or another.

For me it really sucks thinking that both Tim P and Tim Cupwise will not be making their great Nebula libraries for us much longer, but it is what it is.

As always to each their own.
I had the exact same feeling about TimP & G and the possibility to soon see the 'old' libraries and devs left to dust.

However, in my opinion, they should leave the option to open old libraries in the paid version, exactly how Kontakt 5 can open programs created on Kontakt 1, if we continue the comparison with that plugin and business model.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3074
Gear Maniac
 

Anyway, unless the business model is modified , I don't think that the unofficial 3d party developer will simply disappear, since the capability of N4 to read unofficial 3d party libraries is now the main difference between N4 full and N4 free (along with the client-server capabilities of course). I think there is something strange about this policy, infact: it would be more logical if the unofficial 3d party developers had access to the latest NAT tech: the difference should only be in the licensing agreement, not in the tech.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3075
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks folks for the extra suggestions, lots to consider here.

Yes it will be really sad if the unauthorised developers give up as a result of the changes. Especially for a new owner of N4 such as myself who is late to the party. Still I'm really excited to get started with these new tools in Nebula land.

L-Bus gets a lot of love in this thread for its punchy sound, would people who use this say that it is this more a tool for drum busses and punchy rock mixes or is it much more versatile than that in terms of genre and styles of music?

Thanks.

Last edited by woodnut; 21st March 2018 at 03:16 PM.. Reason: extra detail
Old 21st March 2018
  #3076
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
I had the exact same feeling about TimP & G and the possibility to soon see the 'old' libraries and devs left to dust.

However, in my opinion, they should leave the option to open old libraries in the paid version, exactly how Kontakt 5 can open programs created on Kontakt 1, if we continue the comparison with that plugin and business model.
While I agree, that would allow 3rd party dev's to keep making Nat3 libraries without paying AA anything, which is what AA is slowly preventing moving forward.

At this point any 3rd party dev's left in the dust is making that decision themselves, AA stated 2 years back what the future held. I clearly see both sides of the situation, but in the end this is AA's IP and they have given many dev's many years of freely profiting from that IP...... but it would be a huge blow to loose both Tim's vast Nebula experience from the technology moving forward.

I still believe there can be a solution that works for everyone involved.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3077
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
Anyway, unless the business model is modified , I don't think that the unofficial 3d party developer will simply disappear, since the capability of N4 to read unofficial 3d party libraries is now the main difference between N4 full and N4 free (along with the client-server capabilities of course). I think there is something strange about this policy, infact: it would be more logical if the unofficial 3d party developers had access to the latest NAT tech: the difference should only be in the licensing agreement, not in the tech.
Only 3rd party dev's who have signed a licensing agreement have access to Nat4. So any 3rd party developer still using Nat3 is not paying AA licensing fees.

We are down to the last 3 unlicensed 3rd party dev's.... so trust they will disappear like so many others have, it's only a matter of time as the tech improves and AA pushes forward.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3078
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
Only 3rd party dev's who have signed a licensing agreement have access to Nat4. So any 3rd party developer still using Nat3 is not paying AA licensing fees.

We are down to the last 3 unlicensed 3rd party dev's.... so trust they will disappear like so many others have, it's only a matter of time as the tech improves and AA pushes forward.
I understand what you do mean, but I think that this AA policy is contradictory. The main difference between N4 full and N4 player is the capability of N4 full to read unofficial 3d party libraries. So AA, to sell the N4 full, should allow the unofficial 3d party to develop their library with the best technology available. If not, the gap between official and unofficial developers will become huge, in a few years, and N4 full will not be convenient anymore for the customer. If unofficial 3d party developers disappear, this model and this distinction between free and full N4 will disappear, too. If AA believes in this model, AA should give 3d party unofficial developers the real, technical, opportunity to survive.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3079
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertom View Post
I understand what you do mean, but I think that this AA policy is contradictory. The main difference between N4 full and N4 player is the capability of N4 full to read unofficial 3d party libraries. So AA, to sell the N4 full, should allow the unofficial 3d party to develop their library with the best technology available. If not, the gap between official and unofficial developers will become huge, in a few years, and N4 full will not be convenient anymore for the customer. If unofficial 3d party developers disappear, this model and this distinction between free and full N4 will disappear, too. If AA believes in this model, AA should give 3d party unofficial developers the real, technical, opportunity to survive.
AA's policy today is very open and clear, sign the licensing agreement and gain the full Nat4 Core 12, don't and continue using Nat3 on Core 5. Why should AA have to give away their work and tech advances to anyone not willing to help pay for those same tech advances? It's not logical to expect AA to give away for free what by law they should have been paid a decade ago.

All dev's that signed the licensing agreement like AITB have full access to AA's new tech and we end users have Azure, a $9K EQ! So every 3rd party dev actually has the opportunity to survive in this, they just have to sign the licensing agreement.

Don't mistake my words here, I seriously want the three remaining active 3rd party dev's left, on for N4's future (Tim P is my favorite dev), but I understand AA's need to collect some compensation for others using their IP.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3080
Gear Nut
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 

It's been 15 months since I purchased N4. I'm still waiting to be impressed.

No setups, higher CPU usage, questionable improvement in sound quality. The only thing it has going for it is it's unrealised potential and the fact that people can no longer buy Nebula 3, which I use everyday.

Oh, and it doesn't work properly with Aquarius yet either.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3081
Gear Head
 
Roadside's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I'm not 100% totally sure....... but from my seat watching this for 2 years now and having discussed it with both parties my best guess would be Tim P and G are very different personalities, kinda like oil and water and don't agree on the value of each others Nebula contributions.

Only G and Tim know the full reason, but I can say for sure AA is putting the squeeze on as they regain full control of Nebula starting with N4 and the new N4 Player as only N4 libraries created with Nat4 will work with the N4 Player and available via Aquarius only. At some time in the future I predict AA will release N5 that will NOT read anything made with Nat3, so any 3rd party dev not officially under AA's contract will be out cold and disappear.

What I accepted several years back when G and I went round and round about their Manifest needing updated, is that the open source project that was the original Nebula was gone and that the company that is now AA had a busisness plan to regain total control and licensing of their IP so they could prosper as a company. It was AA's right to do this even if it eliminated the small 3rd party dev's that put AA in the position they are today.

My hope was that more of the 3rd party dev's would adapt to AA's new model and move forward in cooperation, amazingly only AITB sees the future model properly and jumped on board.... Azure is a result of that cooperation. I'm still hoping Tim P and Tim Cupwise move forward with AA as their time is limited as unofficial 3rd party dev's. IMHO Aquarius and the free N4 Player signal the end of 3rd party dev's making money on their own without AA getting their cut for their IP and hard work. The reality is that AA will be getting their deserved cut for their IP moving forward one way or another.

For me it really sucks thinking that both Tim P and Tim Cupwise will not be making their great Nebula libraries for us much longer, but it is what it is.

As always to each their own.
Thanks for your insight Will. This answers questions that were on a lot of our minds.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3082
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post
It's probably been mentioned, but don't forget the Henry Olonga bundle. I think it's free now, and it comes loaded with preamp and hardware presets. User @martman22 put these very useful frequency plots for all the presets. HO_EQ_Graphs

Not to overload you with library recommendations, but here are some that you might want to consider in the future:
-AlexB consoles (take your pick, really -- though MFC, SP79, and 9KC get tons of praise around here. I also make frequent use of N14 and A16).
-I really like Analoginthebox's Doc Fear and use it regularly. The low shelf is round and full, and the highs are amazing as well. I often combine the lows of Doc Fear with Surge highs on a 2buss.
-Any EQ by TimP is amazing, really. Pick your flavour. I also like the 5033 from AlexB for a modernish Neve with the custom transformer.
-TimP and Tim Cupwise compressors. I see you've already got some. Excellent stuff.




That sounds ... scrumptious. I think I'm sold. (Tim calls the Siemens the Silk 259, btw.) I see now that there are some demos on Tim's website. Gonna grab those asap.
Thank you for this, I just got the all you can eat bundle.

I had been looking at Alex B's consoles, it seems that many don't have n4 skins. I am yet to dive in and actually use n4 or the libraries that I have just purchased but I guess this makes them tricky to use for a nebula newbie?

for those who use nebula and Acquas, do you generally prefer his consoles over Acqua based preamps?

Last edited by woodnut; 21st March 2018 at 06:37 PM.. Reason: extra question
Old 21st March 2018
  #3083
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnut View Post
Thank you for this, I just got the all you can eat bundle.

I had been looking at Alex B's consoles, it seems that many don't have n4 skins. I am yet to dive in and actually use n4 or the libraries that I have just purchased but I guess this makes them tricky to use for a nebula newbie?

for those who use nebula and Acquas, do you generally prefer his consoles over Acqua based preamps?
AlexB's console require minimal to no parameter adjustments ... basically drop them onto a track.

Though 'custom skins' can give a unique look, they don't add functionality to the Console libraries [as compared to, say, an EQ or Compressor]. Even then, the standard N-4 GUI display provides all available access and adjustments.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3084
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnut View Post
Thank you for this, I just got the all you can eat bundle.

I had been looking at Alex B's consoles, it seems that many don't have n4 skins. I am yet to dive in and actually use n4 or the libraries that I have just purchased but I guess this makes them tricky to use for a nebula newbie?

for those who use nebula and Acquas, do you generally prefer his consoles over Acqua based preamps?
No problem at all. Nah, the skins might make it a little easier to use just purely out of aesthetics and ergonomics, but not too much. Without the skin, you still have all the faders/knobs that you need ... just in an uglier and more generic configuration. For example, if you load the low band of an EQ, it'll have a slider for frequency selection, a slider for boost/cut, and a Q slider if the Q is adjustable. It's straightforward. But JPN has done skins for AlexB's MFC and 9KC. They're 10 euros a pop, I think. And as RJHollins said, you don't need to adjust parameters for console presets.

As for the Acqua pres and N4 pres, there are situations where I'd use one or the other, I suppose. The console ins are great for putting across all the channels in a mix, and the bus presets are great to sum with (MFC is really nice and open, and I've heard SP79 makes things sound "like a record"). But keep in mind the consoles are subtle. Don't expect a sudden ultra-drastic change. The other thing is that the libraries tend to be cumulative. If I do just one pre on each channel of a mix, the effect is pretty subtle but there ... but if I do a mic pre>tape>console line in on each track, the effect is additive and things gel more and just sound a lot classier than without. I've had lots of successes running 3+ instances of N4 pres and tapes on each channel.

You can definitely use Acqua pres this way as well and there are several that sound excellent. The new Pink2 pres are freaking awesome. I personally don't own a lot of Acquas, so I can't really comment too much on N4 vs. Acqua pres ... but I have seen praise for various Acqua pres in the general AA forum.

Ultimately, the advantage of N4 pres is that they're so inexpensive. For example, in that Henry Olonga bundle there are like 30 preamp or hardware unit presets or more. You can get Tim Cupwise's preamp bundle for $5.50. EQ libraries will come either with the pre sampled with the EQ instance or a separate EQ instance ... point being you get the EQ unit with the pre and all for a very reasonable price.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3085
Lives for gear
 
Patrick_'s Avatar
Man, all of this is BS. As men everything could be RE-negotiated.

G and all those gentlemen could go back and sit down and put all egos aside and figure something. And we as the consumers can play a PIVOTAL role by supporting them or not.

I’m going to say AA know they ****ED UP selling us hope with N4. They are doing damage control and it’s time to fix this **** and make it right. I don’t know what the paper work looks like but from my street dealings ...... everyone can take a loss but work towards gains and hopefully amicably get **** in order.

Honestly I’ll come out my own pocket and GOFUNDME TimP, TimC, HO, and CDS so G and crew can get the ego’s pushed away so WE can continue enjoying this fabulous innovations. But that’s just ME. But I knew how passionate G was since 07 talking via msn messenger. I can’t go into details but I knew what went wrong from the outside.

But that’s the past, this is the future. **** man. I just love what these guys are contributing and I want too see these gentlemen win by all means. So ****ING MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Old 21st March 2018
  #3086
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Rules are dead simple:
- developers on aquarius are contributing to the platform and they pay royalties. We can keep nebula free in such case, someone is paying
- external developers are NOT paying royalties and they are not contributing to our platforms. For this effect reason nebula commercial is... payware. Atm I think this is reasonable
Just think a bit to support costs.

No we can't keep nebula 3, the old authorization system is leading to costs. Nebula3 is creating more support costs in any case, compared with nebula 4, because less intuitive.
Just think to the setup feature we are going to release, way better then before, and simple . The browser is way better and so on.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3087
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
AlexB's console require minimal to no parameter adjustments ... basically drop them onto a track.

Though 'custom skins' can give a unique look, they don't add functionality to the Console libraries [as compared to, say, an EQ or Compressor]. Even then, the standard N-4 GUI display provides all available access and adjustments.
Thank you for clearing that up for me yes, actually that makes sense now since these are not full channel strips.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3088
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood123 View Post

Ultimately, the advantage of N4 pres is that they're so inexpensive. For example, in that Henry Olonga bundle there are like 30 preamp or hardware unit presets or more. You can get Tim Cupwise's preamp bundle for $5.50. EQ libraries will come either with the pre sampled with the EQ instance or a separate EQ instance ... point being you get the EQ unit with the pre and all for a very reasonable price.
Thanks again for your advice its very helpful.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3089
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_ View Post
Man, all of this is BS. As men everything could be RE-negotiated.

G and all those gentlemen could go back and sit down and put all egos aside and figure something. And we as the consumers can play a PIVOTAL role by supporting them or not.

I’m going to say AA know they ****ED UP selling us hope with N4. They are doing damage control and it’s time to fix this **** and make it right. I don’t know what the paper work looks like but from my street dealings ...... everyone can take a loss but work towards gains and hopefully amicably get **** in order.

Honestly I’ll come out my own pocket and GOFUNDME TimP, TimC, HO, and CDS so G and crew can get the ego’s pushed away so WE can continue enjoying this fabulous innovations. But that’s just ME. But I knew how passionate G was since 07 talking via msn messenger. I can’t go into details but I knew what went wrong from the outside.

But that’s the past, this is the future. **** man. I just love what these guys are contributing and I want too see these gentlemen win by all means. So ****ING MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Egos? I think more likely it comes down to money. G is generous to the original Devs by allowing core 5 libraries in N4 probably because he remembers the good old days. He takes no cut of libraries that he permits into N4, skinned no less.

But the pioneer days are over. Would G like them on board? I bet he would. Can he afford to give them free passage? No.
Old 21st March 2018
  #3090
Lives for gear
 
Patrick_'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
Egos? I think more likely it comes down to money. G is generous to the original Devs by allowing core 5 libraries in N4 probably because he remembers the good old days. He takes no cut of libraries that he permits into N4, skinned no less.

But the pioneer days are over. Would G like them on board? I bet he would. Can he afford to give them free passage? No.
I think you need to read over my passage one more time.......
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