The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Logic Degrading Kontakt 4!!!
Old 30th December 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
Logic Degrading Kontakt 4!!!

Hey Folks,

So this has me really thinking about moving on from LOGIC! I have run a few test and have found some concerning things. For instance most of my third party sound libraries sound much more detailed and crsi[p run in stand alone versus running them inside LOGIC. There is a clear loss of sound quality. Does anyone know what is going on here? Is this a problem in other DAWS. Because if it is a Logic only situation I must move to a new platform. Feedback is needed on this one right away by anyone who knows. It's like the libraries become mush inside LOGIC compared to outside of logic.

I am not a Logic hater, so that everyone knows. I have been using it since Logic 4. But, I have always had too work real hard to get the bottom end on things right and especially the upper mids!! Is Logic just a sonic Dog and great Midi program? Someone help me out here I have to make a major decision here. Thanks!!!



Jazztone
Old 30th December 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Post an audio sample because I don't believe it...
Old 30th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Gain staging? Issue with your settings for live input mode? I've got Logic & Kontakt 4 and things seem fine to me, comparing standalone to Bidule, Reaper (win7 & OSX) and Ableton Live I've noticed no difference in it's "sound" as long as you account for normalizing gain.
Old 30th December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Gain staging? Issue with your settings for live input mode? I've got Logic & Kontakt 4 and things seem fine to me, comparing standalone to Bidule, Reaper (win7 & OSX) and Ableton Live I've noticed no difference in it's "sound" as long as you account for normalizing gain.

What do you mean account for normalizing gain?
I opened a patch in Kontakt stand alone. Then I opened the same patch in Kontakt hosted by Logic! All faders at zero including the master. No other plug ins or tracks and they sound is different. Less detail and texture to the sound.

Why is it people don't want to believe anything anymore? It is all questioned like a person is a idiot. Someone just try the same thing because if I record samples using Logic I won't be able to demonstrate what I am talking about! I am telling you that the plug in doesn't sound the same in Logic as stand alone. As soon as I record it with Logic, the problem I am talking about will ruin the test!

There is no gain staging being done and I don't use Live input mode! Also above you said standalone compared to Bidule, Reaper and Live sounds the same, you did not say it sounds the same with Logic!
Old 30th December 2010
  #5
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roderick View Post
Post an audio sample because I don't believe it...
This would be helpful.
Old 30th December 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
What do you mean account for normalizing gain?
I opened a patch in Kontakt stand alone. Then I opened the same patch in Kontakt hosted by Logic! All faders at zero including the master. No other plug ins or tracks and they sound is different. Less detail and texture to the sound.

Why is it people don't want to believe anything anymore? It is all questioned like a person is a idiot. Someone just try the same thing because if I record samples using Logic I won't be able to demonstrate what I am talking about! I am telling you that the plug in doesn't sound the same in Logic as stand alone. As soon as I record it with Logic, the problem I am talking about will ruin the test!

There is no gain staging being done and I don't use Live input mode! Also above you said standalone compared to Bidule, Reaper and Live sounds the same, you did not say it sounds the same with Logic!
I never said I didn't believe you, I suggested a few things that might affect perception since I have 0 access to your system. The trick on your end is to figure out why it seems different for you...then you can correct whatever is occuring. Since I can neither hear nor duplicate the difference here that's about all I can say with the limited info available.

Saying that I own Logic & Kontakt (imo) implied I haven't noticed any difference, and I mentioned other applications I've tried (on both OSes) for a point of comparison. In fact I had Kontakt running in Logic as you spoke...
Old 30th December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
[QUOTE=valis;6163904]I never said I didn't believe you, I suggested a few things that might affect perception since I have 0 access to your system. The trick on your end is to figure out why it seems different for you...then you can correct whatever is occuring. Since I can neither hear nor duplicate the difference here that's about all I can say with the limited info available.

Saying that I own Logic & Kontakt (imo) implied I haven't noticed any difference, and I mentioned other applications I've tried (on both OSes) for a point of comparison. In fact I had Kontakt running in Logic as you spoke...[/QUOTE
The first comments were directed at a post above you sorry about that! Since you are using Kontakt in Logic perhaps when you are done, open one of your session sounds as stand alone in Kontakt and play the same part! If you hear nothing at all I can assume it is system related and move on. I would appreciate it if you would try that .
Old 30th December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
I hear nothing different, using both the internal soundcard on my mac pro, my RME Multiface II + PCIe hammerfall config, nor on my macbook pro internal or external firewire soundcards. First thing I would ask is if you find this difference on the internal soundcard as well as whatever you're using (also useful info). I might also have asked if you've thoroughly checked your logic template(s) for potential hidden like an insert on an output bus, but I assume you've already done that.

Some core audio users with iTunes have recently noted that changing Core Audio drivers while iTunes is running degrades sound severely...while before a recent iTunes update this presented no issue. Not that I think this is necessarily the issue here but it's an example of how things may not always be what they seem initially (iTunes is broke!)
Old 31st December 2010
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Logic Degrading Kontakt 4!!!

Hello, you are right about the difference in the sound of stand alone Kontakt and Kontakt inside Logic (Logic 9 in my case). I just listen to it myself and in stand alone mode it sounds much more detailed to me. Hope this will help you.
Old 31st December 2010
  #10
Gear Nut
 
tyro's Avatar
 

May this have to do with different sample rates and/or bit rates being used in kontakt standalone vs in logic? I don't own kontakt so I can't try to replicate what you're reporting... just a thought, that it may be differing sample rate and/or bit rate settings.
Old 31st December 2010
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
good opportunity for a phase cancellation test.

one thing off the top of my head which people don't tend to consider, is the potential for different midi velocity response scales and curves.

each software sampler even in themselves have differing ways they translate dbs to midi scale linearity.

there was an article done in SOS on that some time back.

this is aside from any possible scale differences on live midi reception scaling to internal midi scaling. I have never tested this but I am pretty sure that in the past I have noted differences between the velocity scales on a Local played external midi keyboard as opposed to the recorded midi result, in or through a DAW.

Velocity response makes a massive difference to feel.
I would expect NI and anyone else to optimize their standalone applications in any way they can.

reborn.. were you suggesting earlier that it's a realtime audio difference which (once) bounced as Audio,
dissapears in Logic. ? e.g. the bounce sounds fine but realtime is not ?

NI have a perfect mode in their plug-in I think.. which you can't play in realtime but if it's recorded or maybe bounced,
it can render in perfect in offline mode. I'm not sure, i haven't used it, but I know people who make hi def pianos for Kontakt and they
mentioned something about this non RT perfect mode feature.

maybe their standalone can RT play in perfect mode .. not sure.

there is some real time issue I have suspicions about myself regarding Logic but I've never been able to track it down.

I worked on a single kick drum in iZotope RX all day one time.. when I transfered it to Logic I thought the low end was
wandering around.. so I looked at it using a hi precision Audio analyzer (NugenAudio analyzer) and sure enough the
spectral traces were wandering on the same repeating kick drum.

bouncing it down though, it phase canceled.

I'm still suspicious.
Old 31st December 2010
  #12
Lives for gear
Try it in another DAW if you have access to one or DL reaper and see if there is a noticeable difference there.
Old 31st December 2010
  #13
Gear Head
 

Do you use comparable buffer-sizes in Logic and Kontakt standalone?

best
Old 31st December 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
Okay I downloaded reaper to try this test out in that program. By the way the Audio engine in reaper sounds more transparent to my ears and the workflow seems cool. How do you make a Bus or Aux send though?

also someone asked if the sound quality is only affected on live playback, and does the sound match when a bounce down is created. The quality loss is still there even when the the stand alone sound of Kontakt is compared to a Logic BTD! I wonder about this though because WAV files from Logic( using bounce all tracks) sound better in Reaper and Mixbuss. I am trying to understand this because if Logic is coloring tracks, how can they survive that to sound better in a another program? I don't understand this but the swimmy bottom end of Logic is gone when I import thpose files into Reaper. I don't know what is going on with Logic but I am not the only opne noticing these things on some level. There is a reason so many records start life in Logic but get mixed in Protools and it ain't editing. Professionals are not stupid and people would mix in Logic if they got the same results. I actually think what is going on in Logic is a more a result of something regarding virtual instruments. Then again there is a Rock session on this site available for mixing. I imported it in Logic and Mixbuss and just now Reaper. The flat naked files sound better in Reaper and Mixbuss than Logic. In logic the files appear to have more bass but the bass is lacking detail.

I really want to have a different dialougue about this subject. People say prove it. Then people submit files and someone comes and says the test is flawed and horsh*T. This has happened many times. Let's do something different this time!

Just so everyone knows, I am not saying you can't do great work in Logic. I am just saying there are some things going on that make me work harder for my results in my world. I would rather put that energy into the music and not fighting some detail loss due to haw a program handles my audio. Let's work this out
Old 31st December 2010
  #15
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyro View Post
May this have to do with different sample rates and/or bit rates being used in kontakt standalone vs in logic? I don't own kontakt so I can't try to replicate what you're reporting... just a thought, that it may be differing sample rate and/or bit rate settings.
This would make sense. When I run Kontakt in standalone mode, I can assign it different memory usage, CPU load, sample rate and buffer size settings from what I assign in VST mode.

Also check "Default Volume for new instrument and volume reset" under the Engine tab in options. It can be set to -6dB or 0dB. Could that be the culprit? There are also settings for CPU overload protection, multiprocessor support, instrument preload size... All settings that may be set different in standalone mode than in VST mode.

Also, is there some sort of automatic dithering or noise shaping going on in Logic when it previews a project? I know in Reaper you can tweak how audio is rendered during preview. Maybe Logic has some similar settings?

Trust me, as long as music involves computers, we DO believe you when you say something is wrong. There are just too many variables and points of failure. And I am not going to criticize your method of testing, either. I figure you have paid good money for audio production tools, so if something does not sound right to your ears, then you should get your money's worth from those tools that can fix what does not sound right.
Old 31st December 2010
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
to be honest, I have had the very same feeling about the lo end in Logic.

I know logic put in some kind of ability to carry out on the fly sample rate conversion.. maybe around 5.4 or thereabouts.

The most obvious way I heard it was having a single kick drum loop followed by some silence just looping round.

if I put it in iZotope and then in Logic and maybe DSP Quatro, Logic seems to vary the low end tail length or has a variant in lo frequency decay rate.

but this might be a separate issue then whether plug-ins perform worse than standalone.

the only time I had any kind of confirmation was using a RT spectral display as a plug-in in Logic.
Old 31st December 2010
  #17
Lives for gear
I noticed this too. If I focus in on the Kick drum in my track, it will play back a little different every pass of the song. This has drove me crazy many times. I go edit everything and still every few playbacks things change. I do not relish learning a new platform but will if there are things just broken in this program. Let's keep talking....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
to be honest, I have had the very same feeling about the lo end in Logic.

I know logic put in some kind of ability to carry out on the fly sample rate conversion.. maybe around 5.4 or thereabouts.

The most obvious way I heard it was having a single kick drum loop followed by some silence just looping round.

if I put it in iZotope and then in Logic and maybe DSP Quatro, Logic seems to vary the low end tail length or has a variant in lo frequency decay rate.

but this might be a separate issue then whether plug-ins perform worse than standalone.


the only time I had any kind of confirmation was using a RT spectral display as a plug-in in Logic.
Old 31st December 2010
  #18
Lives for gear
same sample rates buffer settings and DB level. Pan law could very but the spread of the sound is the same inside or outside of the program. It is just standalone the sound has more detail. Strings reveal more of the sound of rosin going across a bow. It makes me play and feel different! I want all the sound of my sample libraries!

Why would CPU overload protection or multi processor settings affect sound quality? That makes no sense to me. Believe me i want to know how to get what I hear from the standalone Kontakt inside of Logic!

You know I was once told by a manager at Emagic around Logic 5.5 or 6 before apple bought them out that something in the Dithering was coloring the sound and that he thought it was Broken but that the German coding team didn't want to hear it! We both thought the sonic of the program could improve. I'm talking about what takes the 32 bit float to 24bit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
This would make sense. When I run Kontakt in standalone mode, I can assign it different memory usage, CPU load, sample rate and buffer size settings from what I assign in VST mode.

Also check "Default Volume for new instrument and volume reset" under the Engine tab in options. It can be set to -6dB or 0dB. Could that be the culprit? There are also settings for CPU overload protection, multiprocessor support, instrument preload size... All settings that may be set different in standalone mode than in VST mode.

Also, is there some sort of automatic dithering or noise shaping going on in Logic when it previews a project? I know in Reaper you can tweak how audio is rendered during preview. Maybe Logic has some similar settings?

Trust me, as long as music involves computers, we DO believe you when you say something is wrong. There are just too many variables and points of failure. And I am not going to criticize your method of testing, either. I figure you have paid good money for audio production tools, so if something does not sound right to your ears, then you should get your money's worth from those tools that can fix what does not sound right.
Old 31st December 2010
  #19
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
Why would CPU overload protection or multi processor settings affect sound quality? That makes no sense to me.
In some plugins, when the CPU load reaches a certain level, the plugin switches to lower quality rendering. Same with the use of multiple processor cores, some VSTs render audio cruder if they have less processing power available.
Old 31st December 2010
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
I noticed this too. If I focus in on the Kick drum in my track, it will play back a little different every pass of the song. This has drove me crazy many times. I go edit everything and still every few playbacks things change. I do not relish learning a new platform but will if there are things just broken in this program. Let's keep talking....
well I use Logic 7 but there are new time stretching abilities in Logic too now, along with the previous on the fly sample rate conversion,
which I think was for reasons to do with the ability to varyspeed by altering the sample rate.

so anyhow, with each new capability comes more potential for problems.

Logic did always seem to me (in simplistic terms) to have a little more of a rounded (or) muddy bass end. I know the arguments of the logical impossibility of this being the case because of the theory of something being identical in mathematical terms etc, but those mathematical theories in themselves won't account for all the other things which may be going on in a complex DAW application..

as I say, the only point I got closer to a confirmation of this variance in bass response was by having a single kick preceded & followed by space in a loop condition. the sample / audiofile also had a measure of silence in the sound file too, after all the frequencies had decayed to zero.

then I would repeat the audio part 4 to eight times including the space and have a larger loop. each condition seemed to have the same bass end variance. so I thought.

so I put in this to see the spectral information.



this also showed variance in visual terms on a sound which was exactly the SAME sound and this sound was a monophonic file.

however, if I bounced down the file by copying the track with the kick and then gluing them together an played them together phase inverted, they would cancel.

theoretically this should eliminate the possibility of variance (but) if this bass end variance is fixed in some way globally and occurs prior to any plug-in (or) subsequently after some summing engine (which if the visualizer plug-in is to be believed in the master output) may well be happening, then the two files in this case may be being subject to the same (global) bass end variance so, they would still phase cancel earlier in the process.

I haven't tested it extensively so it's still just a set of hunches.

a DAW company wouldn't admit to this I guess, even if they identified it to be true and fixed it.
they would just say something like (improved Audio performance) in a press release etc.

however, they won't investigate it if no one points the possibility out.. so..

This all may or may not be connected with a plug-in sampler performance.

so we need not to mix up two separate things.
Old 31st December 2010
  #21
Lives for gear
They are technically different things but they both speak to problems where Logic could affect the outcome of your songs. I just want to reveal any potential problems here. Perhaps they can be fixed if enough people feel there us something to fix!
Old 31st December 2010
  #22
Lives for gear
 
jupiter8's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
In some plugins, when the CPU load reaches a certain level, the plugin switches to lower quality rendering. Same with the use of multiple processor cores, some VSTs render audio cruder if they have less processing power available.
Name one.
Old 31st December 2010
  #23
Lives for gear
I have never heard of this. If someone is designing plug INS to behave like that, I think that is a serious design flaw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter8 View Post
Name one.
Old 31st December 2010
  #24
Gear Head
 

Native Instruments' own Guitar Rig, for example, has a high def/low def switch to reduce CPU load. It is best used for preview rendering, but it should be switched to high def before rendering the final track.
Old 31st December 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 
jupiter8's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
Native Instruments' own Guitar Rig, for example, has a high def/low def switch to reduce CPU load. It is best used for preview rendering, but it should be switched to high def before rendering the final track.
Yeah but that's a manual setting,it does not switch all by itself when you reach a certain CPU load like you implied in the original claim. Sure there are plenty that you can switch quality on but none that does that automatique according to CPU load.
Old 31st December 2010
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Phaidon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
Why is it people don't want to believe anything anymore? It is all questioned like a person is a idiot!
From what I've seen around here, only the Logic clan does this.
Constantly.

Cheers
P.


Happy New Year !
Old 31st December 2010
  #27
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Is that the case? Or is it that problem solving isn't about declaring a true/false statement but narrowing down what's actually occuring so you can account for it?

In Logic 6 & 7 a potential for issues because the timebase was 960 PPQN (Pulses Per Quarter Note), ie, not derived from the current samplerate but rather from a midi timebase. Certain combinations of samplerate & tempo (especially with tempo changes) could cause values to fall on varying 'rounded' values, even when you simply selected a note in the event editor (you could see the absolute smpte value change.) This was changed in v8 and v9 doesn't have any phasing issues as far as I'm aware. I'm all ears for some concrete evidence though, but as of yet comparing Live to Logic to Cubendo (and Reaper) across both OSes the biggest difference is in how the buffer settings are handled & data is cached (at least in my experience.) There are certainly issues with Logic, and the Applification of the UI hasn't necessarily fixed everything.

However there are known issues with Reaper, Cubendo and etc. and the trick to being productive in whatever app is to know how to get work done.

The question for this thread is: Does Logic (version?) degrade Kontakt 4?

Comparing it to standalone on Win7, 10.6.5 (laptop+desktop) and across several DAWs I notice no major differences once I normalize pan law to -3dB (Logic defaults to -3dB compensated which Kontakt and my other apps do NOT.) I have a Multiface I on my Win7 machine, Multiface II on my Mac Pro and m-audio 410 that can be routed via spdif to either (to account for differences in the m-audio build quality.) Nothing stellar but I should be able to hear anything audible... And it's easy to eliminate velocity issues by not using complex sample programs (the playback material can still be whatever you want, just eliminate all pitch/velocity response and anything that will vary on a non-repeatable fashion, ie, fixed breakpoint at a given tempo or etc.)

One thing I do *personally* don't know is how Kontakt is translating it's output to the soundcard driver. Ie, 32bit float converted to 24bit by core audio? truncated? I would hazard a guess that the NI forum might be able to answer this...
Old 31st December 2010
  #28
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Is that the case? Or is it that problem solving isn't about declaring a true/false statement but narrowing down what's actually occuring so you can account for it?

In Logic 6 & 7 a potential for issues because the timebase was 960 PPQN (Pulses Per Quarter Note), ie, not derived from the current samplerate but rather from a midi timebase. Certain combinations of samplerate & tempo (especially with tempo changes) could cause values to fall on varying 'rounded' values, even when you simply selected a note in the event editor (you could see the absolute smpte value change.) This was changed in v8 and v9 doesn't have any phasing issues as far as I'm aware. I'm all ears for some concrete evidence though, but as of yet comparing Live to Logic to Cubendo (and Reaper) across both OSes the biggest difference is in how the buffer settings are handled & data is cached (at least in my experience.) There are certainly issues with Logic, and the Applification of the UI hasn't necessarily fixed everything.

However there are known issues with Reaper, Cubendo and etc. and the trick to being productive in whatever app is to know how to get work done.

The question for this thread is: Does Logic (version?) degrade Kontakt 4?

Comparing it to standalone on Win7, 10.6.5 (laptop+desktop) and across several DAWs I notice no major differences once I normalize pan law to -3dB (Logic defaults to -3dB compensated which Kontakt and my other apps do NOT.) I have a Multiface I on my Win7 machine, Multiface II on my Mac Pro and m-audio 410 that can be routed via spdif to either (to account for differences in the m-audio build quality.) Nothing stellar but I should be able to hear anything audible... And it's easy to eliminate velocity issues by not using complex sample programs (the playback material can still be whatever you want, just eliminate all pitch/velocity response and anything that will vary on a non-repeatable fashion, ie, fixed breakpoint at a given tempo or etc.)

One thing I do *personally* don't know is how Kontakt is translating it's output to the soundcard driver. Ie, 32bit float converted to 24bit by core audio? truncated? I would hazard a guess that the NI forum might be able to answer this...
Well as for the version of Logic in my case ( the O.P.) it is Logic 9/.2 and .3. The funny thing is I can even open the same Session in Both versions of the program and where the vocal and the Bass sits will change slightly. By sit I mean in context of the mix. It is a very small change but I would think there should be no change at all unless it was a added feature of an update. As far as I know the last update was about fixing the multi care threading issue for users of more than 8 cores. So why is it if I open a session in both versions the vocal changes some and the bass is slightly leaner in 9.1.2?

I know this originally was about Kontakt being hosted by Logic only but based on feedback by other forum members it seems the Kontakt issue could be a symptom of a bigger problem. It seems you are sayin that if optimized properly, These issues can be worked around. I hope i haven't mistated your comments. My problem is, why should a professional program need workarounds in the first place. Shouldn't it just work properly in the first place?

The way I see it is if I send a full(127) velocity note to a instrument standalone or in a host it should sound exactly the same as the programmers intended. Otherwise I am not getting full use of my instrument in the host! I understand that pan laws, velocity sensitivity etc. would need to be the same but the fact is on my system Kontakt appears to be a much better sounding instrument outside of Logic! If there is some really important setting that will change all that I would love to know what it is. Especially since that Kontakt instance will still sound better than the Bounce to disk copy from Logic. I am gonna try reaper with contact this evening and see what I hear. By the way my Mother in Law could clearlt hear the difference between Kontakt standalone and hosted!


BTW, Happy New Year to everyone and all your musical hope and dreams I wish to come true in 2011!!!!!
Old 1st January 2011
  #29
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
I have no idea how to account for the changes you're hearing, so I don't know how to 'fix' it. Ideally things should 'just work' but that assumes being able to account for possible combination of settings for every configuration. If Apple restricted us to only Apogee interfaces and only specific settings then it would simplify identifying issues I'm sure, but that's hardly what I want.

What you're saying to me sounds an awful lot like variations in core loading is affecting your mix, so I'm curious what your various settings are and what plugins you're using on auxes that might affect this. I know that setting my automation to "Volume, Pan, Sends, Plugin Parameters" (everything sample accurate) and setting plugin compensation set to "All" in audio preferences as well as insuring I have the proper internal sync options set for the samplerate (varaudio off etc) makes a difference.

Again I'm not saying that these issues don't exist for you if you're experiencing it, I just can't replicate that here. If you figure some combination of settings that causes an issue I'm willing to try to replicate it. And I'll be honest, I do periodically find things are amiss but I almost always find some setting I inadvertently changed without realizing it was impacting what I experienced, or (this hasn't happened for a while actually) an OS or Logic update affected a preferences or settings file somewhere and resolved that with the proper procedure (rebuild the prefs or etc.)

Now if we wanted to talk about the *transparency* of a given developer in terms of how responsive they are to the community, you could easily say that Apple is far behind the leaders of the pack here but that seems to be a product of their overall corporate culture.
Old 1st January 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
I have no idea how to account for the changes you're hearing, so I don't know how to 'fix' it. Ideally things should 'just work' but that assumes being able to account for possible combination of settings for every configuration. If Apple restricted us to only Apogee interfaces and only specific settings then it would simplify identifying issues I'm sure, but that's hardly what I want.

What you're saying to me sounds an awful lot like variations in core loading is affecting your mix, so I'm curious what your various settings are and what plugins you're using on auxes that might affect this. I know that setting my automation to "Volume, Pan, Sends, Plugin Parameters" (everything sample accurate) and setting plugin compensation set to "All" in audio preferences as well as insuring I have the proper internal sync options set for the samplerate (varaudio off etc) makes a difference.

Again I'm not saying that these issues don't exist for you if you're experiencing it, I just can't replicate that here. If you figure some combination of settings that causes an issue I'm willing to try to replicate it. And I'll be honest, I do periodically find things are amiss but I almost always find some setting I inadvertently changed without realizing it was impacting what I experienced, or (this hasn't happened for a while actually) an OS or Logic update affected a preferences or settings file somewhere and resolved that with the proper procedure (rebuild the prefs or etc.)

Now if we wanted to talk about the *transparency* of a given developer in terms of how responsive they are to the community, you could easily say that Apple is far behind the leaders of the pack here but that seems to be a product of their overall corporate culture.
Good enough. Interestingly enough your settings are the same as mine at least what you mentioned. I noticed after version 9.1.1 that something is going on in my system with Low latency mode. The mode is not properly engaging and bypassing. Some plugins that cause latency will still be monitored by the channel strip and on occasion a fader will actually move from it's position when I go from low latency back to normal. All of a sudden one sound will get really loud. I know this could be plug in related and I am still trying to track it down. I just don't understand how things that are fundemental to a program can work in one version than be broken in the next version? That just seems to be a pattern with apple owned Logic. Every update someone losses function of something that effects there way of working. You can find dozens of examples on this website.

I have no doubt people are running stable systems with Logic as there main DAW. the thing is with Logic, if I use 2 feature you don't I may have a completely different experience of the program. You don't need those 2 features and your system is stable. I use these 2 features and my system is not! Really I just want to know what DAW will allow me full fidelity of my VI's and be comprehensive enough to create full midi productions and mix my work. If there is something funedamentally wrong with Logic, creating in it and mixing in protools is not the answer for me!
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Fezzle / Music Computers
0
Beastie / Music Computers
1
whinecellar / Music Computers
15
quincyg / Music Computers
4
gigantorbuzz / So much gear, so little time
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump