The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Logic Degrading Kontakt 4!!!
Old 21st January 2011
  #91
Lives for gear
 
dannygold's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot View Post

Practically all DAWs use 32 bit internal representations with their plugins optionally switching to 64bit internally if it's needed.
Agree, except that 64bit float for internal mixing has been standard for years. I have it from a very reliable source at AVID that Pro Tools LE has been 64bit float for it's internal mixing at least as far back as v7 and this is industry standard for other DAWs as well.

PS

I really hope no one brings up 64 bit versions for new operating systems at this point but that's an entirely different issue having to do with how much RAM can be utilized by the program.
Old 21st January 2011
  #92
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannygold View Post
That's TOTALLY different because elastic audio and flex time use a stretching algorithm. Saying flex time and elastic audio sound different is like saying Dverb and Silververb sound different... of course they do because there's unique code there. Don't conclude from this that the summing engine of Logic vs. Pro Tools is different or playback of Kontakt are different. Very apples and oranges.



I have done that and tested via phase inversion and they always cancel. A far better test that what I THINK I'm hearing. I can prove they are the same.
I agree I brought up a broader range of subject but then again this post has gotten wider than the original question if you read everything here. I was not speaking to the kontakt issue anymore in my post you have responded too! I agree the Algos are different, I am also saying the ones in protools sound better for me. They sound better with my productions.

I am just saying there are enough areas that for ME Logic is compromised that I have no choice but to move until it improves. Someone else may feel different or experience different - just like we have all heard a change from a bypassed plug in or processor! The mind does play tricks and that is why null test are good. BTW I don't think the summing in Logic is the problem at all! I don't know what the problem is but I will tel you that EMAGIC technical manager told me once the issue was in the way Dither from 32bit float to 24 bit was implemented. This was at version 5 of Logic. He also said that the idea had been presented to the German coding team who stated that Logic audio engine was perfect and that no change would be made!

Surely if there was nothing to improve since version 5 of Logic then all DAWS should sound the same as there previous incarnations save new features. The thing is they do not, so something is adjustable in the design of a DAW from input to output! I can clearly hear that CUBASE/Nuendo and Protools have improved since my previous experience of them at version 5 of protools and version 3 of Nuendo. Otherwise it means we just all got better at using digital tools and the companies are just marketing us to death with claims of improvement!

At any rate I am not a zealot for any school of thought on the subject! I am just a Human spirit seeking to share my energy with others through the form of music...........
Old 22nd January 2011
  #93
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
Everything you are saying may be 100% true but the problem is that plug ins and operations are performing better in other DAWS than Logic. For instance try using Flex Audio anything in Logic then Protools and tell me which one has less audible artifacts. Or record a reference song into Logic and Protools Via your digital interface and then set levels pan law and everything else the same and tell me which one sounds most like the reference. There is just work Apple has to do. Question is will they?
yes protools plugins sound better i noticed and yup right!

i put on a compressor and it was the best stock plugin i ever heard no doubt ,but i have uad plugs so i brushed it off

so ok ill still do a mix with stock plugs

but then protool would sound better with all stock plugins no question !

you still never answer reborn about using 16 mono outs for kontakt in logic ??
Old 22nd January 2011
  #94
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicdawn View Post
I have noticed that Pan Laws is the audiophiles new favorite.
For example claiming that one pan law is better than the other one. Do they really know what it is? It may not be as mystic as you think it is actually
The issue comes up because pan law can account for quite audible differences in 'spaciousness' and 'presence' simply by changing the overall amount of apparent gain & width versus center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
I agree I brought up a broader range of subject but then again this post has gotten wider than the original question if you read everything here. I was not speaking to the kontakt issue anymore in my post you have responded too! I agree the Algos are different, I am also saying the ones in protools sound better for me. They sound better with my productions
What soundcard are you using for PT & Logic, and which driver do you use in Logic? And the rest of your argument is entirely too varied to really address in the scope of this discussion (or at least by me).

Iit would be interesting to compare configurations for people who seem to feel that something is amiss with Logic. Not just pan law in project settings, but also sync settings and what soundcard(s) and driver(s) are being compared with other apps.

Again I have Logic on 2 machines, 1 which uses RME drivers & 1 which uses Serato/M-audio drivers (the latter of which are crap for performance but don't audibly change anything audibly if I skip the DAC's and use spdif to my main machine.) I also have Live on both machines, and Bidule on both Macs and 2 PC's which also have Reaper, Cubase and Studio One (recent addition.) I have yet to notice 'the fundamental frequency of snares' being obscured or anything like you note when not using plugins, though I can of course identify large differences between each app's native plugins. I do *not* hear any difference in my PSP/NI/Fxpansion/Voxengo/etc plugins between any of the machines in the sense that this thread is discussing, and not Kontakt. This is easy for me to verify since I use these machinesd & tools frequently. That doesn't mean I'm dismissing the claims being made here re: sound quality for those experiencing it, just that I suspect you're mistaken on the source of the issue.

I *do* remember a time when the native summing engine of Cubase VST sounded different than Logic 3.x (and before with atari Cubase & Notator etc), and more recently when Live's summing engine had actual issues that were documented & known that have been subsequently fixed. So if there is some difference that's apparent on your configurations when all else is normalized (pan laws, same audio material & plugins etc) then you should be able to figure out where it's coming from and document it. I just suspect if there is a problem it's not "Logic" per se, but rather something related to configuration/drivers/or something like iTunes 10.1.1 affecting Core Audio based drivers while PT/DAE remains unaffected.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #95
Here for the gear
 

Logic Degrading Kontakt 4!!!

If you change pan laws while working on a project, it will no doubt sound different because the level would change. But any pan setting is possible with any pan law, it's just a way of compensating the level when you do a pan. It's nothing about signal from one channel crossing over to the other. The stereo information is exactly the same.

Vsti and midi. I have never experienced sloppy midi timing with virtual instruments. I don't think it's a valid concern unless you use hardware synths. And if there was it would be because of an error with the vsti and not the host.

It's been proven over and over again that all major hosts sound the same.
The sound of the bundled instruments and effects obviously sound different, that is because they are different.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #96
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayclas View Post
yes protools plugins sound better i noticed and yup right!

i put on a compressor and it was the best stock plugin i ever heard no doubt ,but i have uad plugs so i brushed it off

so ok ill still do a mix with stock plugs

but then protool would sound better with all stock plugins no question !

you still never answer reborn about using 16 mono outs for kontakt in logic ??
There are far more choices for Kontakt in Logic than 16 mono, Which is set up for using a instance multi timbral and seperate outs. There is also stereo/ mono and 8 stereo outs.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #97
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
The issue comes up because pan law can account for quite audible differences in 'spaciousness' and 'presence' simply by changing the overall amount of apparent gain & width versus center.


What soundcard are you using for PT & Logic, and which driver do you use in Logic? And the rest of your argument is entirely too varied to really address in the scope of this discussion (or at least by me).

Iit would be interesting to compare configurations for people who seem to feel that something is amiss with Logic. Not just pan law in project settings, but also sync settings and what soundcard(s) and driver(s) are being compared with other apps.

Again I have Logic on 2 machines, 1 which uses RME drivers & 1 which uses Serato/M-audio drivers (the latter of which are crap for performance but don't audibly change anything audibly if I skip the DAC's and use spdif to my main machine.) I also have Live on both machines, and Bidule on both Macs and 2 PC's which also have Reaper, Cubase and Studio One (recent addition.) I have yet to notice 'the fundamental frequency of snares' being obscured or anything like you note when not using plugins, though I can of course identify large differences between each app's native plugins. I do *not* hear any difference in my PSP/NI/Fxpansion/Voxengo/etc plugins between any of the machines in the sense that this thread is discussing, and not Kontakt. This is easy for me to verify since I use these machinesd & tools frequently. That doesn't mean I'm dismissing the claims being made here re: sound quality for those experiencing it, just that I suspect you're mistaken on the source of the issue.

I *do* remember a time when the native summing engine of Cubase VST sounded different than Logic 3.x (and before with atari Cubase & Notator etc), and more recently when Live's summing engine had actual issues that were documented & known that have been subsequently fixed. So if there is some difference that's apparent on your configurations when all else is normalized (pan laws, same audio material & plugins etc) then you should be able to figure out where it's coming from and document it. I just suspect if there is a problem it's not "Logic" per se, but rather something related to configuration/drivers/or something like iTunes 10.1.1 affecting Core Audio based drivers while PT/DAE remains unaffected.
I am using a RME Fireface UFX and a Apogee Duet!
Old 22nd January 2011
  #98
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
I just came across this in an August 2010 post.

It's about having to use Logic 7 in order to import Logic songs (saved in version 6 and earlier) and be able to load them into version 9.

anyhow..

"You don't need 3 versions of Logic. You need Logic 7 to open previous Logic sessions (including PC sessions if you need to). Logic 9 will open a Logic 7 session. Just remember to uncheck "Pan law applies to stereo balancers" so you don't experience a 3 dB loss"

That looks like it could mean that in version 9 and possibly V8 the pan law does apply to stereo balances. ?

eerrr or is it the other way round.

I'm going to have to remember to force myself to use .L .R instead of interleaved Stereo. been meaning to do that for ages.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #99
Lives for gear
 
jupiter8's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
I'm going to have to remember to force myself to use .L .R instead of interleaved Stereo. been meaning to do that for ages.
What good would that possible do, except for potentially degrading performance ?
Old 22nd January 2011
  #100
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Don't get sidetracked by the pan law thing, it's just an example.

The point I'm making is that before ascribing differences in output between DAWs to one DAW being sonically inferior, you really should eliminate the obvious settings that might generate those differences (pan law being one that affects perceived output) and after that if there's still differences, are we experiencing some bug that's harder to discern? My example there was the recent iTunes bug that seems to affect the core audio driver when it's changed while iTunes was open (and seems to affect others always.)

Since not everyone seems to be experiencing these differences, then dealing with the things that might be different (settings, drivers, bugs with certain plugins) seems to be a rather obvious place to start.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #101
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
There are far more choices for Kontakt in Logic than 16 mono, Which is set up for using a instance multi timbral and seperate outs. There is also stereo/ mono and 8 stereo outs.
That's why I asked I know there's 8 mono out but that's where the audible difference is in logic if you use any mono out .

Cubase don't give you a mono out option

besides that there pretty close I like dithering algo in cubase maybe because its from nuendo which cubase didn't have b4 c4 and people said cubase sound the same but it didn't unless you bounced live to a deck

So my question to you is how do you bounce down to stereo?
Old 22nd January 2011
  #102
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter8 View Post
What good would that possible do, except for potentially degrading performance ?
My reason was because I want to have proper independent EQ etc on every track. also I want fader and pans to be independent as well.

interleaved stereo makes the picture more constrained than a .L .R scheme.

The lack of clarity as to what is happening with pan laws is really just an additional reason for me to remind myself to remodel my use of stereo.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #103
Gear Maniac
 

LOGIC does have a problem with it's sound engine
Although It;s the best DAW IMO in regards of composing a song -has excelent MIDI capabilities and has many features which help you do a song arrangement quickly.
But I too admit, it has problems with the sound engine- mostly in Lows and Low Mids area
and All DAWs DO sound different -it's a fact -
I remember we made a test with a Metalica's NOTHING ELSE MATTERS song multitracks - loaded the tracks into CUBASE, LOGIC , SAMPLITUDE ,SAW STUDIO ,and PRESONUS STUDIO1 all with the same settings with PAN LOW = 0 Db in every DAW, bounced to disk and then listened to bounced tracks = THERE was a difference -not night and day -but quite audible between those DAWS...unfortunately I dont have those files available now- but anyone who has time and friends which use differend DAWs can spend some time testing.. I thing the multitrack of NOTHING ELSE MATTERS can be found in internet.
as I remember LOGIC seemed to sound as if it had some stereo widener plugin on the master bus inserted ( But as I said earlieir there were the same settings of level and of course not a single plugin in the chain) so at first listen Logics bounce sounded more attractive than the rest, but later as we were listening it was clear that it was at the expence of clarity in LOWs and LOW mids and also highs were not as good as in for examle in samplitude or SAW studio, I also remember that Cubase sounded strange to my ears it was 2D in comparison to others -and had a digitally harsh flavour, Logic was better in that respect and had more 3 dimmensional feeling to it. Also Presonus Studio One had solid meaty sound but had kind of less stereo, more center oriented presentation of sound ...
I remember I spent several days listening to those files and I really regreted that LOGIC and Cubase were disapointments for me because I really liked them... I sold my Cubase copy still use Logic , but only for composing - for mixing now it's Pro Tools which we never tested against the others, but overall I like the way it sounds...
if someone had time and availability of differend DAWs and multitrack stems of Nothing else matters could make that test and upload it for everyone to listen- it might be realy interesting experience as I assure you can hear the differnce in sound engines with your own ears ...
Old 23rd January 2011
  #104
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TankT34 View Post
LOGIC does have a problem with it's sound engine
Although It;s the best DAW IMO in regards of composing a song -has excelent MIDI capabilities and has many features which help you do a song arrangement quickly.
But I too admit, it has problems with the sound engine- mostly in Lows and Low Mids area
and All DAWs DO sound different -it's a fact -
I remember we made a test with a Metalica's NOTHING ELSE MATTERS song multitracks - loaded the tracks into CUBASE, LOGIC , SAMPLITUDE ,SAW STUDIO ,and PRESONUS STUDIO1 all with the same settings with PAN LOW = 0 Db in every DAW, bounced to disk and then listened to bounced tracks = THERE was a difference -not night and day -but quite audible between those DAWS...unfortunately I dont have those files available now- but anyone who has time and friends which use differend DAWs can spend some time testing.. I thing the multitrack of NOTHING ELSE MATTERS can be found in internet.
as I remember LOGIC seemed to sound as if it had some stereo widener plugin on the master bus inserted ( But as I said earlieir there were the same settings of level and of course not a single plugin in the chain) so at first listen Logics bounce sounded more attractive than the rest, but later as we were listening it was clear that it was at the expence of clarity in LOWs and LOW mids and also highs were not as good as in for examle in samplitude or SAW studio, I also remember that Cubase sounded strange to my ears it was 2D in comparison to others -and had a digitally harsh flavour, Logic was better in that respect and had more 3 dimmensional feeling to it. Also Presonus Studio One had solid meaty sound but had kind of less stereo, more center oriented presentation of sound ...
I remember I spent several days listening to those files and I really regreted that LOGIC and Cubase were disapointments for me because I really liked them... I sold my Cubase copy still use Logic , but only for composing - for mixing now it's Pro Tools which we never tested against the others, but overall I like the way it sounds...
if someone had time and availability of differend DAWs and multitrack stems of Nothing else matters could make that test and upload it for everyone to listen- it might be realy interesting experience as I assure you can hear the differnce in sound engines with your own ears ...
cubase sounded bad before they got the apogee dither plug in but now it sound fanastic to me there is a differnce tho

im having a problem mixing this one song in logic it sound really bad kontakt isnt having that issue in logic as long as you dont use the mono outs the wrong way it sound the same to me in all daws

my uad plugin are better thing stock protools,cubase and logic plugins

im gonna do a mix with all stock plugins in cubase and logic

then use the effects but in uad flavor and to me that will tell that the plugins used is the most important objective for the best results

again i think protools has the best stock compressors im not sure about the rest but logic give the largest selection

tankt did you hear the blind and string test on this link there really close im blaming mp3 converting algorithms so im gonna export in 24 bit realtime then use the same wave editor for all example then you guys have to vote and stop saying what sounds better
Old 23rd January 2011
  #105
Lives for gear
Old 23rd January 2011
  #106
Gear Head
 

It seems a lot of the discussion here details how DAWs sound different with dithering, exporting, plugins, pan law, etc...

Different DAWs may have different settings enabled by default that would affect sound in various ways.

Someone here mentioned dithering. When a track is rendered with dithering to 16-bit, it will have different sonic characteristics than the original 24-bit track. Different dithering methods will also produce different results.

Exporting to mp3 or ANY compressed format will absolutely alter the quality of the sound. There are also various mp3 compressors that produce different sounding results.

Even when previewing a track live in a DAW, it may use various real-time rendering algorithms that would alter the sound. If you mix different bit-depth/sample rate tracks/synths/samples in the same project, there will be a conversion SOMEWHERE in the preview/rendering process, leading to differences in sound.

However, as far the DAW itself coloring or EQ-ing the sound, with no plugins, same settings, volume, pan law and everything, especially an un-dithered track, that seems to be unlikely.

Apparently, it is a never-ending discussion. I see audio engineers on SoundonSound.com saying there is no difference between unprocessed DAW renders. On other forums, people say otherwise. It is a scientific process, I wonder how hard it would be to do a proper, unbiased test.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #107
Lives for gear
 
j-uk's Avatar
 

We used to have Mac vs PC.......
Now we have this.....
Old 23rd January 2011
  #108
16942
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
It seems a lot of the discussion here details how DAWs sound different with dithering, exporting, plugins, pan law, etc...

Different DAWs may have different settings enabled by default that would affect sound in various ways.

Someone here mentioned dithering. When a track is rendered with dithering to 16-bit, it will have different sonic characteristics than the original 24-bit track. Different dithering methods will also produce different results.

Exporting to mp3 or ANY compressed format will absolutely alter the quality of the sound. There are also various mp3 compressors that produce different sounding results.

Even when previewing a track live in a DAW, it may use various real-time rendering algorithms that would alter the sound. If you mix different bit-depth/sample rate tracks/synths/samples in the same project, there will be a conversion SOMEWHERE in the preview/rendering process, leading to differences in sound.

However, as far the DAW itself coloring or EQ-ing the sound, with no plugins, same settings, volume, pan law and everything, especially an un-dithered track, that seems to be unlikely.

Apparently, it is a never-ending discussion. I see audio engineers on SoundonSound.com saying there is no difference between unprocessed DAW renders. On other forums, people say otherwise. It is a scientific process, I wonder how hard it would be to do a proper, unbiased test.
There have been a number of these done. The consensus of a majority of audio pros opinions that I have read is that while there is indeed some difference in the inhersnt sound of DAWS using the same hardware, same pan laws, etc. it is not nearly as significant a difference when compared to many other factors, foremost being the writing, singing and playing and mixing skills of the users.

As always, it is far more the guy than the gear.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #109
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashermusic View Post
There have been a number of these done. The consensus of a majority of audio pros opinions that I have read is that while there is indeed some difference in the inhersnt sound of DAWS using the same harware, same pan laws, etc. it is not nearly as significant a difference when compared to many other factors, foremost being the writing, singing and playing and mixing skills of the users.

As always, it is far more the guy than the gear.
yup also logic is better for composing for some reason my music creative value is higher i guess thats why its called logic but i like mixing in cubase maybe because of the melodyne style pitch correction or it virtually patch signals around in a way i like or my uad plugs or on pc hehe but its great to have both i would never use just one daw anymore

now i have more tools and o yea toys to play with
Old 24th January 2011
  #110
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashermusic View Post
There have been a number of these done. The consensus of a majority of audio pros opinions that I have read is that while there is indeed some difference in the inhersnt sound of DAWS using the same hardware, same pan laws, etc. it is not nearly as significant a difference when compared to many other factors, foremost being the writing, singing and playing and mixing skills of the users.

As always, it is far more the guy than the gear.
Awesomely put.

I do not suppose many consumers out there go "Man, this album could have sounded so much better if the artist had used Y DAW instead of X..."

I also do not suppose many mastering engineers tell the recording/mixing engineer or the artist that "I could make better quality masters if you mixed this album on Z DAW instead of Y..."

They most likely tell them "Why the heck does the waveform of your whole album look like a solid rectangle?"
Old 24th January 2011
  #111
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
Awesomely put.

I do not suppose many consumers out there go "Man, this album could have sounded so much better if the artist had used Y DAW instead of X..."

I also do not suppose many mastering engineers tell the recording/mixing engineer or the artist that "I could make better quality masters if you mixed this album on Z DAW instead of Y..."

They most likely tell them "Why the heck does the waveform of your whole album look like a solid rectangle?"
i think they do ie protools
Old 24th January 2011
  #112
Gear Head
 

Of course, some mastering studios may have support for mastering from certain DAW project formats, ProTools being one of them, but probably they have no preference of sound. So if they just receive a rendered stereo wave file for mastering, they are not too concerned with the originating DAW. They also use more mastering-oriented software, such as SADiE, which has formatting functions to prepare a master for pressing "regular" DAWs do not have.
Old 25th January 2011
  #113
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
Awesomely put.

I do not suppose many consumers out there go "Man, this album could have sounded so much better if the artist had used Y DAW instead of X..."

I also do not suppose many mastering engineers tell the recording/mixing engineer or the artist that "I could make better quality masters if you mixed this album on Z DAW instead of Y..."

They most likely tell them "Why the heck does the waveform of your whole album look like a solid rectangle?"
sure we do in different ways tho some albums just dont have that magic

i remember kanye west 2nd album came out and it was good music but it just sounded ultra clean but to dry i couldnt figure out why it sounded better on the radio then actual cd

then i realized that fm has a little noise in it not harmonic distortion but i guess it helped

check out his new song run away i know its a hit but theres something wrong with the vocals he need a good tube mic or a great plugin or something so i hear records all the time and take them apart we all to

there has been many complaints about p diddy's quality for years theres talk about bad cd's i always thought protools sounded to dry and clean because that vintage sound or tape was missing something ive heard my whole life

now that i have magnetic im sure ill here a record and say they shouldve used a better tape sim
Old 25th January 2011
  #114
16942
Guest
jayclas, hereis a little advice which of course you are fee to ignore if you choose.

I was taught as a young man that when I found myself disagreeing with people who are more successful and more experienced, as presumably P-diddy and Kanye are to you, I should ask myself not" Why are they so wrong?" but "What is their experience telling them that I am missing?"

Self-confidence is good. When mixed with humility it is even better.
Old 25th January 2011
  #115
Gear Head
 

I guess if something sounds "too clean" it can always be altered with a plugin, such as a tape emulator or warmer, probably on any DAW.

As far as well-selling artists having more experience, (or often, it is more like their recording/mixing/mastering engineers and producers having the experience), it really does not matter in the end. Ultimately, for the listener, what counts is whether he or she likes it or not, and for the artist, whether he or she makes money on it.

There was another thread on here about the latest Jay-Z CD having digital clipping. It still sold well.
Old 25th January 2011
  #116
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashermusic View Post
jayclas, hereis a little advice which of course you are fee to ignore if you choose.

I was taught as a young man that when I found myself disagreeing with people who are more successful and more experienced, as presumably P-diddy and Kanye are to you, I should ask myself not" Why are they so wrong?" but "What is their experience telling them that I am missing?"

Self-confidence is good. When mixed with humility it is even better.
thats cool but as we compare albums there is a differents i never thought pdiddy stuff sounded bad i was quoting what i read but my opinion about kanye's was mine

growing up listening to all music i heard there drums in rock music as well as amazing leads so maybe i wanted that same feeling from hip hop its not ending with kanye or diddy

the only think im saying is i do just the mixing and mastering on every album i listen to ok so you guys never hear a mediocre cd ?

in learning our craft to get closer to our goals to not study the science and archieve skills is imposible so yes sometime wonder y they F up a good song!

it's not the Aesthetic value but technical observations i find that very hard to believe and im sure you dont blindly endulge casually all the time?
Old 25th January 2011
  #117
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elteto View Post
I guess if something sounds "too clean" it can always be altered with a plugin, such as a tape emulator or warmer, probably on any DAW.

As far as well-selling artists having more experience, (or often, it is more like their recording/mixing/mastering engineers and producers having the experience), it really does not matter in the end. Ultimately, for the listener, what counts is whether he or she likes it or not, and for the artist, whether he or she makes money on it.

There was another thread on here about the latest Jay-Z CD having digital clipping. It still sold well.
jay z is a house hold name christ elvis can come from the died and his cd can clip and yup it will sell! its not about sales !!!!!we debat and the best rappers all the time and why the F is soulja boy name coming up at all o because he sells

if milli vanilli woudnt havent got caught .....man they won grammy's come on man there pretty boy image sold them and not how well that guy that actually sang the songs can sing it was marketing!


anyway ok ur both right in your world ill keep doing what sound good to me and my clients
Old 25th January 2011
  #118
Gear Addict
 

its all about big label budgets without that then you wouldnt be able to clip

but ok lets flip this if i were a actor basing my acting skillz off of say a arnold schwarzenegger nowing its bad acting but because he sell not his acting wouldnt get my career a fair chance

guys are so quick to use rule of thumb and spread it over everything sorry but they dont apply this time

im 37 and just because i didnt meet the right people to put the right people around me still dont mean i cant hear a dull dry sounding cd regardless of who
cd it is?im just saying tho i get ur point but every commercial release isnt perfect imo
Old 26th January 2011
  #119
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Just chalk it up to being entitled to your own opinion...though I do understand Asher's point this is getting a bit OT from the OP though, no?
Old 26th January 2011
  #120
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
Just chalk it up to being entitled to your own opinion...though I do understand Asher's point this is getting a bit OT from the OP though, no?
yea man well the obvious thing with that kontakt and logic is that logic gives you a 8 mono and 16 mono out and cubase only give you 8 or 16 stereo

so when you use the mono out, the frequencies cancel each other out giving you a totally different sound thus a noticable difference

but we all went through trial and era i just get upset when someone think there approach is better i just dont let any one say anything i do stand for quality regardless of who master for kanye records and i havent bought a kanye album since tho i think he's talented

i usaully buy what i can listen to over and over that is all

but i have alot of respect for jayasher and i actually appreciate his advice !he seem like a genuine guy
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Fezzle / Music Computers
0
Beastie / Music Computers
1
whinecellar / Music Computers
15
quincyg / Music Computers
4
gigantorbuzz / So much gear, so little time
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump