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Sandy Bridge Preview tests
Old 10th January 2011
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vfr View Post
I see no good reason to offer both 1156 and 1366 versions of CPUs/MBs (not to mention other socket form factors like 1567 etc.).

Sure, when new technology usurps older legacy designs a new socket design may be needed. But three different form factors for core2 CPUs?
Hmmm. The archtecture behind 775 and 1366 is quite different and once more the change over to 1155 acturly does justify the change. I was cursing the difference of a pin prior to testing it all, but having examined the block diagrams for the chipset layout, the is a hell of a lot more changes that I first anticipated. Some of these could be quite benifical and some could be a pain depending upon your configuration.

The reason 1156 and 1366 existed side by side is that those extra pins on the 1366 gave out the extra juice that your 6 cores need for stability and overclocking. You'll notice too that at least another one is on the road map for this year so it's not quite as dead as people are making out yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfa View Post
All things being equal, does it make sense to have a 2600k in a H67 motherboard? If the graphics is good enough(?)for DAW work, then it should lead to less heat and therefore less noise via fans ans still be overclocked if needed.
Am I missing something about the difference between the H67 and the P67 motherboards?
Thanks
You can't overclock on the H67 series and believe me you'll probably want too if you get a 2600k as that's when it gets into the i7 970 benchmark region.
Old 10th January 2011
  #92
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And is graphics processor on 2600 good enough for DAW work?
Old 10th January 2011
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomcore View Post
And is graphics processor on 2600 good enough for DAW work?
Any gfx these days is fine for DAW work. I don't think 2D gfx have advanced really in the last decade.

The is another chipset range to be added to the H and P versions later this year (Q67 I think) that allows you to both overclock and use onboard gfx (2 ouputs). That may prove to be the better all round board when it appears.
Old 10th January 2011
  #94
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Kaine View Post
Any gfx these days is fine for DAW work. I don't think 2D gfx have advanced really in the last decade.

The is another chipset range to be added to the H and P versions later this year (Q67 I think) that allows you to both overclock and use onboard gfx (2 ouputs). That may prove to be the better all round board when it appears.

Its frustrating for those of us looking to build in the next couple of months. Im kinda concerned about the current P & H67 boards with only dual channel ram versus the potential 3 and 4 channel ram that is to come out alongside the high-end SB boards. I cant help but feel that I will run into trouble with dual channel ram one day, that I otherwise wouldnt if having triple or quad channel ram. granted it may be way off in the future, but still.
Old 10th January 2011
  #95
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valis's Avatar
iHow would you 'run into trouble'? If your workload is memory bandwidth intensive and you push your system to the upper limits during working, then hold out for the higher end. Even with the now-obsolescing Lynnfield (LGA-1156) quads the cpu performance is great and the new SB chips eclipse those by quite a bit....so I don't see a 'problem' unless you're perhaps doing 300-500 voicecount rompler/sample playback (orchestral projects for film or etc.) Or want 128 i/o with 4 MADI cards...etc
Old 10th January 2011
  #96
Gear Maniac
Well to bring out a brand new intel chip and and motherboards to support it and not have triple channel ram options from the get-go seems a little bit strange to me, unless there's reasons for it that I am not understanding. It just doesnt seem to make as much sense when most 1156 MBs have triple channel available.
Old 10th January 2011
  #97
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Note to PT9 Sandy Bridge seekers: I don't know everything, but you could definitely run into problems with "H" (onboard) video playing nice with PT9 - and your choice of video card is gonna have a big effect on how PT9 behaves in general on SB mobos. It's pretty wild and wooly in this area right now. You could get lucky, or . . .
Old 10th January 2011
  #98
vfr
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My understanding is that 1156 boards do NOT have triple channel memory. The 1155 boards are the new version of (dual channel) 1156 MBs. The replacement for 1366 boards with triple channel memory will follow after the release of 1155 and their respective CPUs.

So if huge memory and faster memory access are really important to you, then it maybe better to wait for the Sandy Bridge CPUs/MBs which support triple channel (or just go with a 6 core intel CPU and 1366).
Old 11th January 2011
  #99
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Scott, does the onboard video create problems for audio?

Do you find onboard fast enough for decent HD video editing?
Old 11th January 2011
  #100
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From what I've read from the review sites the "H67" motherboards which will allow you to use the onboard video are not overclockable or barely overclockable. Seems like your best bet right now for a Sandybridge build is to go with a 2600K unlocked CPU with a P67 motherboard that will let you do overclocking and then add a separate video card. Looks like how good of an overclock you will get is pretty much determined by how good of a CPU chip you get with most of the reviewers getting 4.4Ghz to 4.8Ghz with air cooling. One review site said the "D1" stepping chips were overclocking better than the "D2" stepping chips. Spending extra to use water cooling will not help get extra speed with these chips and excessive cooling they say will even slow them down. The Asus boards have a new bios for their socket 1155 boards that will do the overclocking for you automatically in the bios with a 5 to 20 minute test. The bios does one small speed increase after another till it reaches a limit. It pretty much makes getting some extra speed from a build idiot proof but then I'm reminded of what Einstein once said: "There are only two things that are infinate, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the first one". Looks like better ram will help though, given you can probably find 8 gigs of cas 7 DDR3 for $110 it's not going to cost much more over the cheapo stuff. As to whether an Intel 2600K / P67 motherboard combo works great for a DAW box, time will tell. Who wants to be the first crash test dummy? By the end of Feb. we should be hearing about performance and pricing of the next generation AMD Bulldozer line. Might be prudent to wait six weeks to see if AMD has a contender and if not let the dust settle with the Sandybridges to see how well they work as DAW boxes.
Old 11th January 2011
  #101
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kurt1111's Avatar
 

Been waiting for Bulldozer forever. I have a feeling Intel is about to get bulldozed.
Old 11th January 2011
  #102
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Kurt,

the onboard video on the board we tried (all the same onboard but may be differences) was ok but not great. large track count with zoom in was a tad slow. some screen redraws were a tad slow as well
Waves needs a good open GL, have not got to testing this as we fried the mobo with the onboard video and its not going to be what we sell anyway.
we will be trying Matx boards to revamp our "Qube" system. it will be fine for budget systems but not pro level.

and as far as Bulldozer dont bet on it.. the very best AMD has to offer now (magna cours) falls very short of even a single 980x never mind Dual Xeons..

Bassmankr,
we have already validated this platform..with the right board its good to go..
only part of the crash dummy is picking the right board.. and then learning how to get it to work.. this platform is totally different from previous.

we have a stable 4.7GHz OC no crazy cooling, no radical ram i dont see much past that with better cooling as the CPU is not hitting a thermal wall. its hitting max silicon ability.

Scott
ADK
Old 11th January 2011
  #103
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
we have a stable 4.7GHz OC
Wow, that’s a serious overclock!
Old 11th January 2011
  #104
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Neenja's Avatar
 

I have a 2500k using the onboard GPU, OCed to 3.6 no problems so far. It did require a complete reinstall as was noted earlier.
Old 11th January 2011
  #105
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I understand the hype that surrounds all new products including ones just launched however nobody but AMD and the motherboard makers know what the Bulldozers are going to do. We just have to wait six weeks till that info leaks to the net after their big conference. Maybe they will leapfrog Intel like they have in the past, maybe it will be a dud but at this point in time it is only speculation either way. Like I said Sandybridge OC's are pretty much how lucky you are in the CPU chip lottery with most reviewers getting 4.4Ghz to 4.8Gh, Scot's 4.7Ghz is in that range. Good ram will push it a bit further and for the extra $30 it costs for 8 gigs of better ram it's worth it. With ram they are saying look for DDR3-1600 1.5volt CL7. I have not seen any info on whether loading the board with 16 gigs of ram effects the overclock. As most DIY'ers have just picked up their CPU's this week I'm sure in a week or two that info will be out there. You really have to watch upping voltages with the Sandybridges per reviewers and directly from Intel as it's easy to kill this chip. Overclocking is primarily done just through raising the multiplier of the unlocked "K" chips, non "K" chips will not or barely overclock. I'm glad Scot found a working Sandybridge combination, given some time the DIY'ers will share their findings too.
Old 12th January 2011
  #106
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Micro Center has up thier first i7 2600k machine

Micro Center - PowerSpec G210 Desktop Computer 216390

2600k with p67 express chipset..hmmmm

What do you guys think about that and the pricepoint they have?
Old 12th January 2011
  #107
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The pro game is all about motherboards and power supplies, and the PowerSpec is going to have the cheapest variations of both and a proprietary bios. So, if you're goofing around it'll probably be fine, but if you're serious, its limitations will reveal themselves.
Old 12th January 2011
  #108
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Powerspec according to microcenter does not use prop. parts and it uses an Intel extreme motherboard.
Old 12th January 2011
  #109
Gear Head
 
kurt1111's Avatar
 

Check this out both Windows a running off the same chip
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
I think this is the beginning of the end of separate graphic cards.
Old 12th January 2011
  #110
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
Micro Center has up thier first i7 2600k machine

Micro Center - PowerSpec G210 Desktop Computer 216390

2600k with p67 express chipset..hmmmm

What do you guys think about that and the pricepoint they have?
That certainly is a low price for such a powerful computer.

One good thing is that the i7-2600 and graphic cards in that system use relatively low watts for such high performance.
Old 12th January 2011
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
Powerspec according to microcenter does not use prop. parts and it uses an Intel extreme motherboard.
OK, I'll jump back on the motherboard. Now let's talk about the "500-watt power supply" and the price.

I made the mistake of assuming this rig was priced like PowerSpec's previous offerings, like way cheap. Excuse me if I don't happen to find $1500 USD particularly cheap. Now you're into custom build territory. It does explain why they include an Intel DP67BG, which is in fact probably a great board.

But now we're back to that price - which to me is top dollar - and the no-name power supply you will have to replace if you're a serious DAW user. You may not be, and there's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist or semipro. But $1500 is pro money, and call it $1625 with a power supply to equal the mobo, and $1750 with tax.

Now let's talk about the time you'll need to tame it for DAW service. Scott from ADK calls 1155 a tough chipset for him to configure out of the gate: it may or may not be realistic to feel it will be simple for you. If you get stuck, how much is your time worth on hold for tech support and/or having to hire someone to tame the machine? That dilemma is always present in a DAW build, but never so much so as when a new chipset is released.

So I don't really see a price savings at all, much less one anywhere near worth buying this machine. Others may disagree and already have.
Old 12th January 2011
  #112
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Neenja's Avatar
 

It doesn't seem that cheap to me as it has more video cards than a DAW needs and it's a cheap case. There aren't that many 1155 boards ATM, so I suspect that would be fairly safe.
Old 12th January 2011
  #113
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
only part of the crash dummy is picking the right board.. and then learning how to get it to work..
Any suggestions?
Old 12th January 2011
  #114
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Neenja's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
only part of the crash dummy is picking the right board.. and then learning how to get it to work.. this platform is totally different from previous.


Scott
ADK
Guess, I just got lucky, but when I saw that I was having video issues with an old install I reinstalled and mine is working perfectly.
Old 12th January 2011
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenja View Post
Guess, I just got lucky, but when I saw that I was having video issues with an old install I reinstalled and mine is working perfectly.
there is working (i got windows installed)
and there is working @ 100% capability setting turbo correctly ram @ 1600 etc etc.
Old 12th January 2011
  #116
Gear Maniac
 

Looks like you better watch out with the voltage when overclocking:

alarming amount of reports of Sandybridge CPU's dying
Old 12th January 2011
  #117
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
there is working (i got windows installed)
and there is working @ 100% capability setting turbo correctly ram @ 1600 etc etc.
So then, any suggestions? If you'd rather not say (I guess it is sort of against your interests) that's quite alright, but if you don't ask..

I'm sorta swaying toward the intel dp67bg for it's TI firewire chipset, lack of annoying bells and whistles and sane price but would rather somebody else was on guinea pig duty :-)

Not going to be overclocking, just want something rock solid at stock with plenty of slots. PCI (non-e) that works properly would be nice too as I've got some old cards. Firewire isn't actually essential, just handy in a pinch.

Will probably just sit on it for a month and watch the complaints pop up..
Old 12th January 2011
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
there is working (i got windows installed)
and there is working @ 100% capability setting turbo correctly ram @ 1600 etc etc.
I'm curious what the advantage is running RAM at 1600 when i9xx CPU only runs 1066 and i2xxx CPU only runs 1333.

Doesn't 1600 RAM dummy down to 1333 or 1066 anyway? What's the real world advantage for recording?

Why not just save the money or add more RAM? Is it a bragging rights kinda thing?

Lastly, is running 1600 RAM on a 1066 or 1333 CPU considered overclocking?
Old 12th January 2011
  #119
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wow where to start with that one..
running at 1600 means running at 1600
not downclocked to 1333 or 1066..

Quote:
9xx CPU only runs 1066 and i2xxx CPU only runs 1333
dont confuse stated memory type (Intels official spec) of 800/1066
with what the system can really do.


why would an intel brand motherboard support 1600 if their CPUs cant do it?
Intel® Desktop Board DX58SO2 - Overview

Intel® Desktop Board DP67BG - Overview

heh

other boards support DDR3 2000+ but then you get into serious tweaking/over clocking as much a geek as i am i dont ship systems that geeked up.. pro level systems need 100% stability.
back in the day when i did a lot of gaming systems maybe on the redline.

Scott
ADK
Old 12th January 2011
  #120
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Neenja's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
there is working (i got windows installed)
and there is working @ 100% capability setting turbo correctly ram @ 1600 etc etc.
Like I said, I must have gotten lucky because I'm not a computer genius like some here claim to be.
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