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Windows 7 and Firewire
Old 24th December 2010
  #1
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Windows 7 and Firewire

Hi everyone,

Today I finally got the last piece of gear I needed to start recording, I thought I had done my homework and planned well enough.

During the setup everything went fine up until I hooked up my audio interface (Mackie Blackbird) to my laptop (running windows 7) via firewire. After I did this my laptop would crash with a blue screen everytime it was connected by firewire.

I read up on it and I found many people having similar problems, some of them found that switching to a Legacy driver sorted their problem. So I gave it a try and it seemed to have done the trick, but once I started my software (tracktion 3 for now) everything seemed to be running really slowly and it wouldn't even display my interface as an input/output option, so I switched back to the original driver and I was back with my original problem of the laptop crashing.

If anybody might be able to help me sort out my issue(s) it would be appreciated massively!

Thanks and Merry Xmas!
Old 24th December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
are you using an express card with a texas instruments firewire chip?
Old 24th December 2010
  #3
Here for the gear
 

You'll have to bear with with me since I'm pretty new to recording other than a basic music tech course I did at college.

I don't actually know what that is that you mentioned, but I'm sure if I was using one I would know about it, so know I'm not using one....I think.

Thanks
Old 24th December 2010
  #4
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Jeezo's Avatar
Go on thé contrôle panel , sélect iee1394and chose update driver then chose from 3options legacy drivers
Old 24th December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
it seems you're using the firewire port on your laptop? most firewire interfaces work best with firewire ports using a TI based chipset.

in your case, an expresscard with a TI chip might help. search around the GS site and I'm sure you'll run across fw cards that will work for you. I don't use a PC laptop so I don't know of any off hand.

I'd google 'laptop firewire card gearslutz' and start there.
Old 24th December 2010
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Go on thé contrôle panel , sélect iee1394and chose update driver then chose from 3options legacy drivers
I already tried this as a few others already suggested it to me, I didn't have any luck with it today but I'll probably try again sometime hopefully with more success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklion View Post
it seems you're using the firewire port on your laptop? most firewire interfaces work best with firewire ports using a TI based chipset.

in your case, an expresscard with a TI chip might help. search around the GS site and I'm sure you'll run across fw cards that will work for you. I don't use a PC laptop so I don't know of any off hand.

I'd google 'laptop firewire card gearslutz' and start there.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely look into it.

Can you think of any reasons why my laptop might be having trouble with firewire?
Old 24th December 2010
  #7
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iamkimosabi's Avatar
Try a SIIG express card firewire port, with TI chipset.

Hopefully it works out for ya. Good luck.
Old 24th December 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleC View Post
Can you think of any reasons why my laptop might be having trouble with firewire?
Yes, because your FireWire port isn't using a TI chipset.
Old 25th December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleC View Post
I already tried this as a few others already suggested it to me, I didn't have any luck with it today but I'll probably try again sometime hopefully with more success.



Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely look into it.

Can you think of any reasons why my laptop might be having trouble with firewire?
From experience, getting the right fw card seems to do the trick most of the time. This is the first thing you'd be asked if you contacted customer support.
Old 25th December 2010
  #10
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Jeezo's Avatar
TI chipset isn't all !! i'm experiencing it right now with a belkin card that used to work on my previous laptop and don't want rigth now on my new i5 laptop (the card works , the duende not !)

The mst crazy is that the express card are more problematic than old pcmcia !!

while the xpresscard is faster and directly linked to the north bridge and so this is a serial bus sor basically each device have it's own bus access while pcmcia is linked to the south bridge and each device linked share the bus with the otha parallel devices ...on the paper pcmcia suks , in real life it just work the otha no !!

so be carefull ...also i will suggest trying anotha card (RME or some) and see , if it works ....then you know ..
Old 25th December 2010
  #11
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cyrano's Avatar
 

Try removing the Firewire card from the network interfaces list.
Old 4th January 2011
  #12
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Hi everyone,

I have an update for you all:

After messing about trying to get my gear to work as it should, I have managed to start recording (not as smoothly/reliably as I'd like, but I can record none the less). For the record everything I describe in this post has all taken place whilst using the Legacy driver as the original driver would not cooperate AT ALL (persistent crashing/shutting down of laptop).

I started recording in Tracktion 3 and everything seemed okay until I started to get seemingly random dropouts and the software would come up with the message "The audio playout device has unexpectedly stopped". If I went in to the software settings and restarted the audio device I would then be able to record again until the dropout occurred again.

I wasn't expecting the issue to be related to the software, but I thought I'd try my luck with Reaper. So I was getting signal no problem, I set my levels and began to record. Everything was going fine, no pops or cracks but unfortunately the dropouts persisted in Reaper too, however there was a difference from the dropouts I was experiencing in Tracktion. After the audio/firewire dropped out in Reaper it would come back to normal after a couple of seconds without me having to touch anything but after a certain amount of time the dropout would happen again.

Does this information help determine the issue any better?

Also if anybody has ANY suggestions to make the dropouts stop I would love to hear them.

Thanks in advance.
Old 4th January 2011
  #13
Disable all network chips in device manager. Both ethernet and wireless.
Antivirus?
Old 4th January 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
Unfortunately practically all new consumer PC laptops have the jMicron Media card chipset controller coupled with crappy drivers which overide the FW cards chipset. In some extremely rare cases it gets bypassed allowing the TI chipset on the card to control things, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack on which few commercial PC laptops work that way as most of them dont. Then there's the issue of DPC latencey problems on most new commercial PC laptops. It's not a good time for PC Laptops and DAW currently unless you have one built from a DAW company or just get a Mac Pro and run bootcamp and XP or Win 7. I recently tried to help a friend purchase a new i5 based laptop and we went through about 6 before giving up.
Old 4th January 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Disable all network chips in device manager. Both ethernet and wireless.
Antivirus?
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely give that a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Unfortunately practically all new consumer PC laptops have the jMicron card chipset controller coupled with crappy drivers which overide the FW cards chipset. In some extremely rare cases it gets bypassed allowing the TI chipset on the card to control things, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack on which few commercial PC laptops work that way as most of them dont. Then there's the issue of DPC latencey problems on most new commercial PC laptops. It's not a good time for PC Laptops and DAW currently unless you have one built from a DAW company or just get a Mac Pro and run bootcamp and XP or Win 7. I recently tried to help a friend purchase a new i5 based laptop and we went through about 6 before giving up.
Thanks for the info. So you're saying that potentially there may be nothing I can do to get my current set-up to work with this laptop?
Old 5th January 2011
  #16
Gear Addict
 
fzit0's Avatar
 

Don't tell me that
I'm about to buy a new desktop with windows 7
Old 5th January 2011
  #17
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crypticglobe's Avatar
I haven't found a single laptop yet that wouldn't work properly with the correct firewire express card expansion card. Indeed be sure to get one with a TI chipset. You may have to search and ask a lot of questions. However, once you have found it... you should be in excellent shape..... assuming you have done some basic Windows 7 tweaks, and you are using a software program (like Cubase/Nuendo) that are capable of shutting off C-state's. Definitely anti-virus and a ton of bloatware running in the tray can kill performance too.

You see laptop designers have totally screwed us (Mac included) by putting truly horrid chipsets in for firewire controllers, and excluded control over C-states in the bios! Cubase/Nuendo is ahead of the game because they found a way to turn those states off via a setting in the audio section... but indeed... your problem is not with the fireface... but rather that everyone wants a cheap laptop that runs like one that costs twice as much. :|

JMTC of course...
Old 5th January 2011
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzit0 View Post
Don't tell me that
I'm about to buy a new desktop with windows 7
PC Desktops are a different story and are fine with FW as long as the built in FW chipset is ok, or if you use a proper FW PCI-E card.
Old 5th January 2011
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
I haven't found a single laptop yet that wouldn't work properly with the correct firewire express card expansion card.
Your lucky. How old are these laptops? We went through 6 curent major brands with a SIIG TI based express card with no luck at all. They all had the dreaded jMicron media slot chipset that overided the TI card chipset.
Quote:
Indeed be sure to get one with a TI chipset.
Unless you can point to a single current consumer PC laptop that does my research tell me they don't exist anymore onboard. In fact your lucky to find any PC consumer laptop that has FW at all, and if they do the only ones I could find sport a Ricoh FW chipset.
Old 5th January 2011
  #20
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Your lucky. How old are these laptops? We went through 6 curent major brands with a SIIG TI based express card with no luck at all. They all had the dreaded jMicron media slot chipset that overided the TI card chipset. Unless you can point to a single current consumer PC laptop that does my research tell me they don't exist anymore onboard. In fact your lucky to find any PC consumer laptop that has FW at all, and if they do the only ones I could find sport a Ricoh FW chipset.
You say that you couldn't find an express card to work with the jMicron as it overrided the TI card chipset, but does the Ricoh have the same issue of overriding the TI card?

Thanks
Old 5th January 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 

its not that simple... just adding a TI firewire express card generally does not fix the issue.
it may allow you to work @ 512 buffer @ best.

as steve mentioned there is much wrong with most off the shelf laptops
most of these issues stem from power management both in windows (or OSX) and in the bios. bios wise is Cstates and other power mangement.

only reason our laptops work is custom bios.


scott
ADK
Old 7th January 2011
  #22
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Your lucky. How old are these laptops? We went through 6 curent major brands with a SIIG TI based express card with no luck at all. They all had the dreaded jMicron media slot chipset that overided the TI card chipset. Unless you can point to a single current consumer PC laptop that does my research tell me they don't exist anymore onboard. In fact your lucky to find any PC consumer laptop that has FW at all, and if they do the only ones I could find sport a Ricoh FW chipset.
What DAW software are you using? Did you get that Caveat?
Old 7th January 2011
  #23
RTR
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RTR's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzit0 View Post
Don't tell me that
I'm about to buy a new desktop with windows 7
Dont worry, desk tops are not the same, I build all of my desk tops from scratchand never have a problem, I actually went out and bought a used old ass firewire card ofr my pci slot, it is not a TI chip card and I ahve never had a problem with it on any digi or other interfaces!!!
Old 7th January 2011
  #24
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Have you reset the firewire to 400 or 800? By default the OS comes with FW set to 100, and at least with XP every time you install a service pack it resets the FW to 100.

RME has information about this on their site, I do not know how up to date it might be.

Others have recommended a fix here: Windows 7 and Firewire problem
Old 7th January 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Have you reset the firewire to 400 or 800? By default the OS comes with FW set to 100, and at least with XP every time you install a service pack it resets the FW to 100.

RME has information about this on their site, I do not know how up to date it might be.

Others have recommended a fix here: Windows 7 and Firewire problem
I haven't reset the firewire and don't know how to, could you tell me how?

Other than switching to the legacy driver (as described in the link you provided) I haven't changed anything, although I have tried things such as disabling wireless and ethernet without success.

Thanks
Old 11th January 2011
  #26
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BushmasterM4's Avatar
 

Since you have recorded breifly with no problems, it may be that something is kicking in (software,process, etc) that is triggering the issue. As mentioned above NIC cards should be disabled along with Virus Proctection and Firewall. You need to run the bare minimum processes. The 'Black Viper " guides are great for streamling processes and getting the most out of your pc/laptop. Here is a link

Super Tweaks for Windows 7 by Black Viper

What latency/buffer setting are you using with the Mackie ? If you mentioned it earlier I apologize. Try 12ms or higher and see if the problem goes away. Also degrag your hard drive. Ive been using Mackie gear (Onyx 1640 and now the 1640i) and Tracktion for all most 4 years. My first pc was an old 850 htz AMD Anthlon with 1 gig of memory and a 120gig drive and it could handle anything I threw at it once I tweaked it. A few other background processes that Adobe Acrobat installs and Camera software can slow things to a craw too. Streamline your OS !!!
Old 12th January 2011
  #27
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushmasterM4 View Post
Since you have recorded breifly with no problems, it may be that something is kicking in (software,process, etc) that is triggering the issue. As mentioned above NIC cards should be disabled along with Virus Proctection and Firewall. You need to run the bare minimum processes. The 'Black Viper " guides are great for streamling processes and getting the most out of your pc/laptop. Here is a link

Super Tweaks for Windows 7 by Black Viper

What latency/buffer setting are you using with the Mackie ? If you mentioned it earlier I apologize. Try 12ms or higher and see if the problem goes away. Also degrag your hard drive. Ive been using Mackie gear (Onyx 1640 and now the 1640i) and Tracktion for all most 4 years. My first pc was an old 850 htz AMD Anthlon with 1 gig of memory and a 120gig drive and it could handle anything I threw at it once I tweaked it. A few other background processes that Adobe Acrobat installs and Camera software can slow things to a craw too. Streamline your OS !!!
Thank for your reply. I have tried to streamline my laptop as much as I know how. I have tried disabling all NICs aswell as disabling things such as USB ports which are on the same IRQ as the firewire. I also disabled all services (except Microsoft services) in msconfig, including McAfee. None of that did the trick.

As for latency, I have tried playing around with that too. For most of the time I've had it at 12ms but I had increased it way up to like 40 and it didn't help the situation.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
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